Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
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| Anonymous |
| 03/18/01 at 18:17:20 |
| Assalam-u-alaikum brothers and sisters: Before I converted to Islam, I was married, and in an abusive relationship, which I got a divorce from before I converted, even before I knew I wanted to convert. From this relationship, I have 3 kids. Being almost 30 years old, with 3 kids, and having many friends who say that there is no Muslim brother who will "ever" marry me (because i'm not a virgin), I hope to get some input from all of you. Inshallah, not all men think the way my friends (non-muslim) do. Has anyone of you ever been involved insomething like this? Do you know of anyone with the same problem? Any help, good or bad is welcomed :-) wasalaam |
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| JustMe |
| 03/19/01 at 05:41:23 |
| How to begin? I'm sorry of what happened to you in the past. About the idea that muslim men won't marry non-virgin females. I don't think so. Why because Personally I've never slept with a girl but am open to marriage with a divorced female because to me divorce is a part of reality (whether they wanna admit it or not) especially today in Both western and eastern cultures (and there is nothing in Islam that says you shouldn't marry a divorcee). I think sometimes muslim men start thinking of it in distorted ways and lose proper perspective of sexuality within the concept(s) of marriage and divorce. Currently, I am talking to a girl who is a divorcee. She said she had a lot of personal problems and the marriage lasted only a month. (I like her because of her excellent sense of humor). If it was a lot longer I would probably have to have an open and honest communication with her to see what she's really like. I think because 'muslim men'(i can't speak for all of them) want purity I think they should look for it in the right place(s). If they are looking for a virgin girl then it doesn't mean that they are getting someone who is pure- it just means that they are virgins. a=a and b=b and if its as boring as that then why get into a relationship after all. The relationship must have something more meaningful to it than mere sexuality. That is selfish and if 'muslim men' see that in their logbook for the future then they probably don't know how to choose their partner. I say its selfish because its totally unfair and demeaning to a lot of women who have already suffered a great enormous deal. I think 'muslim men' in that respect should outgrow their childish tendencies. Being an indopak i do notice people putting a 'preference' on virgins but my cousin married a divorcee and he couldn't be happier in his marriage. Also I think its important to fudge the being divorced part on the part of the divorcee themselves- at least this is something that makes me feel more comfortable but this is a problem with me not the divorcee and is something of a defense that the divorcee can use to not harm their 'beleaguered image'. With kids the guy has to be in a position first to be able to support the kids and secondly he has to love children. I think what really resolves the matter is proper contact with a muslim man. i.e. the right muslim man for you. because by communication he will marry you for your humanity. at least that's what i think. I hope that holds true for the men out there. Men out there are you listening????? Wa'salaam Sis |
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| BrKhalid |
| 03/19/01 at 07:53:24 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Being almost 30 years old, with 3 kids, and having many friends who say that there is no Muslim brother who will "ever" marry me (because i'm not a virgin), I hope to get some input from all of you[/quote] The following verse sprang to mind: Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable. [24:26] |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/19/01 at 10:45:08 |
| AA Br. Khalid, Astaghfirullah! That ayat does NOT apply to men and women who converted to Islam, or to those who have committed zina and then repented. Please do not make extra difficulties for the sister by quotung the Quran out of context. |
| NS |
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| Arsalan |
| 03/19/01 at 10:49:28 |
| [slm] Whoa! BrKhalid, I don't think that verse has *any* context here! And Allah knows best. When the verse mentions "impure men" and "impure women", it's talking about chastity. Pure men and women are people who guard their chastity. Thus the verse is saying that let the unchaste marry the unchaste and the chaste marry the chaste. The issue with Anonymous is whether it is convenient, nowadays, to find a man who is willing to marry a divorced Muslimah with 3 kids. I'd say check www.zawaj.com for matrimonials. I think there's also plenty of divorced men out there, and some of them may be looking for divorced women. It's possible to find unmarried men who will marry a divorcee, but it's tough. May Allah help you. Wassalamu alaikum. |
