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[REVIEW] ISNA 2000 - the good and the bad
Arsalan
08/12/01 at 05:32:04
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, OK.  I know some sisters from this board (and a couple of brothers) went to ISNA.  I was waiting for someone to start this thread but nobody did.  So I guess I'll take the initiative. This was the first Isna for me.  I had been told many things about it before I went, and most of them were ... bad!  It got to a point when I seriously started having second thoughts about going.  Almost all my friends, when told I was going to Isna, would give me a look and ask the same question: "What! You wanna get married?"   But I decided to go anyway, and I'm glad I did, alhamdulillah.  It is by far one of the most cherishable trips that I have ever taken to date.  The attendance was huge.  The organization was impressive.  The theme was practical and comprehensive (a very tough combination to come up with btw).  The topics all followed the theme and were broad enough to please everyone (another impossible thing to do).  I'll explain what I mean. The talks contained political issues (both American and non-American politics), media, activism, da'wah, organizational talks (MSA), matters of the heart (why can't we cry?), accountability on the D.O.J., etc. etc.  The only things lacking, I guess, were a fatwa session and a session on marriage!  But I was only too happy NOT to see those sessions, because I've seen too many of them already! One thing that impressed me right away was how diverse the speakers were that had been brought there.  They consisted of both Muslims and (gasp) non-Muslims!!!  (Two Congressmen who support Muslim agenda in this country).  They included politicians from all over the world (including the Turkish Parliament member who was thrown out for not wearing hijaab, the vice amir of Jamaat-e-Islami of India, the grandson of Hasan al-Banna, etc.).  They included scholars such as Jamal Badawi, Muzammil Siddiqui, Yusuf al-Qaradawi (on video tape).  They included inspiring speakers such as Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir, Abdullah Idris Ali and Yaqoubi (forgot his last name).  And the highlight of all guest speakers (IMO), a surprise, was Shaikh Abdur Rahman as-Sudais - the Imam of the Ka'bah.  It was a dream praying behind him in Maghrib, Isha and Fajr.  The man who I have tried to emulate so closely in my recitations of the Qur'an, I couldn't believe it, I was praying behind him right here in America, and listening to his khutbah.  Indeed Allah is capable over everything! The speeches were all good, some more interesting than others.  I believe everyone has one or two speakers that really touch their hearts.  For some, it's Hamza Yusuf or Siraj Wahhaj.  For me, it was Mukhtar Maghroui and the sister from Turkey.  Br. Mukhtar is just an amazing person.  I've heard him twice before, and I always thought he was special.  But one of his talks at Isna (why can't we cry?) was just unbelievable.  It just shook me up, like few speakers have done before in such a big gathering (it's easy to shake up someone in a small halaqah, but in big lectures it's tough).  Maybe others can share more about that particular speech. The sister from Turkey, subhanAllah, her story is extremely inspiring.  Her statement "I can't take the freedom of speech and expression guaranteed by this country for granted" just rings in my mind.  The most amazing thing in her speech was (I don't know if any of you noticed it) that she [i]never stopped smiling!!![/i]  And considering the content of her speech, I would have expected her to burst into tears.  I think it just shows her enormous strength, her patience, her trust in Allah, and her uprightness.  She's a model for me, and for all the Muslims in this country who have all the freedoms in the world to promote their da'wah, and yet they sit comfortably on their chairs day after day, wasting their time playing video games and watching tv and movies and what not (a la Hamza Yusuf).  "Why aren't we out there conquering the world?" Hamza Yusuf was great, as always.  Especially his first two speeches.  Unfortunately his last speech was not as had been expected.  It was probably supposed to be the best session of the convention, because it was the last session on sunday, and the last session of Hamza Yusuf.  The topic was "The Mind" - basically about the accountability of our thoughts on the Day of Judgment.  The ayah chosen for it was from Surah Baqarah ("Lillahi maa fis samawati wa maa fil ard; wa in tubdoo maa fee anfusikum aw tukhfoohu yuhaasibkum bihillah..."). I guess it escaped the organizers' mind that this ayah had been abrogated at the time of Rasulullah (by "laa yukallifullahu nafsan illa wus'aha...).  I don't blame them!  I didn't know about it either until a couple of years ago, when I just happened to find out about it from our imam.  Anyway, so Hamza Yusuf just kind of prepared a talk along those lines, but really didn't have a structured speech I thought.  Anyway, an unstructured speech by Hamza Yusuf is still better than any speech by most other people :) What else?  The bazaar was huge.  I couldn't really explore it until Sunday, when I finally decided I can't explore it unless I miss a session!  So I missed one that was supposed to be given by Siraj Wahhaj, but he couldn't make it to the convention because his mother is sick.   The bazaar is too crowded, and the people don't even watch where they're going!  This is one of the bad things of the convention I guess.  There is very little hayaa among alot of people, and it shows in the bazaar and in the lobby.  While I'm talking about the "bad", let me also mention the entertainment session put up by MYNA at the end (sorry se7en).  It consisted of two skits and one song session.  Oh the 3 events themselves were fine (well, almost - I had some problems with the 3rd one), it was the crowd that was the problem.  The rowdiness and the hooting from the crowd were unimaginable for a Muslim crowd!  SubhanAllah!  No, there was no bad words.  No cursing.  But all the shouting and hooting during the skits were uncalled for; it distracted the performers and bored the heck out of people sitting behind them (ME!).  To say the least, it was inappropriate Muslim behavior from the Muslim youth. I didn't really like the clapping during the songs either, nor the arm waiving during the songs (which is remniscent of concerts in this country).   The 3rd skit was a humorous exploration of "Muslim mating rituals" (basically, guys looking for wives).  It was an interview of four guys looking for prospectives for themselves.  All four were, obviously, people depicted to be as such that nobody would ever wanna marry even in their worst nightmares :)  Some of the comments were, I don't know, inappropriate I thought.  "You wanna reboot my hard-drive" or something like that???  "Now we can pray shoulder to shoulder, foot to foot"!!!  [i]Come on!!![/i] Anyway.  The socializing in the hotel lobby and what not is something that I was already prepared for.  So no surprise there.  Although it was not as bad as I had imagined.  I guess the 3-on-3 at night (I heard there were 25 teams of 5 people each) and the fashion show for-sisters-only helped alot because alot of the "social" crowd was pulled to those events!   I don't wanna make this too long (as if it isn't already;)).  But I hope you realize that the goods in the convention outweigh the bads [i]by far![/i].  At least I thought so.  I personally have come back with a rejuvenation of my heart and soul, renewed commitments and a bunch of ideas about activism.  The du'aa "rabbanaa laa tuzigh quloobana ba3da idh hadaytanaa..." (Our Lord, don't turn away our hearts after you have guided us...) has never meant more to me than now!  To those of you who didn't go, you missed alot, and you should try to go next year!  To those who did, I hope you attended all the sessions :)  I wanna hear your stories.  So start spilling em! Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
bhaloo
09/05/00 at 19:27:44
slm bsm Very interesting.  Man, I wish I could hear Sheikh Mokthar speak. :(  Arsalan, you are fortunate, alhumdullilah.  But I guess there is no need to go to ISNA, I can watch the lectures on video from their website?  Right? www.islam.org has some interviews of attendees that stopped by their booth.  I didn't see anyone's name from this message board as one of the interviewies.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/05/00 at 23:10:13
Assalamu alaikum, Arshad, being at ISNA and simply watching the lectures on the computer (or video tape) are not the same.  In fact, the main hall at the convention center was so big that they had to put 6 (or 8 ) huge screens up so that the people in the back could see the speaker, who would otherwise only look like a dot to them!  And there were times when I was too far to see the speaker's facial expressions, but I would still look at the speaker rather than the screen.  It's a different feeling to be seeing him live.   Of course, I haven't even mentioned the feeling of being among thousands of Muslims and the shouts of "Allahu akbar" that move your heart.  You can't experience all that on the computer brother :) Wassalam.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Asim
09/06/00 at 01:45:41
Assalaamu alaikum, I think Arsalan summed it up very well. The overall feeeling one gets out of an ISNA convention is positive. True, the lectures can be heard on tape but one cannot recreate the atmosphere that, I feel, substantially helps an individual to internalize the message of the lecture. And yes, a general lack of hayaa is very evident. It amazes me how Muslims can 'switch' behaviors so quickly. Inside the lecture rooms they would observe good behavior, but as soon as they leave the hall - in the lobby or outside - many forget the basics of behaving in public. Granted, the passage ways and lobby areas become crowded but by observing simple rules life can be made easier for both brothers and sisters. I have seen people walking slowly through crowds blocking everyone behind them, or groups of people standing in the middle and obstructing everyone else. And then there is the bazaar where it seems the level of modesty degrades even further. I have seen groups of young men manning entrances to the bazaar and ogling every sister that passes by. Astaghfirullah! This lack of modesty leaves a bad taste in the mouth for an otherwise excellent experience. I would like to believe that this lapse of hayaa is a fluke occurence that happens only during Isna and is not a reflection of the general Muslim public. I hope I am right! These were my experiences from a couple of Isna conventions I attended when they were held in town. I was also one of the student volunteers that helped out with the organization. Some halls had only one entrance for both sisters and brothers. Manning entrances to such lectures to check everyone entering had a tag was an uncomfortable experience (BTW, some brothers loved it!). Some sisters objected, and justifiably so. But we were presured to ensure that no unregistered person enters. Seperate entrances are a must. In a session on marriage by Amina Assilmi (I hope I got the last name right) tons of young people turned up. We had to pull all the chairs out and everyone sat on the floor knee to knee. That was an interesting experience! Parallel sessions (isna and msa) always created a difficult decision - which one to attend and which one to miss? >>It was probably supposed to be the best session of the convention, because it was the last session on sunday, and the last session of Hamza Yusuf. If experience is any indicator last sessions are usually the worst. This is the session where Isna does the fund raising. Popular speakers like Hamza Yusuf are called upon to entice donations from the public. Overall, the goods outweigh the bads. One does come away from Isna with a new resolve and commitment. Just my two cents. Wasalaam.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
proudtobemuslim
09/07/00 at 08:26:56
Assalam-u-Alaikum, I'm happy for you guys... at least there's some place USA where a MUSLIM can unwind! But I have a few questions.  Some of the descriptions that were made here indicate that men and women are mixing together in the bazaars, (halls?) etc.  Please elaborate. Also, some of the scholars that you mention are known (at least by my teachers) to be non-Salafi.  For example, I was told that Hamza Yusuf believes in a fourth section of Tawheed called Tawheed Al-Hakimiyyah.  [I removed some content that i thought was a bit naive on my part] You must be thinking that who am I to rule which scholar is correct and which is wrong.  But I have the Fatwas of the great Sheikhs Al-Uthaymeen and Al-Albaanee and can email them to you at any time.  These people are the greatest scholars of our time along with others such as Bin Baaz (May Allah have mercy on his soul), Al-Fawzaan and Saleem Al-Hilalee. I'm not sure about the other scholars that you mention so I won't say anything... but please do comment and discuss about the issues here. THIS IS TAWHEED WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!  THE FUNDAMENTALS OF ISLAM!

