Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/04/01 at 12:20:25 |
| Asalam Alaikum Brothers and Sisters, I have a question. Is is allowed in Islam to hunt for food? I like to go deer hunting in the fall, and I feed my children with the meat I get from the hunt, but being that this fall will be my first as a Muslim I want to know what the rules are, if I can at all. I also like to hunt quail, and pheasant. Of course I would give these up in a heart beat if it is haram, but if it is not I would like to know the rules regarding the hunt. Thank you in advance for any and all information you can give me. May Allah bless you all and all of your families Sincerely, Usamah |
| Re: Hunting |
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| humble_muslim |
| 04/05/01 at 06:34:04 |
| AA In general it is halal. Make sure you say Bismillahi Allahu Akbar before shooting the deer/bird. |
| NS |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/05/01 at 09:38:29 |
| Al-hamdu lillah! Thank you so much for telling me that. I was just under the impression that if I shoot an animal then it becomes a carcass, and it is haram to eat of that. I am so pleased to know that I can still hunt, that is one of the things my father and I like to do together and because he is christian he often times does not understand my feelings on certain issues. But knowing that I can still go hunting with him is wonderful! al-hamdu lillah! Sincerely, Usamah |
| Whoa! |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 04/05/01 at 12:54:57 |
| Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem. Dear Brother Usamah, Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah. I’m afraid the matter is not quite so simple as hunting being halal, for the actual act of hunting is but one of the issues which need to be considered, and please, once again, as a reminder to myself first, let us ensure we know with *proficiency* ALL that is connected to the question being asked, before we answer. Especially when replying to Brothers/Sisters who are new to the Deen and will willingly take our answers in good faith, upon trust. This is a matter of hukm, not some light matter. Shaykh Abdullah Adhami mentioned in the four –part article on Shar'iah he authored: "That is why the Sahaba recommended: "If you are asked about a matter, worry about saving yourself first before you worry about relieving the questioner of his question."" Imam Nawawi (ra) related that, “It has been narrated by 'Ata Ibn as-Sai'b (the Tabi'i) that: "I have seen many of the people (of the first and second generations) and if anyone was to ask them a question they would tremble when answering out of fear of Allah (in case the answer was incorrect)." He further is reported to have related that, “Imam Shafi'i (qas) said: "I never saw anyone in whom Allah had gathered so much knowledge and (eloquence) in answering fatwa like Ibn 'Uyaynah (qas), but even he would keep quiet (and would not rush towards answering questions)."" When someone acts on the basis of an answer one of us has given, we have undertaken responsibility on behalf of the Deen in front on Allah (awj), and will be accounted for that, no matter how sincere we were. The matter comes sharply into focus when we realise that fiqh is concerned with declaring what is halal/haram, which means we *know* the tashri’ [legislation] of Al-Shaari’ [The Lawgiver]. I for one shudder with khawf [fear] at this thought. There is a definite issue if, say, you shoot the animal and it dies before you have an opportunity to slaughter it according to the Islamic method, wallahu a’lam. It is *not* enough to just recite the basmala before commencing the shoot. For a better exposition on this question – just to *understand* the issues involved, for it is more complex than just being halal to hunt - refer to the section on hunting in Bidayat al-Mujtahid [The Distinguished Jurists Primer] by Ibn Rushd, and translated by Professor Nyazee. Otherwise consult someone who has the requisite knowledge before continuing with this pursuit. For example, whilst hunting is *one* issue, another related issue is that of consumption of that which has been hunted, and there are conditions that need to be satisfied for the meat to be considered halal for consumption. There are questions related to if the animal dies by the shot, or by the slaughter. There are issues to do with draining the blood. And more. So the rules need to be known, the conditions understood, the existence of impediments appreciated, and so on. Matters of fiqh lie in the detail, not in generalities, so we need to avoid vague understandings and seek crisp clear answers on *every* question of relevance to the overall subject-matter. In order to ensure we are worshipping Allah, it is *incumbent* upon us to seek the knowledge pertaining to the matter *prior* to commencement of the act, for we do not worship our Lord (awj) in ignorance. My dear Brother, it is commendable that you are concerned to know what is the decree of Allah ta’ala on the matter, for that is the mark of the one concerned with uboodiyah [servitude]. May Allah ta’ala facilitate for you, your answer soon. If you seek further clarification, please email (not Instant Message) me, and I will endeavour pursuit of the matter on your behalf by asking those who are qualified to answer you. Take care akhi, Abu Khaled |
