Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Confiscated Notes... |
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| Nazia |
| 02/25/01 at 16:40:56 |
| [slm] I confiscated this note today from a student in my Sunday school class. She is 12 years old. *The names have been changed to protect the innocent, and the not-so-innocent. Dearest [i]Ahmed[/i], I have a picture of you. I think your beard is soooo manly. So is your Celica. I said MashaAllah. Whose your hott friend with the red hat? I did some investigating in my spare time. Is his name [i]Jamil[/i]? Well he's cute. Tell him I said soo. I really have to go sweetie! Your true love, [i]Noreen[/i]"Ahmed's Girlfriend" [i]Saleem[/i] ******* hmm. Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
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| Mona |
| 02/25/01 at 16:44:35 |
| [wlm] So, have you thought of what you'll do about it? wassalam |
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| princess |
| 02/25/01 at 18:06:14 |
| as'salaamualikum :) stop the mess..tell her ammi :) ma'salaa ;-D |
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| Slimer_007 |
| 03/02/01 at 10:09:23 |
| [slm], Man, it's REALLY depressing and sad to see how this generation is becoming and is at this present time :'( They are too caught up with the western way of life and have been influenced to such a big extent... Well, what are you going to do Nazia? I agree with princess completely! Show her mom... And WHOA! this girl is only 12?!?!?! isn't that the age of a SIXTH grader? HOW SAD! May Allah help this new generation and open their hearts to the TRUE, PURE Islam! Ameen!!! Well take care all Wa Salams |
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| Mona |
| 02/27/01 at 10:34:04 |
| [slm] This needs delicate handling. While telling the mother might transfer the burden of disciplining the girl to her mum, it won't necessarily teach her anything other than to be more deligent next time and make sure not to be caught. You are probably closer to her age and better able to relate to her. She in turn won't see you as a mother figure, rather as a sister figure and thus be more willing to *listen* to your advice. Addressing the issue head-on is best. She obviously has a 'crush" on a boy in her school. She needs guidance on how to deal with such adolescent 'feelings'. She also needs to be aware of 'Muslim Life Style' and how it is different, more responsible and more dignified than the western culture she is surrounded with, exemplified by teen romances and other sorts of rubbish. A disciplinary action needs to be taken, for sure. But try to drive the message home as well. Some kids, most kids, are stubborn and think they know everything. How to deal with them wisely is the real dilemma teachers and parents face today. wassalam |
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| Nazia |
| 02/25/01 at 20:34:40 |
| [slm] Well, I'm going to assume that this note was a big joke. Obviously, this girl is waaaay too young to be involved with a guy who can drive or grow a beard! I'm not going to tell her mom, that won't do anything besides make her hate coming to my class. I wasn't so much worried as I was surprised that they're so open about their feelings!! Thats so strange! I will probably just talk to her. Not sure what I'm going to say. What a goofy age. Alhamdulillah I will never be 12 again :) Wassalam, Nazia |
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| UmmIby |
| 02/25/01 at 21:25:54 |
| Assalamu alaikum wr wb nazia> find someway to mention this at any family program you have at the masjid that "girls of today fall into this", if you want you can mention getting a note and just white out that girl's name and show this is how the society is becoming or the community, and if the parents want to change it they should try their best instead of just leaving it all up to us. i teach a sat school program and my girls are around ages 12 and up to sixteen. And a lot of times during the class, they interupt my lesson to gossip with each other about 'whose making out with who? whose sleeping with who? the PROM!, movies, tv, music, hottest actors, etc etc,' they are very disrespectful in class and just plain rude. When i finally had enough of this foolishness of 4 months of them doing this, i finally blew up on them yesterday... and do you think they even said sorry we will try.. no they just rolled their eyes and said oh yah ok whatever..... i was teaching them the importance of salat and the fiqh behind it, and they seemed like they didnt care at all about it... and it made me sad that their parents are totally dependent on me to change their kids and make them into good muslims but its kinda hard since they didnt teach them from a young age... a girl was allowed to mix with the guys, go dancing, celebrate in the non islamic holidays, wear mini skirts, tight clothes.. parents never said much.. she didnt pray much, and parents never said anything cuz she wasnt past puberty. she hits it, and the parents are like ok, now let's learn how to pray... kids dont want to, so parents are ok, we'll give you more time. now parents are saying you can't