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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

Christian vs. Muslim debate?
bhaloo
09/08/00 at 00:17:02
slm The Institute of Arabic and Islamic Studies      in cooperation with the Christians and Muslims for Peace, CAMP are pleased to invite you to attend a historic meeting between      o Shaykh Ahmad Kuftaro, the Grand Mufti of Syria or his            representative      o Shaykh Salah Kuftaro, Chief Director of Abu Nour Islamic            Foundation, Damascus, Syria                              and      o Dr. Robert H. Shuller, the host of the Hour of Power TV            Program, Senior pastor and founder of the Crystal            Cathedral, Garden Grove, California The Grand Mufti of Syria, Shaykh Ahmad Kuftaro or his representative will be the featured guest of Dr. Robert Shuller on Sunday September 10th, 2000 at the 9:00 am and 11:00 am Crystal Cathedral worship services. The worship service will be shown the following weekend, September 17th, 2000 on the Hour of Power TV Program in 180 counties throughout the world. Please check your local TV listings for this program. All Christians and Muslims are encouraged to attend. These two world religious leaders will share many common threads between Islam and Christianity and promote peace and understanding between the world’s two largest Religions. Location:      The Crystal Cathedral      13280 Chapman Avenue       (Corner of Chapman and Lewis Avenues)      Garden Grove, California 92640 Date: 10 September 2000 Time: 9:00 am and 11:00 am For more information:      The crystal Cathedral: (714) 971-4000      Faysal Burhan / IAIS (661) 574-6088      William Baker / CAMP (714) 971-4393 Websites: www.islamic-study.org,    www.campintl.com E-mails: Mr. Faysal Burhan / IAIS: fburhan@hughes.net Dr. William Baker / CAMP: camp@crystalcathedral.com

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Kashif
09/08/00 at 03:53:54
assalaamu alaikum Let me just put in my usual pessimistic comments. This doesn't sound much like a debate to me, but rather just a discussion. No sane Xtian evangelist would invite a muslim to a debate on his own show because of the obvious mistakes that the muslim could point out. And I'm not too happy with this promotion of peace with the Xtians. In any era when they have been in the ascendancy have they ever lived in peace with anyone? Why do we keep falling for their tricks when we have over a millennia worth of information regarding Xtians & their concept of peace? Besides the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said that the Xtians & Muslims towards the end of time would unite to fight against a common enemy (the Jews), and he used words to imply that this truce would be for the first time in history, because always at some stage in history, one part of the ummah has been involved in a jihad against the Xtians. But perhaps this occasion can be used to introduce Islam to the Xtian audience. If anyone attends, please let me know how it went. Kashif Wa Salaam

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
tree
09/08/00 at 06:25:50
Asalaamu alaikum yeah but isn't promoting peace and understanding between the religions not a way of bringing Islam to those people who know nothing of it (except negative information), and so would make them think about it without scaring them away.   I suppose it depends on how the Muslim speakers play their cards, and whether they really want to make peace or whether they want to show them the 'real' Islam. tree

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Kashif
09/08/00 at 06:32:25
Agreed.

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
tree
09/08/00 at 06:55:55
excellent.

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Kashif
09/08/00 at 07:44:33
Do you support Arsenal too? hehe

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
bhaloo
09/08/00 at 09:41:56
slm It will be televised NATIONALLY on TV, on regular TV stations, not some cable channel.  This Robert Schuller, evangelist is very big Christian figure among Christians.  Another point of interest, this Dr. Morrey (some of you know him as a Christian Missionary who invented this make believe moon god myth) lives in that area, and it wouldn't surprise me if he showed up there. I'm really curious what will happen.  Does anyone know anything about this Shaikh from Syria?

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Kashif
09/08/00 at 10:08:18
assalaamu alaikum Thats whats making me feel uneasy about the whole thing. Doesn't Syria have lots of nusayriya? And if you now look at the website, the "we are all brothers under Abraham" vibe flows thru them very strongly. hmmmm..... Kashif Wa Salaam

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Saleema
09/08/00 at 12:27:23
Assalamoaylkum, We need pesimistic people like you as well in this world Kashif, helps keep the balance. So anyway, this is what I think. I think this whole thing will be no debate as Kashif pointed out but rather a discussion and the whole thing will be in favor of the Christians. I am a little uneasy about these guys too, never heard of them. But if this program is advertised on islam.org then they might the good guys. I wish I can attend. Arshad, are you going to go? Wassalam, Saleema

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
chachi
09/08/00 at 19:08:40
salaam   hmm given that syria is ruled by a group called nusayri's who believe in reincarnation , in what way will they represent my aqeedah (the aqeedah is a belief that ALL the scholars of islam have agreed upon)?    incidentally i don't think we should show our support to a family of tyrants or a scholar who is paid by them, whose own sincerity is in doubt

