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The dumb things sisters say....
lightningatnite
09/25/00 at 17:58:06
and the dumb things guys say to impress them... :) Asalamualaikum, Peace be with you, Ok, since I have two sisters, whose names I won't mention but whose initials are JANNAH. and SE7EN. I have heard alot of dumb things... DSL#1: ( dumb sister line) Jannah walks into my room yesterday and picks up this huge spanish sword I bought a while ago, and proceeds to almost gash a hole in my wall. Then she says "Wow, you've got to be careful, you could really kill someone with this thing!" :) DBL#1: (look her in the eyes) "Girl, you have got to get out more", "cause you'd make this world a more beautiful place." :) DSL#2: Se7en was in my car, she innocently says "What does that switch do?"...I say "Thats the turbo-charger" and then I flip on the fog lights. She says "Wow, really?" :) DBL#2: (I thought of this one in the shower) "Listen girl, you so fine, I'd buy you shampoo for 'FINE' hair even though yours is normal." :) ....more to come...

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
se7en
09/25/00 at 18:22:50
WHAT! What about: (Holding a tube of mascara) "Wow cool, you use this thing to write with?" or (Walking past a huuuuuge gold jewelry set in Jackson Heights, worth at least a couple thou) "Woah, that must cost like one hundred dollars!" Heheh.. and speaking of dumb brother lines (this happened to me in nyc) (weird guy with fob accent selling something): "Come, come, buy something...you're arab yes?" "No." "Yes, you are Arab, I know." "No, I'm not Arab." "Yes, you Arab, I know, don't worry." "I'm not Arab." "Yes, yes, I know, don't worry, you are Arab." "I'm *not* Arab." (Turning to my brother) "Tell him I'm not Arab!" My brother:  "She's not Arab." "I know she is Arab, don't worry, yes, yes, she is Arab." Ahhh, he kept saying that, even when we were walking away he was like, "yes, I know, she is arab" crazy brother dorks. :)

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
bhaloo
09/25/00 at 16:10:51
slm Habibi, you've returned to the board :)  That Spanish sword sounds really cool.  I'm sure you have some really cool adventures to share with us about your journey. Wow, those were some, ummmm, "interesting" discussions you had with your sisters.  ;)

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
09/25/00 at 20:37:05
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, LightningAtNite: Glad to meet you bro.   So tell us something about yourself besides who your siblings are!

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
dhikr
09/25/00 at 22:06:41
assalaamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabaraktuh lightningatnite, u wanna kno sommore dumb things jannah and se7en have said? i can hoook u up :) jk jk, noo, se7en and jannah are excellent sisters mashallah, and be careful, they got alooooot of scoop on u hehe:) wasalaaam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
bhaloo
09/25/00 at 23:05:22
slm Lighningatnite (thunder by day) is a good brother alhumdullilah and is only concerned for the well being of his sisters.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
jannah
09/25/00 at 23:41:24
wlm, dhikr must i remind you that you had some fingers down too :))) [quote]assalaamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabaraktuh lightningatnite, u wanna kno sommore dumb things jannah and se7en have said? i can hoook u up :) jk jk, noo, se7en and jannah are excellent sisters mashallah, and be careful, they got alooooot of scoop on u hehe:) wasalaaam[/quote]

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
se7en
09/26/00 at 15:43:45
"well, I'm sorry I'm not articulationable!" -lightningatnite

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
09/26/00 at 00:13:15
Umm ... and you 3 live in ONE house?? Under ONE roof? Imagine that!   Family Circuis, anyone? :) Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
lightningatnite
09/26/00 at 01:10:37
se7en, hey, ok? dyslexic I am :) Nice to meet you brother Arsalan :) hmm...not much to say about me, I'm a really simple guy. I am absolutely crazy mad about Rumi, his insight, he really awakens your heart. I'm looking for a job, hope to graduate in May inshaAllah. Alhamdulillah, I was in Spain this summer with Sheikh Hamza on ar-Rihla, got to visit Alhambra and the Great Mosque of Cordoba, it was a profound experience. Ok, before se7en brings this up, I'll tell it to you straight...once upon a time I used to like this singer, I think her name was jewel or something like that. Well, when we were in India Jannah had this Entertainment magazine with a pic of jewel in it, so she showed it to my cousins and told them about my 'interest'...oh man I was gonna kill her!..they never left me alone after that they'd ask me how 'zewel' was doing, if we were engaged, I mean this is some remote village in rural India, we didn't even have running water, and my aunts were like 'toh, beta, zewel kesa he?' DBL#3 "Girl, if you were a surah, I'd memorize you." :) Please forgive me, I know we should be more serious. I'd like to share some of the notes I took in Spain if anyone's interested...