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| Magableh |
| 03/19/01 at 10:50:03 |
| Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu. Please forgive my ignorance, but can you please explain to me how a woman convert can be considered impure? Aren't all of her past sins forgiven when she converts, as if she is *clean as a baby*? Wa'assalam Serena |
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| Magableh |
| 03/19/01 at 10:52:21 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, Sorry, the above posts came before mine. Thanks for explaining :) Wa'assalam |
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| BrKhalid |
| 03/19/01 at 11:06:06 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]That ayat does NOT apply to men and women who converted to Islam, or to those who have committed zina and then repented. [/quote] Agreed [quote]When the verse mentions "impure men" and "impure women", it's talking about chastity. Pure men and women are people who guard their chastity. Thus the verse is saying that let the unchaste marry the unchaste and the chaste marry the chaste.[/quote] Agreed [quote]Please forgive my ignorance, but can you please explain to me how a woman convert can be considered impure? Aren't all of her past sins forgiven when she converts, as if she is *clean as a baby*? [/quote] She isn't impure The point which I was trying to make (and which I clearly didn't) was that the Sister shouldn't worry about whether she will "ever" marry a Muslim Brother for Allah [swt] has promised her (now that she is pure, chaste) someone of her ilk. Yes the main point is about how difficult it is for divorced converts to find suitable husbands. But I wanted to point out that if a woman is pure and chaste (as our Sister appears to be), Allah [swt] will grant a pure and chaste husband. But given the responses I can see I wasn't clear enough in making this point for which I am duly sorry.:( |
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| Magableh |
| 03/19/01 at 12:16:26 |
| Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu. Br. Khalid, thanks for clarifying this issue. I had to sit and reflect on a few things before I posted this message. Sister Anonymous, This post is very hard for me to write. Although I am usually a private, and very shy Sister, your message really made me think of my past. I am a convert also...I converted in April of 2000. And, I am a single mom. I have a 10 year old daughter from a previous marriage. I was a virgin when I was married, and I was divorced almost 2 years before I converted, which, since then, I have not had relations with anyone! My situation is so similar to yours, that it's kinda scary! :) My ex-husband was a very heavy drinker. He was not abusive to me, but he was verbally abusive to my daughter. To make a long story short, one evening, he got drunk, after drinking an entire bottle of 80% proof Brandy. My daughter was sick, with an ear infection...she was laying on my lap, crying from the pain. My ex came out of the room, grabbed her off of my lap, by her arm, and threw her into the wall. She fell to the floor, unconscious. :( Her face was swollen and bruised for weeks. As you can guess, I immediately left him (while he was in jail) and filed for divorce. Since then, he has not contacted myself, or my daughter. And, maybe this is bad to say, but I am so HAPPY that he hasn't! Today, my daughter is a very happy, intelligent Muslimah. She prays with me 5 times a day, reads Quran...and reminds me of my obligations, when sometimes I forget. This is what Allah (swt) has decreed for me. Insha'Allah, I will one day find a husband who will have the same (if not better, as I am still learning) morals, values and strength in Deen that I have. And Insha'Allah, one day you will have the same. Keep your faith strong...I do believe that there are strong Muslim men out there who will be more than happy to marry a divorcee with children. As I have met a few. I will make du'a for you...and I ask our brothers and sisters to do the same. If I have offended you by this email, may Allah (swt) forgive me. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. Keep the faith! :) Wa'assalam, Serena |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/19/01 at 13:01:06 |
| AA Br. Khalid, Please forgive me if I was too harsh on you. |
| NS |
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| jannah |
| 03/19/01 at 13:11:24 |
| [slm] Sister Serena thank you for posting that publicly. Your faith is inspiring. Br. Khalid that was a great verse too (when read in context :)) |
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| momineqbal |
| 03/19/01 at 15:04:33 |