do this, you can't do that, you should pray, and the kids are like we dont care anymore.... and the parents are crying about how bad their kids are and what did they do wrong, and are asking me to help them.. im trying to help, but when they are so disrespectful like this and giving me such an attitude im so peeved about it... i blew up on them yesterday and they never even said im sorry for doing this to you, im sorry or we'll try next time to listen... anyways i mentioned this to my husband about what was going on, and he could understand why i was under a great deal of stress and always upset after the class saying i have the toughest of the bunch... all the rest of the kids under that age are good kids that actually enjoy participating in the class and learning, whereas the girls that i have are hopeless, though only 5-6 of my students are ok students, whereas the rest which is 4 are really bad.... my husband mentioned this incident to one of the organizers of the school, of what the girls were talking about 'whose going out with who, whose making out with who, and sleeping with who?' he was pretty upset that they would rather talk about that than the learning of islam. anyways, that's my situation. i apologize for taking up space in this forum. just wanted to say nazia to hang in there, and this is what happens when the kids grow up in this society and think its ok to engage in such a way. they find it cool to mix and find nothing wrong in it, even though "we" older ppl know about it and try to tell them, and all they can do it roll their eyes. mentioning it to the whole community instead of just that mother might stop the others from making the same mistake... Allahu Alim take care |
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| jannah |
| 02/25/01 at 22:33:05 |
| walaikum salaam wrt, ummiby the state of the next generation is indeed sad, i can never remember acting like that in class but i see it all the time at our islamic school. i could seriously throttle some parents sometimes who don't want to let their kids get too 'islamic' when they are young and let them do anything until they are 15 and then start worrying about them when they start to rebel. i've heard parents argue with me about sending their kids to islamic events b/c it is "not islamic" enough or has "mixing" or whatever excuse they can come up with and it actually renders me speechless sometimes. and they always say to me "not my child" my child doesn't need that. anyway about the girls in your class problem. i think like most kids their age they have attention span problems and they don't care about anything that doesn't relate to them. so maybe doing a session on the fiqh of salah is too hard core for them right now. instead you can start introducing issues that relate directly to them, like maybe read to them that newspaper article of that muslim girl who killed herself and her boyfriend in michigan and go into how this could have been prevented by everyone involved, parents, community, the girl herself, education etc. And then go into the islamic rules in islam on marriage etc and how they really protect each person involved and society. we are seriously competing with mtv and everything else out there, we need to make our classes more interesting, more relevant, more stimulating to get their attention and make them start learning. the old format of lecturing isn't going to work anymore. we need to use videos and the internet and media and be dynamic. there needs to be more 'social' type of support things, like nazia's idea of slumber party halaqa's, girls getting together to do halal things, and more role models from good 'with it' muslim women under 25. just remember if these girls grow up to be good muslims they will take it upon themselves to learn the facts of fiqh and everything else. as teachers it is our job to inculcate a love of islam and a love of being a good muslim. it should be that above anything else that is our goal, and if every muslim child had that today you will see a different ummah in 20 years time. |
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| bhaloo |
| 02/26/01 at 00:02:14 |
| slm Sounds like just one of the stages of what the following article describes. The Mindless Dating Game - Happiness or Heartbreak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many unmarried people these days search for “love” in a series of premarital relationships, which far from yielding happiness, lead to nothing but spiritual degeneration, loss of self-respect, heartache and misery. When the average girl reaches the age of ten or eleven, she - sometimes with the knowledge of her parents, sometimes without their knowledge - becomes engrossed in and obsessed with the teen romance novel: a blonde, blue-eyed girl, with a perfect figure, falls in love with the football hero of the school, a few complications on the way (nothing major, of course), but things end happily after. In these novels, girl and boy might hold hands, or there might even be a kiss, thrown in somewhere along the line. By the time the impressionable reader of these novels reaches her late teens, she is sick of these story lines...and