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[MADRASA] Which madhab do you follow ?, Evolution of Fiqh
tq
07/13/01 at 00:48:11
Assalamo elikuim I have a question -  I would really appreciate if you all could answer Which madhab do you follow ? and why that one? (I know the importance of following a madhab -I just want to know why/how you selected the one that you are following ) Jazak allah khair :) Wasalam tq

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Moe
11/17/00 at 14:32:00
i am not sure what you mean but i a follow sunnie because my parents follow it

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
11/17/00 at 14:49:09
Assalamoalykum, I don't follow a madhab. Who said that its important to follow one!?!!? I follow the Qur'an and Sunnah. That't it. The way I pray, I know that its ok to pray this way, I couldn't tell you which of the four imams prayed that way. And frankly I don't care to know. Moe, which school of thought do you follow, not the sect you belong to. Do you consider yourself shafi, malik, etc. wassalam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
proudtobemuslim
11/18/00 at 01:52:12
Assalam-u-Alaikum, The maddhabs of the four imams were made to combat the lies and bid'ahs that the Jews were spreading among the Muslims.  Also worth mentioning is that all the Imams came at different time periods, so certainly were not competing with each other.  Also some of the Imams may not have gotten certain Ahadeeth regarding a certain issue, and therefore made their fatwas based on what they already had.  Please do read the following introduction to Sheikh Al-Albani's book , "The Prophet's (SAW) Prayer".  I think you will find it very helpful Insha-Allah. http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html Wassalam-u-Alaikum Uzer

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Arsalan
11/18/00 at 01:56:01
Assalamu alaikum, Another book along the same lines as what proud is talking about: Evolution of Fiqh (i forgot the author's name) Yet another good book, with a slightly different twist to the topic: Ethics of Disagreement in Islam (again, don't remember the author's name)

Re: Which madhab do you ?
jannah
11/18/00 at 02:01:55
Evolution of Fiqh is by Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips. btw I'd recommend *any* book written by him. Ethics of Disagreement is by Taha Jabir Al-alwani

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
11/18/00 at 02:10:13
slm Arsalan, I believe Evolution of Fiqh is by Bilal Phillips and Sheikh Taha wrote Ethics of Disagreement. Dr. Siddiqi (President of ISNA) said: The differences between the Hanafi, Shafi'I, Maliki and Hanbali schools are basically in the matters of practice, not beliefs. They do not differ from each other in doctrines ('aqidah) but they do have various interpretations of the practical and legal aspects of Islam (Shari'ah). There were many scholars and jurists in the early history of Islam. Among them four, Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Shafi'I, Imam Malik and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal -may Allah have mercy upon all of them- became most well known and were recognized for their knowledge and piety. They had their students who explained to others the methodology of their teachers and slowly their interpretations were followed throughout the Muslim world. No one is really required in Islam to follow these scholars, but we must take benefit of the knowledge that they have left for us. It helps to take one teacher and follow his explanations. However, if we find that a particular opinion of one Imam is closer to the Sunnah than the opinion of the other Imam, then we should follow the opinion that is closer to the Sunnah. All these Imams emphasized that Muslims are obliged to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah and if they find any of their opinions against the Qur'an and Sunnah then they must not follow that opinion. Imam Shafi'I used to say, "Whatever an authentic Hadith says, that is my opinion." Similar statements were also made by other Imams. We should respect all these four Imams and other great scholars of Islam. Muslims should not quarrel with each other on the minor differences that exist among various schools of jurisprudence. He also explained some more here about the origins. As long as the Prophet -peace be upon him- was with the Ummah, he was the Imam. Muslims followed the Qur'an and the explanations of the Prophet -peace be upon him. Whenever they needed any explanation they went to the Prophet and he either waited for the divine revelation in order to answer them, or gave them his own answers according to the authority that Allah gave him. We, however, know that the Prophet -peace be upon him- also allowed sometimes the variety of opinions among his Sahabah in certain matters. After the Prophet's departure from this earth, his Rightly Guided Caliphs (al-Khulafa' al-Rashidun) were the leaders of the Ummah. Unlike the Prophet, they were not the recipients of Divine revelation (wahy), but they had the full authority to interpret the Shari'ah in their time. Their knowledge, piety and religious authority made the people to go back to them for any final decision. The Caliphs used to consult many Sahabah, but then whatever decision they would make, theirs was the final word. In other words, we can say that there was only one Madh'hab during the time of al-Khulafa' al-Rashidun. They kept the unity and uniformity of the Ummah. We know that when Muslims differed on the readings of the Qur'an, the Caliph Uthman -may Allah be pleased with him- sent his authorized copy to all provinces and removed all other copies of the Qur'an from circulation and burned them. Thus he was able to keep the unity of the Ummah. However, with the emergence of the Umayyad rule, the situation changed. The Umayyad caliphs did not have the same religious authority as the previous Khulafa'. Some of them deviated from the true path of Islam. Many Jurists and scholars used to avoid them and they began their teachings independently in their own locations. The great Sahabah and their followers (tabi'un) went to different areas and taught and preached to their local people. There was no central authority that could unite all the opinions at that time. The Islamic State was expanding. This set a trend for the development of various schools of interpretations under various able scholars and jurists. The Hadith was also not fully collected. So there were two main trends among the early jurists: those who relied on Hadith only, while there were others who frequently used Qiyas and Ra'y. This situation continues throughout the Umayyad period. After the Umayyad (661-750 CE) came the Abbasids. They were also not the ideal caliphs like al- Khulafa' al-Rashidun, but in comparison to the Umayyads, they were more supportive of Islamic law and its scholars. During their time various scholars were encouraged to write books on Islamic laws. They also patronized the collection of early Fatwas. The Caliphs encouraged religious discussions and debates. Various scholars had the opportunity to debate their positions with others. Due to more discussions and debates, some people changed their opinions. Some schools were eliminated and others merged into major schools. Thus four major schools of Fiqh came about. The crystallization of four major Madhahib of Islamic Fiqh came about by the 3rd century of Hijrah or the 9th century of the common era, before this there were about twenty different Madhahib. Once the Madhahib became established in different areas, the local teacher used them to teach the Shari'ah to their students. The local courts applied the decisions and Fatwas of their local jurists. Thus in a natural way the Madhahib spread in different areas. Although we do not have uniformity among Muslims at this time, we should still try to unite them with tolerance and broadmindedness. We should unite them as much as possible. I am pleased to see that the fanatical loyalty to a particular Madh'hab among Muslims is decreasing, alhamdulillah. Now Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali and even Ja'fari pray together and work together. We read each other's books and attend the Islamic conferences together. In America this is happening much more than in any other place. I hope this trend will continue and our unity as well as the unity of the whole Ummah will increase, by the grace and mercy of Allah. Ameen.
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
11/18/00 at 02:12:22
slm While I was posting my information so was jannah, and she mentioned the authros as well. Duroo Duroo Duroo Duroo, twilight zone.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Kashif
11/18/00 at 04:03:53
assalaamu alaikum To tell you the truth, when im asked this, i always think "i haven't studied the books of any of the madhaahib - so i'm without madhhab." But this has an extremely negative reaction with the pakistani elders round here (those who know something about Islam anyway), so i just say that if i follow any madhhab its the Hanbali, because that is the madhhab of the vast majrity of speakers/scholars that i listen to & learn from. BTW. I was under the impression that it WAS important to have a madhhab? Perhaps Abu Khaled can shed some light? Kashif Wa Salaam
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
11/18/00 at 09:48:16
slm Here is Ibn al-Qayyiam al Jawziyya's view: Allamah Ibn ul-Qayyim says in Alaamul-Muwaqqieen(4/261), "Does the comon person have to follow one of the well known madhabs or not? There are two sayings regarding this: That is not obligatory upon him and this is what is corerct and definite since there is nothing obligatory except what Allaah,the Most high,and His Messenger(saw) have made obligatory and neither Allaah nor his Messenger made it obligatory to follow the madhab of any person from the Ummah and to follow him alone in the Deen. The best generations passed by without anyone doing this. Indeed the common person can not have a madhab ,even if he thinks that he does,since the common person has no madhab at all because the madhab will be the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhab and knows the ruling and sayings of his Imaam. As for the one who is unable to do any of that but merely says'I am a Shafiee ' or "I am a Hanbaleee' etc then he does not become that just by saying so,just as would be the case if he said " I am a religous scholar' or 'I am a scholar of grammar ' or 'I am a writer' then he does not become that just by saying so. This is further clarified by the fact that the one who says 'I am a Shafiee or a Malikee' or a Hanafee' claiming that he follows that Imaam and his way,this would only be true if he were to follow his way in acquiring knowledge ,unederstanding and extraction of proof. As for this one,with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knowledge and way,then how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?! How can the common person have a madhab and even if it could be imagined,then still it would not be obligatory upon him or anyone else to ever have to follow the madhab of a certain man from the Ummah ,such that he accepts all his sayings and rejects everyone else's sayings.This is a filthy innovation introduced into the Ummah;no scholar of Islaam has ever said this and they are higher in station and better knowing about Allaah than to order the people wth this. Even further from the truth is the saying of those who say that he must stick to the madhab of a single scholar and even further from the truth is the one who says,he must follow one of the four madhabs! O Allaah, how strange
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
11/18/00 at 10:41:44
slm I thought this was another good explanation from a Sheikh Waleed in Texas: Bismillah wal hamdullillah wasalat u salam ala rasul Allah. wa ba'ad It was not known in sahaba's times or the tabiyeen's time that there is someone whose opinion has to be followed and that Allah has to be worshipped only by following one man's opinion. And making this part of our deen by saying that you have to take one person's opinion all the time is an innovation as al-Imam Ibn Qayyim rh and his sheikh Sheikh ul Islam and Ash-Shatabee and Ibn Hazm mentioned. But the companions of the Prophet salAllah alehi wasalam used to have students and followers and these companions became like schools. You could find Ibn Abbas in Makkah, Ibn Masud in Kufa and Ibn Umar in Madinahm, etc. with their respective students. But, none of the students nor teachers asserted that only one person's opinion had to be followed. But, the students learned a methodology of fiqh from their respective students. Later, the students became teachers with their own followers and so on. Fiqh issues at the same time started to become more and more complicated. And through the centuries there were 4 great Imams whom Allah blessed with knowledge and bright students. Hence, their madhabs/opinions/methodologies spread all over the globe. Nevertheless these great Imams never said that their opinion was to be followed all the time. Instead, they always said that whenever an authentic hadith comes to you to leave their opinion. This statement is found in one form or the other from all of the Imams. Later, when Fiqh issues started to become even more complex, and disputes started arising, some scholars studied one madhab's opinions and wrote books on this particular madhab, supporting the Imam's opinions. In this time too, some people started announcing the end of ijtihad and that Muslims were to only make taqleed (blind following). This is because they believed that there was no mujtahid (one who makes judgements in new issues based on daleel) left. And also during this time ta'asab (holding on aggressively to an idea or opinion) to the madahib reached such a level that Damascus and Makkah had 4 jamaahs, 4 azaans, 4 mihrabs and 4 iqaamahs! All of this came from sayings that one had follow only one madhab exclusively overlooking the fact that the Imams themselves were not infallible from making mistakes in their opinions. This introduction leads us to: 1)Ta'asab for one madhab and believing in taking one person's opinion and thinking that it is correct all the time is forbidden. 2)Studying one of these madahibs to guide the students of knowledge to understand fiqh is a way of learning. And all the scholars go through this route. However, there is no ta'asab and we worship Allah only by what has evidence. And the student of knowledge, when he studies one madhab, he is following his sheikh or imam but accepting the imam/sheikh's opinion with daleed (evidence) and we call this form of following: Itiba' (reasoned following) as opposed to the 'aami (the layman) who does not need to be told the evidences. 3)Concerning the person who is not a student of knowledge, if he has a question, he should refer his questions to the scholar or student of knowledge. And whatever is said to this person, he should follow it as Allah has said in the Quran, meaning of which is: "Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know". And he should not ask many people concerning the same question unless he has a doubt about the answer given to him from the first person, not following his desire or searching for the easiest opinion but he should ask the person who he feels has the most knowledge and taqwa (fear and consciousness of Allah). 4)The scholar bil-ijma (by consensus) is not allowed to be a muqallid (blind follower). wa salAllah alehi wasalam Abu Abdur-Rahman
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Arsalan
11/18/00 at 13:17:40
Assalamu alaikum, Subhan Allah!  Arshad, man, where do you get these articles from on the web?  And how do you find them so easily? And I didn't know that Shaikh Waleed Bassiyouni was nationally renown!

