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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

Leaving Islam
BrKhalid
03/22/01 at 06:58:58
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Anyone come across someone who has left the fold of Islam or have heard of such cases? I'm particularly interested in the *reasons* behind people making such a disastrous step and what we, as Muslims, could practically do to help.

Re: Leaving Islam
Kathy
04/20/01 at 14:36:00
slm Sure, there are a few in our area. One "left" after her husband died. She was a revert- I do not know much about her case. One lady left after divorcing her husband- who beat her for years. We have a few "cupid muslims" -  oh how I hate that term. But these were. In the late 90's til now we had a big influx of "muslims" from NY city- who deal in drugs. Girls would fall in love with them, adopt the style of Muslim women- only to be left and then they too drop our religion. I also know of a woman who is Muslim but not in spirit. She has had years of tyrannical abuse from her husband. Her Islam is what she knows from him. Teenagers- from an immigrant parent and American parent. The parents tried to assimulate when they came to this country. They celebrated the christian holidays, birthdays etc... Then all of a sudden when their girls began to develop- the parents "got religion."  As you can imagine- teenage years normally being a rebellious time, coupled with all of a sudden they feel oppressed- in the name of Islam- the moment they go off to college they abandon their faith. Unfortunately we have way too many cases here., Hense why I am so concerned for my son. Wow- as I re read my post it sounds as if I am man bashing. It just proves that the man of the house is the ameer- the leader.

Re: Leaving Islam
Nazir_Ismail
03/22/01 at 09:30:36
Assalaamu-Alaikum I know of one women who was a revert, who became a kaafir and took her children with her after she found out her husbands was having a long time affair with his brothers wife! Sick, and DISGUSTING, but im my opinion ALL the blame is on the fathers side. He must take the blame for his disgraceful actions. Dont know of Any others.

Re: Leaving Islam
UmmZaid
03/22/01 at 10:48:55
I know a few that were Muslim b/c of thier ex husbands. I also know a few converts who left because, upon converting, they were bombarded with "Sunnah" and the harsh lifestyle that some among us promote, that judgmental mentality, etc.  This is particularly disturbing, b/c it is my experience that people giving da'wa often don't want to explain what Sunnah is, what hadith are, etc.  And then to have this shoved down your throat (as it was for these particular people whom I personally know), is very unsettling.  I don't think we have anything to hide, and I dislike it a great deal when people giving da'wa brush aside questions about Sunnah /  hadith or other more complicated issues in the interest of getting the person to say Shahada as soon as possible.

Re: Leaving Islam
jannah
03/22/01 at 12:25:22
Changing your whole lifestyle, friends, family problems.. everything is affected and it is extremely difficult for new muslims. Not only that but they also now have to deal with US as muslims and everyone bombarding them with what's right and what's wrong! Many tend to jump in trying to do everything at once... hijab, praying, learning arabic, etc.  So after 6 months they can't take it, it's too difficult, too overwhelming, they have doubts...even if they know islam is right is it worth it all?  Again my theorem-- anything that is extreme can't be sustained over time. Islam is really a process of a lifetime, the only real way to affect change is by increments over time. And that's what we should push. We really need to be aloooooot more lenient and open and accepting.  I realize we all think that since Islam has already been fully revealed that we should follow all of it period, but a person needs to grow spiritually and psychologically within themselves to accomodate the outward. So I believe that Islam would truly become a movement in this country if we only had the resources and support for new Muslims. I know dozens and dozens of people who have become Muslim or would if we just had the ability to support them with the proper institutions, classes, halal alternatives to entertainment, friends etc.

