Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| i was listening... |
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| Kashif |
| 12/12/00 at 04:37:15 |
| assalaamu alaikum I was listening to a radio show on polygyny and a caller rang up and asked "when you go to the marriage interview how do you ask the sister about her stand on the issue of polygyny?..." and the presenter said "well bro, its like a case of getting the first one, and after that ...insha'llah.." LOL!!! That made my day *smile* Anyhow, one good argument i heard was this. A sister pointed out that among the qualities of the best hubby is that he is the kindest to his wife, so how can he be being kind to his wife if he takes another wife who will compete with the first wife for his attention? The speaker said, imagine a woman who has a son, and she loves him dearly. She loves him so much she never wants him to get married. Is this just? Of course, not. The mother is being oppressive to her son by not allowing him to marry, JUST as the wife is being oppressive to her husband by not allowing him to exercise an Allah-given right. In closing, i'd like to direct all sisters comments to my esteemed brethren Arshad & lightningatnite, who will be happy to field your questions and comments. Kashif Wa Salaam |
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| se7en |
| 12/11/00 at 20:59:01 |
[quote] i'd like to direct all sisters comments to my esteemed brethren Arshad & lightningatnite, who will be happy to field your questions and comments. [/quote] Kashif bro that's a cop out!!! :P |
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| lightningatnite |
| 12/12/00 at 18:45:19 |
| salam :) Kashif, you'd throw your own brother in a pit full of lions eh.. :) When someone asked Dr. Jamal Badawi about polygyny, he said: "Isn't one enough?!!" :) I'm just playing, I already got in big trouble this week for saying something stupid about hijab. Arshad, this one is all you my friend... :) wassalam :) |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/12/00 at 20:44:47 |
| slm [quote]Kashif, you'd throw your own brother in a pit full of lions eh.. :) [/quote] I was thinking of EXACTLY the same thing!!! It feels like we are gladiators thrown into an arena of hungry lions ready to attack us and Kashif is the emperor sitting in the arena enjoying the spectacle. ;) [quote] I already got in big trouble this week for saying something stupid about hijab. [/quote] Really? What happened? ??? |
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| Saleema |
| 12/12/00 at 21:11:32 |
| Assalam ualykum, I want to know what happened also! :) I read somewhere that Nigerian woman protested that Nigerian men need to take more than one wife because there are more women than men. I think they should. If I was a Nigerian guy, i would marry more than one woman. Or if I was a Nigerian woman, I would tell my husband to take more than one wife. Wassalam |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/12/00 at 22:13:34 |
| slm [quote] I read somewhere that Nigerian woman protested that Nigerian men need to take more than one wife because there are more women than men. [/quote] You are referring to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1011000/1011290.stm Nigerian women appeal for husbands By Ibrahim Dosara in Gusau, Zamfara State Economic hardship and early and forced marriages are leading to a large number of divorced women in northern Nigeria. This appears to be causing concern to the authorities in the region. They warned that the situation may force them to commit crimes against Sharia law Several state governments have gone as far as lowering the dowry price from a minimum of $1,000 to just $10, so the less fortunate can afford to get married. Despite this, little progress appears to have been made. Now a group of divorcees and widows has taken to the streets in Zamfara State to demonstrate against the lack of husbands. March for men More than 1,000 divorcees and widows marched round the major streets of the municipal town of Bungudu to show their anger and annoyance with men with less than two wives. The protesters want such men to come to their rescue by marrying them in order to reduce the number of widows and divorcees roaming about in the towns and villages of the state. Sharia law covers most areas of life After going round the major streets the protesters went to the Emir's palace where they aired their grievances. They said the Emir should use his influence to persuade men to increase the number of their wives as part of their contribution to the implementation of Sharia law in the state. They warned that the situation may force them to commit crimes against Sharia law. The Emir pledged to support their demands. One of the divorcees I spoke to told me that since she was divorced 11 years ago only two people had attempted to marry her but neither were serious. She said many men try and deceive women by making promises to marry them but then change their minds. A widow told me she lost her husband in a motor accident six years ago and since then no one has attempted to marry her. Dowry costs When Sharia law was introduced in the state the cost of marriage with dowries was reduced by the government but many women vehemently refused to comply. The spread of Sharia divides opinions A young man in the state capital Gusau told me his inability to marry was due to economic reasons. He said men require between $500-$1,000 to marry the woman of their choice and he was not able to afford that amount of money. Other men I spoke to told me that they are sceptical of taking so-called "second-hand" wives for fear of HIV. Under Islamic law a man is entitled to up to four wives under certain conditions. He has to be economically viable, able to provide food, clothing and accommodation to all his wives and to share his love equally among them. |
| NS |
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| Aladdin |
| 12/13/00 at 07:05:57 |
| Salaams, I thought the wife-to-be has the FULL right to veto their husband from marrying a second wife, or in failing to do so, divorce the husband. The example given about the mother stopping her son from getting married is slightly different to polygamy. It's more important for someone to get married, than for a husband to have another wife. Whatever the case, the wife has the final say. I recall Imaam Hamza Yusuf mentioning that in Mautitania, hardly any of the men have more than one wife, because the wife has the right to place within the conditions of the nikkah "contract" a condition about haveing a second wife. Wa-Salaams. |
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| Aladdin |
| 12/13/00 at 07:08:44 |
| yup - I can't type as well ... I meant "Mauritania" and not "mautitania" .. gosh, it sounds like a manufacturing process for titanium metals! :-) |