| Assalam Aleikum sister who posted this! I know a sister with somewhat similar background as yours. Only thing I would like to bring to your notice is that she hastened in her marriage after reverting to Islam and then she had an unhappy marriage and had to divorce. But Alhamdulillah she is married again and all is going well. May Allah bless her. So take your time with this and hopefully you will find a good brother inshaAllah. You could get yourself (along with the kids) involved with the community and/or talk to the Imam of your local mosque who might help you inshaAllah. Wassalam |
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| BrKhalid |
| 03/19/01 at 16:16:54 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Br. Khalid, Please forgive me if I was too harsh on you[/quote] Not at all bro One of the beauties of this board is that there are always Brothers and Sisters who will challenge someone if anything untoward is said about Islam and long may that continue. Anyway let’s not get distracted from the subject of the thread. Sr Serena only Allah [swt] knows how many Sisters will read your post and will gain comfort and solace from it. And for our Sister who posted I just wanted to reiterate the last part of the verse again: “these (ie the women of purity) are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness and a provision honorable” Allah [swt] will provide for you no matter what your many friends may say |
| The Worth of You |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 03/19/01 at 17:58:31 |
| Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem. Dear Sister Anonymous, Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah. I’d like to open by saying to both yourself and Sister Magableh/Serena that my heart goes out to each of you. It is almost more than I can bear to learn of Sister’s who have suffered abuse at the hands of men. When I read your words (both of you) I had to withhold my tears, lest they blur my vision as I wrote this. However, I pray to Allah (swt) to preserve what some may consider a weakness within me (i.e. to react in such a manner) in me, for I would rather be weak yet sensitive to the issues my beloved Muslim Sister’s face, than strong and heartless. That is not to admit that I agree with those oafs who view such sensitivity as a sign of undermining masculinity, a’uzubillah, may Allah (swt) Guide us all to that which is the Prophetic example. I would like to say that I have never come across a Brother who has a pure unadulterated understanding of this Noble Deen, who considers a divorced Sister as being unworthy of his hand in marriage. On the other (sad) hand, I have seen Brothers on the Deen, whose Islam was still hued by cultural misconceptions that there is some kind of a stigma attached in marrying a divorced woman, wal iyadhubillah. And believe me, such Brothers are not even worth the blessed company of such a Noble Sister. You deserve more than that, from Islam. To be fair, sometimes it is not the Brothers themselves, but pressure from culturally-driven parents that prevents them from marrying a divorced Sister. This is less to do with such a Brother’s erroneous notions, and more to do with his weakness. Of course, in the parents psyche they are just trying to do right by their son. Unbeknownst to them they are not acting in a manner befitting a Muslim. Other times, if such a marriage entails taking on children too, then the financial responsibility seems off putting, though in reality, this too requires a higher plane of thinking. As a Brother only the other day remarked to me concerning his baby daughter, that with babies, comes rizq, so people shouldn‘t worry about this. Indeed a profound remark upon reflection. You see, as Muslims, we need to raise the bar when it comes to our conduct. Muslims traditionally considered not just themselves, but the needs of their communities. Their decisions would be taken with this in mind, to not only optimise their own situation, but act in accordance with what is required as part of a collective. Many instances that illustrate this exist within the ennobled example of that first generation, who accompanied our Beloved Prophet (saw), and witnessed the descent of wahy [revelation]. In our times we notice a need to marry divorced Sisters, since culturally *not Islamically* for too long now, there has been an unjustified stigma attached to such women which renders them un-remarriable in too many communities, astaghfirullah. It is not only confined to the issue of virginity. I have found that often there is some unwarranted presumption of blame projected onto the Sister that if she is divorced, then she must have contributed to it somehow, for there is no smoke without fire. A’uzubillah to such foul reasoning, may Allah (swt) protect such Sisters from such an outrageous slur. I hope that that does not extend beyond my own experiences, so that it cannot be a generalisation. And even if virginity is desired, it is not a pre-condition of marriage that the Shari’ah stipulated. It is not obligatory that either or both parties in the relationship be virgins. Islam is a Deen that deals with *all* realities, and every eventuality, and so as Muslims we too need to think along such mature lines too. We have to rise above the idealism of our dreams, and deal with the practicalities of life, which is what being a Muslim is often about. One step towards that would be for Brothers to realise the immense baraka in marrying divorced Sisters. Moreso when the divorce was due to some reason that completely exonerates her from any blame whatsoever. Otherwise not providing for her the means to remarry is itself a kind of punishment by the Muslim community, and for what? Reluctance amidst Brothers to marry such wonderful Sisters serves only to perpetuate this disgusting myth about these Sisters, who in many instances seem to be condemned to a life of remaining unmarried, just because they are divorcees, and that too through no fault of theirs! Subhan’Allah. What has she done to warrant being treated in such a selfish manner? She was forced into a divorce through no fault of her own, and now she must pay for that by no one being willing to marry her? Astaghfirullah. What exactly has she done that makes her *less* in the eyes of all these Muslim men/families of Muslim men who judge her without knowing her and any of her plight? Nothing. She is not less. Their repugnant attitude might make her more in the sight of Allah (swt) than they may ever amount to, wallahu a’lam, for this single act of sufferance she undertook, if they don’t fulfill their responsibility towards her as a community, as an Ummah. Treating her like some kind of outcast, as if she is some kind of untouchable because she is a divorcee. Astaghfirullah, how abhorrent a mentality. What kind of sick cultural and unislamic baggage do we allow to lay siege to our minds? Minds that Allah (swt) differentiated us from animals with, that we don’t even use to distinguish between that which is Islam and that which is from other than Islam? So how sweet it is to know of the existence of Brothers who actively marry such Sisters. Not out of pity, but because they are blessed by Allah (swt) to recognise the largesse of such Sisters, masha’Allah. Also of Brothers who facilitate for such Sisters marriage through a polygamous marriage, though I’m not saying that should be the only option for such Sisters. So, I end on a note of hope. That you should know that there are some gems like that around, amongst us Muslim men, who will appreciate you for the blessing that you are, the wisdom that you would bring to a marriage, the experience and maturity, the knowledge of how to love, and be loved, how to give and how to reciprocate, and what it means to value a marriage. A fighter no less, not a passive recipient of oppression and injustice, within the confines of the marital domain. Such a woman is a woman to be proud of, to be viewed as an honour to have by one’s side Brothers. It is your privilege to be able to hold her hand, because that is the hand of a woman who has proved herself capable of doing the right thing in front of her Lord (awj), which took courage and guts. Because she suffered, and did not let it destroy her. Rather she emerged not a victim but a valiant Muslim woman, having overcome that which Allah ta’ala placed before her, and now, now she is deserving of a Brother who marries her because he too realises all this, and so so much more. These are just a few of the benefits of marriage to such wonderful Sisters, wallahu ta'ala a'lam. May Allah (swt) make us Brothers worthy of such - and indeed all of our - Muslim women. In whatever role we are beside them. Ameen. Abu Khaled |
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| meraj |
| 03/19/01 at 18:43:12 |
| slm, [quote]So, I end on a note of hope. That you should know that there are some gems like that around, amongst us Muslim men, who will appreciate you for the blessing that you are, the wisdom that you would bring to a marriage, the experience and maturity, the knowledge of how to love, and be loved, how to give and how to reciprocate, and what it means to value a marriage. A fighter no less, not a passive recipient of oppression and injustice, within the confines of the marital domain. Such a woman is a woman to be proud of, to be viewed as an honour to have by one’s side Brothers. It is your privilege to be able to hold her hand, because that is the hand of a woman who has proved herself capable of doing the right thing in front of her Lord (awj), which took courage and guts. Because she suffered, and did not let it destroy her. Rather she emerged not a victim but a valiant Muslim woman, having overcome that which Allah ta’ala placed before her, and now, now she is deserving of a Brother who marries her because he too realises all this, and so so much more. These are just a few of the benefits of marriage to such wonderful Sisters, wallahu ta'ala a'lam. May Allah (swt) make us Brothers worthy of such - and indeed all of our - Muslim women. In whatever role we are beside them. Ameen.[/quote] inshallah ameen :) mashallah, well said br abu khalid :) i hope may other people will eventually see the issue from that perspective. ma'salaam |