Re: Leaving Islam
Anonymous
03/22/01 at 15:17:02
= Assalamu 'Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh Br khalid you had asked "Anyone come across someone who has left the fold of Islam or have heard of such cases? I'm particularly interested in the *reasons* behind people making such a disastrous step and what we, as Muslims, could practically do to help." I know of one who was my friends' wife who did that. They married after she had accepted Islam. The truth of the matter is things like these do not happen overnight but over a long period of time. My friend was a person with a good heart and a lot of bad habits. One bad habit was drinking the other was lying about things for his benefit. Any way my friend would come home drunk and she would admonish him not to but he would not listen until she slowly started not doing things to get him to stop doing his bad habits. This would infuriate him and he would drink more and his wife would not do more things ultimately she was getting him into trouble with the law by having him arrested on flimsy charges and by this time they already had two daughters and she was giving him ultimatums and then she finally decided that enough was enough and turned back to her abandoned religion and divorced him. He does not seem to understand that it was his mistake as much as hers that lead to this sorry state of affairs but he can only blame her but not see his fallacies. Him being drunk almost every day and his lies and his arrogant behavior about how the wife should not question her husbands actions. No amount of pleading on his wife's part and no amount of explanations on my or other friends part helped him Bottom line is in the end the result was that a woman who had accepted Islam, tried living the life as a Muslim had to go back to her previous religion because the person who should have helped her with imparting the knowledge of this noble religion was himself not following it. This is also a good lesson for those people who think it is OK to marry a person who has accepted Islam but they do not practice it own their own. Our beloved prophet (SAW) taught the religion by example and that is the way we as Muslims have to live. Practice what you preach. I understand that the fault lies with her too for not following the religion correctly but without any encouragement and support from her husband it might have been hard on her and that might have lead her to do what she did. I am no way saying what she did was correct. She was a grown woman and she should have followed the religion thru with or without the husbands support, but few people are that strong especially the ones who accept. If we do not help, encourage, support people who are converts than who will. Ma Salaam Bro in Islam

Re: Leaving Islam
meraj
03/22/01 at 18:43:39
slm, [quote]If we do not help, encourage, support people who are converts than who will. [/quote] subhanallah... so true bro... that really needed to be said, and inshallah, we should all try our best to do it.

Re: Leaving Islam
BrKhalid
03/23/01 at 05:34:12
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) The above really gives food for thought eh? The reason this topic came to me was because I remembered an article about a Muslimah who converted and then because of the loneliness she experienced after taking her Shahadah, became a non muslim again:( Reading the above stories, it seems quite clear to me that although we can't be held responsible if a person decides to leave Islam, we probably will be held accountable if we actually help in "pushing" them away. Again from reading above, I think there are two recurring cases which can be identified. The first are those reverts who subsequently find it difficult to incorporate Islam into their lives. The second case I would say are those Muslims who although do not actually "leave" the fold of Islam, find themselves drifting away from their religion until it reaches a stage where they only remember Allah [swt] maybe on one or two occasions during the year. In some ways the latter is just as unnerving (if not more so) than the former. That's the reasons but what can be done? I think Sr jannah hit the nail on the head when saying we need proper institutions. In short we need a local infrastucture in each locality in order to establish a real community spirit amongst ourselves. Everyone could contribute as to what these institutions should be, but at the end of the day, they should be able to cater for everyone right from our youngsters through to our respected elders. In doing this, we can build a strong brotherhood and encourage a sense of belonging, and inshaAllah help prevent brothers and sisters from feeling isolated and from seeking solutions elsewhere. I can only speak from a UK perspective but alhamudulillah the first generation of Muslims who settled here made tremendous strides in establishing Masjids when they were few and far between. Its up to the second and third generations to take this one step further and help establish the institutions which we now need, such as Islamic schools, classes for new converts etc in order to develop that sense of community. I think it was Br Kashif who said a while back that we meet many wonderful brothers and sisters in the Masjid and at other times but we never invite them to our homes. We need to develop this bond of brotherhood and instill it into our mindsets such that the muslim community becomes the norm and the secular world becomes the exception instead of it being the other way round. I know much of what I've said is pretty idealistic but as Br HiMY commented, we have to start somewhere.

