Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Is College Useless? |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/28/00 at 10:49:13 |
| Asalaam alaikum wrt wb, Do you think college is useless? Are you making use of that knowledge? Do you think it will benifit you? I had a professor tell me, you will make use of only 5% of the knowledge you learn in college. Isn't that pretty sad? So mostly its a big waste of time then. Ok, let the attacks begin. :) |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| ki |
| 08/28/00 at 11:06:53 |
| Assalamu alaikum wa rahmtullah wa barakatuhu No college is not useless. It is a valuable experience. Ok even if the "education" that u get is of no use, you can still learn so much more. For instance, I learnt so much about the better life that Islam blesses us with by being in an atmosphere where so many haram things were happening. I started with my Hijab in college as well. All in all I think college should definitely not be missed out on. Now lets hear the opposition's views. wassalam |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/28/00 at 15:48:04 |
| Assalamu alaikum, "Innamal a'maalu bin niyyaat ..." - Actions are only by their intentions! Like se7en so eloquently pointed out in one of the other threads, we need to keep this idea in our heads [i]all the time[/i], and Higher Education is no different. We need to realize that there is a valuable reason why we're in college, and that reason is to become professionals in a field and help the Muslim Ummah by doing so. If we don't have this intention, then we need to renew our intentions. If we have it, then we need to keep it that way. Sometimes we forget the big picture, and that is when we get frustrated and start questioning what we're doing. To maintain focus, you have to maintain the big picture in your mind. Now one can turn around and say to me that "oh the Ummah has so many doctors, engineers, they don't need more." You're wrong! Yes, there are many Muslims that are engineers, doctors, etc. But how many of them utilize their specialties for the sake of Islam? Sadly, the number is very small! If you can work for that goal, then you can do a huge service to Islam and the Muslims. Take the example of a computer scientist. If you are studying in the USA, and you finish your degree, you should find a job that will help you eventually start your own company, because you can't help the Ummah much by working for some other company! So you should pick a job that will give you a lot of experience in a relatively short amount of time, so that you can "stand up on your own feet" (so to speak). Once you initiate, say, a small consulting company, you can make it a point to hire as many Muslim workers that you can. That way you will be helping Muslims find jobs and work together in an Islamic environment. Anybody in the work-field out there can imagine what a difference it would make for someone to work for a Muslim firm rather than a non-Muslim one! It doesn't stop there! Every company works with other companies that makes products needed for their work. If there are two existing companies, both run by Muslims, that can help each other out, then imagine the possibilities! The same idea can go for any major, any field. The idea can even be extended internationally. Sky is the limit here. But it all starts with that university diploma. So never think that you're doing something that is useless or wasteful. It is not, if you have the proper mindset, and a vision in front of your eyes. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Asim |
| 08/28/00 at 18:34:01 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, I believe the most important benefit we get from college is the ability to reason and think logically and critically. Material knowledge that we gain in college will not be retained for long. But we do develop associations in our minds, so that when a particular piece of information is needed, we can at least know where to look for it. As one of my computer science professor says "retain a pointer to the information rather than the actual information. This is more effective" Because of the info overload these days we obviously cannot retain everything, but we can at least maintain some info on where to find it. The subject matter in todays colleges also poses a danger. A student learns how to reason, but the subject matter can easily lead him/her astray. That is why a grounding in Islamic knowledge is essential which can be renewed by reminding ourselves of our intentions for study, as mentioned by Arsalan. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/28/00 at 23:48:38 |
| Asalaam alaikum wrt wb, Its true one needs to see the big picture, i.e. how am I going to get a job to provide for a family in the quickest amount of time? answer: get a computer science degree (or something related). Any other major, would require that you have at least a masters, which is another 2 years so that's 6 years minimum. What I learned in college, I didn't really need those skills to be a computer programmer, I already knew these things. But what I did learn in college was how to work under pressure and developed some critical thinking skills when faced with pressure. I remember taking one class and studying 60 hours a week for it, it was a good experience. I probably could have developed those techniques outside of college. Arsalan, getting a job and then starting a company sounds nice, and the truth is, its wishful thinking. Most small startup companies fold and go out of business quickly, that's the cold reality. For evey success story there are 10 or more failures, and people lose a lot of money. Why don't the sisters instead of getting a degree in math, physics, biology, etc. get a degree in Islam, and be the teachers of this ummah, in a time when we desperataely need scholars. The men should do the same, but obviously they are required to provide for the family, so they should strive to get a job first. What do you think? Do I sound crazy? A little? I think Se7en mentioned this concept in a post somewhere? ??? |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| jannah |
| 08/29/00 at 00:48:16 |
