Love and Marriage?????

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Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/01/00 at 22:18:48
Ok so...lemme get this clear....by what i have been reading here on this message board i have gotten the impression that....

You are supposed to marry then be in love???

or what????

ok well in Bosnia...muslims dated...although you were not supposed to sleep with anyone till marriage and so now this whole NO DATING idea is new to me...soo im asking...curios lol

kkk well go ahead hehe post your knowledge, opinions, questions ... what not hehehe

thanxxxx
take care
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Arsalan
11/01/00 at 22:29:25
Assalamu alaikum,

Define love!

If you're talking about "true love" here, then definitely, definitely the answer to your question is YES!

If you are a practicing Muslim, then your interaction with the opposite gender will be so minimal that there is no way for you to fall in love with them.  The only way that that interaction can increase is through marriage.

You can be interested in someone.  You can like someone.  You can even admire someone, and wish with all your heart that Allah gives them to you as your soul mate.  But that will not be true love.  Because true love requires, among other things, that you know the person extremely well- you know them so well that you know all their strengths, and all their weaknesses, and STILL you love them!  

And you just cannot do that without being married to the person!

Why?  

That's another story altogether!

Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: Love and Marriage?????
Saleema
11/02/00 at 01:07:44
Assalamoalykum,

I don't belive in "falling" in love. I think you can make yourself fall in love with anyone who suits you. people usaully give me weird looks, cuz most everyone says that u can't help liking someone, that you don't have control over your feelings. I think that is true only to a small degree.

wassalm
Re: Love and Marriage?????
M.F.
11/02/00 at 09:21:25
Assalamu alaikum,
Saleema,
You said,
[quote]
I think you can make yourself fall in love with anyone who suits you. [/quote]

I have to disagree with that.  I don't think you can fall in love with whomever it suits you, at will, I really don't think that's something you can force.  I do however think it's very easy to become dependent on someone, (and you can do that without even being conscious of it) and not being able to live without them, but there's  a huge difference between that and falling in love with them.

On the other hand, about this "falling in love after marriage" question, I think it goes without saying.  Anyone who's gotten married to someone they loved (or admired or liked or just had a good opinion about) would probably say that they didn't really fall in love with them until after they got married, no matter how much they thought they loved them beforehand.
Am I making sense to anyone? :)  What do you all think about it?
salam
Mariam



Re: Love and Marriage?????
Saleema
11/02/00 at 09:45:25
Assalamoalykum,

In all my years no one has agreed with me on this and I don't expect anyone to do it either. I know its a strange opinion, well, to others anyway.  

:)

wassalam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
tq
11/02/00 at 10:11:58
Assalamo elikuim

I agree with you Saleema!
Also liking someone's face is infatuation but to love some one you have to know him or her (Like Arsalan said)

Wasalam
tq
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/02/00 at 11:54:23
So ... you all are saying that in order to really love some one u have to get to know them...welll yes i agreee with that..soo then this means u have to be married to start loving this person...well wouldnt u be setting yourself up for divorce..if lets say.... while u are married u get to know this person more and more and u not only are unable to love this person but u dont like them much at all...whats up then??

wahhhhh im confuseeeeeddddd

Re: Love and Marriage?????
se7en
11/02/00 at 14:14:12
salaam Harisa,

I actually looked the word "love" up in the dictionary.  (I'm not a geek, really!)

l o v e - (luv) n. 1.a deep devotion or affection for another person. 2.a strong sexual passion for another person. 3.in tennis, a score of nothing :)

So as Muslims, there's no way for us to have these feelings for someone unless we're married to them.  The way Islam is set up is to protect us from getting emotionally attached to someone when there isn't some type of commitment there.  That's why we don't gaze into each other's eyes, spend time alone together, dress a certain way... we preserve that modesty and distance to keep us from that stuff, unless that person is our husband or wife.

And doesn't that make sense?   Doesn't it make sense to you that when a man looks you in the eyes and tells you "I love you" there's a bond between you, a commitment?  That when you have an intimate relationship with someone you know what this person is really about, know that this person cares about you and trust you and is tied to you, tied to you emotionally, spiritually?  

Makes sense to me.  

And about the second question you asked...