Re: Leaving Islam
Anonymous
03/23/01 at 23:02:25
My parents are from India.  I was born into Islam.  I say that because I was never taught much about Islam and never practiced it (not my parents' fault).  However, now I am really starting to think about what I believe in and am really confused.  I have called myself a Muslim for 21 years and now I don't know what I am.  The more I learn about our religion, the more I am turned away.  I feel like it does not allow one to live in a modern world, it doesn't allow for you to be human and err, and I feel like it hinders me in following my passions.  I am telling you this because I want to be closer to God, but I don't know how.  I feel that Christianity and Judiasm are not the way.  I don't believe in them, but I am not a true Muslim eitherk so then what am I?   And how do I call myself a Muslim when I love to dance, listen to music, go out with people, go hiking, running, etc.?  Any thoughts?

Re: Leaving Islam
Anonymous
03/23/01 at 23:02:48
To the Anonymous Madina Citizen, I want to know what the woman that divorced her drunk husband did wrong?  How did she not follow her religion?  What would you have done in her situation?  Please remember, it is always easier to say than to do.

Re: Leaving Islam
Ikani
03/23/01 at 23:42:49
Assalamu alaikum, I agree with Jannah in that new converts to Islam, true they get to know and practise the basics like salaat, decent clothing (not going to just say hijaab 'cos guys're affected as well), ought to be allowed to take things step by step first. Afterall, we are taught to know Allah first before we worship Him. I think converts should be allowed to take things nice and easy because being seen to be a good practising muslim isn't as important as knowing why YOU want to be a good muslim. We ought to have some system in place that allows them to pick one aspect of faith, study it patiently and fully understand it such that, on their own with being told (or simply reciting things back at you) they can fully appreciate and value what they've just learned. Let's face it, many of us hated going to school when we were little ('cos we only wanted to go out and play with friends or whatever the reason was), but we were made to stick with it year after year until now if someone were to ask you what was the point going to school you'd at least have something to say for all your years in school. Thus, I really think we shouldn't be too harsh on converts because many things about Islam may seem new to them at first. The thing is, in this country I know at least, some converts are reminded that once they 'come into Islam' the only way they're going to get out is through death. I don't really know what the views of scholars on this but I do know that with the poor manner in which these converts are introduced to the aspect of life under Islam, it's no wonder many of them might try to run away whenever they can fearing for their lives. That said, alhamdulillah, there are also muslims who do a lot to ensure converts truly understand and appreciate the way of life they have chosen.

JustMe

03/25/01 at 03:14:15

To, in specific, the anonymous posting.. who's parents are from India; Since you were only born as a muslim and know little about Islam per se then you can probably call yourself an American Desi.  and the identification of one's self becomes a loose set of values which is balanced morally by way of common law within that particular community or such as a 'modern lifestyle' community.  One can do all the things a non-muslim can do except "seem" limited by what their "i.d. i.e. 'muslim'" tells them they can and cannot do which ends up to confuse the whole scenario of which community do I follow?  Now of course, dancing and music and whatever seems like the way to go when it comes to just kicking back but a Muslim is more concerned about what his/her purpose on earth is so he follows a set of rules and is guided in her life's decisions based on that.  If one overlooks Islam as just something that limits their activity then it may seem that Islam isn't for them.   Although, if one does any sort of SOUL-SEARCHING then they will have to come to terms with what they believe in.  I don't know what this means personally but I think its all very personal really.  One can't force religion on anyone as Islam says but God's guidance and mercy are always there for you to study and reflect upon.   I can't say what in particular is turning you away from the religion but I can say that it must be something about TRue LOve!!  I think what you need to find is your true love.  and 'that religion of ours' doesn't contribute much in your way of understanding what true love might be or at least the concept of true love itself.   What I'm trying to say is that Love is such a Basic thing and when there's so many rules/restrictions and that sort of stuff that complicates a pure phenomenon then we seek to glamourize it with "fun and excitement".  The problem with this is that this excitement trip is short-lived and LOUD.  I guess in the end nothing can stop you from continuing to party away but that Islam says its wrong.  How do you come to terms with that?  I think you must first learn to listen to the words of Islam in a light and graceful manner.  one that may protect you from your insecurities.  Give yourself a peaceful moment to listen to yourself i.e. the blood of your heartbeat.  You don't always have to be "ON THE GO".  Let's admit it we came on this earth for a grander purpose than to spend our time at clubs.     As for running, it happens all the time when your muscles tense up when you don't think in alignment with your actions.  As muslims we often have to play the perceived beleaguered role which diminutes us to something we don't want to be impositioned into.  We're not "those Moslems" 'but then' what are we thoughts come to mind.  The fact of the matter is is that all human beings are born muslim!  Its only with a conscienscious mind do we decide our destiny.  That consciousness is our soul speaking.  You'll  find the passion of your dreams when it is in accordance with Allah(S).   You really ought to go to Makkah and Medinah just to see the other side of the coin to catch a glimpse of Islam's impact on this earth.  The media has totally brainwashed the public into a lesser self-image one that we don't stand proud to be on but if we find that we practice our faith not for others but for ourselves then we will do justice to our souls and we will rise above what the west has to offer in terms of 'the life'(dunya).