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/06/00 at 09:34:00
Assalamu alaikum, Regarding your question about mixing, I don't know what else is there to elaborate!  There is mixing in the halls and bazaar!  Imagine 30,000 people, men, women and children in one building.  No matter how big the building is, there will be crowding.  It is impossible to separate the brothers and sisters completely for various reasons, one of which is the problem of families losing each other all the time.  Of course, what Asim said about hayaa is very much a missing factor ... something that is inexcusable in my opinion.  But crowding itself is inevitable and complete separation is impractical and impossible. About Hamza Yusuf's beliefs, I don't know if he believes in 4 aspects of tawhid or not.  You are the first one to tell me of this.  I would like to read these fatwas that you are talking about by the Shuyookh (in a separate thread though).  And I'm not sure what you mean by : [quote]if a man rules even slightly outside of the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Rasool (SAW) then there must be an immediate uprising.  [/quote] According to my understanding, the Qur'an or Hadith never talk about the terms "Tawhid ar-Ruboobiyyah, Tawhid al-Uloohiyyah and Tawhid al-Asmaa was-Siffaat."  These are terminologies and divisions made by the scholars of Islam.  As long Hamza Yusuf (or others) have not blasphemed Allah with having a certain quality that He does not have, or taking away a certain quality of His that he does have, he is not going against the Qur'an and/or Sunnah. Wallahu a'lam.