Re: Which madhab do you ?
jawadio
11/18/00 at 14:20:53
What madhhab do I follow? (for those of you who know a bit of Arabic) Shafi or mafi :) bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahh Wa salam, Jawad.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
11/18/00 at 14:50:32
Shiekh Waleed came to the TTC program at the request of the teachers and gave a lecture on the same thing. He is good. He explained about Hadith methodology too. He is a professor for the American Open University. wassalam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
11/18/00 at 19:29:47
slm Arsalan, for some things I have responses ready to go.  I was in a extremely lengthy discussion with someone else about madhabs back in August, so these are just some of the points from that discussion.  Sheikh Waleed's post I came across just recently.  Arsalan, since you have read the Prophet's Prayer, there is also a good excerpt in there about what the 4 imams said, I didn't post that here.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
akhan
11/20/00 at 14:18:13
Asalaamalaikum, For those interested, here is more info the Madhabs: deleted passages.... "It hardly needs remarking that although the Four Imams, Abu Hanifa, Malik ibn Anas, al-Shafi'i and Ibn Hanbal, are regarded as the founders      of these four great traditions, which, if we were asked to define them, we might sum up as sophisticated techniques for avoiding innovation,      their traditions were fully systematised only by later generations of scholars. The Sunni ulama rapidly recognised the brilliance of the Four      Imams, and after the late third century of Islam we find that hardly any scholars adhered to any other approach. The great hadith specialists,      including al-Bukhari and Muslim, were all loyal adherents of one or another of the madhhabs, particularly that of Imam al-Shafi'i. But within      each madhhab, leading scholars continued to improve and refine the roots and branches of their school. In some cases, historical conditions      made this not only possible, but necessary. For instance, scholars of the school of Imam Abu Hanifah, which was built on the foundations of      the early legal schools of Kufa and Basra, were wary of some hadiths in circulation in Iraq because of the prevalence of forgery engendered by      the strong sectarian influences there. Later, however, once the canonical collections of Bukhari, Muslim and others became available,      subsequent generations of Hanafi scholars took the entire corpus of hadiths into account in formulating and revising their madhhab. This type      of process continued for two centuries, until the Schools reached a condition of maturity in the fourth and fifth centuries of the Hijra.        It was at that time, too, that the attitude of toleration and good opinion between the Schools became universally accepted. This was      formulated by Imam al-Ghazali, himself the author of four textbooks of Shafi'i fiqh, and also of Al-Mustasfa, widely acclaimed as the most      advanced and careful of all works on usul usul al-fiqh fil madhhab (Ihya Ulum al-Din, III, 65) While it was necessary for the Muslim to follow a      recognised madhhab in order to avert the lethal danger of misinterpreting the sources, he must never fall into the trap of considering his own      school categorically superior to the others. With a few insignificant exceptions, the great scholars of Sunni Islam have followed the ethos      outlined by Imam al-Ghazali, and have been conspicuously respectful of each others madhhab. Anyone who has studied under traditional      ulama will be well-aware of this fact.        The evolution of the Four Schools did not stifle, as some Orientalists have suggested, the capacity for the refinement or extension of positive      law. On the contrary, sophisticated mechanisms were available which not only permitted qualified individuals to derive the Shariah from the      Quran and Sunnah on their own authority, but actually obliged them to do this. According to most scholars, an expert who has fully mastered      the sources and fulfilled a variety of necessary scholarly conditions is not permitted to follow the prevalent rulings of his School, but must      derive the rulings himself from the revealed sources. Such an individual is known as a mujtahid, a term derived from the famous hadith of      Muadh ibn Jabal.        Few would seriously deny that for a Muslim to venture beyond established expert opinion and have recourse directly to the Quran and      Sunnah, he must be a scholar of great eminence. The danger of less-qualified individuals misunderstanding the sources and hence damaging      the Shariah is a very real one, as was shown by the discord and strife which afflicted some early Muslims, and even some of the Companions      themselves, in the period which preceded the establishment of the Orthodox Schools. Prior to Islam, entire religions had been subverted by      inadequate scriptural scholarship, and it was vital that Islam should be secured from a comparable fate.        In order to protect the Shariah from the danger of innovation and distortion, the great scholars of usul laid down rigorous conditions which      must be fulfilled by anyone wishing to claim the right of ijtihad for himself. These conditions include:             (a) mastery of the Arabic language, to minimise the possibility of misinterpreting Revelation on purely linguistic grounds;             (b) a profound knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and the circumstances surrounding the revelation of each verse and hadith,           together with a full knowledge of the Quranic and hadith commentaries, and a control of all the interpretative techniques           discussed above;             (c) knowledge of the specialised disciplines of hadith, such as the assessment of narrators and of the matn [text];             (d) knowledge of the views of the Companions, Followers and the great imams, and of the positions and reasoning expounded in           the textbooks of fiqh, combined with the knowledge of cases where a consensus (ijma) has been reached;             (e) knowledge of the science of juridical analogy (qiyas), its types and conditions;             (f) knowledge of ones own society and of public interest (maslahah);             (g) knowing the general objectives (maqasid) of the Shariah;             (h) a high degree of intelligence and personal piety, combined with the Islamic virtues of compassion, courtesy, and modesty.      A scholar who has fulfilled these conditions can be considered a mujtahid fil-shar, and is not obliged, or even permitted, to follow an existing      authoritative madhhab. This is what some of the Imams were saying when they forbade their great disciples from imitating them uncritically.      But for the much greater number of scholars whose expertise has not reached such dizzying heights, it may be possible to become a mujtahid      fil-madhhab, that is, a scholar who remains broadly convinced of the doctrines of his school, but is qualified to differ from received opinion      within it. There have been a number of examples of such men, for instance Imam al-Nawawi among the Shafi'is, Qadi Ibn Abd al-Barr among      the Malikis, Ibn Abidin among the Hanafis, and Ibn Qudama among the Hanbalis. All of these scholars considered themselves followers of the      fundamental interpretative principles of their own madhhabs, but are on record as having exercised their own gifts of scholarship and      judgement in reaching many new verdicts within them. It is to these experts that the Mujtahid Imams directed their advice concerning ijtihad,      such as Imam al-Shafi'i's instruction that if you find a hadith that contradicts my verdict, then follow the hadith. It is obvious that whatever      some writers nowadays like to believe, such counsels were never intended for use by the Islamically-uneducated masses.        Other categories of mujtahids are listed by the usul scholars; but the distinctions between them are subtle and not relevant to our theme. The      remaining categories can in practice be reduced to two: the muttabi (follower), who follows his madhhab while being aware of the Quranic and      hadith texts and the reasoning, underlying its positions, and secondly the muqallid (emulator), who simply conforms to the madhhab because of      his confidence in its scholars, and without necessarily knowing the detailed reasoning behind all its thousands of rulings.        Clearly it is recommended for the muqallid to learn as much as he or she is able of the formal proofs of the madhhab. But it is equally clear that      not every Muslim can be a scholar. Scholarship takes a lot of time, and for the ummah to function properly most people must have other      employment: as accountants, soldiers, butchers, and so forth. As such, they cannot reasonably be expected to become great ulama as well,      even if we suppose that all of them have the requisite intelligence. The Holy Quran itself states that less well-informed believers should have      recourse to qualified experts: So ask the people of remembrance, if you do not know (16:43). (According to the tafsir experts, the people of      remembrance are the ulama.) And in another verse, the Muslims are enjoined to create and maintain a group of specialists who provide      authoritative guidance for non-specialists: A band from each community should stay behind to gain instruction in religion and to warn the people when they      return to them, so that they may take heed (9:122). Given the depth of scholarship needed to understand the revealed texts accurately, and the      extreme warnings we have been given against distorting the Revelation, it is obvious that ordinary Muslims are duty bound to follow expert      opinion, rather than rely on their own reasoning and limited knowledge. This obvious duty was well-known to the early Muslims: the Caliph      Umar (r.a.) followed certain rulings of Abu Bakr (r.a.), saying I would be ashamed before God to differ from the view of Abu Bakr. And Ibn      Masud (r.a.), in turn, despite being a mujtahid in the fullest sense, used in certain issues to follow Umar (r.a.). According to al-Shabi: Six of the      Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) used to give fatwas to the people: Ibn Masud, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali, Zayd ibn Thabit, Ubayy ibn Kab,      and Abu Musa (al-Ashari). And out of these, three would abandon their own judgements in favour of the judgements of three others: Abdallah      (ibn Masud) would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Umar, Abu Musa would abandon his own judgement for the judgement      of Ali, and Zayd would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Ubayy ibn Kab."   deleted passages................