Re: Leaving Islam
Rashid
04/16/01 at 15:13:35
Salaam Alaikum: I know a few born muslims who are muslim in name only, I mean they don't want anything to do with Islam.  They're just typical American guys, drinking, smoking, drugs, girlfriends, the whole bit.  Back in the day their parents use to make em go to the masjid, then when they turned 18 they were like "you can't tell me what to do anymore" and that was that.  So it's just one big culture of denial, the kids deny Islam, the parents deny the problem, and life goes on. From my own experience it has been difficult at times.  At first my mom accepted me being muslim cuz she thought it was a phase or something.  Then as time went by and she saw I was serious and then my first Ramadan was not too pleasant cuz she would try to make me eat cuz she thought i would starve to death!  I tried to explain and it was useless.  Things like this are difficult for born muslims to understand.  I remember telling one brother about this and he just thought it was funny.  I know a couple of brothers who took shahadah after me and they no longer go to the masjid cuz it's basically a paki/arab social club, and they felt they weren't welcome there.  I told them to ignore them (that's what I do) and just focus on deen, but they have problems with their family because of being muslims, and they have nowhere else to go but the masjid right?  and the masjid is divided bewteen the parents, talking in urdu/arabic, and the high school kids, who don't want to be there.  So the young adults like us are outcasted pretty much, both at home and at the masjid.  So a lot of them get fed up and don't come back.  Little things do add up and I suggest that if you meet a new muslim, please offer your support and at least a kind word, a lot of new ones have big problems at home and are just looking for someone they can talk to.

Re: Leaving Islam
Barr
04/18/01 at 06:33:30
Assalamu'alaikum, [quote]The more I learn about our religion, the more I am turned away.  [/quote] To the anonymous (parents from India)... isn't it interesting.. that though you said that, Ur heart is still sensitive to Islam? That U're trying to understand about what your heart feels inside, and not shove Islam aside, be unwilling to hear anything about it, and stamp it as a "no-go" way of life? I see this as a positive sign... that deep within your heart, U still seeked Allah and the truth, rather than being oblivious to it. Somehow, I feel from your post that perhaps, you need to understand Islam further. Allah has touched your heart, and now, it's your turn to respond, and fill your mind and heart to further learn and understand this deen... Brother/ Sister, Islam is a modern religion, and who says we can't have fun and be boring zombies? I'd say, always pray for guidance, and Allah promised that if we come to Him walking, He'll come to us running. So seek what your heart is asking for. If U still believe in Allah and the Prophet, then, U are a Muslim. Perhaps, U'd like to go to this website? www.themodernreligion.com take care :-)

