I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST

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I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Anonymous

10/17/00 at 12:15:37

i met a wonderful man and he is of muslim religion and i am not
muslim..we started out as friends and i really started to like this man...he gave me the
most important thing in a relationship that i was looking for without me ever
having to say a word.....to make a long story short we sahred our feeling with one
another and i understand a little about the muslim religion because i have been
looking into it since i do have muslim friends and he told me that he could never
be intimate with a woman unless she was his fiance or wife.....i understand and
respect his religion and his ways....well we did end up being intimate and i want
to know what happens now....please respond as soon as possible...i really need to
know

NS
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
ki

10/17/00 at 13:36:58

Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Rahim

well maybe i am wrong but i think if he (being a Muslim) could get intimate before marriage then i think then his Iman (belief) is just not strong. i dont think you should get in deeper with him. and if you are really interested in Islam perhaps you should go for other sources.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

10/17/00 at 16:29:12

Hello,

Ki is right, his iman (faith) must not be very strong, no offense. If you are interested in Islam, then look into it on your own, the best thing would be to get a copy of the Quran,Yusaf Ali translation.

In Islam, people are told to look for a marriage partner who is stronger in iman (faith) than them so they can help each other become better Muslims.

Being a Muslim he should not have gotten intimate with you, it is a *major* sin. You seem like a nice and moral woman, (you said that you respected what islam had to say about relationships before marraige), please advise him that he should repent for this and if he is serious with you, and then he should consider marriage. That's all I have to say for now.

If you would like to discuss further on this issue or any other, you are welcome to come back to this board you know. :)

May God guide us all. :)

wassalam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
kiwi25

10/28/00 at 17:45:50

salam everybody,

if u and this man have allready got intimate without being married, then he has done something which islam and Allah (SWT) has forbidden, another thing is a person can only get intimate with their wife or husband NOT their fiancee, so to make life easeir on him and urself then stay away from him and impress him by saying that islam doesnt allow this!! salam nouha:)

NS
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
se7en

11/07/00 at 14:19:48

Hello anonymous,

I think I understand what you mean about this man. It must feel really good to be in a relationship like that, with someone who cares about you and treats you in that way.

I don't want to offend you, but you should know that this man did you wrong. In the Muslim faith, a sexual relationship is within marriage, and marriage alone. This man did you wrong because he did not wait until there was a type of commitment between you two before this intimate act occurred. Islam always works to preserve the dignity and honor of people, both men and women. That's why it says no, if you want to be that close to someone, share something so intimate, it has to be in a setup where there is a bond between you two, a commitment. This man wronged you because he took that intimacy without setting up the bond.

Does that make sense?

Let me be *really* honest with you. He might be using you. Why didn't he wait until you were married? What, you're not worth the wait? Maybe he doesn't want that type of commitment with you?

Just keep in mind, you deserve the honor of having a man committed to you before you share this intimate act with him. You deserve to have a man bonded to you when he looks you in the eye and tells you he loves you.

What happens now? God only knows.

Take care and I hope things work out.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Kathy

11/08/00 at 08:45:39

Out of curiosity.
What was the most important thing in a relationship that he gave you?

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
h_m_r00

11/20/00 at 14:52:53

The man that you got intimate with...is supposed to punished, except if he asks Allah's forgiveness. He could marry you as it said in the Quran (our holy book). So I hope you are happy now :)
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Arsalan

11/16/00 at 16:18:59

Where does the Qur'an say that?

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
h_m_r00

11/20/00 at 14:50:04

Salaam
Sorry Arsalan ..I am not a medina addict, so I just saw this today. From now on you better email me.
Any way All over the Qura'n God talks about punishing a zany, by rajm. That part I think you get.
In Surat Al Nur around Ayat 10 -15 it said "Al Zani laa Yankiho ilaa Zaaniyataa awe Moushrikah, wa Al Zaniyatou laa yankihoha ilaa Zani aw moushrik..wa houriam thalikaa alaa al moumineen"
It means that an adultrer should only marry an adultress or a Kafirah, and an adultress an adultrer or Kafir...and both are not (HARAM) for muslims..of course except if they repent truthfully and ask Allah 's forgivenes...
(PS It's kind of hard to remember the exact # of the ayat since I am not looking at a mushaf)
Hiyam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Jenna

12/08/00 at 02:13:18

Asalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatu

Ramadhan Mubarak!!

The Adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress marries none but the adulterer or a Mushrik [and that means that the man who agrees to have sexual relations with] a Mushrikah (famle polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitue, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (plytheist, pagan idolater, etc.). And the women who agrees to marry (have a sexual relations with) a Mushrik (plytheist, pagan idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (famle polytheist, pagan or idolatress etc.). SUCH A THING IS FORBIDDEN TO THE BELIEVERS (of Islamic Monotheism). (Surah 24 Ayah 3)

Subhan'Allah this thing is forbidden for us Muslims. Even if he repents he is still supposed to have the prescribed punishments......