| walaikum salaam wrt, interesting discussion. i think college is a fabulous experience and i really think every muslim should definitely go. in islam learning is a duty and it's not just knowledge of the deen, or i should say the deen should push you to get the other knowledge. i mean imagine if there is a muslim who graduates from high school and never goes to college, first they will always be in a lower socio-economic profile always depending on other people, second college is a place where you can really go and expand your possibilities and learn about so much. asim talked about pointers and it's totally true. to be able to discuss, make decisions, choices, make dawah to your co-workers, for muslims to obtain their rights, to watch the news and filter it for bias...all these kinds of things are learned they are not intuition. serious life skills are learned with good schooling. why do you think some parents kill themselves to send their kids to a private school? isn't public school the same thing, requisite information? it isn't, in private schools they are more determined to build the character, skills and knowledge in order to develop someone who will be successful in life. plus university is a great place for Islamic activity, especially since most of those people on campus are the future teachers, newspaper columnists, law-makers and military personnel. if someone learns in university that muslims aren't so bad that will stay with them for life. in fact, i would even say that if some of these muslims organizations were smart, they would appropriate half their budget to msa level activities, thus ensuring their own future. as an aside, wouldn't we all like to drop everything and study islam full time. however sisters as well as brothers both have responsibilities that come first. can a sister really depend on always having someone provide for her in a society like ours? death, divorce anything could happen. so while in an islamic society i can see why that would be easy for women, in fact that is probably why women scholars flourished at a different time, but it would be difficult now. also this goes into the whole thing of muslims trying to support others who give up alot in order to better the ummah. there are muslim teachers with degrees and state certification that could be making 5 times as much literally, but don't. there are islamic institutions and imams and knowledgable people who dedicate their lives to islam asking nothing. in return, it should be the duty of the other muslims in the community to support them, financially or otherwise. if this doesn't come about, like we see it's happenning now, these institutions can't exist in a vacuum and the burden on them is too much. ahh now that i'm on a roll, i think every sister has a different reason for what she gets into, but as for computer science, i got into it because the atmosphere is very equitable and it's all about what you know, and not how you look, if you wear hijab or not or lie or bs or compete or what background you come from |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| se7en |
| 08/29/00 at 01:16:35 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, There is way too much I can say on this post. About how ideally women should be allowed to pursue 'ilm without worrying about their financial welfare, but realistically it is impractical for a woman to remain financially dependant on someone. About how yes, it is important to attain a degree in order to provide for a family, but not as important as abstaining from compromising your eman along the way. About how a Muslim woman can pursue a degree in dentistry or engineering or whatever if she chooses to do so in the same way a Muslim man can. About how the secular system of education is not one that teaches knowledge but instead skills that are needed in society. And so on... but I'll have mercy on you all, and stop here. :) |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/29/00 at 10:28:39 |
| Asalaam alaikum wrt wb, Alhumdullilah, very nice post Jannah. With regards to women persuing a degree, taking care of a family, learning about the deen, that all seems like a very difficult and stressful task for any woman, not to mention how many more years of study it will take. If I understand your viewpoint and Se7en's correctly, y'all are saying a woman must persue a degree, and not be financially dependent on anyone. This maybe true out here in the west. I can see the possibility of a young Muslim family out in a community, and there is a divorce or the husband dies, then what does the woman do? In the past (before feminists) families were very close knit. Uncles,aunts, parents, cousins, grandparents, lived close by. They took care of each other, when someone had any difficulty help was nearby. Shouldn't we work to establish this way of thinking? Supporting social services as you mentioned is another way to take care of this, but there is only so much they can do. My MSA was pathetic it didn't do a thing. I remember one day they had people signing up to be part of the MSA, they had to pay $5, and I remember asking what the $5 was for, and they said it was for membership dues, and I think someone said it was something you could put on your resume. That's all they did. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Saleema |
| 08/29/00 at 14:15:09 |
| Assalamoalykum, I love going to college!! So far. I will see if I still love it once I ask the professor about the make up work from Monday. Knowledge is Power. Just want to say that we should leave the idea of this secular vs deeni education. We as Muslims have the obligation of attaining both. Whatever you major in if u help out people or society with it for the good then you will get ajar for it. Does not this then become abadah? Islam is a **complete way of life.** I think this is all I am going to write on this topic. Acutally I didn't address the issue directly. No, college is not a waste of time. There. Wassalam |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Asim |
| 08/30/00 at 00:01:53 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, I got hold of another Iqbal's poetry book today, and the following two poems I thought are relevant to this thread. A student (Talib-i-ilm) ----------------------- May God make you acquainted with some storm, For in the waves of your sea there is no agitation! It is impossible for you to be free of books. You read books, but you do not master them! College (Madrasa) ------------------ The modern world is your angel of death, Which has taken possession of your soul by giving you concern for earning a living. Your heart shudders from the struggle of rivalry! Life becomes death when it loses the joy of suffering. Education has estranged you from that ectasy which said: 'Do not carve out excuses from your learning.' The bounty of nature bestowed upon you the vision of the royal falcon, And slavery has given it the sight of a bat! Colleges have hidden from your eyes those secretes which are laid open by the solitude of the mountains and the deserts. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Safiya |