is searching for more. And is most cases, “more” is usually available right there in her home, tucked away at the bottom of her mother’s cupboard, in the form of adult romance novels. The holding hands, and the kissing has now made way for much more, as details of pre-marital passion, and the fulfilment thereof are graphically spelt out on these pages. The reader is told what the “perfect body” is supposed to look like, the notion that sexual intercourse before marriage is sweet and romantic seeps through these pages...the feelings of degradation, and the many possible consequences thereof are conveniently left out. A fairy tale is a fairy tale, we tell ourselves, a book is a book...they have no implications on real life. Surely our daughters understand and accept this... But we are deluding ourselves. These same “harmless” fairytales and books, have a detrimental effect on the thinking, lifestyles and attitudes of our children. The first “crush”/infatuation our daughters experience in relation to members of the opposite sex, is often linked to false perceptions about “dating,” perceptions to which a wide variety of factors contribute. And one of the main factors painting a sugar and candy image of pre-marital romances, are these shallow bits of reading material that our daughters are exposed to. It is no strange co-incidence that girls grow up believing that a boyfriend is the key to happiness...after all they have barely started walking, when the stories of the poor ill-treated Cinderella, saved only by a dashing prince, and the beautiful Snow White woken up by a prince, and the doomed Rapunzel, saved from the tower by...who else - a dashing hero, are told to them. And when they read romance novels, this theory is further reinforced - for, in the classic teen romance novel, the girl without a boyfriend, or “sweet sixteen and never been kissed” is the poor, laughing stock, who doesn’t have a date to the “prom.” And on the pages of a typical adult romance novel, the heroine is always a successful, beautiful career woman, but, she feels, that “something” is lacking in her life...and that “something” is naturally a man. It is improbable that the average teenager, would just read these books, and that there would be no impact on her mind. It is usually exactly the opposite: she wishes she was the person on the pages of the book, and transfers her fantasies to her real life. She might see someone at school, who is popular, and good-looking [i.e. the football hero], and so begins her first painful crush, which is accompanied of course, by sending him anonymous ‘Valentine’s Day' cards, or calling him and playing songs over the phone. Shaitaan has set his trap, and the temptation to sin heightens, and each time the temptation is given in to, the girl becomes more daring. By the time the boy “asks her out,” her nafs has gotten the better of her, and her head filled with the notions of how sweet holding hands before that first kiss must be, she cannot resist. And so begins a “relationship.” But this has all the ingredients that a classic romance novel does not....for those candy-coated pages do not tell you about the heartbreak, the tears, the mood swings and the countless negative aspects that are the central to these relationships And they do not tell you about the degradation and the loss of self-respect, with which people, especially women, emerge, after these relationships. For there is no peace, no tranquillity in such relationships. The daily cycle, the moods, everything about the individual is affected. There is a certain sort of darkness, a restlessness which fills the heart, and this restlessness affects the rest of the family too. For it is now that all the arguments with the parents start: “Why can’t I go out tonight? All my friends are going?” And there are the mood swings, the fluctuating eating habits...if the phone doesn’t ring, then it’s a case of “I don’t feel like eating.” And then there is dishonesty...unable to tell her parents where she really wants to go, she makes the excuse of having to go to the library to study for tomorrow’s test. The ending of each relationship is most often marked by a long periods of torture, in which the girl has to “get over” the boy. Everyday life becomes a misery...her marks drop, daily moods start to depend on the current state of her relationship with the boy and many girls, totally misled by Shaitaan, even make dua for a “reconciliation.” During this period the girl is ravaged by guilt, because deep down in her heart, she is aware that what she has done is haraam, and she also feels guilty about lying to her parents. If there was a physical aspect to her relationship, then these feelings of guilt are deeply accentuated and coupled with a total loss of self-respect. In the worst possible scenario, which is frequently happening, the girl, in an effort to improve her “self image,” may turn to various other ways...smoking, clubbing, drinking and drugs...or she may embark on a series of flings just to make herself feel “special” again. In short the “relationships” so sweetly portrayed in romance novels, which speak only of chocolates, flowers and happiness, end