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
09/26/00 at 10:16:19
Assalamu alaikum, [quote]I'd like to share some of the notes I took in Spain if anyone's interested...[/quote] Are you kidding?  Yes, yes, yes!!! And about Jewel, I already figured that from your web site :) Wassalam.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
bhaloo
09/26/00 at 11:14:21
slm Yes, I'd love to see the notes.  Alhumdullilah its nice to hear that there is at least ONE person in Albany who is willing to share their notes with others and not be selfish. :)

The Rihla
AbuKhaled
09/29/00 at 12:39:40
Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem. Dear Sidi lightningatnite, Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah. Bi'ithnillah you were privileged to be at the Rihla too. I pray that the many and multifarious incredible experiences and incidents which you must have witnessed and/or been a part of stay with you till we all return to Allah ta'ala. Life has a way of diminishing such life-altering experiences as time creates the distance between today and the memory. So revisit them often, for they will hold you in good stead, insha'Allah. The presence of such incredible Shuyukh could surely have penetrated even the hardest of hearts, for Islam verily has never been embodied in books (with the exception of Al-Furqan), but in those who exemplify the example of our beloved and Noble Nabi (saw), and if that does not touch you then what will? Nothing can prepare you for that which you have never experienced of what Islam can be like if one truly possesses muhabba [love] for him (saw), without which exactly what is accomplishable? And with the absence of which so much is explainable. It is nothing short of overwhelming to anyone except those whose hearts remain soiled by distance to this Deen. I would like to make the humble request that if do you intend to share your notes that I might too be allowed to benefit with your permission, else who knows what the loss might entail, given who such knowledge was related to you by. No gathering where such teachers are present could possibly have been devoid of baraka, and the knowledge and teaching were nothing short of the highest calibre. How was the awe-inspiring and apparently endless repository of Sacred Knowledge that is Sheikh Muhammad Al-Ya'qubi? Subhan'Allah, to learn from him alone would have made the trip worthwhile. Truly, how many of us get the opportunity to sit at the feet of those who are the inheritors of the Prophets (aas), and just learn. And how different is it to anything we have ever learnt prior to that? Just to pray behind someone like that makes one tremble, in the realisation that what one is feeling within is so great, and so how must it have been for the Sahaba (raa) when they stood in rank, line upon line, behind he (saw) who was the greatest of creation. Subhan'Allah. Allah ta'ala alone knows who are the best in our times, but how far are the best of today from the best of ever? Wal-iyadhubillah. We read ahadith about Messenger of Allah ta'ala (saw), and we build up a mental picture of what he (saw) must have been like. But words and pictures have never been enough in the midst of presence and witnessing. Islam has always, and will always, be handed down through example, and so we must NEVER underestimate the significance of suhba [accompaniment]. No scholar ever accomplishes scholarship without this, and even that which is less than that cannot be as effective in its absence. This is a Deen of isnad, and that isnad also includes individuals who embody- as best as can be given our limitations and distance to those days of the best of generations- and exemplify to the extent possible what it means to follow in the footsteps of our Nabi (saw). For if we are to approach closeness to Allah ta'ala , then can it be by anyway other than following the way of he (saw) who was most beloved to Him (awj), and he (saw) who walked the message that Al Qur'an Al-Kareem brought. To be like him (saw) is to be like the one whom Allah ta'ala perfected with the most perfected of states. So can we do that without examples who can show us how to follow this Sunnah? Was it ever done any other way? I hope no one translates what I am saying to mean that we follow others other than Rasul'Allah (saw), and if they do then that surely is a failing on my part in this exposition, astaghfiruallah. The Sunnah was never a dry example taken by words on paper. What are the hadith other than first hand accounts? Of course mediums like paper, tapes, etc., have their place, but nothing connects and affects like the medium from insaan to insaan, wallahu a'lam. Which of the luminaries of this Ummah- to name but a few Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas (ra), Sufyan al-Thawri (ra), Waki' (ra), Imam Shafi'i (ra), ibn Hajar Asqalani (ra), Ibn al-Jawzi (ra), Ibn Hisham (ra), Al Qurtubi (ra), Imam Fairoz Al-Abadi (ra), etc.- ever learned this Sacred Knowledge from other than direct living examples of it (and that does not imply perfection in those people)? Who amongst them took knowledge from books alone, as is becoming the trend in these days of ours? That is not to say books contain no benefit, far from it, they document the treasure that is knowledge. But what we are addressing here is life, breath, a heart beat. Books, tapes, videos, websites, etc., are an indirect source for your senses. First hand presence brings alive those senses in a way more acute and experiential than any indirect source, and awakens what one never even knew was dormant up till that point. It is like not being able to see round a corner. You have to take the step to be able to see. It is safe to say, wallahu ta'ala a'lam, that up until that point you may never know what might be, or what (you) could be, in terms of being the abd' of Allah ta'ala that is most pleasing to Him (awj). So never devoid yourself of the possibility of growth by limiting yourself to the approach you've always taken thus far. Too many of us box oursleves into the mentality of sectarian thinking, a'uzubillah. That which you learn directly from human to human is always greater than that which you learn indirectly from human to human, and its value is priceless. Tell me otherwise Sidi, that the Rihla does not pay testament to the truth of this. It is difficult to articulate what one undergoes at such things like a Rihla, but one thing is for sure. Until you experience it you will never know, and once you do, you will never be the same, only better insha'Allah, and closer in your practice of Islam to what one should be, and every tawfeeq is by Allah ta'ala alone, wallahu musta'an. From then, if you benefited from the experience in the way it should have benefited you, you will resent anything that comes between you and your road to the akhira. Of course we are all fallible, and the struggle does not disappear. But accompanying it there arrives a newfound sense of appreciation, and the cognisance of exactly what is required to be all that one can be, as a Muslim. Please relate to the brothers and sisters the jaw-dropping and mind-blowing incident about the drought that afflicted the place where you were. If one does not double-take upon hearing such an anecdote then truly one does not appreciate the maqam of such individuals, may Allah (awj) continue to make them a source for the enrichment and nourishment of this Ummah, insha'Allah. Ma'assalam, Abu Khaled