Re: Leaving Islam
eleanor
04/18/01 at 07:04:44
slm Just a few words on this from my personal experience. It was deep down in me to be against Islam. My mother always raised me with the words "never allow yourself to become dependant on a man". To me the veil was a symbol of oppression and ignorance. Then I met my husband. A Moslem. Naturally my mother wasn't too pleased. But it opened the door to Islam for me. My husband never pressured me, just got some books on Islam and left them lying around. It's taken me five years. Now I'm reading those books. But since I met my husband I don't eat pork and don't drink alcohol. This was 100 % for him. I *loved* pork and alcohol and I'm ashamed to say that when I went home at Christmas every year I ate pork and drank alcohol. This is why I can understand that *if* my husband was a dominant type and *insisted* that I convert, then I probably would have but it wouldn't have been for the right reason. But now something has changed. I can't describe it. It's like Allah has touched my heart. Those women who converted for their husbands obviously only did it for some other reason and not for the right reason. I can never foresee going back to Catholicism. When I look at the goings on in a church it looks like a theater to me. And I constantly am amazed at how many people can be so gullible and so so wrong. I think anyone who leaves Islam has never fully understood what Islam is. I heard a story of a guy here in Germany who converted from Islam to Christianity. Basically he had had a very hard childhood where he was very rebellious and his father dealt severely with him and sent him to a hafiz school in Pakistan. It was a terrible experience for him  and he blames the whole thing on Islam. Then he came to Germany and met a german woman and could drink and eat what he wanted and this is why he converted. His opinion was that a "true and loving God wouldn't have let him suffer like that". He differentiates between Gods and says Moslems have one God ( a cruel and overbearing God) astafirullah, and Christians another God - Jesus- whose sole purpose was to die so that Christians can do anything they want and get away with it. He's a wee bit mixed up if you ask me. It's not Allah's fault that he went through all that.. anyway, I hope you all got the jist of my ramble. If anything's unclear just ask. wasalaam eleanor

Re: Leaving Islam
Barr
04/18/01 at 07:27:58
Assalamu'alaikum, [quote]Then I met my husband. A Moslem. Naturally my mother wasn't too pleased. But it opened the door to Islam for me. My husband never pressured me, just got some books on Islam and left them lying around.[/quote] MashaAllah, Sister Eleanor... :) I think what many people forget is that all of us need time to grow, to learn, to develop and to discover. And that process, though usually takes a long while is the process that builds us up strength upon strength. For the bricks that makes a strong wall need the right composition, the right mould and the right temperature and time to bake - and a special touch of guidance :) And alhamdulillah, Allah has given U the time and opportunities for all of that. :-)

Re: Leaving Islam
Teacup
04/19/01 at 11:21:36
Assalamu Alaikum I too have seen a lot of muslims leaving Islam in my own community.  It really breaks my heart to see it happen but I feel from talking with the women who have that they ever had a really good grounding in Islam in the first place.  Most of the religion was taught to them by their husbands who were either very extreme (usually not in the beginning of the marriage...but later on when they became older and realized that they were not being "good muslims") or their husbands were abusive and they could never quite understand the religion because of the violence....I guess what I am saying is they never saw true Islam being practiced.  I have also lived in a few communities and one in particular sort of scared reverts away from the religion by imposing such strict limitations on them from the day they said their shahadah.  They really did mean well but it sort of had a counter active result.  One last thought is about the rise of divorce I am seeing especially in my community.  There are two sisters I truly fear might leave the religion becuase they are so confused and so isolated (and have quite a few children) that they feel they have no support.  And unfortunatly the community itself is not very helpful.  I think it's especially hard for reverts in the fact that they may have strained family ties and do not have their families to fall back on for support.  That means that we as a community must become their family.  Yet it seems that in the hustle and bustle of our own lives we turn away from such a need.  And I'm not pointing fingers becuase I know myself that I too can easily fall into the too busy to care mentality.  Well that is all for now.  Sorry so long. :) Teacup

Re: Leaving Islam
meraj
04/19/01 at 13:14:30
slm, [quote]That means that we as a community must become their family.  [/quote] i agree... thats soo true... whos gonna be willing to change the whole lifestyle and beliefs if theres no one to support them in it? :(

