Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/02/01 at 14:39:43 |
| [slm] (This is long!) I have a friend, who is 20, and an only child. She's half Arab, half American (her mom converted), and was raised Muslim. She is recently divorced, having been married at the age of 15 to a man from the same country as her Dad who was 27. She was not forced into the marriage, rather, she saw the guy in a store, liked him, and what she wanted, Mom and Dad presented on a silver platter. The guy was abusive, physically, emotionally, mentally. Finally, he took a trip overseas "just to visit his Mama," and then called her from back home to inform her that she was divorced. (She'd kind of guessed after mail stopped coming for him when he left and his closet seeied pretty empty for a two week stay). I am so sure it was just a big fat coincidence that he'd just gotten his permanent green card. After the divorce, she came out of her shell a little, so to speak. She came out of the depression she'd lived in as his wife, and began to pray, fast, and so on. She began to lose weight. Now here's where my dilemna is. Mommy and Daddy have always given her what she wants her whole life. We basically had the same kind of economic background and upbringing, in that we were upper middle class, suburbs, college bound, and so on. So, she could not understand when I chose to marry a guy who was more religious than the others who proposed to me around the same time, who were all about money, money, money, but not really living Islamically. Like, my husband won't do the riba thing, so no house for us. For a long time she kinda made me feel bad about it, showing off her gold and her car. My husband told me not to see her anymore and that lasted for about a month or two. Then she got over it (money), and my husband met her dad, and it was all good again to hang out with her. But the problem is, she's come just too far out of that shell. NOW... she recently met a brother (also from back home) and "likes" him. She told her dad she has school 5 nights a week, when she is really going only 2 nights. Her mom knows this. The other three nights, she was meeting with this guy (and another, who she "dumped") at like Starbucks or Mc Donald's or whatever, and hanging out. She called me and was trying to justify this, like "I'm a good girl, I never dated, I never touched a guy, I'm not doing anything bad, we're still in public," and so on. She doesn't know much about Islam. Her mother converted, but left it there. Her father prays, but.. she is always coming to me for advice or something, and I think the main reason that her (strict) dad lets her hang with me and come to my house is because he has met my husband and knows that I'm not a bad influence, and I think he is hoping that we can influence her more towards Islam. Anyway, so the other day, the guy she likes told her that he told his parents about her and they said no. She's American and divorced, and he's never been with a girl. They didn't want him to marry her, so he was going to break up with her. She convinced him to see her that night to talk it over. But instead of going to Starbuck's, she sneaks the guy into her house, into the basement. Her dad felt like something was up, so he came and eventually found the guy hiding in the basement and kicked him out. My friend had removed her hijab, so that was just another strike against her in her dad's eyes. He proceeded to beat the tar out of her, and I mean, punching her in the face and everything. Her mother told her that she had just stopped him from killing her, he was that angry. Her mother, who encourages the fornication of her non Muslim cousins and what not, then told my friend that she had shamed the honor of their family and disowned her. Now, the young guy says that he is going to marry her despite what Mama and Baba say. She says she is going to marry him in a few mos. Her dad is relucantly accepting this engagement. Even though she's in big trouble, he still let her come to my house and here's where my trouble starts. I don't know what to say to her. I think this boy is just here from his country, and he wants to date, but he doesn't want to be with a non Muslim, so he finds this girl who is longing to do something, longing to be with a guy, and he hooks up with her. I've seen it before. (NO, she says they haven't done anything like THAT). Mama and Baba disapprove, and Romeo says he will defy them, but in the end, in every case like this I've seen (he's from a verrrry rural area to boot), the guy always ends up doing what his parents wish, and dumping the girl. I feel like... because of the way this brother is raised, he is going to hang around with this girl, who is Muslim, and makes him feel good about dating, but he would never marry her. Her sneaking him into the home and removing her hijab will only be against her, because if this engagement does go through, her father will be talking to his parents, and I have no doubt that he will bring this up. Aside from that, I think that if he *does* end up married to her, I fear that he will be very similar to her first husband, even though they are much closer in age (4 yrs instead of 12). He is from the same type of rural background, where women don't go out and about and speak up and what not. I'm afraid, as is her father, that this guy could end up to be another wife beater (ironically, this is her father's fear). I don't know what to say to her. I think if I tell her this stuff that she'll get mad and that will drive her into his arms, so to speak. I know her parents are hoping I will talk some sense into her head, but on the other hand, I am so angry that her parents beat the stuffing out of her like that (her face was all messed up, and she lost consciousness). I feel like... why should I be a fixer in this situation, when you yourselves have done a worse haram than she has? Threatening to kill her? Disowning her? Her mother refuses to speak to her, and says she has no daughter. She has not stopped meeting with this guy, the last I talked to her. If her dad finds out about this (and he probably will now that Mom is on his side and against her), he will probably beat her again. And I'm afraid that she will become the next honor killing headline. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Saleema |