ISNA - the good and the bad
proudtobemuslim
09/07/00 at 03:22:52
Assalam-u-Alaikum, >>>if a man rules even slightly outside of the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Rasool (SAW) then there must be an immediate uprising.<<< Ya, I guess I was a bit too dramatic with that comment. Basically (Kashif helped with this), some scholars are saying that division into 4 sections is Bid'ah while some say that it is not.  What is right?  Are the beliefs of those who separate into 4 different from others in any way? I suppose meagre students of knowledge shouldn't go into delicate subjects like this, but... Anyway, thanks for the clarification Arsalan. Wassalam-u-Alaikum

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
se7en
09/07/00 at 15:10:45
Zaid Shaker told me and a room of eight hundred that when the cells of a heart are separated, they beat out of synchronicity.  But when these cells are put together, their physical coming together puts them in a state of harmony, and they beat as one.   This conference brought rhythm to 30,000 hearts.  It brought a rhythm to our screaming takbeer as a passionate speaker asked us why we weren’t out there conquering the world.  To our ebb and flow in the hallways trying to make it to that next session on time.  To our scrambling for meals in the few moments we had free.  To the tears in our eyes when a singer asked us if our intentions were alright.  To resonating Ameen in our countless prayer lines while the Imam of the Harram lead us in Salatul Fajr.     For three days, my heart beat with 30,000 of my brothers and sisters.  For three days, the passion and strength of some of the most amazing people on the planet were fed directly into my head and my heart.  For three days I was amidst people whose lives are devoted to pleasing Allah.  That was the good. The bad?  People who didn't act correctly.  Like br. Naeem said in entertainment: "we need some adab up in here!"   Did the good outweigh the bad?  By far.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
chachi
09/08/00 at 22:22:45
I thought the best talks by hamza yusuf were ones where he's really disorganized s ! he starts with one subject and after 3 hours he's talked about what seems like everything and he's still not finished!