Shaykh Hamza...
lightningatnite
10/01/00 at 04:00:34
Subhanallah, brother Abu Khaled, I cannot speak after that...How about if I quote something I wrote in a letter?: "Al-Andalaus is something I cannot articulate. Its like trying to bottle lightning" My body may have traveled to many cities, and yet my heart felt nothing, seen things that looked better in the brochure.  Or I may have stayed at home and reflected on the Qur'an, and wet its pages with tears, and glimpsed amazing sights, experienced lifetimes in moments. One interesting thing you'll notice is when you see people with really high Iman, they don't spend much time talking of their travels or daily experiences because they realize how low those things are in the scheme of things. It is the travels of the heart that we should talk about. Having said that, I'm nowhere near that level, so I'll tell you about two experiences that are etched in my mind. The first was about a week into the Rihla, when I'd settled in my tent out in the Spanish countryside, just before I was about to sleep, I heard some noise outside.  I went out, and there were a few brothers out there listening to sheikh Hamza, who was pointing at the stars. I looked up and saw the most beautiful night sky I'd ever seen.  I joined the others, and listened to the most beautiful words I'd ever heard.  Shaykh Hamza was telling a story: "You know, the Greeks once went to the Oracle of Delphi, and asked who the wisest man of all was, and the Oracle said "Socrates." So they set out in search of Socrates.  When they found him and told him what the Oracle had said, he was shocked, and he said 'I don't know anything! How can that be me?'" "So, Socrates set out to find these masters that he knew where wiser then him.  He found the master of alchemy, and started asking him questions, 'Do you know this?','Why does this happen?', and he slowly began to realize that the 'master of alchemy' had no idea what he was talking about! ...and so he went to the mathmatician, the poet, the soothsayer...asked them questions...they didn't really, really know why things were either. Finally, Socrates realized the he was the only one who knew that he did not really know, and this made him wisest of them all." I was thinking, man Shaykh Hamza, you saw THAT in the stars?!  I'll tell you, I didn't really care what shaykh Hamza was saying, it was just being in Spain, for the sake of Allah, in the land of the ancient Muslims, remembering Allah under a glorious night sky, breathing the same air as Ibn Sina, the cool night air. Being with Shaykh Hamza, opening up our eyes for the first time, watching these stars rise and set behind the silouhette of moutains all around us, the sound of silence. The silence of some little men, realizing how little they really are, staring out into Allah's grand universe.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Learner
10/01/00 at 06:45:48
Assalaamu alaikum Subhanallah, brother Abu Khaled I'm speechless. So LightningAtNight when will you share some of that wisdom with us? Wassalaam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
bhaloo
10/01/00 at 10:51:38
slm Brother Lightning, what was the 2nd experience etched in your mind?  If you don't mind sharing.
NS