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| Aladdin |
| 12/13/00 at 07:12:24 |
| Oh, and I meant :) and not :-) ;-D |
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| Saleema |
| 12/13/00 at 08:55:30 |
Assalam ualykum, The simple solution to see if a "second hand" wife has HIV or not, is to go to the doctor and get a check up. Polygamy was allowed for a reason, you know, so the societies fabric can be strengthened. If there are going to be tons of young women, divorced and widowed, then there will be negative consequences of that. If Allah has blessed you with a husband, why not share that blessing, get a *huge* reward from Allah for that? What if you were on the other end, someone who could not get a husband? Muslims are against polygamy so much today because the West has influenced them. Most of us accept that its a good thing that Allah has allowed in times of hardship, but *very few* are willing to sacrifice and actually practice it. If we didn't have to be on the defensive all the time for our religion, I'm sure then we wouldn't feel like. (This in no way is attacking anyone in particular, but is addressed to people in general. :) ) wassalam |
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| Kashif |
| 12/13/00 at 10:10:21 |
| assalaamu alaikum [quote]I thought the wife-to-be has the FULL right to veto their husband from marrying a second wife, or in failing to do so, divorce the husband.[/quote] No she doesn't - UNLESS this is stipulated as a condition in the marriage contract. But more about that below. [quote]The example given about the mother stopping her son from getting married is slightly different to polygamy. It's more important for someone to get married, than for a husband to have another wife.[/quote] In principle though, i don't believe there is a difference: in both cases, the man in the middle is being 'denied' to exercise a right that he has been given by Allah Himself.* [quote]Whatever the case, the wife has the final say. I recall Imaam Hamza Yusuf mentioning that in Mautitania, hardly any of the men have more than one wife, because the wife has the right to place within the conditions of the nikkah "contract" a condition about haveing a second wife. [/quote] I don't think this is the correct opinion (but i'm a muqallid anyway, so what do i know?). What i mean to say is that, sure, there is a difference of opinion about the issue, but what i've been taught is that the opinion that the woman is allowed to make this stipulation arose in a time where polygyny was freely practised and there was no social stigma attached to the practise. Compare that with today, where this sunnah is very rarely practised, and if we are to say that its _OK_ to make this stipulation, then perhaps we are working towards putting a nail in the coffin of this already infrequently practised sunnah. Mind you, i have to point out again that just because there is a difference of opinion on this issue, one shouldn't take that as "oh well, i'll take the one that sounds nicest to me," but rather one should try to find out which opinion is closer to the truth. Personally, i believe that the opinion that this stipulation is put in the contract is incorrect. Kashif Wa Salaam *This is assuming that the brother can support a second wife. |
| NS |
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| widad |
| 12/14/00 at 15:59:34 |
| slm Well,the example set about MAURITANIA is not quite right,it is true that a woman can ask for this condition n her contract but are we going to wait until there is another Nigeria?Or another Europe?? In Mauritania,women marry more than once,that is if one is not comfortable with her husband ,she gets a divorce and marries another,they have this "special" system in marriage,you would find that awoman got married at least twice in her lifetime and men even more!!But they do have some who marry more than one. When we want to set an example it has to be from the quran and sunnah,for theses people of different countries are simply human beings with deficiencies. **by the way my uncles are from Mauritania. |
| NS |
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| Al-Basha |
| 12/14/00 at 17:07:26 |
| Salamu Aliakom, [quote] I recall Imaam Hamza Yusuf mentioning that in Mautitania, hardly any of the men have more than one wife, because the wife has the right to place within the conditions of the nikkah "contract" a condition about haveing a second wife. [/quote] Yes I actually heard him say this too, and I know for a fact that the shaikhs wife made that stipulation in the nikkah contract. Which is a good thing, because I have heard from some sisters who've said that they would do anything to marry him ... As far as polygny goes, I think most of the guys interested in getting a 2nd wife, are fedup with their 1st wife and don't want to admit that they themselves have issues they need to resolve before remarrying. Yeah I know I might get flamed for this but, honestly you bro's out there who are already married and want to remarry is it really neccessary that you do so? Someone might use the argument of taking care of widows etc, well you don't have to marry them to take care of them. I know of several Islamic organizations where you can sponser a widows family, in Palestine, Kashmir etc. Wa Allahu A3laam |
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| jannah |
| 12/14/00 at 21:21:03 |
| [quote]Compare that with today, where this sunnah is very rarely practised, and if we are to say that its _OK_ to make this stipulation, then perhaps we are working towards putting a nail in the coffin of this already infrequently practised sunnah. [/quote] I can't think of any hadiths that say it is recommended or better to have more than one wife.Just those that say it is permissible IF you have the means/fulfill the conditions. Again here is the thread that has the Islamic legal positions of the 4 schools on this: [url]http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=sisters&action=display&num=750[/url] I'm not sure why this topic was brought up again. I think that everyone agreed that it was permissible and if it was something they personally did not want to choose for their life they could add that in the contract. If you want to say that this will eradicate this practice from earth.. perhaps it is just the times..since Allah is the All-Knowing He made the Shariah flexible for all times and places and needs. This need perhaps is not currently widespread among the Ummah. By the way if we are going to argue that sisters putting this in their contract (even though it's valid for them) shouldn't because of XYZ consequences, then it is fair game to say that brothers who marry "christians and jews" should also think about that because of XYZ consequences. Alls fair in ...discussion...:) |
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