ISNA: The Good, the Bad.. the Food?
admin
09/09/00 at 12:55:11
ISNA: The Good, the Bad.. the Food? by Huma Ahmad This year's ISNA (2000) like all ISNAs is something to remember for the entire year to come. There were many wonderful highlights of the convention and of course there were many things that can be improved for next year, Insha Allah. International guests such as Sr. Merve Kavacki of Turkey, Sh. Sudais, Imam of the Harram and Tarek Ramadan, grandson of Hasan al-Banna were amazing to see and hear. These are truly the superstars of Islam that our youth need as heroes to look up to. Sh. Hamza, Imam Zaid Shakir, Sh. Yacubi, Br. Mokhthar and others gave powerful speeches. Imam Sudais led the prayers in a Qiraat sweeter than his millions of tapes, along with encouraging short talks. Sr. Merve brought amazement to the audience as she described how by law Islam was oppressed in Turkey and how much we in the US take for granted, even little freedoms like teaching our children Quran or wearing the Hijab. Br. Tarek talked about how Muslims sometimes act differently on the outside with non-Muslims than they do with Muslims. Imam Hamza spoke of his recent experience in Spain, along with the need for Muslims to accept each other and those who are still struggling into the Deen. With usual style and humor Sh. Hamza spoke of Muslims being gunslinger Da'ees, too quick to draw their guns with the 'fastest Hadith in the West, Bukhari and Muslim' and implored Muslims to "let them eat their dog!, let them drink their vodka, a drunk Muslim is better than a sober Kafir!" (Meaning encourage others, Koreans, Russians, openly to Islam and then work on the other things.) Sh. Hamza also talked about the effects of TV and many left the session with a pact to not watch TV for 40 days. Imam Zaid led an emotional session where everyone in the room was moved to tears speaking about the Sahabah and how much they did, having nothing, while we ourselves have everything and do nothing. Sh. Yacubi spoke of all our body parts bearing witness for us on that Day. Br. Mokhtar spoke of spirituality and the heart and led everyone in the audience in a Sajdah after being overwhelmed by the power of a verse. All three programs (ISNA, MSA and MYNA) had good themes and a variety of interesting, viable and contemporary lectures. Out of all the programs recognition should really go to MSA for having one of the most innovative programs along with the pertinent cohesive theme of keeping watch over what we say, see, hear and do. Sessions included a career fair, self-defense class for sisters, late night brothers-only or sisters- only Q&A with real scholars, sessions on learning Tajweed and Seerah, frank sessions on avoiding Zina and even some alternatives to "late night mixing", including an all-night basketball tournament for brothers and a show for sisters including fashion, poetry and Islamic songs. There didn't however seem to be any bonding going on with MSA students and one was hard-pressed to find an information table for MSA with program information and current happenings of MSA. With thousands of MSA students from all over the country, the opportunity was there to network within regional areas, discuss problems and solutions among MSAs and develop plans for the future. But this didn't seem to be included as part of the program. All three programs lacked for Friday programming. While they may think that a lot of people do not attend ISNA on Friday there are quite a lot of us that do and if there are no sessions or nothing of note to attend, this sets the tone for the rest of ISNA. Jumah on Friday was a quiet affair. Qirat for prayers wasn't too extraordinary until the arrival of Imam Sudais late Sunday evening. Out of those thousands of people they couldn't find one that had beautiful recitation for the prayers before this? There were many 15 year olds that could have done an amazing job. The Imam of the Harram's recitation in the prayers really changed the feelings of the crowd. There is just something about praying in a huge crowd listening to a great recitation that moves people internally. Fajr Monday morning had quite a few more people, but it was unfortunate that this spiritual feeling couldn't have been engendered starting on Friday. Organization of the convention was certainly unparalleled, the prayer Ansar kept everyone moved up in rows ignoring disgusted sighs from those who didn't want to make room for others. The security Ansar kept the halls flowing and traffic going without seeming pushy. The information booth actually gave good information. The newsletter committee actually published funny (complete with top ten lists!) and readable "Conventioneers" and were more active than paperboys at 5 am running around giving them out. The only area of improvement to the ISNA organization was registration. Every year there is the usual stampede to register after Jumah where thousands of pre-registered attendees have to go and line up to receive their convention materials and those not registered go though the whole registration process. With an average of 5 minutes per person it takes hours for some people to register. Not to mention the fact that there was only one line for everyone with the last name  A-B  which no doubt contained perhaps half the attendees! There has to be a more efficient registration method. All the registrants receive pre-printed papers that go into the badges letting everyone know they paid. Everything else is pretty generic. Surely they can get more volunteers to help with registration during the critical times of Friday afternoon and Saturday morning, perhaps just standing in the background handing materials out. It does not take that much specialized knowledge to hand someone a program package. Also why not a have a separate area for 'problems' (i.e. missing registrations, lost nametags) so as not to hold up the line for 10 minutes while one problem is solved. The bazaar as usual was outstanding, anything you'd ever want you could obtain: Tons of the latest Islamic books, Qurans, tapes, videos, lectures, toys, puzzles, cartoons, dolls. Hijabs and Jilbabs of every rainbow color and design. Paintings, artwork, glasswork, pottery, cards. Shalwar kameez, lenghas, jewelry and gold galore, enough to outdo even Jackson Heights or Devon. The bazaar itself is reason enough to attend ISNA. The variety and selection available is simply impossible to find anywhere else. Many people stock up on Islamic books and tapes to keep themselves motivated the entire coming year. The only thing I would ask the ISNA organizers is to allow only Muslim owned businesses. One or two of the booths especially the jewelers seemed questionable. In going to the ISNA bazaar, I trust the shopkeepers since they are Muslim and feel good about supporting Muslim businesses but if they are not I'd like to know. For some reason this year's ISNA had a different 'being together' feeling. There were still the same crowds, the same bazaar and curiously a better than usual program. Still the element that defines ISNA as the place to build up Imaan points before diving into the usual school or work year seemed hollow. Perhaps it was because we were all spread out in many hotels in a rural setting away from the downtown urban life that has been a hallmark of recent previous ISNAs. Or perhaps it was because there was no occasion where everyone would travel out to a park or open space to pray all together. Or maybe it was due to the occasional overwhelming feeling of annoyance towards some of the attendees. Every year this particular segment of the ISNA population arrives to spend time in the lobbies and halls schmoozing with other guests. Sometimes they are forced by parents desperate to marry their children off to someone Muslim if nothing else. Sometimes they come with families who come to ISNA just to socialize with other families or sometimes as groups of students who come to ISNA for a good time. Usually their presence is an after-dark secret of ISNA that detractors of ISNA and others who have never attended ISNA speculate about and use an excuse not to attend. This year unprecedented was the fact that this group seemed bolder than usual and was acknowledged even by the speakers.  