Re: Which madhab do you ?
assing
11/21/00 at 10:38:32
"The great hadith specialists, including al-Bukhari and Muslim, were all loyal adherents of one or another of the madhhabs, particularly that of Imam al-Shafi'i."              Where do some people come with this stuff from? As imam Ahmad describes in the introduction of his book "Ar rad ala Al jahmeeyah" {The refutation against the jahmeeyah} "They differ about the book {the quran}, they contradict the book, and they are united upon being divided about the book, they speak about Allah and His book without knowledge, they use ambiguous speech and they fool the ignorant ones by which they confuse them with, and we seek refuge in Allah from the fitnah of those who go astray"    As a matter of fact someone asked ibn Taymiyyah did Al Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, At Tirmidhee, An Nas'i, ibn Majah, Al Bayhaqi and Ad Daraqutani, used to follow any madhab or were they mujtahidoon?  He answered by saying "as for Al Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, when it came to fiqh they were from the people of itjihad, and At Tirmidhee, An Nas'i, ibn Majah, they were upon the madhab of ahl ul hadeeth {people of hadeeth}, they did not follow any particular imam, but at the same time they were not full-fledged mujtahids {like Al Bukhari and Muslim}, nor did they incline towards the statements of the imams of hadeeth like imam As Shafiee, imam Ahmad, Ishaq ibn Rahaway and those like them. However, there are those like Abu Dawud who leaned toward the madhab of imam Ahmad, and Al Bayhaqi who was a Shafiee. And they all used to highly respect the sunnah and hadeeth." [majmoo al-fatawa. vol. 20. pg. 40]
NS