There's a difference between being in love with someone and knowing someone.  Of course you should know a person before you marry them, absolutely. But there's a detachment there from getting emotionally involved.  Before marriage you have to look at the entire person, what he is, what he wants, and also just if you like this person or not, if there is chemistry between you two.  That's why Islam sets up all these different ways of getting to know what a person is about, not only do you talk to him directly but you talk to his friends, his family etc.

I once heard this quote, love is not looking into each others eyes, it's looking in the same direction together.  That's how I see marriage.  It's not even about the love between two people, though of course that's awesome, so good to have, but it's about helping each other on this path, because it's so hard to go it alone.

ok that's enough random stuff from me. :)  
wasalaam.    

Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/02/00 at 22:33:29
Ok i get what you are saying...but....
how can u marry someone if u dont even know if u like them...the person u get to know with other people around may not be infact what kind of person he or she is...cuzz i know people try to impress the friends and family...so i think the only way to really get to know someone is to spend time alone and do things together and see how he or she reacts in situations and just basically get to know eachother but i see Islam doesnt permit this..soo hmmm

i donno oh well i guess i should stop worrying about it because i'm gonna marry the guy who im sure is the one...and my parents nor his will have anything to do with that...

okk ill shut up now LOL

take care

Re: Love and Marriage?????
Arsalan
11/03/00 at 00:07:17
Assalamu alaikum,

I think I have an answer to this dilemma, but I don't know if I can explain it very well.  I'll give it a try anyway ...

Marriage is about give and take.  And Islam has built the institution of marriage around that concept as well.  In an Islamic marriage, a man and woman don't know each other all that much before they get married.  All they know are the basic things that they have made sure to confirm before the marriage.  That's it.  The reason they don't know each other that well is because they haven't lived with each other and they haven't dated one another.  So what you said is correct.

But that is the whole point.  You're not supposed to find out every single thing about the other person before the marriage.  Because if you do, then obviously you're trying to make sure that you get everything your way!  If, during the dating period, you find a couple of things not suiting to your likings, you'll break up.  Simple!  And you'll go find another date.

But in Islam, it doesn't work like that.  You find out the *necessary* things before marriage.  Is the person religious?  What are his priorities in life?  Is he going to let you work outside?  Is he looking for a stay-at-home mother?  Is he going to live here or somewhere else?  Is he going to live with parents?  Is he an intellectual or someone who likes to have a little fun?  Is he too serious?  Too outgoing?  Is he too involved in the Masjid?  Or not involved at all?  Is he a neat-freak?  Is he extremely messy?  Is he too harsh with people?  Is he sane?  etc. etc. etc.

After you find out what you think is absolutely necessary, you leave the rest to be "compromisable."  That's the key word here.  Compromise!  The absolutely fundamental requirement for any successful marriage.  An Islamic couple goes into a marriage knowing that they will be compromising on things, because they know their spouse will have many traits that will not be entirely desirable to them.  But that's alright to them, because they would not be major.  And IF they are, then they will work it out.  Because there is a MUTUAL sense of compromise, which works both ways.  And both people have gone into marriage ready to compromise.

Now look at a couple who has known each other well over the years, even dated, and finally decides go get married.  What are their expectations before marriage?  That they know everything about their spouse, and they're sure they like them!  If there is a single thing that turns out to be different from what they had expected before marriage ... surprise!  There is shock. Disbelief. Discontent.  Uneasiness.  You can't handle it.  You didn't expect it.  And before you know it, divorce is knocking on your door.  No wonder this society has higher divorce rate than any Muslim country in the world.  Because of dating and shacking up before marriage.

So there you have it.  That's my take on the issue.  And Allah, certainly, in His infinite Wisdom, has devised the best plan for us to follow.

I think I've rambled enough.  Hopefully you can make some sense out of all this.  Perhaps others can shed more light on this too.