right there: on the pages of the novel. In real life, such relationships lead to nothing but unhappiness and heartache. For how can there be any real happiness in a “love” inspired by Shaitaan? This type of “love” far from being pure and sacred falls into the category of fornication. And regarding fornication, Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Qur’aan: “The woman and man guilty of adultery of fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.” [Surah An-Nur:2] How can there be any long term happiness in a sin for which the punishment prescribed is so severe? But while keeping in mind the above injunction, we should also not despair of the Mercy of Allah Ta’ala...for we cannot even comprehend the vastness of this Mercy. We need to realise and to tell ourselves that there is only temporary satisfaction of the nafs in a pre-marital relationship. And we need to terminate any such relationship which we might be involved in, and sincerely make taubah to Allah. As difficult as it might be to end such relationships, once we realise and acknowledge to ourselves that the novels to which we are exposed to from such an early age are totally based on a kuffaar way of life, which appears to be very appealing from the outside, but which bears no contentment, no real happiness, it will in sha Allah, be easy to do so. In addition to painting a rosy picture of dating, these books also create a very wrong concept of what the ideal partner should be like. It is obvious that since they are kuffaar publications, there is no stress on piety, good akhlaaq, honesty and all the other qualities people should be searching for in a potential marriage partner. Instead these books promote superficial thinking, with all their emphasis on “good looks,” “ figures,” “star football players,” “smart cars,”etc. Parents should closely monitor the reading material which their children bring home and should teach their children about the beauty of nikaah. We should realise, that while it is natural to be embarrassed to discuss such aspects of Islam with them, it is infinitely better for them, that we impart the correct knowledge of an Islamic way of life to them, than allow them to acquire the totally wrong concept of “love” from books, television, movies, and their friends and environment. It should be explained to each teenager that the pre-marital relationships, the engagements, etc to which we attach such a great deal of importance in this world have nothing but a negative bearing on our lives in the aakhirah. It should be time and time again instilled into their minds that pre-marital relationships are a sin...nikaah is an ibaadah. Allah Ta’ala has Created men and women with natural desires, and He has Created nikaah as an institution in which these desires maybe fulfilled. A nikaah in which both, husband and wife are striving to fulfill their obligations to Allah Ta’ala, such a nikaah will be filled with the mutual respect, love and inevitably, the contentment, which we hopelessly search for in pre-marital relationships. Within the sacred context of a nikaah, in which both parties are obedient to Allah Ta’ala, and adhere to His Commandments, there can be no room for the loss of respect, feelings of degradation, etc. which goes hand-in-hand with “going out” with or “dating” someone. We should always bear in mind that should we die in the company of a “boyfriend” or a “girlfriend” or even a “fiancé,” we will be leaving this world, having spent our last few moments of this life in the company of a non-Mahram. |
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| destined |
| 02/26/01 at 00:22:03 |
| [quote]muslim girl who killed herself and her boyfriend in michigan [/quote] [slm] did this happen recently? I haven't been watching the news lately. |
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| jannah |
| 02/26/01 at 00:24:15 |
| i think 2 years ago or late last year |
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| PacificBreeze |
| 02/26/01 at 03:53:58 |
| salaams, i still think the mother should be aware of what her daughter's up to...it'll come out sooner or later...it should be a mixture of both...advise and change her scenario...? wa salaams |
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| BrKhalid |
| 02/26/01 at 09:09:17 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) I know its slightly off topic but I'm always amazed at some of the parents who come to drop off/collect their children at our Masjid. Depending on the time of year, their children are praying Asr/Maghrib/Isha but yet they stay outside and wait for their children instead of praying with them ??? I don't know where this attitude of Islamic Education being the sole responsibility of the Imams and the Madrassah comes from. And woe if by some chance the Imams teach their children something which the parents haven't heard of!!! Muslim parents have got to realise that if they want their children to have a good Islamic upbringing, then they have to roll up their sleeves and make sure they themselves put some effort in and not just rely on the help of others. You hear of too many stories of parents asking what happened