Qur’an and sunnah
Anonymous
11/22/00 at 02:00:51
The slogans we hear today about “following the Qur’an and                 sunnah instead of following the madhhabs” are wide of the mark, for                 everyone agrees that we must follow the Qur’an and the sunnah of the Prophet                 (Allah bless him and give him peace). The point is that the Prophet                 (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally                 teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the                 Qur’an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars. So it is not a                 question of whether or not to take our deen from scholars, but rather, from                 which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam:                 because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid                 Imams—together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of                 their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them—have met the                 test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and                 practising Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness. The                 reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future,                 is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to                 Muslims’ questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to                 follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a                 comprehensive knowledge of the Qur’an and hadith texts relating to each issue                 he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to                 the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions,                 when taqwa or “Godfearingness” was the norm—both of which conditions are                 in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.                 While the call for a return to the Qur’an and sunnah is an attractive                 slogan, in reality it is a great leap backward, a call to abandon                 centuries of detailed, case-by-case Islamic scholarship in finding and                 spelling out the commands of the Qur’an and sunnah, a highly sophisticated,                 interdisciplinary effort by mujtahids, hadith specialists, Qur’anic                 exegetes, lexicographers, and other masters of the Islamic legal sciences.                 To abandon the fruits of this research, the Islamic shari’ah, for the                 following of contemporary sheikhs who, despite the claims, are not at                 the level of their predecessors, is a replacement of something tried and                 proven for something at best tentative.

Importance of following a madhab!
Anonymous
11/22/00 at 02:01:41
Assalaamuailaikum! Brothers and Sisters.                 I have done some deep thinking and                 research articles on the issue itself....I found found some good                 resources outthere....                 Shk. Hamza Yusuf has a brillant audio tape called, "Following a                 Mahdhab"....                 somewhere on the net.....                 also if you search under google.com under the topics of "UNDERSTANDING                 THE FOUR MADHHABS" aka the problem with anti-madhhabism.....