Wassalamu alaikum.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/03/00 at 00:16:13
Well thanx for the replies
i understand what u mean Arsalan

but i dont wanna jump into marriage like that..LOL.. so therefore i will just shut up right here right now on this issue cuzz it really doesnt involve me

LoL alrighty then
toodlez
Re: Love and Marriage?????
maryam
11/03/00 at 09:56:49
Assalam Alaikum,
It's been a while sinse I posted a message, but I thought was an interesting thread. First, much props to sister Harisa for your quest to understand as opposed to just accept what you hear. I would like to add one or two things to what the Srs and brs have already mentioned.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that Islam makes you wait till you get married to really get to know the person. Picking up from where Br. Arsalan left off

"Now look at a couple who has known each other well over the years, even dated, and finally decides go get married.  What are their expectations before marriage?  That they know
 everything about their spouse, and they're sure they like them!  If there is a single thing that turns out to be different from what they had expected before marriage ... surprise!  There is
 shock. Disbelief. Discontent.  Uneasiness.  You can't handle it.  You didn't expect it."
Or you expected it too well. I mean, it gets boring after a while when you know exactly what the person is going to do because you "know" them too well. People often feel trapped because of the usual same ole patterns. I believe because Islam allows for us discover our partners after being committed to them, we appreciate them more.
Am I making any sense?
Look at the time!!!!!
I'm almost late for class :(
Wassalam,
Maryam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
M.F.
11/03/00 at 12:01:32
Assalamu alaikum,
There's one way that I could kind of agree with Saleema's point, that you can make yourself fall in love with anyone.
Here's how my theory goes:
If you make the intention of doing everything the right way, and pray to Allah and perhaps make Istikhara and decide to leave things in His hands, I honestly believe that Allah will put love between  you and your spouse after you get married (no matter who it is if you chose each other for the right reasons and intentions).  After all, in the Ayah in Surat Ar-Rum, he FIRSt says (what means), "and among His signs that He created spouses from among you" and THEN He says "and put between you affection and mercy".
Subhan Allah, it's amazing isn't it.  And it really does work in that order.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Terri
11/03/00 at 12:59:42
Hi all,

I agree with everything Arsalan said, especially the stuff about compromise.   And, as someone who has done the whole dating thing (although I've never lived with anyone)I can say that it is a fairly tedious process. Of course there are those who meet a lifelong partner right off but in my experience these folks are the exception not the rule. What's more, I think the entire process of finding a mate in the US needs to be rethought.  While I wouldn't want to go back to the days wherein women had no say in their own marriage, I can't help but feel that the way we go about it (date/break-up/date break-up/hope to find someone soon/date again) is impractical, exhausting, and demoralizing.  Frankly, it's usually more fun to stay home with a good book.

But then again perhaps that's why I'm still single :)
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Saleema
11/03/00 at 14:27:51
Assalamoalykum,

Speaking of reading books, i have just rediscovered my love for reading books. I hadn't read a book in a long time and i had forgotten how much fun it can be.

Anyway, I was doing research on homeschooling on the net and I came across the Home School Defense Team, or something like that, and this man had written an essay on the benfits of homeschooling and he focused a lot on dating. He said that kids who do homeschooling are far, far, less likely to date more than one or two people before getting married immediately. The kids aren't pressured into dating because they hang out with people who are involved in religion a lot and also hang out with other homeschoolers. He told the story of his daughter and which really surprised me, i had never heard of people dating in this way before in America. He said that his daughter met another homeschooler when she was 18 and they went on a few dates together with the parents. And after that they got married, the guy was a few years older than her and now they have a child and are going to college together. He said that every time you date someone, you give a little of your love away and especially if you sleep with the people that you date, then you give a lot of your love away, finally when you get married there's hardly any left for your spouse and that's the reason that so many divorces take place in America.

My high school health teacher used to tell us that even if you slept with someone only once, when you get married, those images of being with that person stay in your head forever and that is really damaging to the realtionship, even if your spouse doesn't know that while you are loving them, someon'e else's images pop in your head all the time. He was a really good teacher. He was the type of teacher that makes a difference in your life and he was really intlligent. He said that learning from books isn't wisdom, that wisdom is aquired by not going along with what the world says is the norm, and he said that when you study psychology, learn to read between the lines of a lot of things that they don't tell you. Anyway, he had his own theories which seemed werid to a lot of people but they were in line with what Islam teaches.

wassalam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
jawadio
11/04/00 at 15:34:18
salam...

I gotta agree with Salima.

Ibn Hazm talks about love and says that love is something that comes about from spending TIME with your beloved.  So he totally denies the idea of love at first site and says that it is really lust.  And the idea of meeting someone for a short while and then being distant from them and  obsessing over them is falling in love with your IMAGE of them and not really THEM as such.  