| 03/02/01 at 16:49:20 |
| Assalam ualykum, woah. woah. may Allah forbid that she become the next honor killing headline. may Allah forbid it and guide her and protect her. i don't even know what to say. this family has problems. marriage at 15?! what was she and her parents thinking? ok that was the past... now... oh man... perhaps I should not have even written. inshallah someone else will have something to say? what kind of convert is her mother!? my gosh you would expect her to be better regarding that kind of stuff... i think i will just make a specail dua for her, don't know what to say. why can't she meet a guy from the US whose attitude may not be that abusive and macho like? sorry, that's not advise, i really am baffled. i thought i had seen some strange stuff but that just beats all i have seen. wassalam, Saleema |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Daud |
| 03/02/01 at 17:12:45 |
| I had the same reaction, I have no idea what to say. Unfortunately in life, there are times when there is nothing you can do. People have to WANT to straighten their lives out, sometimes there is just simply nothing you can do. Well, not nothing, actually there is SOMETHING you can do,and that is to make Du'aa to our Rabb to guide her. Wassalam |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Arsalan |
| 03/02/01 at 17:35:53 |
| [slm] The girl needs to be convinced that this is not the right kind of guy for her. Why doesn't she see the *real* danger that this guy may do the same thing that her previous husband did to her? This marriage should not take place, because it is based on all the wrong things! You need to drive some sense into her, since you are her friend. You should also ask your husband to talk to her parents to deal with her with wisdom rather than uncontrolled anger! Afterall, it's *their* fault that she has grown up to be like this. They are the upbringers. They are the parents! Sorry I couldn't be of too much help. I think we need a Muslim Dr. Laura Slassinger! Sad that the Ummah is in the pathetic state of needing such a character. But this is the reality. May Allah put some sense in this Ummah of ours before it's too late. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/02/01 at 17:40:45 |
| slm The situation that you described is very unfortunate, and it is outrageous what happened to this girl, physically abused like this, as well as emotionally. However, how did all of this come about? She went out with a guy, brought him home took off her hijab, clearly unacceptable behavior, and was caught by her parents doing this haraam action. Obviously they weren't going to be too thrilled about it, and looks like in a fit of anger (thought its no excuse) the girl was hurt physically. What this girl needs is some sensible friend (you) to talk to her and advise her Islamically that we don't date, and this is just going to lead to emotional problems. That she needs to end this relationship now, or if she is too emotionally involved with this guy, talk to her parents about getting her married right away, and make sure the guy is a good Muslim. Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 7.27 Narrated by Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser." Your husband seems like he's on talking terms with the girls parents, maybe he can talk to them and help in calming things down. I know you are angry at her parents, but what is done is done, and now this mess needs to be solved, and she needs someone she can turn to, and it should probably be you. Insha'Allah things work out. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| savannah |
| 03/02/01 at 18:59:37 |
| Asalaamu aleykum, Wow. It is hard to think what to say. I do know that often people are drawn to the same kind of people again and again. It looks to me like maybe underneath this girl feels that this is the way she "is supposed" to be treated. So unconsciously, she "looks" for familiar people who will treat her that way. Considering her mother's disinterest in her and her father's abuse, I am not surprised by her behavior. If they have taught her that she does not matter, then it is no wonder that perhaps she feels she does not matter too. Has her father abused her like that before this? My heart goes out to her. I wont go into details, but i come from an abusive family and grew up with low self-esteem. I didnt think i "deserved" to be treated with respect so i was always drawn to the kind of people who were abusive. It was only when i wondered why everyone i befriended abused me that i began to see that for some reason i was drawn to these kind of negative people. Dont get me wrong please. It is not that you WANT to be abused but it is human nature to be drawn to people who feel familiar to you even if they are not good for you. If that is the case with this girl, the only thing i can suggest is to ask "gently" if this is the kind of pattern she is following. I agree with the others that maybe you and your husband can talk with her parents. Is there any way you can discuss this with your Imam? She almost seem self-destructive as if she doesn't care what happens to her. It is good that you obviously care for her and you and your husband can be good role models for her. I will pray for this girl too. Take care |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/03/01 at 12:00:24 |