| Re: Hunting |
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| alzinjibar |
| 04/05/01 at 13:43:14 |
| Bismillah Rahman Rahim, wa salatu wa salam ala'a Rasul Karim, As Salamu alaykum , I'm glad and happy to hear the glad tiding of you brother entering into the folds of Islam, May Allah bless you and your family , bless your health, hearts and mind, bless the mother of your kids and your beloved kids, bless you work and bless you living , and shower your journey towards Him (swt) with ease and gentleness, Amin. Brother concerning hunting, it is allowed to eat game as long as the game falls under non carnivorous animals, one has to say Bismillah Allah Akbar while shooting it , in both cases if the game is down , it's permissible to eat it and if it runs away and one get it's after tracking. But If the game was drowned, I’m saying this because I was into hunting the big game back in the bush of Africa, and there they are some game that either leave in or around the water ( hippos, Sitatunga ( or swamp antelope) or just any game be it a wildebeest or impalas, if the game is shoot and drown , one cannot eat it, since it might have died due to drowning. As for Duck hunting , since down there we don’t hunt with dogs to retrieve the game and our duck hunting is different then here, I’ll have to get back to you , I mean suppose you shoot it, and 3 options follow, 1 - the duck is mortally wounded and dies in the air. 2 - the duck is wounded, falls in the lake/river, and the dog get it still alive, - one gets it alive and slaughter it. - either the duck dies of that wound the shot) - or the duck is killed by the dog ( that's the problematic case) 4 - the duck is wounded either in the air, or on the surface , and it dive to try to break the chase , but dies under water and eventually rose on the surface after some time, it’s also a problematic case because the duck might have dies by drowning and not the shot. Additionally, I know it was considered "makruh" ( dislike but not haram actions ) to shoot at a game while knowing that you wont take it down with one's shot, either due to your angle of shot, distance or caliber, yes I know someone who took down a wild 1500lb Buffalo with a 22 cal because it had trashed his VW and out of anger he went for it, but it cost him 2-3 boxes of 50 cat. I used to hear the old mans saying that I don't know the legal ruling behind it. So I’ll have to get back to you on this. Also the same applies to using spot light at night, some folks back there where on that habit , I don’t know if you guys do that in the states. Another important point is using over size caliber to take some low game, i.e. : magnum 375 or 404, 458, or even SS express 400 , 500, Holland & Holland, to take lets say an impala, wildebeest or Topi, Gemsbok. Unless one has a valid excuse i.e.: 1 - it's the only weapon one has with him at that time 2 - it's a dire need of meat , in a necessity situation. 3 - it's to "finish" a wounded animal and take it out of its pain. Also to use hallow (typos ? )points, in most of the cases I’ve heard it's not permitted, unless for real big game i.e Elephants, Buffalo, Hippos I have to mention that back in the bush down in Africa, cartridges are not available and in some cases, because it's a small caliber and someone wants to take a bigger game , they'll drill the jacket (typos?), i.e.: a 30.06, for Buffalo hunting. I also mentioned angle of shot and distance, there people either can't afford scopes or they are just not available, or the way of hunting doesn't permit the use of scope , in the case one is going in the marshes or thick bush therefore it becomes very difficult to use a scope, therefore if the situation doesn't allow you a clean shot, and one risk to just wound the animal and have to run for it causing pain for a long time for the animal, that's also no allowed. In regards to the Adab of hunting, one cannot hunt for pleasure and trophy hunting, it has to be for the meat and food. - One's intention is to feed ones family and others. - The game has to be treated with good manners and not made to suffer. - The game cannot not be shoot at if it's in a state of "pregnancy", and one can recognize that. - The game cannot not be shoot at if it's recognize to be suckling and has calf or foal - If a game is wounded and one fear the animal is mortally