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| jannah |
| 03/20/01 at 00:07:15 |
| wow brothers and sisters you should print out that last paragraph and paste it on your walls and read it everyday :) mashallah but the alliance still holds it's position bro!! :-) |
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| Magableh |
| 03/20/01 at 01:18:13 |
| Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu! Brother Abu Khaled, Masha'Allah! You took my breath away, I'm speechless! Sister Jannah, very good advice! Wa'assalam, Serena P.S. When I regain my *composure*, I'll respond, Insha'Allah! :) |
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| BrKhalid |
| 03/20/01 at 01:52:58 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]To be fair, sometimes it is not the Brothers themselves, but pressure from culturally-driven parents that prevents them from marrying a divorced Sister. This is less to do with such a Brother’s erroneous notions, and more to do with his weakness. Of course, in the parents psyche they are just trying to do right by their son. Unbeknownst to them they are not acting in a manner befitting a Muslim. [/quote] Very good point. Its as if divorced (or widowed) sisters have to get pass both the brother *and* their parents. [quote]In our times we notice a need to marry divorced Sisters, since culturally *not Islamically* for too long now, there has been an unjustified stigma attached to such women which renders them un-remarriable in too many communities, astaghfirullah. It is not only confined to the issue of virginity. I have found that often there is some unwarranted presumption of blame projected onto the Sister that if she is divorced, then she must have contributed to it somehow, for there is no smoke without fire. A’uzubillah to such foul reasoning, may Allah (swt) protect such Sisters from such an outrageous slur. I hope that that does not extend beyond my own experiences, so that it cannot be a generalisation[/quote] Maybe going out on a limb here but I would say this was the rule and not the exception :( Would love to be proved wrong though Br Abu Khaled, I think as you mentioned before attitudes and mindsets have to be changed before serious progress can be made on this issue. Maybe the succeeding generations of Muslims won't have such pre conceived notions. Who knows? As with everyone else though, great final paragraph. |
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| Magableh |
| 03/20/01 at 10:44:40 |
| Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu! Sister Anonymous, I pray that you are doing well. Please come back to the board to let us(me) know how you are! Also, feel free to email me, anytime! I don't know if I could provide you with *knowledge* (as I am a new Muslimah), but I would like to be a comfort to you, if need be, since we are in similar circumstances. :) Brother Abu Khaled, That was the most beautiful, emotionally moving post I have ever read. Masha'Allah! Please excuse my *feeble attempt* at trying to respond to something so overwhelimg! I know of a few brothers who have married divorced women, with children, and they couldn't be happier. Alhamdulillah! It is true, that the misconception many people have nowadays is that *we*, as divorcees, must have done *something* wrong in our marriage, that we must have contributed to it in someway. For me, I didn't feel like I had a choice. I tried, for so long, to stick it out. I suggested counseling, he said "No", so I went myself. My daughter was very young when he started verbally abusing her. I was raised (although without a father) being told that it is best for a child to be raised with both the father and the mother. Which is very true! They need the stability of having both parents. But, my daughter is my #1 priority. I will be held accountable for her well-being. What type of mother would I be if I remained in a relationship that was hurting her, sending her self-esteem plummeting to the floor? If people want to *judge* me for doing what was right by my daughter, then I will suffer any consequences. But, I will not, ever (Insha'Allah) stay in a relationship that puts the life of a child, at risk. I was/am blessed by Allah(swt) to have such a beautiful, devoted, loving daughter, even after the *abuse* she went through. It's true, also, that there are a few women who do, at times, contribute to their divorces, for whatever reason. I'm not one to judge, and won't comment on that...maybe one of you would like to? I'm 28 years old. I had my daughter at a very young age. I had to grow up fast and learn how to be a wife, and a mother. I will be the first to admit that I have made a lot of mistakes. I can't go back and change them, that was God's divine will. But, Alhamdulillah, I have learned from those mistakes, and I have grown from them. I cannot say anything bad about our Muslim brothers. Everyone is different, we all have our *pasts*, and our reasons for making the choices we do, whether it be for cultural, family or other obligations. I was asked, when I first converted, how I felt about polygamous marriages. And honestly, if this is what Allah(swt) willed for me, I would have no problem with it. Altough, in all sincerity, it would not be my first choice. But, it's really not up to me now is it? :) May Allah(swt) bless all of you for your continued assistance. Insha'Allah, I'll be able to post later....right now I have an appointment. :) Wa'assalam, Serena |