Zaid Shakir commented openly in a session to youth that they 'were not tired at 2 am in the lobby', but were too tired for speeches.  Another alarming trend was for the ISNA attendees to be totally open about this as the only reason they came to ISNA. Girls dressed in tight clothes, low cut tops, half sleeves, make-up and open hair didn't bother to wear even a semi-dupatta out of respect to the convention. Said girls in years previous at least wore something to avoid the disapproving looks of those who wanted to keep the Islamic spirit of the convention -- at least until dark when the Hijabs usually 'accidentally' slipped down while chatting seated in the lobby. Guys as well didn't keep their flirting covert, lounging in the lobbies regardless of the time of day or prayer times, checking out everyone who walked by. Even though it is known that there are some people who come to the convention and never attend a session, this year it was an obvious many who seemed to never enter a session hall. During the main sessions the same people were outside even during prayers not even bothering to go in. Certainly this must be a sign of the direction of our youth since year by year they seem further from Islam. Alhamdulillah it was the youth organizers themselves that recognized this problem and decided to provide some alternatives for youth at night. Far sightedness of the MSA program committee included the all night basketball tournament for brother MSA groups at a local gym, while sisters had their night of fashion, poetry, songs and style. MYNA held their usual entertainment session, using skits to mock popular American culture as well as lambaste the ISNA scene. However there were times one felt in the MYNA audience that the parodies mixed with reality, which was which? The entertainment should have been curtailed a few inches to the more conservative side in order to keep the Islamic atmosphere of the convention along with the now famous comment of a brother, 'lets git some aadab up in heeyaa!' Many people could not attend the best sessions because they were 'MYNA only' or "MSA only'. This was ridiculously unfair because there were many MSA youth that wanted to listen to certain MSA sessions and many MYNA youth who could have benefited by getting into certain MSA sessions. Despite this supposed "strictness" of who gets in, too many older "aunties and uncles" and young children got into these programs while others didn't. Sunday nights' MSA Hamza Yusuf session was a total mob scene. The crowd was left to stew outside the hall, getting more crowded, pushy and hot as time went on, building up to riot levels. One MSA merchandise hawker pressed advantage walking up and down shouting over the clamor,  'Get your MSA planners, Get your T-shirts... MSA mugs here!' This was accompanied by officials yelling "If you are not MYNA, get against the wall, get against the wall now!!!!" Many people left to avoid the insanity. Those who arrived early to obtain good seats ended up being pushed and shoved until they ended up behind even mothers and their children. MYNA students first in line were turned away and not let into the session even after their parallel MYNA session ended. Even though there were many empty seats, seats occupied by non-MSA people and even seats across which sleeping children were lying, no one was let in.   This inequality totally undermines the spirit of the Convention. Who needs to listen to Hamza Yusuf more? An older mother with her 10 and 6 year old daughters who fell asleep after the first hour or the 16 year old MYNA students who stood waiting at the door for an hour even after the session started, desperate to get through the nazi-like guarded doorways. If you can't prioritize correctly then let only MSA students and I mean _ONLY_ MSA students in or change the setup so everyone can attend whichever session they want to. If there is not enough room in one hall have a second hall that has a big screen connected. Whoever thought of having MYNA sessions only in one room and MSA sessions in one room when there are sessions that everyone at ISNA wants to attend. When will the organizers learn that certain speakers have a certain draw and their sessions need to be in the biggest room regardless? It's unrighteous that some youth go to ISNA excited and pumped up every year to be motivated and learn and are locked out of sessions that they really wish to attend. Many sessions were marred by the insensitivity of people walking in and out arbitrarily or leaving immediately after the main speaker without listening to the moderator, closing or Dua. This unaccountably rude behavior finally drew a comment from one speaker. Unfortunately it is doubtful that any way can be invented to keep this from occurring. Nonetheless, many attendees did take notes and learned much from the sessions. One lone brother raised his notebook after Sh. Hamza commented on how sisters seemed to be more studious about Islam and took notes during sessions. The brothers think they don't need notebooks, he said, like in Arabia the men say since they're men they don't need teeth. Lastly I could say something about the food, but we don't go to ISNA to eat right! :) So we should be happy with whatever we get.   Alhamdulillah I wouldn't trade this ISNA or any other for not going. While we may wish to improve on some things, the convention strives to fulfill its original goal: to bring the Muslims of North America together, to increase their Imaan and help them live their lives as better Muslims. As such, I would encourage anyone to attend. The organizers deserve the best of rewards for all their sleepless nights planning, organizing and sweating blood and tears to make this convention happen. Many do benefit from going to ISNA every year and I for one am a very different Muslim because of it.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
chachi
09/09/00 at 19:13:51
Salaam       Yes i've noticed some of this stuff you've mentioned here in conventions too . The thing that always really irritates may is as soon as the talk seems to be ending some people and i've noticed the ones with beards as well as those without react as if it's some movie theatre and they need to get out REAL fast! I mean whats the point of coming if your going to miss the conclusion? why not just get a tape and see it at home The second issue regarding flirting and stuff in conventions , i remember somebody on the isnet chat posting a article a few years ago saying the conventions were turning into meat markets , this is pretty deplorable because we seem to have a situation in some meetings where people seem to regard it as a mela (desi for a type of fair), they have no interest in the talk, but they attend to impress others with how pious they are so they can catch a guy/gal or vice versa A friend told me how in turkey the hijab issue is now linked in the minds of turkish men with a intelligent decent woman and the one without hijab who attends nightclubs as the woman the men will use but not marry... so like some bizzare insect or like a chameleon you are seeing some women attending disco's wearing hijab! have your cake and eat it too!