wounded one has to alleviate it’s suffering - The same rule applies if one find a foal very young, either to catch it “adopt “ it , or if one fear that it will become prey to predators and can’t defend it self or run away or if it’s lost and not in a herd , one has to “ finish it “ - One is not allowed to “overkill” due to anger , i.e.: you have been tracking the bull for the whole day since dawn, and by the time you get to it, you “blast the whole magazine till one’s barrel smokes” - One has to just take from Nature what is sufficient for ones needs, and not get a pick up full , just for the pleasure of aiming and shooting. - Unless there is a need to, - Feed a large number of people in times of necessity - Cull to maintain the ecosystem (typo ?), mostly the flora - Cull in times of epidemics to maintain and preserve the fauna - minimal cull when crops are being destroyed and only if it’s necessitated by the amount or volume of crops being destroyed . - Minimum cull of big Cats if ones find their number growing too much as oppose to a decline in the herbivore. - Maintaining the sanctify of Nature , by either planting trees, boring water wholes , in times of drought or semi drought or due to other natural disasters or man made disasters. - Protect and preserving Nature from uncontrolled woodcutter or commercial poachers. - Control the game and help in times of epidemics to inform the authorities and partake in the action of game control and vaccination if required. The Adab of killed game. - The game should be slaughtered with a sharp knife even if it’s to be found dead after one has shoot it, and let the blood drain. - A sharp Knife should be used, if one find the animal down but still alive and one can approach it safely to slaughter it , then one has to cover it’s sight, till one feels it’s “cooler” I mean less tense and say Bismillah Allah Akbar and do the cut in the jugular vain with one sharp cut, the jugular vain should be cut and in the process the aorta, but specifically the jugular, some people confuse with the aorta. - If it’s already down and near death or dead , one should do the same but not wait and let the blood drain. - One should be thankful to Allah (swt) for His bounties. - Since where I grew up and we didn’t have any tradition of Trophies, I don’t’ know the ruling on that issue but since it falls under the issue of Statues/images, I’ll play safe and not have them exposed , and Allah knows best - The product of the hunt should be distributed fairly to all who are involved , trackers, porters, skinners, shooters, and the other participant who were involved. - Nothing should be put to waste , but in Africa nothing was any ways, the offal’s are a price choice. - The Meat shouldn’t be cooked before being cleaned from blood. The blood cannot be used , prepared, or consumed in any ways, and must be washed from the meat - The meat should be thoroughly checked for the remaining bullet if it didn’t go through, or remove the pieces of lead, which might be left, this is imperative before it’s been given to others as a present. - The meat should also be distributed fairly to ones home , it’s imperative to give some to our neighbors if it’s sufficient . If ones neighbors are in a dire situation then it’s even more incumbent to give more and even forfeit ones personal share if one has the ability to feed his family and can go by without the product of the game. The Adab of the hunter. - He has to make his intention clean before going to hunt, i mean not hunt for fun , nor for trophies, but for food. - He has to take care of his weapons ,maintenance wise. - He has to make frequent invocation , prayer and be thankful to Allah (swt) - He has to learn and appreciate Nature as the bounties of Allah (swt) - I’ve even heard some old man say that one has to make time to just observe nature , go in the bush not for the hunting but for the learning. - He has to teach his kids , about firearms and shooting for it teaches them a sense of having a goal in life and aiming at it, this is from a broader perspective. - The hunter has also to try to teach to his kids about nature, tracking, the animal kingdom, the importance of Nature , and to have Ihsan for Nature. Dear respected Brother these are just some of the points I know, many of us who have tread the wild tracks and crouch on the moss , stalking that special one , while watching the wind direction have learn a code of honor for hunters, the difference is that in Islam it’s codified by the sanctify of our noble religion. Please brother here I just shared some of the things I do know, and I can try to find the backing on the rulings of some of the point I‘ve stated above, since I’m in a place where our scholars are not asked, about hunting much , their understanding will be limited on these issues. Many of the things I‘ve said was what i learned from others and the prevoius generation who taught me and some i pick them up over time but often in times when one looks at them from an Islamic point of view they are codified with legal ruling on them. THESE ARE MY WORDS, THESE ARE NOT LEGAL RULLING FROM A SCHOLAR, ONE HAS TO CHECK WITH A SCHOLAR TO HAVE THE LEGAL RULING ON EACH OF THESE, and apply them, but it will give you an idea when you might approach a scholar on those issues. What ever I’ve said which is right and true is from Allah (swt) and whatever wrong I said is from my weakness and shaytan. Good hunting and good winds.. and as we say in Swahili , Safari ndjema ( safe journey ) , for it’s a journey. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/05/01 at 13:50:05 |
| [slm] There are a few other questions also, I believe, that need to be answered before you hunt: Are there any conditions for "hunting" in Islam? For example, does the meat *have* to be consumed? Or can the carcass be left for other animals to eat from, or simply disintegrate? Also, is it lawful for one's intention to be fun and amusement when killing an animal? What if the intention is simply to refine the skills of shooting (if the animal is being shot)? Very few people, nowadays, hunt for the sole purpose of feeding themselves! I am not going to attempt to answer these questions. Perhaps other brothers can on the board. I remember that Yusuf Qaradawi discussed this issue in his "The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam." Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/05/01 at 13:57:25 |
| Hmm... Looks like alzinjibar answered some of the questions I put up there. I have no clue, of course, whether or not his answers are valid from a scholarly standpoint. Allah knows best. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| alzinjibar |
| 04/05/01 at 14:16:36 |
| Bismillah wa salatu wa salam ala'a Rasul Karim, Ops, sorry for the editing, my word processor did a chutney on the editing part, again sorry for the messy look of it. nb: dont forget the widows and orphans in your duas. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/05/01 at 14:17:39 |
| slm I didn't answer this question because I don't know the ruling on it and I do know that there is mention within sound traditions of hunting, but the rules associated with this I have no clue and did not even bother to investigate this. But I certainly am curious about the answer to this question. A brother in Albany mentioned to me that he was going to go hunt for a deer after it hit his mirror. I think he was serious. I only thought Albanians knew about hunting cows but I guess they know deer as well. ;) Perhaps some of the Albanian brothers (sisters even) who have gone hunting can explain. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| jehad |
| 04/05/01 at 15:43:31 |
| i have hunted, i have asked the qustions you are asking. it is hallal to hunt, as long as the animal is going to be eaten. before you shot the animal, say bismillah allah hu akbar then fire. if the animal is dead and it has blead by the bullit, then the meat is hallal, and you dont need to cut its throut. if the animal is still alive, say bismillah alhuakber again and slit its throut. if the animal has died with out bleading, (ie bullit hit the animal, killed it, but did not pearse the skin), the animal is harram. there are many hadith about hunting with arrows, spears, dogs, halks, stones. the ruling is the same. but another issue, you cant feed animals you are going to eat on meat, it makes that animal harram for 40 days, and if it has always been feed on meat, that animals is always harram. |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/05/01 at 16:03:22 |
| [slm] The following is taken from Shaikh Qaradawi's [i]The Lawful and The Prohibited in Islam[/i] ------------------------- Many Arabs and peoples of other nations formerly lived by hunting; hence the Qur'an and Sunnah have addressed themselves to this matter. Muslim jurists have always treated the subject of hunting under a separate heading, explaining what is lawful and what is prohibited, what is obligatory and what is commendable in this regard, since many animals and birds whose flesh is wholesome are neither tamed nor under man's control. In order to render eating them halal, Islam does not require that the throats of such creatures be cut or that the hollow of their throat be pierced, as is required for the slaughter of tame and domesticated animals. It is sufficient to do something of this sort but to a lesser degree, as the circumstances of the hunt permit. People have always followed their instincts while hunting, and Islam does not oppose what is natural and instinctive, but merely adds a few conditions in order to bring hunting, as it brings all the other affairs of Muslims, in accord with its general belief system. Some