| [slm] Yes, her father was abusive to her in her life. The lifestyle in the home is one where Islam is what upholds the culture of back home, especially when it comes to the girl's "honor." The culture is more important, or Islam is only a means to the end of culture. And the most important thing in that cultural life is the honor of the wife and the girls, especially the girls. It is not unusual for her dad to slap her or punch her for just little things, like he gets mad. I don't know if he hits the mom. He usually doesn't let her do anything at all, I mean, she is like a bird in a gilded cage. She has the fancy car, the gold, the closet full of clothes, even a fur coat. But she feels trapped. I understand, because my parents were exactly the same, we were raised the same way, the same lifestyle practically. But my parents were never this suffocating and overbearing. I just wasn't allowed to date or go places like parties, or the mall alone, and stuff, I could still have friends over or go to a female friends house, and besides that, my mom always made sure to have lots of cool things to do with me, so that I didn't really miss being free like my friends as much as she has. They forbid her, and then don't give her anything as an alternative. It's been even harder for her since she divorced and returned home, because she did have a greater measure of freedom in that sense with her husband (because when he wasn't beating her or verbally abusing her, he didn't really care what she was doing, where, or when, as long as she was with good sisters). She started wearing hijab at about 11, but it wasn't for anything. It was just, "oh you're a woman now, you must cover, this is our way, this is what a good girl does." Covering was the end all be all of her existence, it was something she was forced into, she didn't know why she should, only that, "I'm Muslim, I'm Arab, this is what I have to do." She's never been into hijab, and on the few occasions when she's had freedom from the husband or the parents, I know she once went to school without it on, and she didn't care. It didn't mean anything to her. (Aside from this thing of taking it off in front of this fiance to be, she has grown more into accepting hijab and modesty since she got divorced). The mom keeps telling everyone but her husband how she is going to divorce him and then go get lots of boyfriends. When her non Muslim relatives come over, she jokes with them about sex, and encourages them who to date, what date they should "do it" on, and all kinds of things like that. My friend says this is why she thought that her mother would be okay with her being alone with the guy in public, especially in the light of the fact that they've never touched in that way, or held hands or anything like that. As for my husband, he doesn't know about this. I think if he does, he will forbid me to talk to her at all, and I don't know that he will feel comfortable to talk to her dad. He doesn't condone child beating, wife beating, or honor killing AT ALL, but... She has maybe three friends who are practicing. I'm the only one of all her friends who knows about this, because she is afraid the rest will rat her out to her dad. There was a man of knowledge here who knew about her previous situation (with her marriage), and he was the only one who she would talk to. (she really has strong feelings of mistrust about religious leaders, especially the ones who are of Arab origin, because of her past experiences with her husband, and how all of them ignored her suffering and wouldn't help her or blamed her). He was the only one she trusted. Now he returning back overseas, and there will be no one that she trusts to know about this situation I think. I'm waiting for her to contact me. I don't want to call the house and get an earful from her parents. I feel that they may have canceled her seperate line, and I know her mother already tried to cancel her cellular, by falsely reporting it stolen to get it turned off. As for this new guy, I raised with her the idea that he would be just like her first husband, and I asked about it gently. Because this guy and the husband do have almost identical backgrounds. This guy just came here from back home, so he's been completely raised in that culture. She says she thinks he can be different, because he is only 24, where as her husband was 27 when she married him (at 15). I don't know, I don't see much of a difference between 24 and 27. She thinks she can mold him, but isn't that a classic sign or something with women who go with abusers over and over again? I want to kind of steer her away from this guy, but I think if she catches me doing it, it will drive her more to him, and away from me (the only person she is trusting right now, ie, her only outlet in this crazy family). She knows what Quran and Sunnah say about this type of thing, but it's like in one ear and out the other. It doesn't reach her, it doesn't impact her. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| se7en |