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| Kiwaku |
| 03/20/01 at 12:19:53 |
| Let me begin by saying that your post has touched my heart. I am a divorced Brother, who converted to Islam recently. I have two little girls ages 6 and 4 that I take care of... the reason being that my ex-wife was very abusive to them and myself. I know this is an oddity of being a man abused by his wife. But it has happened and I am glad I am out of the relationship. I too have run into trouble in finding a good Muslimah to marry... most parents want their daughters to marry a man who does not have children and has not been married before. This makes it very difficult for me in that I want to raise my children to be good Muslimah, but being that I am a man I could never be able to teach them properly. But that is not the issue at hand. The issue is finding you a good Musilm man. I find it appalling that most men would perfer to marry a previously unwed woman. I think it is selfish and childish. Everything I have read in the Qur'an (and remember I am very new to this) never once pointed out that it is haram to marry a woman that has been divorced. My advice to you is to stay strong in your faith.... Allah will provide in His time.... I am sure things are tough for you, but remember that Allah will never burden you with more than you can handle. Take care and May Allah bless you and your family Wassalam Usamah/Steven |
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| alzinjibar |
| 03/20/01 at 15:11:01 |
| Bismillah Rahman Rahim, wa salatu wa salam ala'a Rasul Karim, as salam alaykum , I forgot something, once in a little masjid facing the sea on the east African coast, an old man taught me at 6 in the morning , that some man will pass by a woman and see nothing in her , others will see a beautifull garden full of colors and shades, scents and joy, and when she's taken care off she'll turn into a symphonie for the receptive hearts, and it's up to one to tilt(?) the garden into a blossoming jewel. ( this is my translation of a line of poetry in swahili wisdom, i'm fully responsible for the error ) |
| NS |
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| te13 |
| 03/22/01 at 10:44:48 |
| Hello to all, First off, let me say that I don't understand why "friends" would tell someone that she won't ever find a husband. Nice support, there. Anyway, my real reason for writing is to share a story from my own family. Back in the sixties, my aunt had, as they say, hit bottom. She was 28 with two young children, a pending divorce and a husband in jail for a filthy crime. Her "friends" told her to get used to being alone, for what man would want to spend his time with a "used up" woman, especially one with two kids, unpaid bills, and sadness in her eyes? And then she met my uncle. He was only 22, and had nothing in this world to recommend him but his hard-working, kind-hearted nature. No one could have guessed it, but he and my aunt saw in each other a peaceful future. They were not "in love" in the Hollywood sense of the word, and instead founded their relationship on decency and respect. They married not long after meeting and my uncle, without a second thought, raised her children as his own along with those they had together. Now, 30+ years later, that decency and respect have grown into 4 children, 3 grandchildren, a lovely home, money in the bank, and an abiding love. Anyway, hope it helps! |
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| BrKhalid |
| 03/22/01 at 11:21:27 |
| Aslaamu Alaikum ;-) Alhamudulillah that was a wonderful story Sister. May Allah [swt] continue to reward your Uncle in this life and in the Hereafter. Its nice to know that there are brothers like that "out there" |
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| jannah |
| 03/22/01 at 12:13:22 |
[quote] Now, 30+ years later, that decency and respect have grown into 4 children, 3 grandchildren, a lovely home, money in the bank, and an abiding love. [/quote] Te that's so beautiful :) so introduce yourself in the bebzi girl!!! |
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| meraj |
| 03/22/01 at 14:22:44 |
| slm, mashallah... awesome story... and welcome aboard... enjoy your stay inshallah :) - the welcoming comittee :) |
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