This hadith states:
(Narrated Sahl ibn Sa'd)

A man came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and confessed before him that he had committed fornication with a woman whom he named. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) sent for the woman and asked her about it. But she denied that she had committed fornication. So he inflicted the prescribed punishment of flogging on him, and let her go.

(Abu Dawood)

Subhan'Allah there are plenty of hadith that prove that fornication had its punishments.. I have ever read that if you beg Allah then you wont have to inflicted with the prescribed punishments that he has set down.......Insha'Allah if you make strong Du'a to Allah to forgive you then he will Insha'Allah Ameen....But that doesnt mean that the punishments should not be inflicted.......

Take care everyone....

Jenna

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Kathy

12/08/00 at 08:54:34

slm
If one committed a fornication, where would they go to get flogged today?

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Al-Basha

12/08/00 at 09:09:31

Salamu Aliakom,

[quote]
If one committed a fornication, where would they go to get flogged today?[/quote]

Sis I don't know of any place here in the USA where'd you get flogged. I do know that in Saudi they do flog. And I don't think the person who did the crime would actually "go" to get flogged, I believe wa Allahu A3laam it's up to Islamic govt to take them and do the flogging on them. wa Allahu A3laam.
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Malika

12/08/00 at 11:33:47

slm

there is a Masjid in brooklyn, NY that indeed carries out the flogging

I have heard stories of persons being flogged there

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

07/07/01 at 03:24:22

Assalam ualykum,

Some girl I know who committed fornication and her mother found out about it and she flogged her own daughter. Ouch.

Really? There’s a masjid that does that?
wassalam
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
se7en

12/08/00 at 15:19:00

How can a masjid or a mother do that? Was it even done in the right manner? Who gave them the authority to do that? Was there a trial? Were there witnesses? Did a qadi of shariah tell them to do that?

You can't just take it upon yourself to "carry out" these laws of shariah. Who are you to take the Law into your own hands? It's a beautiful system with conditions and bounds and legislation that we need to understand before we attempt to implement them.

I know of stories in the city where Muslims go out in gangs and beat down homosexuals, or barge into people's houses when the men haven't shown up for jumaa, or cut off people's hands when they steal. That is irresponsible and incorrect, and this gang is abusing the word shariah every time it does that. Who is their authority that is keeping them in check? Who's making sure they're doing what they're supposed to in the right way? What kind of Islam is this that they are practicing? What kind of daawah are they doing?

This is wack. This is *not* how you implement shariah. Considering our condition today why aren't we out there trying to teach these people why they *shouldn't* be committing zinnah instead of flogging them? Why aren't we trying to establish shariah courts in the United States that we can go to as an alternative? Yes, Islamic law should be fulfilled, but with wisdom and with i'tibaa, in the correct manner. WITH shariah courts, WITH ilm-equipped judges, and WITH a sound base of knowledge as to what shariah says when it comes to these matters.

wAllahu 'alam.
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

12/08/00 at 15:35:10

Assalam ualykum,

If a masjid in new york somewhere is doing that then i would think that they are going about it the islamic/legal way. But I don't know and if they aren't then yes that's wrong.

The girl was caught by her mother. the mother had heard rumors about her daughter before but at that time they were just rumors. The girl, when caught, repented. but the mother felt that she had to carry out the prescribed punishment. So she flogged her herself over a period of two weeks.

wassalam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
jannah

12/09/00 at 00:24:44

slm,

I agree with sr. se7en, I don't think that's right... who made her the judge, jury and khilafah...where are the witnesses, where are the girl's rights Islamically??? That's like vigilatism... call it whatever you want but don't call it Islam.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
bhaloo

12/09/00 at 02:03:20

slm

I find that hard to believe something like this is happening there.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Kathy

12/09/00 at 10:41:25

slm
What is a person to do regarding repentance? If they commit this act. Please correct me if I am wrong but there was a man being flogged and died before the flogging was over. They dug up his body and finished the flogging, because it was better for him to be flogged in this life.
So if a person chooses to recieve their punishment now... who would do it?
On the flip side- I found this in Islam Q&A

Repenting From Adultery

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assalam-o-Alaikum

Brother I don't know what to do, but I have committed a great sin. I know the concept of confession does not exist in our beautiful religion, but I have committed fornication. I am trying to repent, and trying to ask Allah for his forgiveness. As I was reading Surah Noor, I found out that I can't marry a chaste woman, what should I do. Please pray for me so Allah makes his punishments easy on me in the Hell fire.

Al-hamdu lillaah.