| 03/03/01 at 12:41:09 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, This is like a lesson plan on how to mess up your child. Use Islam in a cultural context, don't teach your child jack about Islam or the reasoning behind its legislation, don't create Islamic alternatives for your child, restrict her from doing halal things so that she will turn to haram, be so extreme in your restrictions that she will feel the need to rebel, be a bad example of a Muslim yourself... Take a lesson from this. This is what happens if you don't teach your children to love Islam. One day you'll find your child doing something you can't believe, and it'll be because you didn't do anything to prevent it. And to try to change your child's behavior is a million times harder than guiding it when they were young. I think savannah is right in that this is a symptom of a problem she has that is rooted in the way her parents, especially her father, treat her/have treated her growing up and their relationship. I've seen this before, when it's a consistent pattern like this it usually stems from a messed up relationship with her father. But patterns can be broken. Issues can be resolved. And like they say, the first step is admitting you have a problem. You know her, I don't, so I can't tell you if it'd better to just break things down for her, show her what she's doing in no uncertain terms, or approaching her gently about all these things. Don't trash the guy she's with, because that automatically puts up a defense... but tell her straight up how messed up this whole thing is, and the concern you have for her and her well being. What's giving Qur'anic ayaat going to do for her if she doesn't believe in Allah? She needs to know Islam, believe in it, before she can practice it properly. You're shocked she took her hijab off? I'm surprised that's all she did. If it has no meaning to you it's not stopping you from doing anything. It's like that retarded movie, the Princess and the Marine. That girl had *no* grasp of what Islam was and what Islam was about, it was nothing but a fence that restricted her... a fence she jumped when she met a guy who caught her eye. This boy she's with is a loser. Really, in the true sense of the word. If he cared about her *at all*, he would treat her with the proper respect and honor a Muslim woman is due, meaning he wouldn't be playing games, hiding from her parents, having these secret rendezvous points....he would approach her and her parents like a man and ask for her in the appropriate way. I've seen too many cases like this for me to have sympathy for this guy. He's doing wrong by her every single time they have one of these meetings. Tell her that if he had any respect for her or cared about her at all this is not the way they would pursue their relationship. He's making something that can be pure and beautiful and happy into a dirty little secret. He's using her for entertainment while he's here, but when he goes back home he'll most likely marry a parentally-approved good innocent chaste little girl who would never do such things before marriage. She has to know that... he's using her. And when he goes back home he'll most likely wash his hands of her and go home to his pure wife. Ugh.. this girl needs to get her act together before she destroys her chances of having a good, functional relationship with a good man, and living a happy life. May Allah guide her, may Allah guide us all. wAllahu alam wasalaamu alaykum |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/04/01 at 00:35:57 |
| >>What's giving Qur'anic ayaat going to do for her if she doesn't believe in Allah?<< I don't know what you read, but she does believe in Allah, and she prays 5 times a day. Since she left her husband, she's been moving more towards Islam, praying, fasting, reading Qu'ran, and so on. That is why this thing with the guy and her removing her hijab *was* a shock to me. >>If it has no meaning to you it's not stopping you from doing anything.<< No, I said that was how she was raised. But in the half a year or so that she's been divorced, she's started to learn about the deen on her own, and started to accept it, including hijab. Knowing her like I do, I think she took of the scarf in front of him in this sort of desperate bid to keep him interested or something. Y'know, because he was ready to walk away at that point. But *I* believe her when she swears by Allah that she didn't touch or kiss him. I think her belief in Islam *is* what has kept her from dating (even in hijab, she gets whistled at or propositioned for dates or her phone number by non Muslim guys) or doing anything with this guy. But it is like she is a baby in Islam, it's only been like six months or so that she's been truly trying to live the deen, not her whole life. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| se7en |
| 03/04/01 at 00:42:00 |
| I'm sorry. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/04/01 at 1:14:33 AM |
| AA I'm feeling very angry. Many points strike me here. 1. The girl in question is a victim. Too many people on this board are blaming her. 2. I am literally shaking from hearing about her father's behaviour towards her. He gets upset at what she did. But if he married a mon-muslim, what must HE have been doing when he was dating her ??? This is absolute hypocrisy. Also, the bloody fool should have thought about how his kids would end up before marrying a kafir. 3. If allowed in the Shariah, she should get a court order against her father. HE IS GOING TO KILL HER IF HE IS NOT STOPPED. 4. At the same time, she must be encouraged to continue to practice her Islam. As far as the boy she is dating, either she should marry him or dump him. Alhamodillah, I hope they haven't fooled around, but if they do not get married, it's only a matter of time. If the boy does not agree to marriage straight away, she MUST dump him. 5. Why is it that boys aged 20 can get away with sooo much, but this poor girl is made to suffer ? Why is the whole world so hypocritical about what girls can do and what boys can do ? 6. Anonymous, your friend needs you badly. Keep up your good work. 7. May Allah guide the girl, and help her in her problems, Ameen. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/04/01 at 2:01:39 PM |