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
tree
09/11/00 at 06:51:17
asalaamu alaikum I haven't heard of any of the speakers (although schuller does ring a bell), but the thing about these talks/discussions/debates is that so many of them happen all the time and sometimes you get good speakers and sometimes you get bad.  Depends on who's organising them, but unfortunatley you can't do much about them until they're over (and by then the damage will already have been done). And Kashif - I can't think why you would think I supported Arsenal??? but no, my first team's celtic, and in the Premiership, any team that's not Man U!! (although I have a soft spot for Liverpool). tree

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
haaris
09/11/00 at 08:16:25
Yeah, good point.  Administrators, I thought that we weren't allowed to swear on this board. "Arsenal"!!!  That's just going too far!!!! As if any rational person could debase themselves so badly by supporting A*****l. Salaam Haaris (a Spurs fan!  Who'd have guessed!) P.S.  For the non-Brits amongst us, I'm not being nasty to br. Kashif.  Well, nothing more than he deserves ...

Kashif's fan club
bhaloo
09/11/00 at 10:29:11
slm I see Kashif has a fan club here, hehehehe. :) No, I didn't go to the debate. :(  But insha'Allah it should be on TV next Sunday.  The show is called the Hour of Power.  Check your local TV listings.   Chachi- that's an excellent point.  They believe in reincarnation?  ??? Woah!

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
tree
09/12/00 at 07:29:03
slm Haaris - I don't think you did yourself any favours somehow by admitting you're a Spurs fan ??? !

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
haaris
09/12/00 at 09:23:58
Salaam Hey, Tree, not ALL Spurs fans are Jewish!!  I'm a Spurs fan because of family history (at least three generations of Spurs fans in my family and not one of them Jewish): if N17 were a sovereign state, I'd be elegible to play (if ability were disregarded of course!!) for it. Being a Celtic fan doesn't make you (God forbid) a Catholic does it??

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
bhaloo
09/12/00 at 09:56:34
slm One thing I've noticed about soccer is that the officials have a huge impact on the outcome of a game.  The games are usually very low scoring and decided by one goal.  A penalty kick in the box, or a red card, both determined by a referee make the difference in the game.  Its unfortunate.

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
tree
09/12/00 at 10:44:35
slm Rules, rules, rules: when referring to the 'beautiful game' you are not allowed to call it "soccer" but use the correct term, ie, "FOOTBALL". Bhaloo - You obviously haven't watched much football to be able to say what you have...so I'm not even going to entertain your argument (;)) Haaris -         Hey, Tree, not ALL Spurs fans are Jewish!!  I'm a Spurs fan because of family history (at least three generations of Spurs         fans in my family and not one of them Jewish): if N17 were a sovereign state, I'd be elegible to play (if ability were         disregarded of course!!) for it. Still not doing yourself any favours! :) And no I'm not a Catholic (maybe in a former life though - oooo), I just know what's good and what's not :) tree

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
haaris
09/13/00 at 06:10:45
Tree, we agree on something: football is football or "the beautiful game", not "soccer". It seems we also agree on something else: football teams with glorious histories but very sub-standard presents are the ones to support. Arshad (or is it Bhaloo?  I never know which); yes, referees do have an influence on the game (we call it human participation) in the same way that "time out"s and endless video replays have an effect on many US sports.  Since when have the "last ten seconds" of an NBA match ever taken anywhere near ten seconds?