to their sons/daughters when they reach 16/17/18 when in reality the source of problem was when they were much younger. Hate to say it but what did you really expect of them given the education you gave them? As for the case in point, not sure what to say apart from the fact that *someone* has to tell her that messages of that nature aren't appropriate in Islam and (probably more importantly) why. Ideally I guess it should be the girl's mother. I don't want to throw this thread off track but I just wanted to ask the following questions for all of those involved in teaching our youngsters: Do you find that children's respect for their teachers is generally on the decline? Are children become increasingly more difficult to control in class? I know its all too easy for us *oldies* to say "it wasn't like that in our day" but I wonder sometimes whether simple basic Islamic manners are slowly being eroded? |
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| Kathy |
| 02/26/01 at 09:26:49 |
| [slm] sigh.... May Allah swt protect my son and your children. |
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| princess |
| 02/26/01 at 13:52:11 |
| walikumas'salaam warhamatullah :) [quote]Do you find that children's respect for their teachers is generally on the decline?[/quote] i know a couple of ppl who teach @ regular public schools, they said, the kids simply just don't listen..we both agreed that some parents, don't know how to handle their kids, and send them to school, to "get better.." the parents assume it's the teachers responsibility to fix the issues that their child is having..they don't realize that it's their caretaking that's gonna work, not the teachers..as they r there to teach..not there to instill sound childern..(i know i got to wordy..sorry :)) [quote]Are children become increasingly more difficult to control in class? [/quote] yes..:) i was @ our weekend masjid school, and we have a rec center there (Five Pillars Center-plug in ;)) i had opened it up, and a bunch of 15/16 yrs old boys came in..they were playing pool, and ping pong, and were talkin about all sorts of things..:o i was blown away :( fear not..i told 1 of the FPC administrators and i think inshAllah, they will be sorted out :) [sigh] kids these days..inshAllah, may Allah protect my little 1's and all of yalls :) ma'salaam ;-D |
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| Al-Basha |
| 02/26/01 at 20:18:26 |
| Salamu Aliakom, You know reading all these messages gets you thinking. Makes me wonder if I am strong enough to raise kids period. Makes me wonder how day by day society keeps degrading. Makes me wonder what it takes to raise good Muslim children anywhere in the world. Yeah it sure does make me wonder ... |
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| Asim |
| 02/26/01 at 23:57:58 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, [quote]Makes me wonder how day by day society keeps degrading. Makes me wonder what it takes to raise good Muslim children anywhere in the world. [/quote] Yep, it is getting harder and harder. What will it take? Prayers and parents that are exceptional role models. Often times these days parents don't have their priorities right. Setting up an Islamic environment from day one is a must, an environment they themselves comform to diligently. Normally you don't 'teach' a child, they follow and learn. Subhanallh, the capacity of even a 1 year old to understand and absorb is amazing. If there is music playing in the house he/she will pick up those words. If there is Quran playing, or the parents always discuss about islam and other issues then that is what the child s going to pick. I think there are three stages in a childs life. The first is from 0 to 5, then from 5 to about 12 and then from 12 to 20. If a child has grown up in the 0-5 stage in an unislamic environment then it becomes harder to teach him in the 5-12 stage. And if the 5-12 is bad then the 12-20 is worse. It may happen that when a child becomes an adult (18+) s/he may stumble and then try to get back on track. But these cases are rare, and the damage that is done right from day one is hard to eliminate. Yes, parenting is a challenge. May Allah help and guide all the parents and may our children grow up to be strong Muslims. Ameen. Wasalaam. |
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| jehad |
| 02/28/01 at 09:19:23 |
| asalm walakum,, I think you are all going to disagree with me on this but I'm going to say it any way, cause I don't care. The ages that were mentioned here are not kids, they are adults. I think when foreigners come to the west they except western ways of thinking. In allot of countries that girl would have already been married. my friend is from Yemen, and his mum got married at 13. it is a fact that once we start to approach puberty being close to the opposite sex is a physical response, just as eating is when we are hungry. People are coming to the west, desire to get their daughters educated just like the westerners, resulting in the delaying of marriage to unnatural ages. and at the same time expect their children not to behave like kufr who delay marriage. the reason