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
chachi
10/06/00 at 20:54:09
Salaam lightning zewel kaysee heh beta...*lol* akhi when i went to pakistan they laughed at our eating fish and chips...they thought we must be really poor in england if we thought potatoes were a great dish . Then they found out about the drinking water being recycled from sewage and wow...the insults! Mind you i had a laugh when i saw what they used as balloons...heh heh heh So whens the next trip to al-andalus? My favourite story about socrates is when a student said to him 'i want to learn like you' ...socrates took him to a pool and made him wade in deeper and deeper and then he grabbed him and pulled him underwater until he nearly drowned and said when you can struggle as much for knowledge as you did for life you'll understand how much i struggle for knowledge..

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/07/00 at 01:56:20
Assalamaolykum, My sister is going through depression right now.  :)   She says that her teacher told the class about how a lot of the writers of the old days that they sudy, including philosophers, scientists, etc, were gay and she named socrates as one among many others. My sister is really angry and wants to know if there were *any* normal intelligent guys out there before islam. So my question is, was socrates really gay? My sister used to enjoy reading about all those men from the past but she doesn't anymore. She is *very* gay phobic. Wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
lightningatnite
10/07/00 at 11:56:41
Salam, Sister Saleema, I'd just tell your sister to be careful about what she believes.  Today they are rewriting history as we speak. The people with political influence can change the the things we study and what we learn from high school all the way up to books at barnes and noble.  History is written by the victors. I saw history rewritten when Operation Tailwind, when the US gassed its own defectors in Vietnam, was exposed on CNN.  The next day, the reporter was fired, everything retracted, and an apology issued. The truth is there are homo 'people' emerging all over in today's society, including in academia, and what better thesis to write then 'Socrates was a homo'.  Do you realize that there isn't even 1 word existant today that Socrates wrote...not 1! And you're telling me they think he was a homo...come on, you have to question things, question authority, I know you're good at that :) Wassalam, Faisal

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
se7en
10/07/00 at 12:20:49
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, Sr. Saleema, about the term "gay-phobic"... phobia is an irrational fear of something, and our fear of homosexuality is far from irrational.  Also using a term like gay just desensitizes us to the gravity of this matter, how wrong it is, and makes it sound like something silly and trivial.  I always say homosexual when speaking about these people, and I never use the term phobia.   LightningAtNite is right (at least this once), about how we have to question when we read things like that.  People manipulate history fit whatever agenda they're trying to serve. "There is an ancient Indian saying, that something lives only as long as the last person who remembers it. My people have come to trust memory over history. Memory, like fire, is radiant and immutable, while history serves only those who seek to control it, those who would douse the flame of memory in order to put out the dangerous fire of truth. Beware these men, for they are dangerous themselves and unwise. Their false history is written in the blood of those who might remember and of those who seek the truth." wasalaam.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
jawadio
10/07/00 at 13:27:49
[quote]Assalamaolykum, My sister is going through depression right now.  :)   She says that her taacher told the class about how a lot of the writers of the old days that they sudy, including philosophers, scientists, etc, were gay and she named socrates as one among many others. My sister is really angry and wants to know if there were *any* normal intelligent guys out there before islam. So my question is, was socrates really gay? My sister used to enjoy reading about all those men from the past but she doesn't anymore. She is *very* gay phobic. Wassalam[/quote] Salam... This is absolutely ridiculous.  The whole gay campaign has sought to include anyone of any note in the past as part of their horrible way of life - a way of life that Allah curses in the Qur'an in the strongest terms.   A lot of this comes from the (mis)understanding of love.  Most people can not conciece of a love that is not related to one's sexual appetite.  This is a really limited way of looking at human emotions.  What has happened is that manifestations of love that are non-sexual have been "deconstructed" into something else.  To give but one example, one would say, "There is a love for parents," but the modern western post-freudian would say that it's not love at all, but fear and resentment to your father. We, as Muslims, though experience love at all levels and each one of them has a different manifestation.  We have the love for our brothers and sisters.  It's highest manifestation is that literally a Muslim would give their life to defend other Muslims that they don't even know.  The Prophet of Allah said, "None of you believes until he LOVES for his brother what he loves for himself."  We have love for the Prophet of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) which has the highest manifestation in FOLLOWING his sunnah (read the Shifa of Qadi Iyad for this).  We have the love for Allah, which has it's manifestation as following the sunnah of the Prophet of Allah as well (Qul in kuntum tuhibbun Allaha fatibi`uni, yuhbibuk Allah wa yaghfir lakum dhunubukum - say: if you LOVE Allah, then follow me and Allah will love you and forgive your sins).  There is also blameworthy love, like love of the dunya, love of the nafs, etc.  Lastly, we have love for our spouse(s - for brothers -), which is the only one that has a sexual manifestation to it.   Modern western culture will construe any form of love between two people of the same gender as being "gay."  For example, when I did Hajj this year, while we were at Arafah, a brother rested his head on my lap the whole day.  Now if you do this on your college campus - two men sitting under a tree and one resting his head on the lap the other - EVERYONE will assume that these two are gay.  Similarly, if one kisses their brother on the cheek (a sunnah), holds their brothers hand as they walk (a sunnah), hugs them when they greet each other (a sunnah), and many other aspects of non-Western culture are looked at, people (ie modern westerners) will construe it as being "gay." Now, to turn to Socrates, what he was talking about, and what people are accusing him of being gay for, is his notion of Platonic love.  Socrates' works come down to us from Plato and it is often difficult to tell when Socrates of Plato was speaking.  In the end, the concept is called, "Platonic love," because it is a non-sexual love, a love that simply does NOT have any kind of sexual manifestation to it.  So Socrates can have a tremendous amount of "Platonic love" for his students, for example. To a Muslim, this idea is not a problem AT ALL because in our daily lives we have this.  But for a modern lost westerner, this is really problematic.  They can not understand how two men (or two women, for that matter) can love each other for the sake of Allah without their being some sick and twisted act accompanying it.  But for the Muslim, this form of love is not just an idea, but really a lived experience. In the end, I wouldn't take what that teacher said seriously because 1) our deen doesn't relate back to Socrate, and 2) those making the claim are horribly mistaken.  They say the same about Alexander the Great (I even heard one queer speaker on campus say that Alexander died of AIDS).  What they are trying to do is legitimate their sick and twisted lifestyle by broadcasting it onto major figures of Western civilization.  In the end, if Socrates, or Alexander, or whoever, were actually gay, it makes no difference whatsoever, given that Allah ta`ala has already condemned such an abomination in the Torah, the Injil, and the Qur'an. Wa Allahu `alim. Wa salam, Jawad.
NS