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
11/22/00 at 13:54:37
Assalamoalykum, The great predecessors, when saying that they were of a certain madhab, weren't fanatical about it as people are today. They didn't go around saying my madhab is better than yours so you should follow that which I like. The four great imams didn't allow themselves to be divided by their methodology as the people after them did. Some people take it so far that they don't like to pray after the imam who isn't from their madhab. The imams didn't try to force each other to say that I am right. Sure they might have debated, but that's different. If everyone will follow the Qur'an and Sunnah then we won't be divided by such a large margin. Of course people would still need to refer to the rulings of the imams when they can't find certain things in the Qur'an and Sunnah, but people would be less likely to look at it as a madhab. People need to fill themselves up the knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah, the basics, and once they have done that then they should move on. People don't even know why they are a certain madhab, or why they like that particular ruling? If you don't even know that then what's the point of saying that you are a certain madhab? First people need to know about the basics and then move on to fiqhi stuff. People today follow the madhabs blindly. Just because their parents claimed to be a certain madhab they decided to follow it, hardly even looking into other madhabs to see what differences there are, the core differences. The people after the imams time, even then the people lusted after knowledge, they knew why they liked a certain madhab more than the other. You cant' say the same thing for the average person today. Again, first get your basic knowledge then plunge into the complicated stuff. wassalam
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Learner
11/22/00 at 15:10:40
Assalaamu alaikum I think perhaps Brother Abu Khaled can enlighten us upon this hot issue. Abu Khaled? Wasssalaam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Learner
11/22/00 at 15:35:24
Assalaamu alaikum Here is something interesting. This is a fatwa delivered by Shaykh Murabtal Haaj. For those who do not know, Shaykh Murabtaal Haaj is the Shaykh of Hamza Yusuf. Wassalaam ************************************************** Shaykh Murabtal Haaj’s Fatwa on Following One of the Four Accepted Madhhabs Translated by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Amongst the most important replies that I have given, is my reply concerning the one who has deviated to the point where he censures the importance of studying the branches [furu'] of jurisprudence, and we seek refuge in Allah from the deviation of such a wandering deviant. Would that he simply had claimed independent reasoning (ijtihad) for himself only, and Allah is his reckoner, but abandoned the call of Muslims to leave that which is incumbent upon them. In our reply to such a one, we make mention what the scholars of the methodological bases of Islamic jurisprudence (usuli’un) and the Imams of jurisprudence themselves have said about such a matter. As for my labelling him a deviant, it is only because he has desired to impose upon common people the precious rank of absolute independent reasoning [ijtihad], about which Muhammad an-Nabigha  said,   "And ijtihad in the land of the Moroccans,   The western phoenix has taken to flight with it." I say in reply, that the following of qualified scholarship (taqlid) is an obligation on anyone other than an absolute mujtahid. I shall make mention of all his prerequisites if Allah wills. [Sidi Abdullah Ould Hajj Ibrahim] has said in his Maraqi as-Sa’ud:   “[taqlid] is necessary for other than the one who has achieved the rank of absolute ijtihad. Even if he is a limited [mujtahid] who is unable [to perform absolute ijtihad].”   Commenting on this line, [Sidi Abdullah] said in Nashru al-bunud,   “It means that taqlid is an obligation on anyone who is not an absolute mujtahid, even if he has achieved the limited rank of ijtihad muqayyad . . . [until he says], ‘And ask the people of the reminder, if you yourselves do not know.’”   By using the line of Muhammad an-Nabigha above, I am in no way claiming that all ijtihad has been severed in every land; how [could I say such a thing] when [Sidi Abdullah] says in Maraqi as-sa’ud:   “The earth will never be void of a mujtahid scholar until its very foundations shake.”   He also said,   “[Regarding] the necessity of binding to a specific madhhab, the [scholars] have mentioned its obligation upon anyone falling short [of the conditions of ijtihad].”   He says in Nashru al-bunud,   “It means that it is incumbent for whoever falls short of achieving the rank of absolute ijtihad to follow a particular madhhab.”   Again, in Maraqi as-Sa’ud, Sidi Abdullah says,   “The consensus today is on the four, and all have prohibited following [any] others.”   He says in Nashru al-bunud,   “This means that the consensus of the scholars today is on the four schools of thought, and I mean by the schools of Malik, Abu Hanifa, Shafi’i and Ahmad. Indeed, all of the scholars have prohibited following any other school of an independent and absolute mujtahid since the eighth century when the school of Dawud adh-Dhahiri died out and until the 12th Century and all subsequent ones.”   In the chapter concerning inferential reasoning, from Maraqi as-sa’ud, [Sidi Abdullah] says,   “As for the one who is not a mujtahid, then basing his actions on primary textual evidence [Qur’an and hadith] is not permissible.”   He says in Nashru al-bunud,   “It means that it is prohibited for other than a mujtahid to base his actions upon a direct text from either the Book or the Sunna even if its transmission was sound because of the sheer likelihood of there being other considerations such as abrogation, limitations, specificity to certain situations, and other such matters that none but the mujtahid fully comprehends with precision. Thus, nothing can save him from Allah the Exalted excepted following a mujtahid. Imam al-Qarafi says [1],   ‘And beware of doing what some students do when they reason directly from the hadith, and yet they don’t know their soundness, let alone what has been mentioned [by the Imams] concerning the subtleties involved in them; by doing this, they went astray and led others astray. And whoever interprets a verse or hadith in a manner that deviates from its intended meaning without proof [dalil] is a kafir.’”   As for the conditions of the absolute and independent ijtihad, they are mentioned in the Maraqi as-sa’ud in the following line and what follows:   “And that [word ‘faqih’][2]  is synonymous with the [word] ‘mujtahid’ coupled with those things which bear upon [him] the burden of responsibility,   Such as his being of extreme intelligence by nature, and there is some debate about one who is known to reject juristic analogy [qiyas]   He knows the [juristic] responsibilities through intellectual proofs unless a clear transmitted proof indicates otherwise.   [Sidi Abdullah] says [in his commentary] Nashru al-bunud,   “This means that among the conditions of ijtihad is that [the mujtahid] knows that he must adhere to the intellectual proof which is the foundational condition [al-bara’atu al-asliyya][3]  until a transmitted proof from a sacred law indicates otherwise.”   He then goes on to mention the other conditions of a mujtahid:   [The sciences of] grammar, prosody, philology, combined with those of usul and rhetoric he must master.   According to the people of precision, [he must know] where the judgements can be found without the condition of having memorized the actual texts.   [All of the above must be known] according to a middle ranked mastery at least. He must also know those matters upon which there is consensus.   [Moreover, he must know] things such as the condition of single hadiths and what carries the authority of great numbers of transmissions; also [knowledge of] what is sound and what is weak is necessary.   Furthermore, what has been abrogated and what abrogates, as well as the conditions under which a verse was revealed or a hadith was transmitted is a condition that must be met.   The states of the narrators and the companions [must also be known]. Therefore, you may follow anyone who fulfils these conditions mentioned above according to the soundest opinion.   So, consider all of the above-mentioned, and may Allah have mercy upon you, and [may you] see for yourself whether your companion is characterized by such qualities and fulfils these conditions—and I highly doubt it. More likely, he is just pointing people to himself in his demands that the people of this age take their judgements directly from the Book and Sunna. If, on the other hand, he does not possess the necessary conditions, then further discussion is useless.   In Muhammad ‘Illish’s, Fath al-‘Ali al-Malik, there are many strong rebukes for those who wish to force people to abandon the study of the judicial branches and take directly from the Book and the Sunna. The actual text of the question put to him is as follows:   “What do you say about someone who was following one of the four Imams, may Allah the Exalted be pleased with them, and then left claiming that he could derive his judgements directly form the Qur’an and the soundly transmitted hadiths, thus leaving the books of jurisprudence and inclining towards the view of Ahmad bin Idris? Moreover, he says to the one who clings to the speech of the Imams and their followers, “I say to you ‘Allah and His Messenger say’, and you reply ‘Malik said’ and ‘Ibn al-Qasim said’ or ‘Khalil said.’”   To this, Imam ‘Illish replies:   “My answer to this all this is as follows: Praise be to Allah, and Prayer and Safety be upon our Master Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah. It is not permissible for a common person to abandon following the four Imams and take directly from the textual sources of the Qur’an and the hadiths for the simple reason that this entails a great many conditions that have been clarified in the books of usul. Moreover, these conditions are rarely met by the great scholars, especially in these last days in which Islam has become a stranger just as it began a stranger.”   Ibn ‘Uyyana, may Allah be pleased with him, has said,   “The hadiths are a source of error except for the jurists.”   What he means is that people, other than the scholars, might interpret a tradition based on an apparent meaning, and yet [the hadith may] have another interpretation based on some other hadith that clarifies the meaning or some proof that remains hidden [to the common people]. After a long discussion, he remarks,   “That as for their saying, ‘How can you leave clear Qur’anic verses and sound hadiths and follow the Imams in their ijtihads, which have a clear probability of error,’”   His answer to them is as follows:   “Surely the following of our [rightly guided] Imams is not abandoning the Qur’anic verses or the sound hadiths; it is the very essence of adhering to them and taking our judgements from them. This is because the Qur’an has not come down to us except by means of these very Imams [who are more worthy of following] by virtue of being more knowledgeable than us in [the sciences of] the abrogating and abrogated, the absolute and the conditional, the equivocal and the clarifying, the probabilistic and the plain, the circumstances surrounding revelation and their various meanings, as well as their possible interpretations and various linguistic and philological considerations, [not to mention] the various other ancillary sciences [involved in understanding the Qur’an] needed.   “Also, they took all of that from the students of the companions (tabi’in) who received their instruction from the companions themselves, who received their instructions from the Lawgiver himself, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, divinely protected from every mistake, who bore witness that the first three generations of Muslims would be ones of virtue and righteousness. Furthermore, the prophetic traditions have also reached us through their means given that they were also more knowledgeable than us through their means given that they were also more knowledgeable than those who came after them concerning the rigorously authenticated (sahih), the well authenticated (hasan), and the weak (da’if) channels of transmission, as well as the marfu’u[4], mursal[5], mutawatir[6], ahad[7], mu’dal[8] and gharib[9] transmissions.   “Thus, as far as this little band of men is concerned, there is only one of two possibilities: either they are attributing ignorance to Imams whose knowledge is considered by consensus to have reached human perfection as witnessed in several traditions of the truthful Lawgiver, upon him be prayers and peace, or they are actually attributing misguidance and lack of din to Imams who are all from the best of generations by the testimony of the magnificent Messenger himself, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. Surely, it is not the eyes that are blind, but blind are the hearts in our breasts.   As for their saying to the one who imitates Malik, for example, “We say to you ‘Allah says’ or ‘the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, says’ and you reply, ‘Malik says’, or ‘Ibn al-Qasim says’, or ‘Khalil says’, for example,” our response is that the follower who says, “Malik says . . . etc.,” means that, “Malik says based on his deep understanding of the Word of Allah, or of the words of the Messenger, or of those firmly adhering to the actions of the companions, or of the tabi’in who understood clearly the Word of Allah and the word of the Messenger of Allah or took their example from the actions of His Messenger.” And the meaning of [a follower] saying “Ibn al-Qasim said . . .” is that he has [faithfully] transmitted what Malik said based on his understanding of the Word of Allah or of what Ibn al-Qasim himself understood from the word of Allah the Most Exalted. And the meaning of him saying, “Khalil said . . . .”, for example, is that he is transmitting only from those [Imams] aforementioned. As for Malik and Ibn al-Qasim, they are both Imams whose spiritual and judicial authority is agreed upon by unanimous consensus of this Umma; and they are both from the best of generations.   As for the one who leaves their leadership and says, “Allah said and His Messenger said . . . ,” he has relied solely on his own understanding despite the fact that he is incapable of having any precision in the verses and hadiths that he quotes since he is unable even to provide chains of transmission [with any authority], let alone that he lacks knowledge concerning the abrogated, the absolute and the conditional, the ambiguous and the clarifying, the apparent and the textual, the general and the specific, the dimensions of the Arabic and the cause for revelation, the various linguistic considerations, and other various ancillary sciences needed. So, consider for yourself which is preferable: the word of a follower who simply quotes the understanding of Malik, an Imam by consensus—or the word of this ignoramus who said “Allah said and His Messenger said . . . .” But it is not the sight that goes blind, but rather the hearts in our breasts.   Furthermore, know that the origin of this deviation is from the Dhahiriyya[10] who appeared in Andalucia [Muslim Spain] and whose power waxed from a period until Allah obliterated all traces of them until this little band of men set about to revive their beliefs. Imam al-Barzuli said, “The first one ever to attack the Mudawwana[11] was Sa’id bin al-Haddad .”   If you consider carefully the above-mentioned texts, you will realize that the one who censures you from following [the Imams] is truly a deviant. And I am using the word “deviant” to describe them only because the scholars [before me] have labelled this little band and their view (madhhab) as deviant. Moreover, you should know that those who condemn your adherence to the Imams have been fully refuted by Muhammad al-Khadir bin Mayyaba  with the most piercing of refutations, and he himself called them, in his book, “the people of deviation and heterodoxy.” He called his book, Refuting the people of deviation of heterodoxy who attack the following [taqlid] of the Imams of independent reasoning, and I used to have a copy but no longer do. So, my brother, I seriously warn you from following the madhhab of these people and even from sitting in their company, unless there is an absolute necessity, and certainly from listening to anything they have to say, because the scholars have declared their ideas deviant. Ibn al-Hajj  says in his book, al-Madkhal,   “Umar ibn al-‘Aziz said, ‘Never give one whose heart is deviant access to your two ears, for surely you never know what may find fixity in you.’”   I ask Allah to make you and me from those who listen to matters and follow the best of them.   Murabtal Haaj, Mauritania   [u]Footnotes[/u]   1. Ahmad ibn Idris Shihabudin as-Sanhaji al-Qarafi al-Maliki was born in Egypt in the seventh Century, and died there in the year 684. He was one of the greatest Maliki scholars who ever lived and is especially known for his work in methodology and law (usul al-fiqh). He was a master of the Arabic language and has remarkable works in grammar. His book adh-Dhakhira is a magisterial 14 volume work recently published in the Emirates, that looks at Maliki fiqh with proofs from usuli sources. He is buried in Qarafi in Egypt near Imam as-Shafi’i. May Allah have mercy on them both. 2. Sidi Abdullah says in his commentary on this line that the faqih is synonymous with mujtahid in the science of usul. There are different types of faqih. A faqih according to the scholars of usul is anyone who has achieved the rank of ijtihad. According to the scholars of furu’u, a faqih is anyone who has reached the level of knowledge in which he can give valid juristic opinion. This latter definition is important considering endowments that are given to fuqaha. See Nashur al-bunud `ala maraqi as-sa’ud, kitab al-ijtihad fi al-furu’u (1409 Hijrah. Beirut: Maktabat al-Kutub. p.309)   3. The foundational condition is that a human being is not asked by Allah to do anything other than those things which have a firm proof through the transmission of the prophets, peace be upon them, and that the human being is only accountable for those things in which there is clear responsibility. All other matters are considered permissible because of the lack of a proof indicating their impermissibility. [BACK] 4. The transmission (sanad) goes to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) the hadith came from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace).   5. A tabi’i related it from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace); a companion (sahabah) is missing from the line of the transmission.   6. The hadith comes from so many sources that it is an absolute proof. 7. A hadith, that at some point in the line of transmission, has only one narrator.   8. Two people in a row are missing in the chain of narrators.   9. The narrator of the hadith is trustworthy, but no one else related the hadith. 10. The Dhahiriyya followed Daw’ud ad-Dhahiri’s madhhab.   11. Mudawwana: Imam Malik’s work of fiqh.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Learner
11/22/00 at 16:04:59
Assalaamu alaikum [quote]Where do some people come with this stuff from?.... ....As a matter of fact someone asked ibn Taymiyyah did Al Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, At Tirmidhee, An Nas'i, ibn Majah, Al Bayhaqi and Ad Daraqutani, used to follow any madhab or were they mujtahidoon?. [/quote] Assing, I am no scholar and have absolutely no knowledge at all, but is it not true that shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya were both Hanbali according to the biographical works upon these great illustrious 'ulama?