| slm [quote] Since she left her husband, she's been moving more towards Islam, praying, fasting, reading Qu'ran, and so on. That is why this thing with the guy and her removing her hijab *was* a shock to me. [/quote] If something isn't done, this thing can progress even further and that won't be the only thing that will shock you. You need to explain to her about the consequences of engaging in haraam behavior with a guy. It sounded like she was at least working to improve herself, but then this guy came along. She has to forget about this guy completely, because if this continues, it will just be an emotional nightmare for her. The scholar Ibn Qayyim wrote about this subject in his book Al-Jawab Al-Kafi, and brother Hisham had translated an interesting excerpt (I think it was him ???) from there, I don't have it with me here, but tomorrow, insha'ALlah I'll post it up. There's a lot of stories we have seen posted on this board and from people we know who have gone through depression and emotional problems because they engaged in haraam behavior. Talk to the girl and encourage her to do good, to pray, fast, discuss Islam with her, be supportive of what good she has done. Maybe you can talk to the girl's mother and try to re-establish good ties between the mother and daughter. It sounds like the parents think you are a good influence on her. Tell the parents you want to help the daughter and that you are concerned for her well being. Of course there is only so much one person can do, and sometimes that isn't enough. Pray that Allah (SWT) guides her, and insha'Allah we will do the same. May Allah (SWT) reward you. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/04/01 at 3:15:06 PM |
| AA Bhaloo, I have great respect for you, but again everyone talks about the haram behaviour of the girl and ignores the less than halal behaviour of everyone else. From what Anonymous says, this girl is more practicing at 20 then I was at that age. But of course, I got away with everything 'cos I was a boy. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Arsalan |
| 03/04/01 at 5:59:19 PM |
| [slm] [quote]I'm feeling very angry.[/quote]Control your anger yaa akhi. [quote]Too many people on this board are blaming her.[/quote]Up until your post, nobody had blamed the girl more than the parents. However, the girl is old enough and *is* partially responsible for her actions at least. [quote]Also, the bloody fool should have thought about how his kids would end up before marrying a kafir.[/quote]Please control your anger yaa akhi. Let's try to choose our words wisely when posting on this board. No profanity should be used. Let's remember the Muslim aadaab, and the prohibition against backbiting your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. Also, if the mother of this girl is a Muslim now, it is inappropriate to refer to her as a "kaafir". And how do you know she was a non-Muslim when she married the Muslim father? As far as everything else that you said, I agree with you. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/04/01 at 6:35:29 PM |
| slm Brother Humble Muslim, from the post we were only told that some of the mother's relatives were non-Muslim, we don't know about the mother. Yes, I agree that what the father did was completely inappropriate, which I mentioned in an earlier post. I just wrote my post with what I felt was the best way for Anonymous to handle the situation. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/04/01 at 8:36:48 PM |
| AA I apologize for getting angry. Also, I misread and thought her mother was non muslim when she married her father; this is not stated anywhere. I ask Allah's forgiveness for using the wrong language. However, I am still very upset and SCARED. To describe attempted murder as "inappropriate" and "a fit of anger" is taking away the danger of one of the TWO problems here : the girl herself, and her father's reaction. The problem I see is that too many of the posts are looking at only one thing i.e. the girl. I am REALLY afraid of what her father is gonna do. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/05/01 at 06:07:27 |
| AA Been thinking about this a bit more. Yes, what the girl is doing is definetly wrong. If she wears a hijab, it seems strange she is dating men. One line that Anonymous could take is to explain that just the lying and deception by itself is a VERY major sin, which should be reason enough to make her stop what she's doing. Also, she needs to be explained that her destiny is very much in her hands. Depending on her actions, either good things or bad things may happen to her. I also think it is wrong to asume that people from the same background are all going to be abusive to women. |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/05/01 at 15:45:11 |
| slm Ok, I found that posting that the brother (I think brother Hisham) put up on the board some time back of Al-Jawab al-Kafi by Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, here it is: AL -JAWAB AL- KAAFI What do the scholars of this deen advise a man afflicted by an affliction ("falling in love"), and it is clear that if this situation continues that it will destroy his dunya and akhira,inspite of the fact he tried every means to prevent this,but it only became worse.what is the way to stop this(obsession)?and how to remove it? may Allah reward you for giving us a fatwa. So he(ibn qayyim) wrote this book Al jawab al kaafi liman s'ala an ad dawa as shafi(the comlpete answer for the one who asked for the comprehensive cure) Al hamdulilah amma bad, it has been established in Al bukharis' adab al mufrad that the prophet(may the peace and blessing of allah be upon him)said " there is no disease Allah sends except for it there is a cure;knows who knows it, ignorant of it who is ignorant of it" Thus, these cures is not just physically, but also for the heart and spiritually. and Allah made our sickness ignorance and its cure asking(knowledge) the scholars "ask the people of knoledge if you dont know" as Allah commands in the Qu'ran. However there is some things you must pay attention to, and that is these duas and ayat that one seeks a cure from, are a means not an end in itself, eventhough it might be beneficial.therefore ,the effect