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/07/00 at 17:40:12
Assalamoalykum, Thank you everyone. I will tell my sister inshallah. And se7en, thank you for pointing out why its better to abstain from using the word gay phobia. I am NOT using it from now on. Speaking on questioning the authority. I am giving a speech against Israel at campus. Pray for me. There is only one person who will be on my side from among the non-Muslims, my Speech professor. I am kind of nervous and I feel very ashamed of myself for that. May Allah give me strenght. Wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
chachi
10/07/00 at 21:10:46
Salaam      First of all there's no such thing as a homosexual , it's all a question of making a choice. For instance in India there is a certain tribe some of whose members have sex (if thats possible with tree's!) nobody is going to seriously suggest that it's genetic! Secondly what you have now is a whole culture of trying to make everybody into a homosexual/sodomite eg abraham lincoln is now called a homosexual because he shared a bed with another guy when he rented a room..obviously these guys have never seen Laurel and Hardy! People in earlier times didn't even think that was sexual in any way Thirdly yes the romans AND the greeks have been obsessed with sodomy , and have had a hatred of the female body...which makes their attacks against muslims as being anti-female all the more weird ..maybe that explains why they are so obsessed with monogamy as a theory? Fourthly whether Socrates was or wasn't a sodomite is irrelevant because i treat him just like somebody who invents a medicine, i respect his technique but not him as a moral figure

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/07/00 at 22:38:57
Salam, What, tell me again. There's a tribe in India who have sex with trees?????????????? Wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
chachi
10/08/00 at 20:20:10
yes the Murias and the Marias of Bastar see 'Hill Marias of Bstar' by Grigson

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/08/00 at 22:02:43
Salam be on you bro. and no thank you. I don't want to see any such books. that's enough to scare me. man... where are the men's natural instincts??????????? wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
lightningatnite
10/08/00 at 23:19:19
salam, [quote]man... where are the men's natural instincts??[/quote] haha, saleema just go to the islamica messageboard ... :) Thanks br. jawad, I never thought about it from that perspective...if we used the modern definition of love as holding hands and really caring for your brother they'd label half the men in the Muslim world homosexual. Wahid, zewel bohoaat acha he :) In case you were wondering, zewel was one of the only musicians who sang about God and she was actually very spiritual/religious when I was little, and hence the 'interest'. Also she was very sweet and kind, and I know I'm making some people sick so I'll stop :) Wassalam.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
10/09/00 at 00:26:15
[quote]Also she was very sweet and kind, and I know I'm making some people sick so I'll stop :) [/quote]T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U !!!!! ;)