of these conditions apply to the hunter, others to the game, and still others to the instrument of hunting. These conditions apply, naturally, only to land game. As for sea game, Allah has permitted all of it without restriction, as was mentioned earlier: The game of the sea is permitted to you and so is its food, a provision for you and for travellers by sea.... (5:99 (96)) [color=blue]Conditions Pertaining to the Hunter[/color] The conditions pertaining to the hunter are the same as those which pertain to the butcher: that he should be either a Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, a Zoroastrian, or a Sabean. Islam teaches the hunter that he should not hunt merely for sport, taking the life of animals without intending to eat them or otherwise benefit from them. The Prophet (peace be on him) said: If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgement, 'O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.' (Reported by al-Nisai and by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih.) Again, he said: Whoever kills a sparrow or anything bigger than that without a just cause, Allah will hold him accountable on the Day of Judgement. The listeners asked, O Messenger of Allah, what is a just cause? He replied, That he kill it to eat, not to simply chop off its head and then throw it away. (Reported by al-Nisai and al-Hakim who said that its transmission is sound.) Another condition is that the Muslim should not be in the state of ihram (Ihram refers to the state of consecration, physical and spiritual, of the Muslim who is performing hajj, the obligatory pilgrimage, or 'umrah, the lesser and voluntary pilgrimage. (Trans.)) for hajj or 'umrah, for at that time he is in a state of total peace and serenity, the sphere of which extends to the animals and birds around him. Even if some game should appear right in front of him so that he could catch or kill it with a spear, it is not permissible for him to do so. This is to test and train the Believer in order to make him strong and patient. As Allah Ta'ala says: O you who believe! Do not kill game while you are in the state of ihram.... (5:98 (95)) ...And hunting is haram for you while you are in the state of ihram.... (5:2(1)) [color=blue]Conditions Pertaining to the Instrument[/color] Instruments of hunting are two kinds: (a) Weapons, such as swords, arrows, and spears, as mentioned in the ayah: ...in the game which you take with your hands and your spears.... (5:97 (94)) (b) Hunting animals which can be trained, such as the dog and the leopard among beasts, and the falcon and hawk among birds. Allah Ta'ala says: Say: Whatever is good is lawful for you. And eat of what is caught for you by those you have trained among hunting animals, teaching them as Allah has taught you.... (5:5 (4)) [color=blue]Hunting with Weapons[/color] Two conditions must be met if the game is killed by a weapon. First, the weapon should pierce the body of the animal, making a wound; death by mere impact does not render it halal. 'Adi bin Hatim narrated, "I asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be him) about game killed with a weapon (m'irad). He said, "If you hurl the weapon and it pierces the game, eat it, but if it is killed by the blow of its side, do not eat it." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) This hadith is proof that what makes the game halal is that the body of the animal be pierced, even if the weapon is blunt. Accordingly, game killed by a rifle or pistol or the like is halal as the bullet will penetrate its body even more deeply than an arrow, spear, or sword. With reference to the hadith reported by Ahmad, "Do not eat what is killed by a banduqah unless you slaughter it," and the one reported by al-Bukhari on the authority of Ibn 'Umar, which states that the animal killed by a banduqah is like an animal killed by a blow, it should be noted that banduqah here refers to a ball of clay and not to the modern bullet. The Prophet (peace be on him) likewise forbade throwing stones at the hunted animal, saying, "Throwing stones will not hunt the game or kill an enemy, but it may break a tooth or gouge out an eye." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim. ) The second condition to be met when hunting with a weapon is that the name of Allah must be mentioned when hurling or striking with the weapon, as the Prophet (peace be on him) instructed 'Adi bin Hatim, whose reports of a hadith are the source material for this topic. (The above instructions likewise apply to hunting with a gun. (Trans.)) [color=blue]Hunting with Dogs and the Like[/color] If hunting is done with a dog or falcon or the like, the following is required: first, it should be a trained animal; second, it should catch the game for its owner and not for itself, as the Qur'an specifies; and third, the name of Allah must be mentioned while sending it for the chase. The source of these conditions is the following ayah: They ask thee (O Muhammad) what is lawful to them (as food). Say: Whatever is good is lawful for you. And eat of what is caught for you by those you have trained among hunting animals, teaching them as Allah has taught you, and mention the name of Allah over it.... (5:5 (4)) 1. The definition of "training" is well known. It means that the animal so trained is under the control of its owner so that when he calls it, it responds; when he sends it toward the game, it hunts it; and when he restrains it, it halts. The jurists have laid down various criteria for this; however, common sense is a better guide in deciding whether a hunting animal is trained or not. 2. The definition of "catching the game for its owner" is that it does not itself eat the game. The Prophet (peace be on him) said: "If you send your dog after the game, and it eats part of it, you should not eat of it, for the dog has hunted the game for itself andnot for you; but if you send the dog and it kills the game without eating it, you can eat it, as it has caught it for its master." (Narrated by Ahmad; also reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) Some jurists make a distinction between hunting animalssuch as dogs and hunting birds such as falcons. Their opinion is that eating game which has been partly eaten by a bird is permissible, while if a dog has eaten from it, it is not allowed. The reason for laying down these two conditions is, first, to emphasize that the hunting dog should be well-trained, always being under the control of its master, and second, to preserve human dignity by not allowing man to eat the leavings of animals. Finally, we note that a well-trained dog which catches the game for its master is very similar to an inanimate weapon in his hands such as an arrow. 3. Mentioning the name of Allah while sending the dog for the chase is like mentioning His name while shooting the arrow, hurling the spear, or striking with the sword. The Qur'anic injunction, "mention the name of Allah over it," has also been emphasized in ahadith, such as that of 'Adi bin Hatim. The mandatory nature of this condition has also been demonstrated by the fact that if a dog other than that of the hunter is found at the game, eating of it is not lawful. 'Adi said to the Prophet (peace be on him), "Suppose I send my dog but I find another dog at the game, and I do not know which dog caught it?" The Prophet (peace be on him) replied, "Do not eat it, for while you mentioned the name of Allah over your dog, you did not mention it over the other dog." However, if one forgets to mention Allah's name while dispatching his weapon or the hunting animal, he can make up for it by mentioning it at the time of eating, for Allah has forgiven the Muslim ummah for the errors it commits due to forgetfulness or error. As was mentioned earlier, this also applies in the case of forgetting to pronounce the name of Allah at the time of slaughtering. The significance of mentioning the name of Allah over the animal need not be repeated here, as it was explained earlier in connection with slaughtering. [color=blue]When the Game is Found Dead[/color] It may happen that although the game is struck by the arrow it may nevertheless escape; the hunter may find it some time —perhaps even days—later, dead. In such a case, the game is lawful l s food under the following conditions: (1) That it is not found in water. The Prophet (peace be on him) said: "If you shoot an arrow and it kills the animal, you can eat it. But if it is found in water, you do not know whether its death was caused by drowning or by your arrow." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim ) (2) That it has no wounds other than the wound inflicted by the arrow. 'Adi bin Hatim asked the Prophet (peace be on him), "What if I shoot an arrow and find the game the next morning with my arrow in it?" The Prophet (peace be on him) replied: "If you know that your arrow killed it, and you do not find any wound inflicted by wild beasts, you may eat it." (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who classifies it as sahih. ) (3) That the game has not reached the stage of decay. People of sound taste are naturally revolted and nauseated by rotten meat, and eating it is also likely to be injurious. It is narrated in the Sahih of Muslim that the Prophet (peace be on him) told Abu Th'alabah al-Khashini, "You shoot an arrow but the game disappears for three days. If you then come upon it, you may eat what is not decayed of it." |
| Re: Hunting |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/05/01 at 17:02:47 |
| slm Jazak Allah khairen Arsalan! |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Saleema |
| 04/05/01 at 17:11:11 |