| 02/06/02 at 19:32:52 |
| Salaamu alaykum Wrt Wbt i think the only reason i dont really like college at the moment is probably b_cos its a non_muslim institution....if it were islamic then things i think would be different...who agrees? Allah knows what the future holds the prophets (saw) sunnah is for all times i think thats all i have to say... Salaam Alaykum All |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| Ayesha |
| 09/03/00 at 00:02:11 |
| Asalamalaikum I really don't think college is useless. Depends on how one looks at it. Today I feel I know much more had it not been for those four years I spent in school. I especially like the education system here in the U.S. They make you take so many diverse classes. I am software analyst but have taken classes like african art, nutrition , american indian history etc etc. plus you get to meet so many different types of people. All in all I would say it is worthwhile to get atleast some college education. salam ayesha |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| tree |
| 09/04/00 at 10:01:28 |
| slm I don't think college/university is useless either, but your intentions will determine what kind of experience you have. When I went to uni i made sure I chose a subject that I was interested in and would help me develop as a person and not one that would necessarily give me social status or money (much to my parents disappointment initially!). So I took psychology, and in my first year I also took sociology and politics. Then when I had to choose my specialist subject after two years i chose sociology, in which I took a subject called Anthropology of Religion where they taught a section on Islam. And this is what made me realise "why don't i study Islam because it's what means the most to me" and since then I have been trying to do that. I got so much stick from other Muslims who were doing medicine or law for taking sociology because for them it was a "mickey mouse" subject and wouldn't get me anywhere in life! But i am so thankful to Allah that i chose this subject because without it I would never have realised that I could spend my life seeking knowledge of my din, and being content in doing so, instead of being caught up in the thought of "I need to make money...i need to make more money...". So many of the Muslims I knew flocked to enrol for I.T. because they were told that's where the money was, and I see them now and many of them are not happy because they don't like the course or job! It's such a waste of life. So i think you can really enjoy uni if you go with the right mind...don't just think of how much money you may make (although this is important especially for people in difficult circumstnces) but also think of how much you can learn from the subject and enjoy it. But the worst part of uni for me was meeting the Muslims - mainly Asian - because they were pretty superficial, skipped classes, didn't study, had to repeat years because they messed about, were only interested in their faith on the surface, were childish and immature, had no respect for knowledge, etc etc (ok, I'm generalising, but most of them were like this and it has so far been one of the worst experiences of my life!). And to top it all off, I got more respect when I started wearing hijab from my non-Muslim classmates than from these so-called Muslim brothers and sisters! But i better stop there before my blood starts to boil and I tell you what I really think about them! (:) <--- see, i'm still calm and happy just now!). salaam tree |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| proudtobemuslim |
| 09/06/00 at 08:01:50 |
| Assalam-u-Alaikum, This reply is to do with a post somewhere up there by Arsalan and then bhaloo regarding starting up muslim companies after college. I'd just like to say that really I don't see much wrong in wishful thinking. Really, why can't the next Microsoft, GE or Ford be a Muslim company? If for every success there are 10 failures, why can't that success be a Muslim company? Where would the world be if everybody just looked at statistics and decided against doing anything innovative or new? Not to diss you out bhaloo, your points are very valid, but I do believe that just because a start-up fails doesn't mean that an entrepreneur no longer has any means of sustenance. I'm just a bit more optimistic. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| chachi |
| 09/08/00 at 23:40:45 |
college..hmm what i remember is reading EVERYTHING in our school library...finally i was reduced to reading about the lives of spiders.. it made me feel sorry for poor male spiders..hmm the female of the species...lol (apparently some male spiders can actually be seen trembling in the presence of the female...after they leave her a wrapped up gift of a fly ) hmm most famous quote i remember from headteacher after i'd done or said something ..i was a bit of a smart-alec *sigh* 'Do you know what you are boy?...your arrogant! do you know what that means?...yes sir ..it means being proud sir..' he blew his top..i think he was hoping he could get me to go look it up in the dictionary...so he made me stand outside for 2 or 3 lunchtimes with sign round my neck saying something i can't remember.. |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| jannah |
| 09/12/00 at 13:22:18 |
| haha chachi are you sure this was college or was this grade school??? or is there soemthing about english college that no one told us about! |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| chachi |
| 09/15/00 at 21:05:06 |
sorry i thought american college was equivalent to our school...lol |
| Re: Is College Useless? |
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| chachi |
| 09/15/00 at 21:07:14 |
Incidentally i loved college i did 'A' levels in philosophy, world and european history, government & politics and general studies mostly at night...the day classes were full of the usual bunch of idiots |
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