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
proudtobemuslim
10/09/00 at 07:31:05
Assalam-u-Alaikum, I'm baaaack!  Did anyone miss me?  guess not... speaking of missing people, chachi where ya been? I hadn'st seen a post from you until very recently. And know for the dumb things brothers say... heres a poem i made up: lightningatnite thunder by day is the storm really that far away? if u dont get it refers to the time between hearing the thuinder and seeing the lightning as a way to determine how far away a storm is... Wassalam-u-Alaikum Uzer

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
bhaloo
10/09/00 at 11:47:27
slm Ahhhh man, I missed a good discussion here.  I was kind of busy, had to address some relatives about the death of another relative and some other things came up. A sister contacted me recently, about some Muslim guy she knows that says he is a homosexual, and how he has twisted words around and thinks the hadiths that talk about this are weak, etc.  There is a lot more to this story, and I'll ask her again if I can relate the full story here.  Insha'Allah any naseeah that can be offered would help them.  I sent her what Sheikh Munajidd said about homosexuals, but this sort of issue isn't something I come across.
NS

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/09/00 at 19:01:05
Assalamoalykum, Hey sher dil sahab,I was wondering where you dissapered to. :)  Love your poem. so you got some poetry talent, eh? how's college? wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
proudtobemuslim
10/10/00 at 07:25:41
Assalam-u-Alaikum, Talent?  Ya, its kinda like i never knew i had it in me... i think i thought of that one in the shower or while i was trying to get some sleep or something. Anyway, ya ive been away due to that inevitable day i always dreaded... moving into college life here in the "Land of the Pure": Pakistan.  If you're wondering, the lucky place is Aga Khan University, Karachi... medical in fact.  Anyways, so far so good... some things are better than i expected while others are not as good.  Just make dua for me guys! Wassalam-u-Alaikum Uzer

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
jannah
10/11/00 at 00:51:50
Nazia, what an interesting question :) I think all of us have thought of that when things get too "rough" or just frustrated over living in a "kaffir" country. However, this last time I went back home I realized there was no way I could live there. Life is truly oppressive or should I say very different there for women. I guess it's like any place, to affect any change you have to do it from within, and if i was to move back there I wouldn't be "within" and to do dawah or anything else would be near impossible.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
nadeem
10/11/00 at 12:54:58
salaam. talkin about motherlands..im off thier soo too for 6 months (!)..will i survive in islamabad?? Inshallah gonna keep myself busy with hardcore dawah knowledge meet ulema. make dua ya'll innit..

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/12/00 at 09:07:10
Assalamoalykum, hardcore dawah, yeah... that's what i did in Pakistan when I went. after a while i gave up... People laughed at me... called me a "modern" muslim coming from the US trying to tell them what Islam is really all about when I myself needed some hard core dawah. Boy did I get it! I cried and came back feeling really bad and disgusted at the people of "pakiza land." wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Zara
10/25/00 at 08:29:04
Salaams, I went to Pakistan during the summer for a month - it was a bit hot and there was not much to. I soon found out what a good idea it was to take books with me.The weather in Pakistan will be much more pleasant now, for us brits. I tried to practice dawaah, it didn't have much effect.  However I did improve my knowledge on some aspects of Islam. Anyways good luck with the dawaah because you are going to need it... Wasalaam Zara

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
proudtobemuslim
10/25/00 at 09:03:00
Assalam-u-Alaikum, How did you guys really perform dawah?  I mean just one-to-one or did you have groups or something? Over here there is something called the Tableeghi jama'at who seem do be doing a lot of work on dawah throughout the world.  Does anybody know anything about them that I should know?  Should I join? Wassalam-u-Alaikum Uzer