1) Do not despair, for Allaah the Most Exalted and Glorified said (interpretation of the meaning): "Say: Oh my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the mercy of Allaah, for Allaah forgives all sins; for He is oft-forgiving, most merciful." [Surah 39,Verse 53]

2) Let your repentance be truly from your heart, and stay away from all sources of temptations. Also, perform many good deeds, as good deeds abrogate the bad ones.

3) If you repent to Allah, you are no longer described as a fornicator (zaani). Therefore, you can marry a chaste woman.

4) The believer has high hope and aspiration for the best from Allaah. He not only asks Allah for making his punishment easy in hellfire, but he also prays to God the Almighty to save him from Hell and award him with paradise for his repentance and good deeds.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Al-Basha

12/09/00 at 11:34:29

Salamu Alaikom,

It's my understanding of the issue that there is a process to go through for there to actually be flogging. I mean you have to go the Islamic court, get witnesses etc. As for the mom that Saleema was talking about, whatever she did to her daughter inside her home is between her and Allah. I am not saying what she did was right and unless a person knows the whole story, there's always going to be assumptions.

I agree with Jannah about the idea of vigalantism. You can't just form a group of Muslims and bash, smash and beat everyone who did this and that.

Probably the best thing, would be to try and form a Shariah court as Se7en said. Then the situation could be examined etc, but Allahu A3laam I think most families will not even want to publicize these misgivings.

In Egypt, where a lot of the issues are on the rise (AstaghfurAllah) people just hide the issue because it is unheard of that sort of thing to happen. Of course "hiding" isn't good either, because it gives ppl the idea that well even if it is done, then they won't get in trouble.

Wa Allahu A3laam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Jenna

12/09/00 at 16:24:38

Asalamu Alaikum

Well if the girl was caught by he mother and the daughter even admitted it what rights does she have?? (Of course if the mom ONLY saw then she would need four witnesses). If the girl admitted the mother. Then the mother has the right to do what she did.....But to me if the girl was caught and admitted it what rights does she have....She is a fornicator....She does have the rights if the mother never caught her and she didnt admit it. Then the mom can not do anything except to the guy and ONLY if he admits it as well..........

Narrated Sahl ibn Sa'd

A man came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and made acknowledgment before him that he had committed fornication with a woman whom he named. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) sent someone to the woman and he asked her about it. She denied that she had committed fornication. So he gave him the prescribed punishment of Lashes and left her.
(Abu Dawood)

Subhan'Allah to me if the daughter admits it then the ONLY right she has is to flogged however many times that is prescribed......Insha'Allah if she gets her punishments in this life then she will not get it in the Hereafter.....

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, with a group of his Sahaabah standing around him: “Come and give me your oath of allegiance, promising that you will not associate anything in worship with Allaah, or steal, or commit zinaa (illegal sexual activity), or kill your children, or utter slander intentionally forging falsehood (by wrongfully attributing illegitimate children to husbands) [cf 60:12], or disobey me with regard to anything good (ma’roof). Whoever among you fulfils this oath, his reward will be due from Allaah, and whoever commits any of these sins and is punished for it in this world, this will be an expiation for him. Whoever commits any of these sins and Allaah conceals it for him, then his case rests with Allaah – if He wills, He will punish him and if He wills, He will forgive him.” So they gave their oath of allegiance to him on that basis.

(Abu Dawood)

So Insha'Allah IF the mother did it right. i.e. that her daughter admitted it. And she carried out the punishments prescribed by Allah and his Prophet (saw) Then may Allah grant the daughter forgivness and the mother reward Ameen.......

Yes people should be tried fairly and NO people should not go around beating people up...If they do it according to the Shari'ah the fine.......That means being tried fairly according to the Sunnah.....But Subhan'Allah in this country we are unable to do that.........We are unable to FULLY practise our religion.......May Allah Ta'aala help us all Insha'Allah Ameen.......

Yes Homosexuals should be stoned, Yes theifs hands should be cut off (depending on what they stole and how much is was worth), Yes Adulteres should be stoned, and Yes fornicators should be flogged...But they have to fairly tried according to the Sunnah....And we cant do that here now can we??

Jenna

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

12/09/00 at 23:00:38

Assalam ualykum,

I don't know about all these details on how the punishment should be given out. The mother caught the daugher in the act, the mother wasn't supposed to come home at that time, and she walked in on them. So the mother flogged her, a couple at a time, for two weeks so that the girl wouldn't fall sick.

wassalam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Jenna

12/10/00 at 06:34:10

Asalamu Alaikum

If the mother only caught them and flogged her then that is against the Sunnah:

And those who launch a charge against chaste women and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegation) flog them with eighty stripes: and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors
(Surah 24 Ayah 4)

Subhan'Allah it is not enough for her to Flog her daughter because she seen it herself you HAVE to have FOUR witnesses........
Did she admit it?? Where did this story come from???