| Assalam ualykum, Bichara Kiwaku. (poor Kiwaku). So do you know what to do now? Or are you confused? :) wassalam |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/05/01 at 17:27:30 |
| [slm] Saleema, being confused is better than going out and doing something wrong out of ignorance ... isn't it? |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Saleema |
| 04/05/01 at 17:48:53 |
Saleema, being confused is better than going out and doing something wrong out of ignorance ... isn't it? True. But he was really looking forward to going hunting with his Dad. Kiwaku, (by the way, what kind of name is that? Native American?), I remember that you mentioned you are friends with an imam of a masjid in your area? The one that fed you liver? :) Why don't you talk to him about it? :) wassalam |
| Re: Hunting |
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| humble_muslim |
| 04/06/01 at 06:32:12 |
| AA I thought that the emphasis in fiqh is to prove things haram, rather than prove things are halal. That is why I said "in general, it is halal". Yes, there are some items that need to be explained in hunting, but let's not become like Bani Israel and discuss a simple issue to death, something the Prophet SAW and the Quran warned us against. |
| NS |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/06/01 at 11:31:56 |
| Asalamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters, Thank you all for the wonderful and insightful information. Al-hamdu lillah that I have such good people to rely on! One quick question about hunting. Alzinjibar... what about black powder weapons.... typically here in the states they are .56 caliber and the bullet itself only comes in one type.... sabot hollow points. This is to ensure the quickest and cleanest kill possible due to the lower muzzle velocity of the black powder rifle. Is this halal or haram? Sister Saleema thank you so much for the kind words, I have not really been confused, just needing to take some time and digest all of the information. I have pleanty of time before deer season starts that I can learn all I need to know. In response to the question about my name... Kiwaku is native american, Pawnee language... it means "White Fox". The name is a bit of a sore topic for me as before I converted to Islam I was involved in a pagan religion called Wicca (witchcraft). My name in that religion was Kiwaku Foxpaw. I used it in all my emails, all of my conversations, everything. I am trying very hard to get rid of it... my real name (given to me by my christian parents) is Steven Frederick Reynard... which I am currently changing it to Usamah Steven Frederick Reynard. How could I change my log in name here to reflect my desire to become a better Muslim? I am friends with the imam of the local masjid, yes. I dont remember saying that he ever fed me liver..... I have never dined with him. But it is something I could talk with him about, yes. Thank you for the tip. :) May Allah bless you all! :) Sincerely Usamah |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/06/01 at 11:32:39 |
| Asalamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters, Thank you all for the wonderful and insightful information. Al-hamdu lillah that I have such good people to rely on! One quick question about hunting. Alzinjibar... what about black powder weapons.... typically here in the states they are .56 caliber and the bullet itself only comes in one type.... sabot hollow points. This is to ensure the quickest and cleanest kill possible due to the lower muzzle velocity of the black powder rifle. Is this halal or haram? Sister Saleema thank you so much for the kind words, I have not really been confused, just needing to take some time and digest all of the information. I have pleanty of time before deer season starts that I can learn all I need to know. In response to the question about my name... Kiwaku is native american, Pawnee language... it means "White Fox". The name is a bit of a sore topic for me as before I converted to Islam I was involved in a pagan religion called Wicca (witchcraft). My name in that religion was Kiwaku Foxpaw. I used it in all my emails, all of my conversations, everything. I am trying very hard to get rid of it... my real name (given to me by my christian parents) is Steven Frederick Reynard... which I am currently changing it to Usamah Steven Frederick Reynard. How could I change my log in name here to reflect my desire to become a better Muslim? I am friends with the imam of the local masjid, yes. I dont remember saying that he ever fed me liver..... I have never dined with him. But it is something I could talk with him about, yes. Thank you for the tip. :) May Allah bless you all! :) Sincerely Usamah |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Saleema |
| 04/06/01 at 12:14:34 |