Re: Which madhab do you ?
assing
11/23/00 at 12:35:46
"but is it not true that shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya were both Hanbali according to the biographical works upon these great illustrious 'ulama?"     Thats absolutely correct, and there is not doubt about that as one would see if he reads their books. However, at the same time they differ with their own madhab if the if it contradicted an authentic proof. This is why in ibn Al Qayyim mentioned in his 4 volume monumental book "i'laam ul-Muwaqqieen an rabbil ala'meen" {The sign of those who give their signatures on behalf of Lord of all the worlds i.e. what should be the characteristic of the mufti, because it is as if he is sign his fatwa on behalf of Allah} that some of the Hanbali scholars criticized ibn Taymiyyah because many of his fatawa would contradict the Hanbali madhab while at the same time it were the Hanbalis who paid him from the waqf {endowment fund}, he replied that he was being paid from the waqf  to teach the people what Allah and His messenger came with and not what the Hanbali madhab says. Hence, you find many of the ulama' were adherants to particular madhab as the case with Muhammad Hasan {Hanafi}, imam Nawawi, ibn Hajar Al Asqalani{shafee} and thousands of others like them, but however, when the authentic proof came they left what their madhab says and followed the haqq {as one can see if one read books like "sharh al muhhazab" by Nawawi which is a book in shafee fiqh, ibn Hajars' explanation of saheeh Al Bukhari and so forth}    Thus, the point i am making should not be misunderstood, it is all well and good if a person says he follows a particular madhab, however, the problem comes in where it has been  shown that this particular opinion of the madhab clearly contradicts an authentic hadeeth or ayat, and that person still insist upon following an incorrect opinion because it is his madhab, and this is what many of the scholars past and present like ibn Taymiyyah, ibn Al Qayyim, ibn Baz Al Albani etc. have been criticizing and not that a person chooses to follow a particular madhab, for this in itself does not say anything. This is why ibn Taymiyyah said in his "majmoo al fatawa" vol.20 pg.164 "It is impermissable for anyone to appoint a position to someone and call to his way, making friendship and enemity based on this person, except the messenger (salallahu alayhi wasalam). As a matter of fact, this is the way of ahl'il bidah who seperate the ummah based on personalities who they appointed and they make enemity and friendship based on that persons' statements {rather than on the haqq}. And also this is the way of the Khawarij, from their misunderstaning of the quran, they considered those who differed with them kuffar, from what they {the khawarij} think was their going against the quran..................to the end of his statements".    Thus, in conclusion i have just two simple questions for those who say we must follow a madhab:1. Which one?             2. and why that particular one?
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
chachi
12/02/00 at 22:01:13
salaam i knew that somebody would bring up this topic so what do we know ? 1) that the prophet promised us that religious knowledge would decrease 2) and that 1 person would be born in every century to revive islam islam is a religion based on practice like judaism and not like christianity which is based on belief. islam is hence a religion based on rule of law. in islam there isn't a 'priesthood' however there is a legal system. every legal system is based on authority to implement the law. in islam the authority to give legal opinion is based on having a 'ijaaza' since the caliphs after hadrat ali no longer had authority by knowledge but had authority by force they had authority only so long as they did certain things such as allowed prayer enforced the shariah and waged jihad . NOW I GET TO THE IMPORTANT BIT a group of bandit relics of the khawareej fanatics in the guise of 'reviving' islam attacked and murdered innocent muslims and fought against the caliph on the side of various kaffirs. since this group of murderers, thugs and thieves had no other religious justification for their actions they decided to do away with the whole idea that islamic scholars must have a ijaaza from their scholars before they can give a fatwa or legal opinion. since the whole of islamic legal precedent is known as a 'madhab' , they decided to attack the madhabs . and they came up with the slogan 'Qu'ran and Sunnah'!  can i ask did imam abu hanifah follow other than the qu'ran and sunnah? or Imam maalik? or imam shaafee?...no but these people who had never been even near islamic scholars stated that they knew more about the hadith and the qu'ran than these scholars by pure genius! they in effect decided to build a house by trying to rediscover everything by first principles...the result has been a disaster i refer anybody who is interested to bin baaz approval of the fatwa given by sheikh abdullah azzam (shaheed) whilst he was fighting the communist kaffirs in afghanistan and then the fatwa that bin baaz gave during the gulf war which was no less than a DIRECT CONTRAVENTION OF THE FATWA OF HADRAT UMAR 'that no yahood or x-tians will be allowed to live in the penninsula' some of bin baaz's friends have now given support to the sex shop run by a yahood thats been opened in mecca  so friends before you start attacking the madhabs just remember that the people who began the attacks on madhabs helped end the khilaafa and helped create the yahoodi entity in palestine

