Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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Kathy |
12/05/00 at 20:38:33 |
slm i hate when a non muslim asks me a question and i do not know the answer. It happened today. What do people who live in the lands of perpetual sun do in regard to the length of their daily fasting? |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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nalasra |
12/05/00 at 21:21:04 |
wa'laikum assalaam They fast and pray according to the 'normal' land closest to them. This is not my opinion, I asked a mufti about this anomaly. It makes complete sense though. |
NS |
Santa's Elves, Mir, The Space Shuttle and Siberia |
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SuperHiMY |
12/06/00 at 19:28:20 |
AsalamAlayKum, When I was a little boy, I encountered the same problem. I couldn't answer the basic question of what happens for fasting people in parts of Canada where the Sun stays above the horizon for 6 months of the year, and then the sun stays below the horizon for just as long. Often in gradeschool, as we 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 year olds tried to be cool to one another, we'd debate those eternal question about how the inuit lived up north in our country of Canada. I asked my dad about it. He looked it up for part of the answer and he already knew the first part of the answer. The Muslim fasting in a place where the Fajr and Maghrib are not easily available can CHOOSE from the two choices: 1. Follow the Longitude line of where you are towards the equator and the first major city or settlement, follow that city's time table for salat times, including fajr/maghrib. 2. If no city or settlement falls along your Longitude line anywhere, then pick Madinah. As a child, I remember confirming Madinah specifically and not Makkah, but now, years later, I can't recall the criteria in the answer. These Timing decisions apply to Santa's Elves as they live up north, and InshAllah, they'll revert to Islam in time for eid. These timings apply when Muslims are in orbit above the earth say in the Space Station Mir or the Space Shuttle. In Fact as there has already been one Muslim go up in the Shuttle, This has already been observed. Muslims have Lived in Far Eastern Russia for close to 1300 years. This is a cold place. A hard place. A place where the long hard winters demand much patience. Much Sabr. Hence the Muslims called this place: Siberia. We've had this situation of long nights and long days during Ramadhan and how to fast up there answered for centuries. We still call the place Siberia. So do the Russians. I wonder if Santa Clause reverted to Islam, Would Christmas be cancelled? hmmmm.... Salam, Your bro in T.O., ~ HiMY! ~ |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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bhaloo |
12/06/00 at 20:29:50 |
slm There was a Muslim in space? Who is he? I wonder how he prayed without any gravity, must have been hard. |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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Asim |
12/06/00 at 23:40:12 |
wlm [quote] There was a Muslim in space? Who is he? [/quote] Some Saudi guy (prince?). I forgot the name. |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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Mona |
12/07/00 at 16:16:44 |
Assalamu alaikum, [quote] There was a Muslim in space? Who is he? [/quote] Prince Sultan ibn Sauod (sp?). I remeber it was a while back. [quote] Muslims have Lived in Far Eastern Russia for close to 1300 years. This is a cold place. A hard place. A place where the long hard winters demand much patience. Much Sabr. Hence the Muslims called this place: Siberia.[/quote] Is that why Scarborough (in TO) is sometime called Scarberia? Because Scarboroughans need patience..:D ? Wassalam |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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Kathy |
12/08/00 at 09:32:29 |
slm Just came across this: From Islam Q&A 1730 Fasting in countries where the day is very short or very long. In some parts of the Scandinavian countries, the day may be much longer than the night, depending on the time of year. The night may be only three hours long, when the day is twenty-one hours. If it happens that Ramadaan comes in the winter, the Muslims fast for only three hours, but if it happens that Ramadaan comes in the summer, they do not fast because they are not able to, as the day is so long. Please tell us when we should have suhoor and iftaar, and on how many days of Ramadaan we should fast. Praise be to Allaah. Islam is perfect and comprehensive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings): “… This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion…” [al-Maa’idah 5:3] “Say [O Muhammad]: ‘What thing is the most great to witness?’ Say: ‘Allaah (the Most Great!) is Witness between me and you; this Qur’aan has been revealed to me that I may therewith warn you and whomsoever it may reach…” [al-An’aam 6:19] “And We have not sent you [O Muhammad] except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind….” [Saba’ 34:28] Allaah has told the believers that fasting is obligatory (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Observing al-sawm (fasting) is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become the pious.” [al-Baqarah 2:183] And Allaah has explained when the fasting should begin and end (interpretation of the meaning): “… and eat and drink until the white thread (light of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night), then complete your fast till the nightfall…” [al-Baqarah 2:187] This ruling is not addressed to any particular country or type of people; it is a universal law, which also includes the people asked about in the question. Allaah is Merciful and Kind towards His slaves and has prescribed for them ways of ease to help them to do what He has made obligatory. For example, He allows travellers and the sick not to fast during Ramadaan, to save them from hardship, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “The month of Ramadaan in which was revealed the Qur’aan, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadaan, i.e., is present at his home), he must observe fasting that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe sawm (fasts( must be made up] from other days…” [al-Baqarah 2:185] So every responsible adult Muslim who is present when Ramadaan comes is obliged to fast, no matter whether the day is short or long. If a person is unable to complete a day’s fast, and fears that he may die or become ill, he is permitted to eat just enough to keep his strength up and keep himself safe from harm, then he should stop eating and drinking for the rest of the day, and he has to make up the days he has missed later on, when he is able to fast. And Allaah knows best. Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 10/114 |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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jannah |
12/09/00 at 01:08:14 |
salam, i think that fatwa is addressing the fact that we do *have to fast* no matter what country we are in. as for the number of hours, time issue, other scholars have addressed that. our imam told us of the two main views.. the closest 'normal' country and br himy gave us a fascinating (at least to someone like me who works in a mapping software company with latitude longitude coming out of the ears) account of how to do that, or using the times directly from makkah (from what i remember, although br himy remembers madina) w'Allahu alam |
NS |
Alaska, Norway et al. Two Easts, Two Wests & Space |
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SuperHiMY |
12/13/00 at 03:36:14 |
AsalamAlayKum Kathy, Nalasra, Arshad, Asim, Mona and Sister J. and Bhallo too! I was going through Jannah.org withdrawal because I didn't log in for close to three days! :-O ! I know I know...shame on me! Hence, here I am, overcompensating with a long winded email that just goes on and on and on.... So here it is, just before circa three am here in Toronto... and I'm typing... As for Being up in Space and and being Muslim, "Allah created the Two Easts and the Two Wests." Some centuries ago, Muslims wondered Why Allah said in the Qur'an the 'TWO' easts and wests. They all knew the horizon of East and West were there of course. And East was East and West was WEst. And that was that. Today, Here I am up on the 21st floor of an apartment building in Downtown Toronto. Most days I can see out my westward window and watch the sun become swallowed up by the horizon just past the Niagara Escarpment and Hamilton Mountain like it did during last night's maghrib, despite a slight dash of cloud cover. The Distance between the Sun setting on the shortest day of the year just coming up soon and the longest day of the year in summertime, to me reminds me of that ayah. The sunset from my balcony means in summer the sun sets behind Pearson Airport, and nowadays in winter, the sun sets between two condominiums on the Lakeshore. In my city of Toronto, The difference is 18 degrees on the horizon from summer time to wintertime as to where the sun actually sets. As muslims moved farther and farther away from the equator, Muslims finally understood that the TWO EASTs and THE TWO WESTs meant just this phenomenon. We define East and West as where the Sun sets and where the Sun Rises. Every year, we actually have then, TWO easts and indeed TWO wests. what's my point? Unless Muslims had in fact Migrated up here to closer to the Alleged secret hideaway of Santa and his elves, Unless Muslims had experienced a full four season year closer to the south and north poles, That Ayah would not have been understood by us all properly. So, first off, I beleive muslims were MEANT to live up in Alaska and Norway and Finland. just so we could figure all that