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
salaams2all
09/10/00 at 16:55:28
Assalamualaikum wrt wbt Ma sha Allah, you people actually had the opportunity to hear the turkish MP, prayed behind Imam Sudos, etc etc...!! BTW, does anyone know if the lectures delivered at ISNA are available on tapes for purchase? I can't even watch them from Islamicity cos my uni admins have blocked real audio stuff. :-( green with envy, salaams2all.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/11/00 at 12:19:51
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, [Green font represents Huma's writing, normal font is mine] JazakAllahu khairan Huma for the detailed review.  I hope that the MSA-national and ISNA people take some notes from it, because alot of it is very constructive criticism.   [color=green] Sh. Hamza also talked about the effects of TV and many left the session with a pact to not watch TV for 40 days.[/color] I guess this "pact" was made on the sisters' side with a group of sisters huh?  I didn't see any such pact on the brothers' side!  Giving it up for 40 days is good, but if you're gonna go back to "normalcy" after the 40 days are over, then is there any use of that pact?? I think in order to not go back to the old ways, you have to provide yourself with suitable alternatives, which would give you an incentive not to watch tv again (for amusement).  Unless you do that, you'll end up counting the days on the calendar until 40 days are over, and going back to point A afterwards. So what are some good alternatives?  I don't know.  I guess different things work for different people.  You have to figure out what works for you, and go from there.  There should be a strong commitment though, one that lasts beyond mere 40 days.   [color=green]Imam Zaid led an emotional session where everyone in the room was moved to tears speaking about the Sahabah and how much they did, having nothing, while we ourselves have everything and do nothing. Sh. Yacubi spoke of all our body parts bearing witness for us on that Day. [/color] I had not heard of Zaid Shaker and Sh. Yacubi before this convention.  Incidentally, I didn't even attend Zaid Shaker's first lecture because I didn't think he was a notable speaker!  I did attend his MSA lectures though.  Where is he from originally?  And where does he live currently? [color=green]Br. Mokhtar spoke of spirituality and the heart and led everyone in the audience in a Sajdah after being overwhelmed by the power of a verse.[/color] Ah, a highlight scene!  Something that will remain with me forever.  For those who did not attend it, picture this: Mukhtar Maghroui is giving a talk about "why we can't cry."  His speech, as always, is very soft and every word is penetrating the hearts of the audience.  He recites an ayah from the Qur'an, one that happens to have a sajdah of tilaawah in it.  Immediately, he steps back from the podium.  I, for one, have no idea what is going on, because I don't know the ayah contained a sajdah.  I watch him as he steps back from the podium as if somebody's hand has shoved him back!  He looks around, searching for someone.  Then his sights lock on an MSA-officer.  "Where's the qiblah?" He asks.  The MSA-officer is almost surprised at the question!  He points to the direction.  Br. Mukhtar falls down on the ground, making prostration in the direction that had been pointed out. The audience members - in a room that is jam packed, with people waiting in lines outside the room to get in when someone leaves the room - all get up from their chairs, find a space in the narrow aisles, and make prostration.  Everyone! In case you don't know, sajdah of tilaawah is NOT an obligation.  It is totally up to the person who recites the ayah, whether he wants to do the sajdah or not.  But IF he does, then those who are listening to his recitation must follow as well.   I've seen many speeches where people recite a sajdah of tilaawah, but never performing the sajdah immediately.  This act of Br. Mukhtar just changed the entire momentum of his talk.  His comment after the sajdah, "i feel like a hypocrite not prostrating to Allah after reading a verse like that" drove home the entire point of the lecture.  It was indeed a special moment. [color=green]With thousands of MSA students from all over the country, the opportunity was there to network within regional areas, discuss problems and solutions among MSAs and develop plans for the future. But this didn't seem to be included as part of the program.[/color] Actually, it did occur to a certain extent.  There was a session on saturday where MSA-members were divided up into zonal groups.  Everyone was introduced to each other, along with the zonal rep, and ideas were exchanged about various things ranging from local events to national events.  Emails were also exchanged there (at least in my zone).   A table with program events would have been nice, as you said, but frankly I don't think MSA is that organized at the moment!  They don't have any dates confirmed at this point, and therefore they really can't publicize anything rigorously.  At least that's the impression I got. [color=green]Jumah on Friday was a quiet affair. Qirat for prayers wasn't too extraordinary until the arrival of Imam Sudais late Sunday evening. Out of those thousands of people they couldn't find one that had beautiful recitation for the prayers before this? There were many 15 year olds that could have done an amazing job.[/color] Hmm...very demanding, aren't we? :)  How can you compare anyone in those thousands of people with great Qarees like Abdur Rahman as-Sudais - a man who is arguably the most moving Qaree in today's world (may Allah bless him)?  I thought the person who led the prayers for Maghrib and Isha on Saturday night was good enough!  And I thought [i]I[/i] was picky about these things!   Incidentally, the adhaans were also good enough.  I, as always, tried to get myself to make the adhaan.  Unfortunately I was denied.  But after hearing the other brother make the adhaan, I had nothing to complain about!   [color=green]The newsletter committee actually published funny (complete with top ten lists!) and readable "Conventioneers" and were more active than paperboys at 5 am running around giving them out.[/color] What newsletter???  I never got one :(   [color=green]Girls dressed in tight clothes, low cut tops, half sleeves, make-up and open hair didn't bother to wear even a semi-dupatta out of respect to the convention. [/color] Good, so you noticed it too huh :)  I was usually with my sister, and I kept asking her the question in frustration, "what kind of crazy people come to this convention?"  She was quick to point out some "weird" brothers to me in return, making the point that it was not only sisters that were the problem.  I have never seen so many various styles of the beard in my entire life!  Actually, I take that back. Those "things" cannot be called beards!  They're more like a bunch of black marker dots on the face!   But my argument to all of that is this: if these kinds of people come to the convention and leave slightly, even [i]slightly[/i] better than before, then the convention was a success for them.  It's all about taking it to "the next level."  (that entire album is in my head now!)  If everyone that comes to the convention and leaves the place on a higher level than what they came on, I would say that it's all worth it.   [color=green] Even though it is known that there are some people who come to the convention and never attend a session, this year it was an obvious many who seemed to never enter a session hall. [/color] I don't think ISNA can, or force, anyone to attend any session.  However, I think they should make it a point to close the bazaar during the prayers.  Too many people were found in the bazaars during the prayers, which should not happen.  You couldn't even hear the adhaan in the bazaar, and there was no way of telling that the prayers had been started if you were not keeping an eye on the clock. But as far as the sessions go, not everyone is there to attend all the sessions, and that is ok.  People wanna socialize also.  They wanna meet old friends, and make new ones.  And the only place to do that is the lobby.  The only TIME to do that is ... during some session!  Let's face it, the rush during the lunch and dinner hours doesn't give you any time to socialize.  You're too busy looking for food!  The breaks are not long enough, especially if you also wanna see the bazaar.  So some people are gonna have to miss some sessions when they wanna hang out with others. [color=green]MYNA held their usual entertainment session, using skits to mock popular American culture as well as lambaste the ISNA scene. However there were times one felt in the MYNA audience that the parodies mixed with reality, which was which? The entertainment should have been curtailed a few inches to the more conservative side in order to keep the Islamic atmosphere of the convention along with the now famous comment of a brother, 'lets git some aadab up in heeyaa!'[/color] Maybe I'm a little biased here, because the MYNA chair is from my town, but I don't think you can blame what happened there on the organizers.  The organizers can only control so much, and they can NOT control the crowd.  The first skit was as conservative as you can get!  And that turned out to be the worst part of the program, because of the response from the crowd.  I think the environment just shows how much work the local MYNA chapters have to do in order to instill an Islamic mentality in its youth.   The last skit, I agree, was a little bit off what an Islamic skit should be like.  And that is something I have already told the MYNA chair about. [color=green]Many sessions were marred by the insensitivity of people walking in and out arbitrarily or leaving immediately after the main speaker without listening to the moderator, closing or Dua. This unaccountably rude behavior finally drew a comment from one speaker. Unfortunately it is doubtful that any way can be invented to keep this from occurring.[/color] I think the statement of Naeem, "we need to get some adaab up in here" applies here too!  In fact, that statement can probably summarize 80% of all the negatives seen at ISNA!   What do you expect the MYNA-youth to be doing if their elders, their "role models", themselves lack the basica Islamic adaab? [color=green]Nonetheless, many attendees did take notes and learned much from the sessions. One lone brother raised his notebook after Sh. Hamza commented on how sisters seemed to be more studious about Islam and took notes during sessions.[/color] Hey, I was taking notes!  And I didn't raise my hand.  So there was at LEAST 3 in there (two brothers had raised hands) :)   But yes, overall, more sisters seem to be taking notes compared to brothers.  Maybe it's because we just have a better memory!! :D   [color=green]The brothers think they don't need notebooks, he said, like in Arabia the men say since they're men they don't need teeth.[/color] Oops...I take my words back :) [color=green]Lastly I could say something about the food, but we don't go to ISNA to eat right!  So we should be happy with whatever we get.[/color] We don't go to ISNA to eat, but we need to eat to survive!!!  Frankly, the food was TERRIBLY organized.  The lines were too long, the food was not nearly good enough for how much it cost, and there was not enough food for everyone!  I had to walk with my dad to McDonald's (1-mile walk) to get 20-piece chicken mcnugget meal, and bring it back to the convention center!  And we had to do this "tawaf" at least 3 times during the convention.   Indeed, it's a shame that we were eating McDonald's in an Islamic convention!  And mind you, the McDonald's was packed every time we went there ... packed with Muslims that is! [color=green]The organizers deserve the best of rewards for all their sleepless nights planning, organizing and sweating blood and tears to make this convention happen.[/color] Ditto.  May Allah reward them all.  It does take a lot of work, and as humans, they are always going to have shortcomings. [color=green]Many do benefit from going to ISNA every year and I for one am a very different Muslim because of it.[/color] "very different"?  You mean "much better," right? :) Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
bhaloo
09/11/00 at 11:41:16
slm bsm I haven't read all of Huma's review in detail, just glanced over it.  I liked your comments Arsalan, the description of Sheikh Mokthar's lecture was really cool. About the notes, you took notes huh?  Well type them up PLEASE and email them to me. :)