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
12/03/00 at 16:26:44
Assalam ualykum, Chachi what is it that you don't like about bin bazz? It's a sincere question. So far I haven't seen anything written against him that says that he was not a God fearing man. some of bin baaz's friends have now given support to the sex shop run by a yahood thats been opened in mecca It’s only a shop! It doesn’t sell sex toys, only clothes for women.  People  living in Mecca have sex too you know! That's how they procreate. Why are people making such a big deal out of this shop? Yes, a yahoodi shouldn't be running it, no yahoodi or Christian should be in that country, I am not disputing that. You are right on that. But come on chachi, will all due respect, leave the shop out of this. wassalam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
chachi
12/07/00 at 18:19:33
In reply to what you said Saleema you give contradict yourself below "Yes, a yahoodi shouldn't be running it, no yahoodi or Christian should be in that country, I am not disputing that. You are right on that. But come on chachi, will all due respect, leave the shop out of this." you've admitted that the yahood and the x-tians are not allowed in mecca according to the the fatwa given by hadrat omar (ra) but this fatwa goes further it bans them from the whole of the penninsula (1) the yahood were banned because they persistently broke every single treaty they signed with the prophet , but not only that they tried to destroy islam by fabricating hadith which was a direct attack on the faith itself BY WHAT AUTHORITY DID BIN BAAZ GO AGAINST THE FATWA OF THE SAHABI?! who gave him ijaaza?! who is this so called 'salaafi' who has no link to the sahaba and yet violates their fatwa's and claims to be following them?! this seems to me like what paul did to the church, he never even met hadrat isa (pbuh) and yet he claims the authority to break the laws hadrat isa (pbuh) followed (2) this shop chain specialises in sex toys, not in lijgerie. it's the thin end of the wedge. do you know of the hadith where the prophet said one day the women of mecca will dance naked around the kaaba?! what people do in private is upto them and their god. who this shop is run by and what it sells concerns every muslim because the saud family do not own the hijaaz, they have established their claim by force and treachery like many of those before them BUT AT LEAST THOSE BEFORE THEM HAD SUPPORT OF THE SCHOLARS the validity of whose right to give fatwa was unbroken from the sahaabi and people like imam hasan al-basri. and if u remember imam hasan al-basri was only the 2nd person in kufa not to have been fired as a imam of a mosque by hadhrat ali...can you imagine that? the rest were fired not because they were bad people but because to quote hadrat ali all they did was repeat islam like a story! knowing qu'ran and hadith dosn't make you a scholar!                           wasalaam sorry if i sound a bit harsh but please go and read the fatwa bin baaz authenticated in 'defending the muslim lands'

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Arsalan
12/08/00 at 13:33:25
Assalamu alaikum, Chachi, Abdullah bin Baaz (rahimahullah) has already been criticized enough for his fatwa regarding the ahl-al-kitaab in the Arabian peninsula.  But he's a human being, just like the other ulemaa, and thus is prone to make mistakes in ijtihaad.  This is why ijmaa' is more important in Islam than a personal ijtihaad of a scholar, no matter how knowledgeable he may be.   The truth is that Shaikh bin Baaz was one of the most knowledge shuyookh of our time, who has done an immense service to the Ummah by giving countless fatawa (based on the Quraan and Sunnah) on all sorts of topics.   And who are WE to criticize the Learned people of this Deen.  If I were you, I'd leave that to the scholars.  (More on this in the [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=oasis&action=display&num=410]hmmmmmm[/url] thread in the Oasis folder). Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
12/08/00 at 15:17:06
Assalamu alykum, Sure a yahoodi or a Christian shouldn't be running the shop they shouldn't even be there for any other reason. We can't do anything about that so leave the lingerie shop out of it. Whatever they specialize in, they aren't selling that in Saudi, they are just selling lingerie for the women. I agree with everything that Arsalan has said in his post. How do we know that he wasn't forced to do this? He had to do something else too which he didn't want to in his lifetime. This site has some good information on him. [url]http://www.ummah.net.pk/albayan/[/url] wassalam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
shadow493
12/09/00 at 16:11:34
Assalamulaikum The differences of opinions among the scholars (Abu Haneefa, Shaafi, Muslim, Bukhari, Ahmed, Malak, etc) are on principles of practice not believe (I think this was said earlier); however if a person would like to follow a madhaab that is totally fine, becuase all what is in a particular madhaad is a certain scholars understanding of what the Prophet (saw) did.  There are many stories where even the Imaam's of these madhaabs were very very respectful towards each other... a some of them are: 1. Imaam Shaafi visited Kufa (the place where Abu Hanifa taught) after Abu Hanifa's death. When it was time to lead the witr, Imaam Shaafi, instead of doing one rakaa (his opinion of how to perform the witr), he did three raka' just like magrib (the way of Abu Hanifa).  After the prayer his followers asked him, "why did you do this form of witr even when you say it is wrong?" He (Shaafi) replied, "How can I come to a place where a man of whom I have such respect and not do what he taught?" 2. Abu Yousif (one of the students of Imaam Abu Hanifa) was in Medina (where Imaam Malik taught) and he was finding a place of where to do wudu.  He found a well of water and did wudu with that water.  He led the Salaat, but after the prayer the people came to him and said they found a dead rat at the source of this water.  [note: according to Imaam Abu Hanifa's madhaab this water would not be considered tahir (pure water)] Abu Yousif replied, "Today I will follow the opinion of my Medina brothers and this water is pure for me." These are just some of the examples from the scholars themselves.  I personally do not follow a madhaab because there are classes provided for me about the different opinions on fiqh issues.  If a person would like to follow a madhaab because there is no other knowledge for him or just becuase he would like to follow a madhaab this is perfectly fine.  It is not allowed to think that your madhaab is above everything else, and it is very important THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR MADHAAB TEACHES.  Do not think that whatever the culture is in your homeland that follows a particular madhaab is a part of the madhaab.  If anyone wants that to be explained for them I will inshaAllah.  If anyone would like to know about the differnet opinions about the 4 scholars and more (Bukhari, etc) I would reccomend a book by Ibn Rushd, and it can be found at either Barnes and Noble or Amazon's website.  The book is entitled "The Jurists Primer" or something like that.  Please be understanding towards whatever fiqh people follow.  The Prophet (saw) IS our example.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
12/09/00 at 16:47:12
slm A few months back I had thought about getting the Jurist's Primer, the book is a little expensive $87, so I put off getting it till someone told me their opinon of the book (as you did).  Also I think only 1 volume of this 2 volume set is translated, is this true even now?  But definitely it is something I will consider getting now, jazak Allah khairen.
NS