| In response to the question about my name... Kiwaku is native american, Pawnee language... it means "White Fox". The name is a bit of a sore topic for me as before I converted to Islam I was involved in a pagan religion called Wicca (witchcraft). My name in that religion was Kiwaku Foxpaw. I have a friend who is a wiccan. I'm going to ask her what her wiccan name is. So what is wiccan all about? My friend raves on and on about how they have a personal relationship with God(s) or goddess unlike other religions and that their worship isn't based around rituals, they have a very spiritual connection with God(s) or goddess. She says that it's not true that they practice witchcraft. She thinks she knows so much about Islam, she thinks that observing hijab is a ritual empty of spirituality, so is the prayr five times a day. of course I correct her but really haven't had a deep meaninful conversation with her about religion. I would like to know a little more about what wiccan is all about and get to know her better before I approach her for any type of dawah so I will know where she is coming from. Wassalam |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/06/01 at 12:32:57 |
| Wicca... now that is a topic I didnt know would be brought up..... Wicca is witchcraft... no matter what they try and tell you, practitioners of Wicca are called witches. Period. It is a religion that has more ceremony and ritual than any other that I have ever encountered. There are even ceremonies for starting your car in the morning! Do not be fooled by people telling you there arent... I lived the life of a witch for a long time.... I am quite familiar with it. Al-hamdu lillah for opening my heart to the one TRUE way! Wiccans believe in a god and a goddess, it is very similiar to the pagan religions followed by the pre-Islamic arabs. It is not the way of Allah, it is evil, and shatan is having a good time within it. They worship animals, stars, fire, anything and everything you can think of. If this person is a friend, try and show her the right path, if her heart is hardened to it.... say your Salams to her and leave her behind, she will drag you down sister... dont let it happen. If you truly want to learn more about it.... I can reccomend a book... but I will warn you, it is haram reading and your husband may get mad if you try and read it. I have warned you and every body.... the book title is "To Ride A Silver Broomstick" by Silver Ravenwolf.... again it is a haram book.... but if you want to know the enemies tactics and stragedies you have to learn the enemies ways. This topic is off the original... Sister Saleema, I would be happy to discuss this with you further, but please contact me at bmw_r1200c@hotmail.com for further discussion on it. Sincerely Usamah |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Saleema |
| 04/06/01 at 14:55:29 |
| Assalam ualykum, Ok, we dont' have to discuss it here. yes, she's a friend. don't worry, inshallah i won't be dragged down. And I'm not married yet so my husband won't be mad at me. :) wassalam |
| Re: Hunting |
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| alzinjibar |
| 04/09/01 at 15:09:52 |
| Bismillah Rahman Rahim, As salam alaykum , Yes bro , you can use them since it's the quickest clean shot , but tell me something, to use that u must be really close, unless i'm confusing that sabot with something else, is it the one big slug ?? or several ones ? Sorry to ask back in the south we use Brit and Belgian calibrations so it's different then what you guys are using up here. Well bro Safari ndejma' |
| Re: Hunting |
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| Kiwaku |
| 04/10/01 at 17:25:49 |
| Asalamu Alaikum Brothers and sisters Okay... the great sabot! A sabot bullet is one that is encased in a cartridge, it has the powder charge behind it and the entire cartridge is expelled from the rifle when it is fired. The casing around the actual bullet breaks away when it leaves the rifle and the bullet travels on to the target. It makes it possible to shoot farther more accurately, especially when using a smooth-bore weapon. Though, they are still deadly accurate when used from a rifled weapon too. Sabot rounds are primarily used with black-powder weapons because they can shoot farther than regual ball shot. A sabot round is one big slug, not several like in a shotgun. From what you tell me it would be halal to use the sabot rounds because it presents the most accurate and cleanest kill possible. Though, it is near impossible to find black-powder shot that is not hollow-point. Again it is for the most expansion and quickest kill possible, damaging as little meat as possible. Remember we are hunting, and every bit of meat we can save from the kill is that much more that is on the plates of the starving, homeless, and our families. May Allah bless you all Sincerely Usamah |
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