kaffar are able to delay marriage is they fornicate to relieve their instincts. The kaffar accuse us of being backward for getting girls married earlier than THEIR laws allow, even though we don't believe in their laws, we believe in Allah's. They are hypocrites, in this country they make it illegal for a girl to get married until she is 16, but at the same time they grant her every aid to relieve her sexual instinct Allah has created her with in a harram way. they provide the pill to girls, at any age, in schools without parental knowledge, with the excuse that Briton has the highest teenage pregnancies in Europe. It's a fact that the politicians who are making the pill available are the ones who are causing a large proportion of Britain's teenage pregnancies. If the girl's parents got their daughter married as soon as she needed to be, she would not be trying to relieve her sexual instinct in a harram way. |
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| princess |
| 02/28/01 at 10:59:52 |
| [quote]The ages that were mentioned here are not kids, they are adults.[/quote] i respect ur 2-cents..as i would expect u to do mine..:) i disagree with the above statement..these girls they ARE kids..do u think a majority of the 13 yr olds that were raised here in the united states, will be legit mothers? or wives even? no, they wouldn't..they r not taught that..yes, if we look back to countries aside from the western world, it's common and not outrageous to get girls married @ such a young age, because they r taught how to be fit mothers and wives.. [quote]The kaffar accuse us of being backward for getting girls married earlier than THEIR laws allow, even though we don't believe in their laws, we believe in Allah's. [/quote] it's best not to call anyone kuf'r..but that's my opinion :) we have to fall the laws of the land..:) doesn't mean we disobey Allah's :) ma'salaam ;-D |
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| zubaid |
| 02/28/01 at 12:09:00 |
| as-Salaamu 'Alaykum, Just wanted to add/clarify something: [quote]the reason kaffar are able to delay marriage is they fornicate to relieve their instincts.[/quote] So if that's the way non-Muslims are able to delay marriage, then are you saying Muslims who delay marriage to waaay past the age of 13/14 would be doing the same thing? I would obviously give a strong no. Not to say that it doesn't happen, unfortunately, but that it is not necessarily the case. And then again, currently, brothers and sisters who have been getting married very, very early have been having problems. I know at least 5 couples in particular. The problem? They are not mature enough, like what Sr. Princess said. Take care, Zubaid Kazmi |
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| humble_muslim |
| 02/28/01 at 16:29:54 |
| AA, First, you cannot follow the law of the land if it entails disboeying Allah (SWT). Anything that is halal in the sight of Allah SWT overrides any man made law. Thus, for example, having more than one wife is halal, but illegal in the US. The fact that it is illegal does NOT mean that we are not allowed to do it. Secondly, the issue of marrying young. It is defintely the sunnah to get married (both men and women) as soon as possible. This was true in the time of the Prophet (SAW) in Madinah, when the fitnah was almost non-existent compared to what it is today. So it makes even more sense today, when the fitnah around us is ubiqutous. However, one should look at the minimum conditions for marriage. A man must be able to support his wife, or he is not allowed to marry. In addition, parents must be sure whether their kids are mature enough to be married. Unfortuanetly, in the western society, kids are not taught or expected to be mature until they are well past their teens. Like it or not, this is a fact of life in the west. My personal take (I have two daughters) is that Inshallah I will marry them as soon as I can, but first I must be satisfied that they will be able to handle marriage and all it entails. And of course, only when I find the right man for them. |
| NS |
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| princess |
| 03/01/01 at 10:27:58 |
| [quote]It is defintely the sunnah to get married (both men and women) as soon as possible. This was true in the time of the Prophet (SAW) in Madinah, when the fitnah was almost non-existent compared to what it is today. So it makes even more sense today, when the fitnah around us is ubiqutous.[/quote] walikumas'salaam warahamtullah :) i couldn't have said it better myself :) preach on brotha :) ma'salaam ;-D |
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| jannah |
| 03/03/01 at 14:25:16 |