I took a Judaism class a while ago and the Rabbi was asked about arranged marriage and he had one of the best answers that I have heard anyone give on this (whether Muslim, Jew, or Hindu, etc).  He said, "When you *fall* in love, there's this idea of losing your sense of balance, your orientation, and really your senses.  But what remains of that love when you regain your balance, or your senses?  In most cases, not much.  So a true love is naturally something that is a permanent state of your heart to someone.  The idea is not that you FALL in love, rather that you GROW in love..."

Nice way of putting it, and compliments Ibn Hazm's explanation of the nature of love very well.  

Also, normally when you fall (like when you're walking or something), it's usually because of a mistake :) hahahahaha and how many people can look back at some of their "loves" and say that they were mistakes that should never have happened?

Also, in Arabic there are more than a few words for "love" - `ishq, hubb, wudd, etc,  each of which has particular connotations behind them, depending of the state of the lover or the nature of the love.  So `ishq is this obsessire love that totally dominates the person and is really close to a certain type of insanity.  My teacher told me that that type of love is damaging to the nafs and should not be cultivated.

Good stuff this... and can potentially be very dangerous too...

Wa salam,
Jawad.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
mahsou411
11/05/00 at 20:34:26
As Salaam Alaikum,

Arsalan and Maryam made some great points. I also really liked what the rabbi said. Just to add a few thoughts...

When you date and fall in love with someone in the western way, you tend to get all caught up in the unimportant stuff, ("he's sooo cute, he brings me flowers, he has a nice car, we "made love" and it was great")  but then after being with this person for a year or so it is time to decide if he is really a good match for you long term. At this point your judgement is clouded by all this emotion and people find it hard to make a sound decision. They often are so attatched to and dependent on the person that they overlook all the things that could creat discord in a marriage. So many people (and we all have heard the stories) are in bad relationships but find it so hard to break up and keep going back becuase of so-called love. It is no wonder that more than half of american marriages end in divorce! LOVE DOES NOT CONQUER ALL!!!! You need more than that for a marriage.  

That's why Islam is so beautiful because the logistics are dealt with first before your heart and passions are involved. If he or she meets your requirements then you can afford to get emotionally attached to the person because it will most likely work out (as long as one of your requirments is a compromising and understanding person who can take criticism and improve when neccesary). People ofen make better marriage choices when dating is not a part of the equation.

One more thing. In Islam, love definatly comes after the marriage because in my opinion, love is a verb! You cannot say you love someone with out the actions that go along with that: care, nurturing, comprimise, affection, kind words, the little things and the big things. Soooo, since there is a formality between prospective marriage partners love cannot enter the equation. This does not mean that you do not find out if the person is someone you can grow to love. I am going through this process right now and I definatley plan on making sure that the brother I am meeting with has all the ingredients for good spouse. OK I'l stop typing now......


Re: Love and Marriage?????
mahsou411
11/05/00 at 20:43:21
On top of all I just said....

When you date you are not always sure what the other person's intentions are. For muslims, we meet for the sole purpose if finding a spouse. But how many stories have we heard from our non-muslim friends who dated for years only to find that their boy/girlfriend is not really serious and does not intend to get married to them or anyone for that matter. They put all this time and energy into a person just to get their heart broken, something that could have easily could have been avoided if they just laid it all out on the table to begin with. Then half the time they can't even break up because they are too much in love, or too attached or whatever! Alhumdulillah we are saved from that. I hate to see people in that date/break-up/date/break-up cycle. They can never find Mr/Ms Right, they always pick the wrong guys, they always get their heart broken yaddda yadda yadda.  Pathetic really, and absolutly backwards!

Ok I'll go now:)

Salaam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Malika
11/06/00 at 12:28:57
Assalaam Alaikum

I was reading everyone's thought on this and I forgot the sister's name (or it could have been you Br. Arsalan)  I was commenting on. but when you are introduced to your 'future husband or wife they will not be the same person who you will be with.  if the brother is harsh you won't know it until the marriage.  if the sister can't cook, clean you won't find that out until later.  if you don't ask all the questions(good ones! Br Arsalan) and you marry because you have a good opinion of this person (which is in part based on the thoughts of other people who think they know this person) what happens when you find out the total opposite is the case or what you perceived was a lot off.  I think the glue of marriage is communication. but what is the sticky stuff beforehand.  I hope I am making a little sense.  don't get me wrong Marriage is a wonderful institution and Allah(swt) most definitely knew what he was doing. I think classes for those who are in the process of marriage should be held maybe little quizzes about what ifs.  You can speak a thousand words before marriage and not act on half of them after.  I believe even if it doesn't work out Allah has put valuable lessons in that marriage and it is up to you to find those lessons and implement them so that the next marriage will succeed.  Maybe the first marriage was to prepare you for the second.  Or you received the lessons beforehand and the first one will be the one.