Re: Leaving Islam
haaris
04/20/01 at 09:38:48
I couldn't agree more, although I think that we should not limit this to reverts.  Sure (we) reverts need lots of TLC, as it were, especially at the beginning but so do kids who are born into muslim families.  I know many kids of Indian/Pakistani/Turkish or whatever backgrounds who grow up never really knowing the full beauty of islam.  It's just something that's thrown at them from childhood but without any proper explanation/education. I know of one girl (of Pakistani origin) whose father died whilst she was quite young.  Her father was well respected in the community and was president of the mosque committee.  However, when he died the community did not help her mother bring up her and her (elder) brother.  This girl and her brother are now both "married" (in commas because they are only married under English law, not the islamic law) to English non-muslims and even drink alcohol and smoke in front of their mother.  For her part, the mother feels that she can't say anything to them because she has no other family in this country and who else is going to look after her when she's elderly? Sorry to go on about this but it makes me so sad and I can't help but feel that the community as a whole let this girl, her mother and her brother down really badly. We do need to make our communities like one big family but we need to recognise that everyone, not just reverts, needs support from time to time. Salaam.

Re: Leaving Islam
Anik
04/26/01 at 02:37:30
asalaamu alaikum i've seen ppl getting lazy and "dropping out" of Islam but to be quick to the point: 1) a guy who became Christian from being born muslim because an angel appeared to him and told him to worship Christ (astag'ferlah) I'll talk more about that in a new thread 2) a devout and pious mulsim who all of the sudden thought science wasn't compatible with Islam ... he said he looked up one day and saw emptiness... but the first guy intrigued me, and yes, he seemed of sound mind. just my come-acrossings asalaamu alaikum. anik,.

Re: Leaving Islam
Arsalan
04/26/01 at 10:07:47
[slm][quote]a guy who became Christian from being born muslim because an angel appeared to him and told him to worship Christ [/quote] How does he know it wasn't Shaytaan who appeared to him in the disguise of an angel??

Re: Leaving Islam
Anik
04/26/01 at 20:52:42
[quote] How does he know it wasn't Shaytaan who appeared to him in the disguise of an angel??[/quote] A.A. Br. Arsalan, I considered that, but tell me and anyone els ewho wants in, what would you think in this situation? Imagine your faith wasn't solid: an angel appears to you (clearly a fantastic event) and you believe all that you sense and then, it tells you to be something if yoiu don't listen you are going to Hell. Ouch.  That's, by agnostic standards, pretty unfair cause if you do, Islamically you're kaput if that was Shaytaan but how often does this event happen and to how many? it's a trade -off and it's hard to argue since we weren't there to know when/if he actualy saw it. knowing that the human mind is fallible, does the Quran say that Allah would give leeway of some sort or consideration because for a weak human moind to be strong enough to resist that event is TOUGH no doubt the look in his eyes man... he looked like he was in awe and pretty sane to me, though other muslims around thought he was crazy tell me what you think. AA. anik,.

Re: Leaving Islam
jannah
04/26/01 at 22:23:12
Anik, The human mind is extremely powerful. You can dream something and really believe it happenned. You can describe something the way you saw it, but if you watch the tape it happenned differently. The dream your friend had could have been a test as Arsalan mentioned, or it could have been a simple psychological manifistation of his current thoughts.  To most of us Muslims we would interpret that dream in a way that makes sense to us. To that guy with weakining faith, he too interpreted the dream in a way that went with his current beliefs. By the way as Muslims we believe that anyone who comes to you, in real life or dream life and tells you something that is against the shari'ah is from the shaitan.  Muhammad [saw] brought the last revelation and has set the shari'ah from now until the end of time. It cannot be changed by an angel or fantastic event. Even if you saw Muhammad [saw] in a dream telling you to do something (and you really might) one way you know it is not him is if in the dream you are told to do something that is new or changes what has been laid out before. See, it doesn't make sense that Allah would send down a law and rules for all time, and then allow "angels" or whatever to come down and tell people different things. That's how beautiful and fair Islam is. Everyone has an equal chance. Everything is all right there. You study it, you follow it. You don't need to reach a certain level where you have dreams and what not to be a pious Muslim. Everyone can be one. So I feel sorry for the person you described, but I don't see how having a "dream" makes him different from anyone else. Everyone has the choice of being a Muslim or not. He made his choice. And we make ours. [wlm]
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