| Here's the article about that girl. If you do a search on her name you'll probably find more. There was a better article written by the local newspaper. It had views from her family and the muslim community. Her friends talked about how the relationship was kept completely secret for over 2 years. And then they had quotes from her parents just repeating 'we didn't know.. we didn't know'. A real tragedy all around:( It really shocked the muslim community there and from what someone there told me, ppl did try to reach out to her before this and when she was young she attended some sort of islamic weekend school. Two found dead in home Police suspect fight ended in murder-suicide By Jaimie Winkler Daily Staff Reporter The bodies of a University student and her boyfriend were discovered in an apartment located on East Kingsley St. on Friday afternoon, according to Ann Arbor Police Department officials. Both individuals apparently died as a result of gunshot wounds, but AAPD is still investigating exactly what happened. Officials told The Ann Arbor News this weekend that their original theory appears correct. "It looks like a murder-suicide, just as we originally thought," Roderick told The Ann Arbor News. The woman, Natasha Qureshi, an LSA senior and her 22-year-old boyfriend Christopher Groesbeck, a recent University graduate, were found inside Groesbeck's apartment, AAPD officials said. An acquaintance of Groesbeck's discovered the bodies after rec eiving a call from Groesbeck's mother, who was concerned about her son. Memorial services for Qureshi and Groesbeck have not yet been planned. AAPD officials reviewed autopsy results and interviews of friends, family and apartment complex residents before constructing a theory about what happened in the apartment shortly before the couple died, AAPD Deputy Chief Craig Roderick told The Ann Arbor News in a report on Saturday. But AAPD officials would not confirm the information yesterday. Groesbeck tried to end his on-and-off relationship with Qureshi on Feb. 25, before she left for a Spring Break trip to Toronto. Last Tuesday, after returning from Toronto, Qureshi received a permit from the AAPD to purchase a gun. Three days later, early Friday morning, she went to Groesbeck's apartment and confronted him. AAPD officials told The Ann Arbor News Qureshi cut her wrists with a knife before firing three shots at Groesbeck, hitting him in the neck and chest. Qureshi then screamed and shot herself. AAPD Sgt. Lyle Sartori said Groesbeck's mother instructed a friend to go to the East Kingsley apartment Friday afternoon when she became worried because her son did not show up for work. A building manager allowed Groesbeck's acquaintance into the apartment, Sartori said. "At approximately 3:17 p.m. the Ann Arbor Police Department were dispatched to 727 East Kingsley," Sartori said. There, AAPD officers discovered Groesbeck and Qureshi. Officers also found a knife and a gun in the apartment. "The two were romantically linked and evidently had been in a fight earlier," Sartori said. The two, both from Sterling Heights, had been dating for a year or a year-and-a-half, he said. The Ann Arbor News reported friends and family of the couple interviewed by the police described the relationship as a "stormy romance" although there are no previous records of police intervention. Sartori said the deaths were "originally believed to be a murder-suicide" but were also investigated as "a double homicide for thoroughness." The apartment where the bodies were found belonged to Groesbeck, but Qureshi lived on the opposite end of the building. Valentine's Day stickers still displayed in Qureshi's window matched those in Groesbeck's window just five apartments away. Patrick Javid, who lives in a neighboring apartment building located at 721 East Kingsley St., said he arrived home at about the time the police discovered the bodies. Javid said he was home from 11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Friday and all-night Thursday and did not hear anything unusual. "I came home at three o'clock (Friday) and I couldn't get into (my) apartment," said Javid, a Medical fourth-year student. A Huron Valley ambulance and five to seven police cars blocked the apartment complex for almost 20 minutes, he said, adding that he noticed many different kinds of uniforms and thought "something big is going on." The police interviewed the residents of nearby apartments. Javid was told "two bodies were found mysteriously," but Javid said he had not seen anything unusual that day or any other. Javid said he would sometimes see people outside of Qureshi's apartment and added that he had noticed the large WonderWoman poster Qureshi had just inside her front door. Neighbors said police had visited Qureshi and Groesbeck's apartment building before but said they are unsure of what provoked the visits. Neighbors suggested the incidents may have been drug-related or resulted from burglaries. "Sometimes we see cops around here for loud parties and stuff," Javid said. Melanie Datu, a Nursing student who also lives in a neighboring building, said she did not hear gunshots or other unusual noises. Datu added that she would not have noticed loud voices or screaming. "Usually when you hear screaming you think there's a party going on so you don't think anything of it," she said. apartment Saturday where he and LSA senior Natasha Qureshi were found at about 3p.m. Friday afternoon. Matching stickers hung in the window of Qureshi's apartment. 03-08-99 http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1999/mar/03-08-99/news/news1.html |
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