of these dua being accepted,and the ayat being effictive depends on the strength of the concern of the person making the dua and reading these ayat. So whenever these dhikr dont not work it is either due to the weak effort the person put out or something inside of him preventing these adhkar(plural of dhikr) from being accepted. as we can see in medecine,isn't it that we see sometimes that a medicine may not work for someone not because it not right but it can be something natural in that person that prevents it from being accepted. Thus adhkar can be amongst the strongest means to prevent evil and obtain good.but these results can be delayed by that persons' weakness,or he does not like Allah (and he is unaware of it), or he has some enemity towards Allah, or by his eating of haram foods, or simply his heart has become darkened and heedlessness,forgetfullness and idleness has conquered him.This is why we see in the hadeeth in saheeh muslim that the man was on a long trip, his whole body covered in dust, raises his hands to the sky saying "ya rabbi", "ya rabbi" and his food is haram,and his clothing is haram and he live off of the hararm- how does he expects Allah to answer him? As for the issue of "falling in love" he (ibn qayyim) said- most of the sins mankind commit are from 4 doors: 1;looking (noticing)-this is the messanger for desires.and guarding this is the true guarding of the private parts.for whoever throws his glances everwhere opens up him self to detruction. This is wht the prophet(pbuh) said to Ali"do not follow your glance by a second look" and whoever lowers his gaze from a beautiful woman Allah lets him taste the sweetness of emaan until the day of judgement. The first glance gives birth to a thought, then it gives birth to an idea,then desires,then a want, then this strenghtens and it becomes a set mind frame, then there is no stopping. this is why they say having patience on lowering n ones' gaze is much easier than patience on the pain that follows it. And from the consequences of this simple look is hassraat(a feeling of great loss) and it burns the heart, because this person see what he can have and he does not have patience in dealing upon that. and this is the painfull of punishments. Ibn Qayyim continues by saying," and from the amazing ill-effects of staring at another person, is that this look is like an arrow that does not reach the one whom it is sent to, but, instead boomerangs and comes back only to injure the stares, thus causing the heart to ache. and what is more amazing than this is that injuries follows injuries, because this hurt feeling does not prevent this person from seeking their goal.(i understand know what the poor fella from Parphyde was going through when he sang"she keeps on passing me by") as one poet said "drinking is my problem but in it i seek my cure" All these (evil effects of not lowering ones' gaze was just an introduction to show the prohibition of lewdness and tho obligation to protect ones' private parts, this is why the prophet(pbuh) said"the thing that wil most enter people in the fire: the mouth and the private parts." and also in the saheehain(bukhari and muslim)he(pbuh) said " the blood of a muslim is not halal except in 3 cases;the fornicator and the adulterer, a soul for a soul, and the one who apostates breaking off from thejammat" and in this hadeeth the prophet(pbuh) compared zina with kufr. He(pbuh)began with the greatest sins people commit most often in rank - zina, then killing then apostacy,and we seek refuge in Allah from them all. As for zina it erases the rightiousness in the world.when a woman commits zina it uncovers the family awrwah, they have to bow their heads in shame. and if she becomes pregnant there is an abortion, then 2 major sins are combined. and if the child is born the a child that is not wanted enters into the family, the child inherits and is not from them (islamically). and there is much more evil from zina that only Allah knows.( this was 700 years ago in Damascus,Syria when he wrote this; imagine volumes of books he would have to write if he saw whats going on today!) and from the evil efffects of zina,-it leads to poverty and a decreased life span, and it prouduces a darkness in the face of the zaani(fornicator), this is why some scholars pionted out that Allah follows up the ayat 30 in sura Nur "tell the believiers to lower their gaze......"(to the end of the ayat), by saying ayat in 35 "Allah is the light of the heavens and earth"- meaning lower your gaze and the light of Allah will be reflected not only on heart, but also on your face! |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| savannah |
| 03/06/01 at 13:15:16 |
| slm, Please excuse me if i dont make sense sometimes with this post but this problem with your friend really "hits home" with me. Thank goodness she has a friend like you. Although i have not done what your friend has, and i am a revert i think i can understand to a degree why she is behaving the way she is. When you do not care for yourself, and have been taught you dont matter, people often are self-destructive. The abuse she has endured from her father has made her afraid of men. She may not appear to be, but you said yourself that there was only one man she could trust. She may feel deep inside all men are the same and will do the same to her. If she is not aware of the repeating pattern she is in, she is not going to be able to change it. I am saying what i am about men because the abuse i had from my own father left me feeling that i do not deserve any better, and even though i knew logically that not all men are the same, the little girl deep inside was still afraid (often you feel that you must have done something to be treated that way). I was drawn to people who would act out the way my father treated me. It took me a long time before