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
admin
09/11/00 at 12:24:41
walaikum salaam wrt, wa iyyakum arsalan, i've gotten some interesting reactions so far. organizers of course have a different view of what went on, which of course i agree with being an organizer myself. but i know that if i experienced some of these things, others did as well. No one made any formal pacts, but remember when he said "don't watch tv for 40 days, i guarantee you'll never miss it" so some people made personal pacts over it... i agree that to change behavior you have to change environmental things as well otherwise it's too easy to go back to previous old habits. Hopefully sometime during the 40 days people realize how much time they wasted with tv and how they don't need it in their lives. zaid shakir is from connecticut, hartford and was in syria for awhile studying and has now returned. When did the msa zonal groups meet? That's what I was looking for but never saw it on the program ? As for qiraat i'm sticking with my bring imam sudais on the first day opinion ;))) And i'd agree that the adhans were always good There were tons of newsletters floating around on every available free surface. There were also a whole bunch on top of the table in the middle of the elevator areas. And I had at least 3-4 ppl approach me wanting to give me one. I do know that people benefit from going to ISNA. Even if it is one person it is worth it. ISNA as a rule cannot get too strict otherwise the audience it is trying to reach will not attend, and what good is a convention where only good perfect Muslims attend eh...

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/11/00 at 13:13:40
[quote]As for qiraat i'm sticking with my bring imam sudais on the first day opinion ;))) [/quote] Hey, I'm with you on that one!!!  Heck, I would lobby strong for having a qiyaam on one of the nights while he was there :)  No, really! But I don't think ISNA has any control over when Shaikh Sudais can come.  His schedule is controlled by other, umm, entities! Wassalam.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
jannah
09/11/00 at 13:32:46
we had qiyaam at some past isna's as a spur of the moment thing.. a speaker would invite everyone to come at night... i think this would be a really good mixing alternative too.. esp if they get imam sudais, muhammad jibreel or someone awesome like that [quote] As for qiraat i'm sticking with my bring imam sudais on the first day opinion ;))) Hey, I'm with you on that one!!!  Heck, I would lobby strong for having a qiyaam on one of the nights while he was there :)  No, really! But I don't think ISNA has any control over when Shaikh Sudais can come.  His schedule is controlled by other, umm, entities! Wassalam. [/quote]