Jenna

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

12/10/00 at 10:57:16

Salamz,

hey, I am not saying that what she did was wrong or right. She didn't even repent seriously cuz she went back to being her old self. The mother caught her in bed and the daughter admitted that it wasn't her first time. Maybe I shouldn't say anything else; after all it is a small world.

I have a question. the masjid in new york that does that, do we know this for a fact or is it just a rumor? I mean if it is some kind of an underground thing, then that means that it is illegal. I have been thinking, what kind of a community is that to allow such a thing? No one would let that happen, there would be some people who would tell, right? So its probably just rumors, right?

I have heard of courts allowing the community to settle disputes among people the Islamic way, so if we can do that, maybe we can also set up Islamic courts or something, demanding that it is our religious right? Any lawyers on here? Maybe they know how these things work.

wassalam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Arsalan

12/10/00 at 13:18:14

Assalamu alaikum,

[Jannah said:]
[quote]call it whatever you want but don't call it Islam.
[/quote]Hmm! That line sounds awfully familiar!!! Who said that?? :)

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Malika

12/11/00 at 15:36:10

slm

The masjid that does the flogging does actually exist and it is not a rumor.

There were witnesses and it was real. As for us saying this can't be done. It does state this in the Quran. This wasn't and is not a vigilante operation. The Iman is well known and respected for his knowledge he always goes overseas. Now as I was not there I cannot say how it was done but there are people walking around that had this done to them - Brothers!

Who am I to say it is wrong or right. It does however make the people more careful and it certainly is a deterrant.

As for the mother, as we all know our intentions carry alot of weight. As someone posted earlier her punishment or reward is for Allah. I think for her just to say bad girl don't do it again isn't enough by far. And as we all know Wallahu a'lam

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
UmmZaid

12/13/00 at 02:46:38

Regarding the masjid in BK: I know this happens in at least one masjid there, as well as another one out on LI. There is a masjid in NJ where one Jumu'ah, instead of having Khutbah, they showed a video of several Muslims stealing crackers and food from a grocery store. The masjid 'security' folks then stepped up and proceeded to *beat up* the men and women who were on the tape in front of the entire Jama'at.

I know of another masjid (I won't say where, it is a small, small world) where two girls got caught b/c they got pregnant. They were brought in front of the entire community, their shirts removed, and they were whipped for zina, *while they were pregnant.* The boys, who were identified by the girls, were never punished. Natch.

La illaha il Allah, la howla wa la quwatta illah billah.

There is no taqwa, and no hikma in such incidents. Where is the Shari'a being applied? Not here. Even *I* know that there is no punishment for stealing crackers. Subhan'Allah.

May Allah have mercy on them, b/c a people who have whipped pregnant girls and exposed their nakedness to men surely have none in their hearts. And may Allah have mercy on all of us who remain silent when such things occur.

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
Saleema

12/13/00 at 08:42:47

Assalam ualykum,

What?! Whipped while pregnant?!!!!!!! No! Tell me this is a sick joke? In front of men?! Astaghferullah!

What community is this?! What's their address, the name of the masjid? I am going to tell the local police in their town!

This is simply intolerable!!!!! I am so angry!

Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
assing

12/13/00 at 10:04:23

As salaamu alaykum, this confusion and misunderstanding when it comes to applying the "hudud" would not have existed if these people only understood their deen and applied it correctly, for ibn Al Qayyim in his magnificent book "I'laam Al Muwwaqi'een" narrated that there is is unanimous consensus amongst the sahabahs that a muslim what commits is sin that requires the "hudud" i.e. flogging, stoning,..... etc. is not punished in the land of the kuffar {as we are in this country}, for this may have a number of negative reprecussions;
1. This may cause the person to apostate. which in turn may lead them to
2. Renagade against the muslim authorities by siding with the kuffar and helping them agaist the muslims.
In addition even if one is in a muslim country, it not is in the hands of the individual to carry out these punishment, for this will lead to a much greater evil, but rather it has to be carried out by the muslim ruler or a judge.
However, it is important to note here that it is sufficient for one to just follow the quran and the sunnah, as these people did, but rather follow the quran and the sunnah with understanding of the sahabahs, because these people followed the quran and the sunnah, but not how the sahabahs understood it though.
Btw, some food for thought - ibn Taymiyyah said that up to his time {the 1200's} there has never been a case in the history of islam where someone was whipped or stoned because 4 witnesess saw them, but rather only from confession or signs of pregnancy.

NS
Re: I REALLY NEED AN ANSWER...FAST
bhaloo

12/13/00 at 10:45:02

slm

I too am shocked at what happened. What kind of leaders run those mosques? ???

Jazak Allah brother Hisham. Alhumdullilah you always post some beneficial knowledge from Ibn Qayyim, please continue to do so, insha'Allah. :)

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