i saw the pattern i was following. I was just too terrified of men to even think of going out or anything which was a blessing in disguise for me. The only thing i can suggest with your friend is to let her see you with your husband. Let her see that there is at least one man who is not like her father. Is there any way you can let her see some brothers who are kind? I do not mean trying to set her up with a prospective husband or even having her talk to them at all! Only that maybe if she can observe and see from a distance that there are kind men around. I still have a lot of trouble being around men myself, and i literally panic when anyone mentions trying to arrange a marriage for me. I go way out of my way to avoid men but i did meet one brother who was very kind. I said the Shahadah to his wife so they are very special to me. I still assume when i first see a man that he is going to be like my father, but once i am able to observe the man doing something as simple as holding a child or helping someone in need, then i think ok there is one more kind man around. I am sorry if this doesnt make sense. Take care, |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| chachi |
| 03/06/01 at 15:38:14 |
Salaam Her father is responsible for the way his wife is ... And her mother is responsible for the way she is.. If she wasn't taught anything about her family honour then it is no wonder she has no knowledge of it...to quote shakespeare 'My honour is my life..' Islam gives honour to the wretched of the earth ..but this crown can only be worn if you can carry it's weight.. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/08/01 at 15:43:02 |
| [slm] No,her mother was not Muslim when she married, so yes,her dad did date her. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, maybe, but her mom's sins were wiped clean when she converted, and her father never allowed her herself to date (obviously). I talked to her the other day. The guy asked for her hand, and her dad is thinking about it. I had words with her. I think she is so desperate to get married or at least engaged, so she can have this guy in her life to validate her that she isn't even looking at what she is doing, what she wants to do, who he is, etc. She hasn't even been divorced six months, and she's already telling me "Oh, why shoudl I have to go live without a guy." I told her she was stupid if she keeps meeting this guy behind her dad's back. I told her look, the guy asked for your hand, your dad is thinking about it, I think you need to lay off. If your dad finds out you are seeing him now, you KNOW what is going to happen to you, and FURTHERMORE if this guy cared about you as much as he says he does, he wouldn't meet you in secret because he knows what will happen if you get caught. Then she started complaining about how all she wants to do is have some fun. She cited some of our circle who were non Muslims in their youth as "Oh they got to have fun, so they know what it is like, so it's easy for them to say don't do it." I said, It's not fun. Stop believing the WB hype. That lifestyle, dating, or going to bars / clubs is NOT fun, and it makes you very insecure. I said those peeps are not having as much fun as they look like they are on "Felicity." Then she started making excuses for why she stopped praying (I asked her if she made istakhaara for this marriage, and she said no, and that led to this). She claims she will start being practicing again when she marries THIS particular guy (holding her deen hostage???). I told her she could die tomorrow in a car crash, and she said heaven and hell don't mean much to her. She was like, If I'm going to hell, I'm going to hell, and I mean of course I want to go to heaven, but I'm going to end up in either one (being a fatalist). She said, "oh but if you knew how hard my life is, i just can't pray right now." I said, girl, with all due respect, the Sahaaba had it a LOT worse than you, being tortured, their family killed, their businesses taken away, their homes destroyed, being forced to live in the desert, and THEY prayed and fasted and YOU have it hard because your Muslim parents won't let their Muslim daughter date???? PLEASE! On top of this, a few weeks ago, before this all went down, a guy who is friends with her dad came and asked for her. He makes good money, verrrry good money, but he isn't educated beyond vocatioal or high school or something. He is definitely a practicing Muslim. Now she's thinking she should marry him because of the duckets he makes. On top of that, her mom came in the room while we were on the phone, and said that she had been waiting an hour to make a particular phone call, and could she get off the phone now. I heard the mom, she wasn't being nasty or rude, but my friend responded to her, "didn't we have this agreement that we are going to be nice? So why are you coming in here timing my phone calls? I'll lbe off when I'm off, you can wait, Who do you have to call, what's so important?" and just being very rude to her mom. Then she says tome, "You see what I'm dealing with here?" I couldn't believe my ears. To me, the fact that on the one hand, she is willing (she says) to get beat down by her dad for this first guy, and claims she is soooo in love with him that she can't hold off the engagement until after the summer, and then on the other hand, she's eyeing this other guy's wallet shows me that she is still verry immature, and not ready for marriage at all. Nor does she reallly want to hear any advice from me, she just wants to complain to me about how hard she has it, about how "I tried to be all Little Miss Religious and Good (for two months), but I just want to have fun now." She doesn't want advice, she just wants someone to tell her that what's she's donig is okay and that her parenst are the ones who are whack. Yes, I still believe her father was very wrong to beat her, and that her mom is wrong to say that she's going to go get a boyfriend and divorce her dad (if she really does say this), but now I see that it is 100% a two way street there. This girl has been behaving in an extremely childish manner, and I've only been her accomplice in it for the last month or so by being her audience. She is not going to listen to what I say or anyone else says. I told her she was following her lower self and she said she didn't care. Okay, as long as you're ready to live with the consequences. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/08/01 at 16:07:28 |