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Saleema
09/16/00 at 12:25:07
Assalamoalkum, Your really don't miss tv after not wathcing it for 40 days!! The only things that I watch most of the time now is news and documentaries, alhamdullilah!! I thought I would never be able to give up X-files but i have done so. When I have nothing to do, nothing at all and during commercials I will switch the channels and will watch other programs for a minute here and a few seconds there. But Inshallah, I will try to find an alternative to that too. I'm working on it slowly. Wassalam

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/16/00 at 12:35:34
Assalamu alaikum, I'm proud to say that I've never, [i]ever[/i] watched a single episode of X-files in my life :) Now Fresh Prince ... that's another story!!!

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
bhaloo
09/16/00 at 16:04:26
slm Well we have a lot of x-file fans on this board, Jannah and Se7en are big fans.  So am I.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Saleema
09/16/00 at 21:39:18
Assalamoalykum, Sad news:  I gave in and watched the a recorded x-files!!!!!!!! have to start from point A after x-files is over. hehe. Arsalan, I can't believe that you watch fresh prince!!! Come on, ur kidding right? wassalam oh yes, and x-files is the only thing that i will watch, no other show. Inshallah!!!!!!!!

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
se7en
09/17/00 at 10:01:26
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, I've been good so far, no tv and music since isna ;D   But some other people who made a pact with me (*cough* JANNAH *cough*) can't seem to handle it.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
bhaloo
09/17/00 at 10:31:24
slm Mashallah that's very good to hear Se7en.  That's very unfortunate about Jannah.  :(  Maybe you can offer her some other alternatives so she doesn't cave in? In a little while I'm going to watch that Hour of Power Chrisitian show to see what happened with that Muslim-Christian dialogue. :)

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/17/00 at 12:29:57
Assalamu alaikum, [quote] Arsalan, I can't believe that you watch fresh prince!!! [/quote] USED TO!!!  Not any more.  The only things that I watch now are NBA basketball and the news.  Period.  And all it took me to give up the rest was one Ramadan and constant exhortation from a very good friend. [quote]Come on, ur kidding right?[/quote] Nope :)   Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
jannah
09/17/00 at 23:36:51
*ahem* all i watched was 5 minutes passing *by* the tv see.... :)

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/18/00 at 09:46:28
I hope that excuse works on the Day of Reckoning!   Wassalamu alaikum. (sorry to make the mood serious)

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Saleema
09/18/00 at 14:28:03
assalamoalykum, Dang Arsalan, that was harsh. I would take it that way anyway if I was in her place,... which I am... I guess it hit home and that is why I am responding to something which wasn't even written about me...and you are right. Wassalam

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
se7en
09/18/00 at 16:33:27
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, Chill.  It was just something we were trying to do, it wasn't an obligation on her.  And she gets harassed enough about it in real life. :)

Re: ISNA - the good and the bad
Arsalan
09/18/00 at 18:31:36
Assalamu alaikum, My comment was meant to be nothing but a brotherly advice.  And although it looked like it was directed towards one person, it was meant to make a general point.  I realize it was harsh, but I was just trying to make a point.  I didn't intend any offense. The point is that many times we overlook things that seem to be of little consequence to us, whereas it's the little things that should worry us the most as Muslims.   Remember what Mukhtar Maghroui was talking about in his "Testimony of the Eyes" lecture?  A pond that is extremely still, only a leaf is enough to move it.  A heart that is completely pure, only a little is needed to move it.  If little things don't move you, your heart needs purification. I am advising myself here before anyone else, because I need it more than any of you. Once again, I didn't mean harm ... only good. Wassalamu alaikum.
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