I don't know and I will stop rambling now.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Malika
11/06/00 at 15:10:57
another question while we are on the subject of love and marriage...

When should a women "give up" on finding a mate.

I know about prayer but what if you are not supposed to have a mate in this life?

When do you settle into a life of loneliness?
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Mona
11/06/00 at 15:57:43
assalamu alaikum,

Malika, Allah's delays are not his denials. No-one should ever give up, not the least of which hoping. Allah knows best and there must be a good reason for the long wait experienced by some of the sisters , ahem (:-))
 
wassalam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/06/00 at 21:18:43
the last few posts here are a bit confusing lol
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Malika
11/07/00 at 15:31:23
Assalaam Alaikum

what part is confusing sister Harisa?

I guess the few last post would be better understood by the divorced sister.  although I think it can be understood by anybody.

Re: Love and Marriage?????
Mona
11/08/00 at 18:17:14
Assalamu alaikum,

I could be misinterpreting you sr. Malika, but just for the record, I am not divorced.  

Wassalam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Malika
11/09/00 at 16:57:06
Assalaam Alaikum

Please don't interpet that to mean that Sr. Mona. You would fit into the second sentence.  All I meant was that the sisters who have "been there done that" could relate to what was said.  It is pretty clear
Re: Love and Marriage?????
h_m_r00
11/16/00 at 15:01:05
Salaam

Saleema: I agree with you.I know that other people find it unbelievable, but it is true.
Any way, the things in Islam you can ask before marriage are(This is taken from a Hadith)
How religious that person is, if they look god or not(as in you can stand to look at them all your life?), if they came from a good standing family, if that person has money(she or he had enough). And the fifth thing is...I forgot (I will look it up tonight)...
                                   Hiyam
Re: Love and Marriage?????
kiwi25
11/16/00 at 15:54:37
assalamu alaikum everybody,

to add on to what malika said before, married couples sometimes dont realize this at first but they defiently influence each other greatly weather its a good thing or not, it depends buti just thought i might point that out, and to harisa, well first of all, dating brings no benefit, it only brings pleasure by haram methods which leads into things such as unwanted pregnancies, rape HIV AIDS ect,  and if Allah (SWT) told us not to date and told us to get to noe one another the islamic way, then first of all thats what we do and also the chances of us being hurt decrease. so inshallah when the time is right for people to get married they will take this situation serioulsy and may ALlah help them in every decision they choose, wasalam nouha:)
NS
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/16/00 at 17:31:06
just because u date doesnt mean u r having sex
so how are u supposed to end up with the disease mentioned above????

okk i dont get it

i think that u guys only see the American kind of dating as dating

American sleep around a lot no doubt...but in diff cultures where dating exists things arent all about that
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Khathija
11/16/00 at 17:52:55
slm
when two people of the oppisite sex are alone in a room, the third member is shaitan. he will whisper in our ears, he will tell us to do things that will be displeasing to Allah and haram. in islam we aren't allowed to freely mix with the opposite sex for many resons, one is this. another is heartbreak, mainly for us sisters. is a fact of life that us girls get very emotionally invloved. to pervent our hearts form this pain as much as possible, we should keep our distance. there is halal methods of getting to know a brother for the purpose of marriage. you can meet in public with a wali(father brother or any other male you can't marry). i hope this cleared up any misunderstandings.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
se7en
11/16/00 at 18:59:08

Harisa just flow with me a second ok..

Getting drunk is not allowed in Islam, right?  And that makes sense, because look at the consequences of being drunk - alcoholism, diseases, drunk driving injuries and deaths, even rising chances of domestic and child abuse.  

