Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| Saleema |
| 12/13/00 at 09:21:31 |
| McVeigh Wants Execution Date Set The Associated Press Dec 13 2000 5:42AM DENVER (AP) - Against his attorneys' advice, convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh has sought to end appeals in his case and be executed within 120 days. McVeigh offered no explanation for his decision, made public Tuesday, but said he reserved the right to seek executive clemency. ``I want him executed, but still there's nothing to celebrate,'' said Jannie Coverdale, whose two grandsons died in the April 19, 1995, bombing, the worst such attack on U.S. soil. McVeigh, 32, was convicted of murder and conspiracy and sentenced to death in the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building that killed 168 people and injured more than 500. Marsha Kight, whose daughter was killed in the blast, said she wanted McVeigh to ``rot in jail.'' ``It's not that I don't think that he doesn't deserve to die. I just think it is too easy,'' she said. ``I have to live with this the rest of my life. He should have to live with it the rest of his life.'' In March 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court left intact McVeigh's conviction and death sentence, rejecting his contention that his trial was tainted by jury misconduct and news reports that he confessed to his lawyers. In October, U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch denied McVeigh's second appeal, which contended trial attorney Stephen Jones failed to represent him adequately. Jones has denied the allegations. His current attorneys are researching grounds for other appeals. In an affidavit made Dec. 7 and filed with the court Monday, McVeigh asked for permission to waive further court reviews. He also asked that his execution be held within 120 days of the statement, or by early April. He said he will undergo a psychological evaluation if necessary but would ``not justify or explain my decision to any psychologist.'' U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch, who presided at McVeigh's trial, could approve the request, reject it or order a competency hearing first. Justice Department spokeswoman Chris Watney had no comment. Attorney Nathan Chambers, who represents McVeigh, declined to discuss his conversations with his client. Chambers believes McVeigh has grounds for a new appeal contending that his constitutional rights were violated at the trial because of ineffective counsel. During his trial, prosecutors argued that McVeigh, a decorated Gulf War veteran, planned the bombing after becoming bitter over the 1993 deadly FBI raid on the Branch Davidians compound near Waco, Texas. Andrew Cohen, a CBS-TV legal analyst who has monitored all of McVeigh's judicial proceedings, said McVeigh's latest decision is consistent with views he previously expressed. ``I think he always perceived himself to be a political person, and this would be the ultimate political statement, to give up his appeal and become a martyr,'' Cohen said. Bud Welch, whose 23-year-old daughter Julie Marie Welch was killed in the blast, has been an outspoken opponent of the death penalty since McVeigh was sentenced. He said he was saddened by McVeigh's decision and thought it was borne of the same insanity that led McVeigh to bomb the Murrah building. ``The day Tim McVeigh is taken from that cage in Indiana and put to death is not going to bring Julie Marie Welch back,'' Welch said. ``God did not make us so that we feel good about killing a caged human being. It's not part of the healing process.'' |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| jannah |
| 12/13/00 at 10:55:54 |
| salam, who are you refering to as evil or insane :) i think a decision like that is really difficult for anyone mcveigh or the victim's families... |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| Saleema |
| 12/13/00 at 12:10:11 |
| Assalam ualykum, Anyone who thinks that ppl that kill just have psychological problems and therefore should be pardoned-- there's something amiss in their sense of justice. mcveigh is evil, not insane. Who cares if the decision that he made for himself must have been hard? It didn't seem hard to him when he killed innocent civilians nor did it seem particularly harsh to him when the Muslims were blamed for his horrendous act. wassalam |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| jannah |
| 12/13/00 at 12:18:19 |
| wlm, hmm true..i wonder where the line stands between evilness and insanity...aren't you sick in some way to do something like this in the first place. there must be something wrong in your natural fitrah to let you do this. then again there are people who clearly know something is wrong and they do it anyway. i guess it's up to the judge to decide whether you were conscious or not..and then finally up to Allah the real Judge |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| jade |
| 12/13/00 at 13:56:36 |
| SALAAM, "aren't you sick in some way to do something like this in the first place. there must be something wrong in your natural fitrah to let you do this" can we try to define what the natural fitrah is? as I understand it in the quran fitrah is the knowing that thier is a god. and all people have this. it is people who fight it or distort it. leading to atheism or shirk. the question then is: can a person have a natural fitrah and still be evil? or is all evil born of distortion of the fitrah. but I know people who seem to truly believe in God but do bad things anyway. some people rationalise whatever bad thing they do to the point that they believe what they are doing isn't really bad. is this persons fitrah o.k or not? like jannah said: hmm |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 12/13/00 at 18:58:13 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum [quote]can a person have a natural fitrah and still be evil? [/quote] The natural fitrah is to recognise and worship your Lord. The nature of this world is such that performing bad actions blackens the heart whilst performing good deeds polishes it.(I've been trying to find this Hadith but can't as yet :( ) If the bad actions continue, there will come a time where the heart is sealed and the person spiritually dies. Hence the person's own actions cause his heart to die because of the numerous evil deeds performed. We are all capable of evil but as long as our heart is not dead, cut off and veiled, there is always a chance of repentance. For those whose hearts have been sealed, one wonders whether they can differentiate between good or bad. And Allah knows best |
| Re: Evilness not insanity--whats wrong with these ppl? |
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| Sara |
| 12/13/00 at 19:49:08 |
| Assalam, I agree with Saleema a 100%. If you kill an innocent person/people you deserve to die. You have no reason to live after you take an innocent person/people's life. That is what's wrong with the American "justice" system. There is NO justice!!! I don't know how many times I hear about killers getting parole after-what-10 years. If America followed the same laws that is in the Quran,we would have less problems. Well,least in my opinion. |
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