Re: Which madhab do you ?
shadow493
12/09/00 at 16:54:14
Assalamulaikum Ya Arshad! how are you doing? haha i love your website... but i guess thast beyond the point... anyways yeah NOW volume two is translated... and i think barnes and noble has it (both volumes) in paper back and its like 29 bucks each... if u like paperbacks and all... but i have volume one in hardback and its deep... take care =) walaikum assalam adam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
12/10/00 at 11:50:15
slm I'm doing fine alhumdullilah brother Adam, how are you doing?  Your website looks nice alhumdullilah as well. :) The hardcover edition is $170 for both volumes.  Talk about expensive.  I checked Amazon.com and they had it in paper back for $28 each, but they said it hasn't shipped yet. Barnesandnoble.com have it for $35 for the 1st volume and $28 for the 2nd volume and it ships in 1 to 2 weeks they say. Insha'Allah I'll get it, I'll see if I have some online coupons also. :)

Re: Which madhab do you ?
chachi
12/15/00 at 20:56:14
salaam  what do you mean leave the lingerie shop out of it?!  thats like saying leave the thief out of the theft! go back and re-read what i said..the yahood and the x-tians are BANNED according to the fatwa of the sahabi  secondly you state bin baaz was threatened..this would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. most of the people who followed this guys fatwa's ended up shaheed in afghanistan and he sent them to the battlefield  the man is supposed to be a scholar not even a ordinary muslim, if he couldn't take the burden he should have stopped acting as a scholar! and what about all the other muslims who ended up in prisons because they didn't toe the line ? why not just say they had more imaan than him? why didn't he immediately flee and revoke his fatwa?   if you want to see the muslims who gave contrary fatwa's then go to the nida'ul islam page heres a extract about sheikh salman al -awdah The Mujahid Sheikh Salman Al'Awdah Sheikh Salman was born in the village of Al-Basr near the city of Buraida in 1375 A.H. / 1955 A.D to a rich family which was known for its nobility and good name. The Sheikh became known for his intelligence at an early age. After completing his secondary studies, Sheikh Salman enrolled in the Arabic language faculty at the university of Imam Muhammad Bin Saud in Ryad. He studied there for two years before transferring to the Sharia Faculty where he obtained his degree. On receiving his degree, Sheikh Salman returned to Al-Qaseem where he studied at the Academic Institute at Buraida. He then transferred to the Sharia and Usuludin Faculty at the Imam Bin Saud Islamic University - Qaseem Campus, where he worked as a lecturer and continued his university studies. He received his Masters degree with a thesis on "The Estrangeness of Islam". Sheikh Salman is a father of six children. His pupils and friends have known him as a generous man, confident in himself and his treatises, distinguished with his eloquence, good character, and awe. These attributes were translated into a popular reality which went beyond the area where he lived. In the field of Study and Call to Islam Sheikh Salman is a multi talented individual, distinguished in Jurisprudence, Hadith, Tafsir, and Creed. If he was to talk about contemporary issues, you would wish that he would not stop. When he talks, he raises elaborate issues and deep analysis through eloquent speech the equal of which is difficult to find. He is distinguished by his talent as an educator, his daily program would begin after the Fajr prayer, then he would go to his lectures in the University halls where he worked as a lecturer -before his sacking- until midday, he would then rest for a little time, and then take questions over the telephone, he would receive people after Magrib prayer if he did not have any lectures in that evening. He was a frequent traveler as he would not reject an invitation irrespective of its origin. Sheikh Salman presented his masters thesis before the Gulf war on the estrangeness of this religion; in this thesis, he offered a comparison between the predecessors and the contemporaries in a study which was first of its kind and first in its style, depth, and relevance. His book "a quiet dialogue with Sheikh Al-Gazaly" is fit to be an intellectual and practical model for discussing differences with those holding conflicting views. Sheikh Salman boldly confronted the American presence in the Peninsula; he regarded this presence as a catastrophe which befell the Muslim land. After the end of the Gulf war, Sheikh Salman immersed himself in the program of reform with all his powers. He held lectures, workshops, demonstrations and made a call for reform and to fight the spread of corruption. His voice was high, and his star raised in the heavens, the first few years after the Gulf war were full of effort in the quiet revolution of reform which ended with Sheikh Salman and his brother Sheikh Safar Al-Hawaly in prison. However, this revolution set the element of reform which would no longer be satisfied with sitting idly in its own niche. The arrest Sunday 6/4/1415 (11/9/1994) Sheikh Salman was called to the Qaseem principality. He was asked to sign an undertaking that he would not talk, give sermons, or verdicts... etc at any place or time. Sheikh Salman refused to sign this undertaking which interfered in his personal affairs. He offered his point of view to the governor saying: "you have one of three choices, either give the word of Islam its freedom, or permit me to travel to another country, or put me in prison." After this, Sheikh Salman returned to his home with a number of his students. He found a large gathering at the Mosque which was near his house. There were about seven thousand people gathered inside the Mosque and in its courtyard. There was a speech where Sheikh Muhammad Al-Dikhy, Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Bayan, Sheikh Ali Al-Khadir, Sheikh Sulayman Al-Rashudy, and some others said a few words. After this, Sheikh Salman gave a sermon for about one and a half hour where he gave his point of view with respect to the excesses of the regime and its confinement of the word of Islam and those who call to it; he also talked about the state of the economy and some other issues. All this is available on video and audio tapes which people can view or hear. Then on the morning of Tuesday 8/4/1415 (13/9/1994) around 6:00 am, the area containing Sheikh Salman's residence was surrounded by about 1000 security personnel, and the Sheikh was arrested. The obstinacy of the regime from one aspect and their fear from another would not tolerate the presence of free people who confront corruption with Truth as did our Sheikh the Mujahid, may Allah grant him his freedom. The story of Sheikhs Safar and Salman was taken from the book "Al-Mashru' Al-Islahy Fil Saudia, Qissat Al-Hawaly Wal-'Awdah" (The Islamic Reformative Program in Saudi Arabia, the Story of Al-Hawaly and Al-Awdah), By Mahmoud Al-Rifa'i.

Re: Which madhab do you ?
Saleema
12/16/00 at 16:50:43
Assalam ualykum, Chachi, I rest my case. :) wassalam

Re: Which madhab do you ?
bhaloo
12/17/00 at 01:38:33
slm In conclusion, I think brother Arsalan summed up the Sheikh Bin Baaz issue very nicely alhumdullilah and it is worth repeating. In fact this topic is officially closed now, because there will be no more prolonged arguing in here.  One only has to state a view once, just because someone doesn't agree with him, doesn't mean that the person keeps repeating the information over and over again. [quote] Chachi, Abdullah bin Baaz (rahimahullah) has already been criticized enough for his fatwa regarding the ahl-al-kitaab in the Arabian peninsula.  But he's a human being, just like the other ulemaa, and thus is prone to make mistakes in ijtihaad.  This is why ijmaa' is more important in Islam than a personal ijtihaad of a scholar, no matter how knowledgeable he may be.   The truth is that Shaikh bin Baaz was one of the most knowledge shuyookh of our time, who has done an immense service to the Ummah by giving countless fatawa (based on the Quraan and Sunnah) on all sorts of topics.   And who are WE to criticize the Learned people of this Deen.  If I were you, I'd leave that to the scholars.  (More on this in the hmmmmmm thread in the Oasis folder). [/quote]
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