Update of the conference
bhaloo
09/14/00 at 00:24:02
slm Here is the report on the Crystal Cathedral function: A historical and unprecedented event took place at the Crystal Cathedral on September 10, 2000. For the first time two preeminent leaders of Islam and Christianity met to share the common ground of their two Faiths, which represent more than one half the world population. Dr. Robert Schuller, founder of the Crystal Cathedral and Pastor of the Hour of Power worldwide TV program welcomed Sheik Salah Kuftaro, Chief Director of the Abu Nour Islamic Foundation and the son of Sheik Ahmad Kuftaro, the Grand Mufti of Syria on both his Sunday televised services. Sheik Salah Kuftaro appeared on both the 9:30 and 11:00 services and told the 3000 Christian/Muslim/Jewish congregation, including a variety of religious leaders: “Islam is not a new religion, but that which completes the Religions of Christ, Moses and Abraham. The fountain of these religions is Almighty Allah.” He added that Prophet Muhammad said: “We the Prophets of God are brothers, and the likeness of me and the prophets before me is like that of a beautiful building with one stone of it missing. I am the complete and final stone of this building.” Sheik Salah said: “We, Muslims and Christians are in one camp.” Regarding the Grand Mufti of Syria, Sheik Ahmad Kuftaro, Dr. Shuller remarked: “I met the Pope on several occasions. I have never met a man of such spirituality and wisdom as that of your father.” Dr. Schuller then said: “Your father told me that the 17 million population of Syria are all Christians. Could you elaborate on that?” Sheik Salah said: “My father is absolutely correct. A Muslim cannot be a true Muslim if he or she does not believe in the Prophet hood of Jesus, Moses, or any prophet of God. We Muslims honor, reverence, and are inspired by Jesus, Moses, Abraham, as much as by Muhammad, and the rest of the prophets of God.” When Dr. Shuller asked his guest, “Why is it that Muslims kill Christians and Christians kill Muslims?” Sheik Salah said: “Heavenly Religions are like the rain. When the rain first comes it is clean and pure, but when it reaches people, we (people) pollute it. In Islam, we learn that no one person shall be killed for no reason, and he recited the Verse: if any one killed a person, it would be as if he kills the whole people, and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole people.” He further said: “A Muslim must treat a Christian or a Jew with respect and kindness, which he would treat a Muslim.” He related that Prophet Muhammad, before he ate his meal, asked whether or not his Jewish neighbor had received a portion of the food. If not he would not eat.” Sheik Salah said: “A building without maintenance deteriorates fast, especially when it is abused. Likewise, the building of our faiths gets abused. We the clergymen have the duty to ensure that this building is pure, beautiful and well maintained.” Dr. Schuller emphasized the next important gathering of Christian and Muslims will be on October 6th and 7th at the third Annual CAMP Conference for Peace and Understanding on the Crystal Cathedral Campus. This blessed and unprecedented television Program will be aired beginning this Sunday 17 September 2000. Check your local listing for the “Hour of Power Program.” For the third Annual CAMP Conference for Peace and Understanding on the Crystal Cathedral Campus, please contact: Websites: www.islamic-study.org,    www.campintl.com

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
chachi
09/14/00 at 16:38:45
hmm it's interesting that this syrian sheikh wasn't present when the rabbi of the netorai karta group, a jewish orthodox group which is genuinely pro-peace and believes in the god of abraham as well had acid thrown in his face by zionist extremists. It is strange that he should be supporting secular/kaffir groups in palestine, our duty surely is to protect the yahood from the greater sin of atheism, we do not desire that anybody should exist in hell forever. Thus it is better for them to believe in the torah corrupted as it may now be . Also can the shiekh elaborate on the term 'cleric'. All of our pious predecessors have been called scholars and qadi's (judges) where did these 'clerics' come from? it's somewhat pointless having 'talks' with x-tians  for a feel good factor , concrete measures are needed. we as muslims invite the pope and however many bishops he desires to a LIVE debate in front of the whole world , and in every language to discuss whether 1)isa the son of maryam (may peace be upon them) is really the son of god OR the Son of god as they claim, a claim which makes the yahoodi's call them polytheists 2) there was a prophecy for 2 different individuals to appear 1) a messiah and 2) a prophet from the tribes of kedar and why the church ignores this question? 3)the systematic genocide and destruction of large parts of the world and it's nations was the direct result of the church abandoning the sharia of god In addition to this we muslims must ask ourselves some serious questions, like whether the churches themselves are monotheist organizations. I refer in particular to Ahmad Thompsons's book 'For Christs sake', since it appears that all the genuine monotheist christians have ceased to exist eg the paulicians. and even the cathars of france are now gone (their descendents oddly enough can be identified by a genetic trait, they have a high percentage of people with grey eyes!)

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
chachi
09/14/00 at 16:46:18
Football...*s* you guys don't find anything strange about how all these guys behave after they've scored a goal...? ...lol...no comment personally i'll stick to cricket! a man's game! yeah i was in this turkish takeaway recently and this anglo walked in..goes to counter and says 'so what do you thinks happening with Galatasaray?..turkish bloke looks blank...anglo ..'Galatasaray you know the turkish football club'?...turkish bloke...'footboll? i no interested in football'...*lol* man i'm gonna buy my donner's from there every time i go down!

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Saleema
09/16/00 at 21:28:47
Assalamoalykum, there is a sect of christianity who call themselves the Unitarians. They don't believe in the Trinity and don't believe that Isa (may peace be upon him) was God or the son of god. the other christians abhor them and don't consider them christians. Wassalam

Re: Christian vs. Muslim debate?
Arsalan
09/17/00 at 12:44:02
Assalamu alaikum, So, Arshad, how was the debate?  Did you watch it?
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