What Islam does is say, ok, not *only* shouldn't you get drunk, but you shouldn't drink alcohol at all.  You shouldn't even be around it, you shouldn't sell it, you shouldn't sit at a table with someone who's drinking it.  You shouldn't go near it.  You shouldn't even go near it, because the more you're around it, the easier it is to fall into it, the more you accept it, become tolerant of it, even appreciate it, though you know it's wrong.  That's human nature, it's natural for us to want to fit in to the environment we're in.  

This is one of the things I love about Islam.  It's real, it doesn't play these games, like, you can drink, just don't get drunk.  It's real, and it takes into consideration our nature, our inclinations.  That's why it says -  because getting drunk has these consequences it is not allowed - and because it's not allowed, all these things that get you close to it are not allowed either.  Bam.  Period.  No problem.

You followin me so far?

Now, the way I see it, it's the same way with premarital sex.  Premarital sex is not allowed, because look at the consequences of it - unwanted pregnancy, sexually trasmitted diseases, psychological effects etc, all these things we've been talking about.

But Islam says, ok, not *only* shouldn't you have premarital sex, you shouldn't date, you shouldn't mack, you shouldn't dress a certain way.  Same thing.  Technical term is qat'al asbaab - cutting off the ways that lead to something.


And look, I can even take this a step farther.  There are some benefits to dating though.  You get to know someone and care about them and love them.  Same thing, there are some benefits to alcohol too, like drinking a glass of wine a day is good for your heart right?  

Look at what it says in the Qur'an about alcohol:  there is benefit in it, and there is harm in it, but harm outweighs the good.  so stay away from it.

Same with dating.  Yeah, there's some benefits, but look at the harm.  The harm outweighs the benefit, so stay away from it.  

Bam.  Period.  No problem.


Yeah, I can understand why you have an issue with this.  But it makes sense.  What's easier for you?

Going to a bar, being around people who drink, making it a part of your culture and saying no?

Or not approaching it at all?

Getting close to someone, learning about them, having this person care for you, mutual attraction, physcial chemistry, and then saying no?

Or not approaching it at all?


Think about it.


peace.
NS
Re: Love and Marriage?????
bhaloo
11/16/00 at 19:39:31
slm

Alhumdullilah excellent naseeah from the original three.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Sara
11/16/00 at 22:41:39
Assalam,
I have to agree with Arshad!!!!
Se7en I gotta print out your last post and let my non-Muslim friends read it. They always "feel sorry" for me 'cause I can't date. YEA RIGHT!!
Your post explains why Muslims shouldn't date-MUCH better than I do!!!!
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Harisa
11/16/00 at 23:19:26
To: Seven

ok..i can see the benefits of all that...but personally

i feel that i have control of my actions...i chose not to do such things not because of Islam and Allah but because i dont see any good in those things...no i dont drink and no premerital sex for me...although i do have friends who drink and im not gonna stray from the just because they drink...i tell them they need to stop and that its bad for them...but im not gonna stop being around such people

lol..u may find this funny..because im arguing so much on this dating thing...

i dont know if i should even get into this lol u might think its wierd

but i think that there is this one person u are supposed to spend your life with...and when u meet them u will know...

and i think that...that person u meet and u think it could be him..u should spend time with him and get to know him and make sure...and if u both feel the same way .. then maybe it was meant to be and if u r both inlove ... u can marry or whatever

i dont need Islam to tell me not to have premarital sex or to drink, do drugs what not

i dont do those things because i see no benefit in them...

lol i dont even know where im getting with this
ok ill stop now and let u ask questions im sure ive confused u lol

alrighty
take care
toodlez
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Nazia
11/17/00 at 00:35:45
Assalamu Alaikum,

Harisa, when you read posts on this board, I know that sometimes you're thinking, "My God these people are brainwashed...listen to them, they sound like robots, Allah says do this, so they do it, whether it makes sense or not."  Allah says cover--we cover; Allah says don't drink--we don't drink; Allah says don't date--we don't date.  How can we do this yet still claim we have a freedom of choice, and still consider ourselves thinking,philosophical, realistic individuals??  Harisa, many Muslims, on this board and around the world, have spent YEARS and YEARS pondering the nature of Islam, wondering, and searching for answers behind the words of the Quran.  Slowly, we start developing this understanding of how it all fits together like a beautiful puzzle.