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
destined786
10/25/00 at 17:44:21
salaam, Tableeghi jama'at is not only in Pakistan, it's everywhere.  It's just a group of people calling others to Islam.  We have many tableeghi guys where I live.   w/salaam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/25/00 at 20:36:48
Assalamoalykum, Brother Uzer, you dont need to join them, they make you join them whether you want to or not. Have you been approached by one? They come knocking on our door at 11:00 at night. Not the best manners I'd say. But then again, I guess not everyone is the same and I shouldn't generalize. We have them coming all over from pakistan, bangladesh and India. and then we have a houston based dawah tablighi jamat too. That reminds of a friend's brother. He wears a turban, carries a tasbeeh, doesn't say salam to a sister anymore and oh yeah wears the long white dress. He says this will attract non-Muslims to him and he will do some dawah. He scares people away actually, the non-Muslims of course. Prevented the sisters from praying Jummah at school, saying they don't have to pray, they should go home and pray, but by that time, the zuhar time for prayer is over. But the sisters fought back and came anyway. He won't trim his beard, thinks its against the sunnah of the prophet, his mentor in the tablighi jamat said that it is haram to do so. He doesn't even have a beard, he has two patches and its long and curly and looks nasty. anyway, i'm suspicious of tablighi jamat.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
destined786
10/26/00 at 00:27:37
Imam Ghazzali (RA) says, "know that the key to total bliss (saadah) lies in following the Sunnah and in emulating the life of Rasulullah (S.A.W) in ALL that issues from him, and in ALL his doings even if it concerns the manner of his eating, rising, sleeping, and speaking. I do say this in relation to rituals in worship ONLY because there is no way neglecting the Sunnah reported of him in such matters - but what I say INCLUDES EVERY ASPECT of his daily life". Regarding the brother in Houston who wears a turban, long white dress (thawb), not trimming his beard.  Well, he is trying to follow the sunnah of our Holy Prophet salaam.  I say more power to him.  There is so much hekmah (wisdom) in every sunnah of Prophet Muhammad saw. But I don't agree with not letting the sisters pray jumuah.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
10/26/00 at 10:54:34
Assalamu alaikum, Proud, Tableeghi jamaa'at is doing a lot of good work in Pakistan.  I have great respect for their efforts and sacrifices.  In fact, I think it's safe to say that the Tableeghi Jamaa'at has been the most successful Islamic "movement" in Pakistan, as far as reforming the masses is concerned.   HOWEVER (a la Asim :)), I would not advance myself and join them.  I think they have a lot of problems.  Their methodology is unwise.  Their sources are inauthentic.  Their scholars are not "scholars" (however sincere and pious they may be ... they're not ulemaa al-Deen). I'm sure there must be several groups in your Medical college, and that's probably why you asked this question. If you wanna join anything, join Jamaat-e-Islaami.  They have the correct methodology, they just need sensible people.   Tanzeem-e-Islaami is another good group. Saleema: I think we've been over this before (?).  According to MANY scholars, trimming of the beard is FORBIDDEN.  And I'm talking about REAL scholars here!  The evidence for this are the numerous ahaadith of the Prophet (pbuh) which order the Muslims to leave the beard alone.  Leaving it alone means ... leaving it alone!  The Prophet (pbuh) himself never messed with his beard. Of course, there is another opinion out there, and that is that trimming it is ok.  The evidence for that is the act of Ibn Umar (r.a.) when he took his beard in his fist and removed whatever extended beyond it, and nobody from the Sahaabah objected to it.  So several scholars, based on this incident, have pronounced it ok to trim the beard, and have said that there is no specified length for the beard. According to all FOUR imams (Abu Haneefah, Shaf'ee, Ahmad and Malik) keeping a beard is WAJIB.  And we all know how rare it is to find a consensus among the four imams!!! I must say in order to be fair, however, that several modern day scholars have said that growing the beard is sunnah, not waajib. Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/26/00 at 14:10:00
Assalamoalykum, Arslana, what are you talking about? The muslims men are supposed to trim the beard! I have read the ahadith myself where it states so. Prophet Muhammad (S) advised the Muslims to be different from the Jews and Christians. The Christians don't keep a beard and the Jews never ever trim their beards. The Prophet Muhammad (S) used to trim his mustache and his beard. He said that trimming the mustache especially was dirty, not clean. wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
10/26/00 at 14:54:08
Assalamu alaikum, First of all, my name is Arsalan and not Arslana!! :) Second,  I would be EXTREMELY interested in seeing these ahadith that you're talking about!!!  Seriously!  Can you quote a couple of them, and tell me where they are found?? Jazak Allahu khairan.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Kashif
10/26/00 at 16:03:45
eh!? Why is a sister reading the ahadith about trimming the moustache?! LOL!