out. Now about 'Scarberia' ... We the People, The people of Downtown Toronto, will do our best to avoid moving up to Scarborough. Scarborough, a strange type of suburb-city. This part of the city of Toronto, being in the upper right side or north-east end of the city is just plain FAR AWAY from all the good parts of Toronto. We Torontotonians make Scarborough jokes like Manhattanites make jokes about Brooklyn. Scarberians I expect need a lotta patience with all the jokes about them! :-O As for the Madinah over Makkah, I thought about it and tried to recall the reasoning my Dad gave me. We choose Madinah because as Makkah is the CENTRE of the islamic world, and we would be fasting in a place where the Longitude provided no settlement or city as a time example to base our fasting times on, Madinah is a place that is not the centre. The Qiblah from Madinah points to Makkah. The Qiblah from one's igloo would still point to Makkah as well. Hence A muslim up north with 6 month days and a muslim in Madinah has more in common with each other in that they are BOTH unable to fast in Makkah and both pray towards Makkah. gee...I know what I just all typed ain't as coherent as it should be, but I hope you get the gist of what I mean....I'm a bit tired and ain't up to composing it better. And for our Famous Image Mapping Muslim, A link: http://www.islam.tc/images/satellite_photos.htm I suppose, that Muslim who went up in the Shuttle had an interesting Qiblah direction for his salat when they flew above the link above [sic]. SalamAlayKum, Stay away from MarshMallows. Your Bro in T.O., ~ HiMY! ~ |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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jannah |
12/13/00 at 12:08:28 |
salam, that was phat himy! i wonder if they have satellite images w/ better resolution on terraserver or something... |
Re: Santa's Elves, Mir, The Space Shuttle and Siberia |
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Malika |
12/14/00 at 11:58:12 |
[quote] I wonder if Santa Clause reverted to Islam, Would Christmas be cancelled? hmmmm.... [/quote] If Santa reverted He would want his own EID. He would not be important anymore. |
Santa Claus and Eid, and the Movie Pitch Black |
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SuperHiMY |
12/16/00 at 08:35:34 |
AsalamAlayKum, Santa would want his own Eid...eh? Okay, if just the ELVES reverted, would then MUSLIM children start to get more toys on Eid? I'm just typing silly now... In the past year I saw a movie called, "Pitch Black". It's a science fiction movie when a transport ship is making a trip from one planet to another and they have to make an emergency landing. They crash on a planet with three suns about to experience an eclipe. Four of the passengers who survive the crash are Muslim. One Imam and three muslim boys on their way to, "New Makkah" for Hajj. It was one of the best on screen representations of Muslims and Islam as being accepted simply for what it is. That got me rethinking about salat times and fastings etc etc and rest of our muslim duties when mankind does eventually tame space travel to a regular thing like air travel is today. Anyone else other than me think about these things??? Salam, Himy. Pronounced Him-Me. |
Re: Santa Claus and Eid, and the Movie Pitch Black |
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bhaloo |
12/16/00 at 09:15:07 |
slm [quote]ng like air travel is today. Anyone else other than me think about these things??? Himy. Pronounced Him-Me.[/quote] Yeah I have been thinking about those things and I have been thinking about how to pronounce your name for a long time. :) I always thought it was pronounced Hi-me, but now I see that I was mistaken. :) I saw that movie as well, Pitch Black, it was nice how they mentioned Islam in there. |
Re: Alaska, Norway, Findland, etc... |
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AbuSobiya |
12/18/00 at 08:05:35 |
slm I also think about it HiMY. I actully think the Quran holds the secret to Time Travel and Space time continuem ( I am not sure I spelled it right) because of "Meraj" and Prophet Mohammad sls travelling at the speed of light and all... Wassalam Abu Sobiya " Guns and gun powder was invented by Muslims " |
Time Travel |
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SuperHiMY |
01/29/01 at 04:16:35 |
AsalamAlay.com, When I attended the American Islamic College, Back in the last century, we students had a discussion one evening on whether Time Travel was Halal or not. What it boiled down to for me was the following thought: IF I could travel back in time, Forget my family, forget I can't speak arabic, forget my addiction to many things Star Trek, I'd immediately travel back in time to the Time of the Prophet [saw] and become a sahabah. Period. What other reason could possibly exist for creating time travel??? Your bro in T.O. Toronto Ontario ~ HiMY! ~ pronounced Him-Me. |
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