| slm [quote] but now I see that it is 100% a two way street there. This girl has been behaving in an extremely childish manner, and I've only been her accomplice in it for the last month or so by being her audience. She is not going to listen to what I say or anyone else says. I told her she was following her lower self and she said she didn't care. Okay, as long as you're ready to live with the consequences. [/quote] Yes, there are two sides to every story, and sometimes we learn that the hard way. Sometimes the people we think we are helping are the victims, when in fact they are the ones responsible for the evil (not saying that applies here, just from my personal experiences). Its a hard lesson to learn, and insha'Allah we should try and keep an open mind to things and try and look at from the view of other people's perspectives. As for this girl, it seems like she is just interested in having "fun" and really doesn't care who she marries. From what you have related it sounds like she feels like she has missed out on life because she didn't date or other foolishness that she picked up from shows like Felicity and Dawson's Creek. Her father is even considering this guy for marriage that she had been secretly seeing, and that is very reasonable of him. The girl's behavior towards the mother was rude also. I think it would be best if she does get married, so she doesn't engage in any inappropriate behavior (i.e. dating and being alone with a guy). |
| NS |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Arsalan |
| 03/08/01 at 16:51:12 |
| [slm] How long is the iddah period supposed to be after divorce? |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Kathy |
| 03/08/01 at 18:15:52 |
| slm 3 months- 3 monthly menses. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| Al-Basha |
| 03/08/01 at 20:14:55 |
| [slm] Sis, you know what i recommend you just stop giving her naseeha all together, because it seems like she is not sure about what she wants to do in her life. The deal with giving naseeha is this: The person can either reject or take it. Khalas. If they begin to make excuses for one or the other side it means that they want a reason from someone other than themselves to reject the other side. I've been in situations like this before, and I ended up depressed, mad and worried. Over what? You know if the person is reckless and unconcerned with their lifestyle then khalas, you did your part so on the day of judgement she will not be able to make the excuse that no one tried to help her. I know this sounds harsh, but I've learned the "hard way" that sometimes you just have to give people the cold shoulder. Wa Allahu A3laam |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| JustMe |
| 03/12/01 at 02:36:47 |
| Have you tried getting her a therapist. I mean she did get beat up. I bet she feels totally degraded and humiliated that's why doesn't care much. Ask her if she does care about anything. Maybe a hobby or some interest that might divert her attention from her problems. Maybe you can share in the experience with her or as she pleases. I'll bet she has no motivation either. She'll just fall for anything that moves since her humanity and self-worth has been so utterly humiliated. She needs someone to cry on and she's desperate I guess. If nothing works out do get her to a therapist. My prayers. |
| Re: My Friend -- HELP desperate. |
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| savannah |
| 03/12/01 at 21:25:42 |
| slm, I just wanted to make clear that i am NOT blaming your friend. Yes she is responsible for her behavior now that she is not a child anymore even if she is immature, but ultimately the majority of responsiblity lies with her parents. It sounds like either they did not bring her up the way parents should, or they were not consistant with it. The problem now is that she is not a child anymore and it is a bit late to try and start bringing her up properly. All you can do is pray for her and keep up the good work as her friend. At the same time, keep on trying to get her to realize how self-destructive she is. It is one of the hardest realizations a person can learn about themselves. Your friend sounds an awful lot like my cousin even though he is not muslim. In his case, he was abused by his mother and his father didn't bring him up with the proper values. He is so self-destructive that i am afraid he might do harm to himself or others if he continues on the path that he is. Everyone can see the warning signs but predictably he cant. Noone can change their behavior unless they realize they have a problem and from what i have seen with people including myself, it is rare for people to be so introspective. Sometimes it takes a person getting a few knocks in life until they finally realize what they are doing. Short of kidnapping your friend and locking her in a room, there is not much you can do aside from praying for her and especially to be there for her when she really needs a friend. Again i would like to say i am not blaming your friend here. My heart goes out to her and to you, and i pray that Allah will help her in her time of need. |
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