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
10/26/00 at 17:33:17
So she can have her weapons ready against the moustache of her husband, of course :)   P.S. Pakistani men have some sort of infatuation with moustaches!! P.P.S. I was raised here :D Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/26/00 at 17:45:43
Assalamoalykum, Brother Kashif, you are absolutely hilarious!!!!!!  I cant stop laughing! :D   And you to Arsalan. Sorry to spell your name wrong. Ok, Arsalan, give me some time to haunt for the ahadith. I hate it when people ask me to look for ahadith. This is the first time I will be doing so. Its so hard. wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
destined786
10/26/00 at 19:09:09
4) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) says: "Trim closely the moustache, and let the beard flow (Grow)." - Narrated Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 498 (5) "Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard" says Ibn Umar. - Muslim, Hadith no. 449 (6) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)said: "Act against contrary to the polythesists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard." - Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 500 (9) Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A.) used to cut that portion (which exceeds the grip of the hand) of the beard. - Tirmidhi

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/27/00 at 14:34:45
Assalamoalykum, So after all, I didn't have to look for the ahadith. i heard that Rasullulah (S)'s beard only came in his fist. Is that true? Did it not grow that long or did he trim it? I know that the ahadith say that the beard needs to grow but what exactly does that mean? Could it mean that muslims should grow the beard vs not growing it? wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Arsalan
10/27/00 at 19:20:15
Assalamu alaikum, Saleema, the ahadith mentioned by Muslimah do not support your following claims: [quote]The muslims men are supposed to trim the beard! I have read the ahadith myself where it states so.[/quote]Note: Ibn Umar's incident does not mean that we are *supposed* to trim the beard, but that we are *allowed* to.  This is evident from the fact that Rasulullah (pbuh) never trimmed his beard himself, and also from the wordings of his sayings to "spare the beard" and "let the beard grow" and "leave the beard alone." [quote]The Prophet Muhammad (S) used to trim his mustache and his beard.[/quote] I'm *very* interested in hearing the proof for Rasulullah (pbuh) *trimming* his beard. Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Saleema
10/27/00 at 23:00:34
Assalamoalykum, So I was wrong about the ahadith. I guess i assumed that because of the description I have heard about Rasullulah, that he trimmed his beard. I have heard, that it his beard came in his fist. So if it is allowed to trim one's beard, why did the tablighi people here said that it is haram for that kid to trim his beard? He doesn't even have a beard, he has two patches, and the hair is curly and it looks gross. my father has a beautiful beard and his hair doesn't curl, cuz he trims it, anything that sticks out his fist. Same with my fiance. (No, the kid doesn't have curly hair, his hair is very straight!). wassalam

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
proudtobemuslim
10/28/00 at 07:51:24
Assalam-u-Alaikum, I haven't really joined the Tablighi Jama'at but I did attend a kind of urdu lecture there.  It was quite interesting and did not contain anything unauthentic to my knowledge... then again, my urdu isn't completely perfect either. To my great surprise the masjid was absolutely PACKED with muslims... in fact i think there were more muslims for the dars then for the Salah!  And this is no hanky-panky straw masjid either.  It was actually quite big... some of the pillars had numbers on them so that the muslims could remember where they left their shoes. It was an enjoyable time, but what really hit me was the sight when my 2nd year friend took us to an area of the masjid where deaf people were 'listening' to the lecture via a brother translating through sign language.   I have also heard from my friends here that the Tableeghis do not discriminate in any way... whether you're hanafi, shafii', ahl-e-hadith, berailvi, even shia', etc. you can come and pray in their mosques and talk to the poeple there... at least i didn't have any problems when i raised my hands during takbeers in salah. Bro. Arsalan could you please explain to me the methodology of the Tableeghis compared to the others.  Actually, one of the reasons I asked this question was that I once read a hadith where it was said that we, as muslims, should stay away from all those groups and stick to the Jama'ah with the leader.  When the Sahaabee asked what to do if there was no leader, the Prophet (SAW) replied, the meaning of which is, to cling steadfastly to the sunnah.  Of course, at that time the Prophet (SAW) talked about the way things would take place in the future.  The name of the article is "State of the Ummah" by Sheikh Saleem Al-Hilalee... unfortunately I can't find it. Wassalam-u-Alaikum Uzer

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
Harisa
10/30/00 at 23:19:53
beards ewww i hate hair i think men and women should shave everything lol but their heads but then again thats just my opinion heheheheh

Re: The dumb things sisters say....
saifullah
10/31/00 at 13:56:06
First of all i shaved my beard once and i looked lie 12 year old girl... But i do manage to shave my head pretty often Harisa, heh.
NS
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