Imagine one of those 10000 piece puzzles.  The ones that seem impossible and beyond reach at first glance.  Islam is like this puzzle.  To the outsider it seems obscure, perhaps even uninviting.  But to those Muslims, slowly putting the pieces together, unfolding this amazing new picture, its a reason for living.  We realize that after we put those first few pieces together, the rest just starts falling into place.  Before we know it, we have huge chunks of the picture in place.  And one day, we look down, and realize we've finished the puzzle, so we step back and we look at the product.  And what do you know, we have before us this complete beautiful picture.  If it were missing even ONE puzzle piece, the entire thing would be incomplete, imperfect.  The puzzle pieces themselves represent tenants, or aspect of Islam, while the act of piecing them together represents our quest for knowledge and understanding.  The finished product, so clear, so prominent, so complete, is the religion of Islam.  And only after we have worked hard to put the pieces together ourselves, will we appreciate and understand it.

Separately, each puzzle piece seems meaningless, but when you put it all together, subhan'Allah you see the role it plays in the big picture.

So Harisa, no one is expecting you to accept and fully understand why Islam is the way it is.  The truth is, this understanding comes from living it, experiencing it, crying at the sound of a beautiful verse, fasting during the month of ramadan, circling the Ka'aba with millions of fellow Muslims, waking up for Fajr prayer in the early morning and many other things.  No one can fully explain it to you.  No one can give you an answer that would make you happy.  You have to realize that, if you TRULY want, one day, you will find that puzzle piece, put it in its place, and realize that all of the sudden, the puzzle got a lot easier.

So yes, we do what Allah says, but not because we don't understand, or are blinded by our faith, but rather because we DO understand, we DO see the complete picture and we have found our missing puzzle piece.

Take Care,
Wassalam
Nazia
Re: Love and Marriage?????
jannah
11/17/00 at 10:47:07
Nazia amazing post sister

Harisa to add, you may have found why those things don't have benefit but there millions of others who haven't right. And what if one day you think it's ok to do something that doesn't have any benefit for you. It's all subjective right. That's what divine guidance is for. Everything God sends down is objective and good for us because He is our Creator and knows better than us because we have limited vision.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
lightningatnite
11/20/00 at 04:46:17
salam :)

Nazia, you remind me of a Persian story.  There was once a man unjustly locked in a prison cell, sentenced to spend the rest of his life there.  A visitor, one day, slipped a small box between the bars.  On it was written "Freedom".  The prisoner opened the box, hoping to find a key, a saw, anything to escape.  What he found instead was a beautifully patterned prayer rug.  A prayer rug?

Each day, for years, he prayed, wondering who and why someone gave him this rug.  Then, after 20 years of bowing his head on this rug, something amazing happened.  He began to realize that the pattern on the rug was really a detailed map of how to escape from the prison!

One day we'll look back at Islam, and realize how it is this wonderful, perfect way to live.  But not until we've humbly bowed our heads for many many years.


:) salam :)  


Re: Love and Marriage?????
Arsalan
11/20/00 at 10:04:06
Wow!  That was cool lightning!  

Wassalamu alaikum.
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Sara
11/20/00 at 22:47:10
DITTO!!!
Re: Love and Marriage?????
hermit
11/21/00 at 12:50:26
Assalam-u-Alaikum,
 Harisa, put it this way. How do you know who to date anyway? By looks?! He could be extremely evil, a tyrant, who knows? You find out the hard way. Or, he pretends with you. He might seem nice and freindly, but all he wants is your money. There. Only *one* of the reasons why not to date. Another one, maybe he will get to know you, and then RAPE you! That's not nice.  In Islam, I beleive you can only talk to each other with the presence of a Mahrum(one who reaches puberty, is that the right word?). Correct me if I'm wrong. Hmmm...Nazia put it beautifully, much better than me. OK, I won't marry for a LONG time, but it doesn't matter. I can't be excluded 'coz I'm "too young". Islam is for all of us. Aargh, I sound kinda stupid to myself, I'm so embarressed, I hate it when I speak to lots of people :(
Re: Love and Marriage?????
Saleema
11/22/00 at 14:29:23
Assalamoalykum,

Its ok beta. :)  Don't worry, you don't sound stupid at all.

wassalam


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