Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Not so different, after all |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/10/01 at 20:04:54 |
| [slm] This article was published in our college newspaper on April 2nd. The writer is a hijaabi Muslimah (she's a staff writer for the newspaper, and has served one year as editor-in-chief). She was the co-founder of MYNA in our locality, and someone who has worked with MSA and MYNA at the national level. [color=blue]Not so different, after all[/color] [i]Students’ behavior on ‘Gay Jeans Day’ shows immaturity, narrow minds[/i] At 2:30 a.m. Friday, my phone rang. I was up studying for a test, and welcomed the distraction, realizing that it was probably one of my friends. I was right. But the conversation was not casual. The conversation began with my friend asking me to pick him up. First I thought that he may be drunk and unable to drive. However, that was not the case. On his way home from Northgate [northern end of campus] that night, he saw a sign written on the pedestrian walkway over the railroad tracks across Wellborn road. Written in styrofoam cups was “NO FAGS.” This statement may not anger many [students on this campus], and those reading this column might be smiling or chuckling that someone had the audacity to write that, especially during Gay Awareness Week. My friend called me that morning because he wanted my help to take down the cups. However, before I even left my house, another friend, who had also been at Northgate that night, saw the same message, pulled her car over and took down all the cups. Trying to console my friend on the phone that night began to give me a better understanding of what gay students go through every day on this campus. A sign was written, as if across the sky, declaring that this campus would not tolerate anyone who could possibly be different. It intimated that some people on this campus, during a week of possible education and learning, were going to try their hardest to insult those students as much as possible. However, the attack upon homosexual [students] did not stop there because Friday, as many students who wore khaki pants on this day know, was “Gay Jeans Day.” I had seen the advertisements in [the school newspaper] all week and got a kick out of what a daring statement the Queer [students of this campus] were giving. When I saw the ad, I understood the point they were trying to make. Queer [students of this campus] chose jeans because it a universal attire. Everyone wears jeans, especially college students. Some even wear the same pair of jeans for a whole week. The point of the day was to show students that there is no difference between homosexual and heterosexual students. Queer [students of this campus] knew that there would be several students who would not have seen the ad in [the school newspaper], and therefore would not have known that they should make a conscious decision to wear jeans. The point is, that among a crowd, we do not know who is gay. Someone’s sexual orientation does not make them any different than anybody else. The point is not whether someone is gay or straight. The point is getting to know people for who they are. When I got to campus that Friday morning, I had forgotten about the significance of the day, until I got to my 10:20 a.m. class, and one of my classmates announced that we all need to visit the “heterosexual table” his buddies had set up in the Memorial Student Center hallway. A few people in my class smiled about the announcements, and others asked about the significance. My classmate went onto explain about “Jeans day.” At the moment, several students chimed in about how that was the reason they were not wearing jeans today. But one student’s remarks in particular caught my attention. She made the same remarks about not wearing jeans, but then went onto to talk about her gay best friend. What would that best friend think, that any association with him, is something that she needs to eliminate from her life? However, the day got worse. While waiting for the bus, two male students made remarks about wearing khakis and not being caught in jeans. Both were laughing and getting a kick out of themselves. One of the student’s friends drove up, and they all began to laugh about wearing khaki and not having anything to do with “queer” [students]. Our campus has united for many honorable reasons — to honor the death of fellow [students] or participate in [our college's] traditions. However, it is sad to think that our campus united on Friday for the purpose of making one group of students feel unwanted and unwelcomed. It is sad to think that our campus is so backward in its thinking that we cannot let a group host an event without insulting them. Our campus selectively separates individuals. I know that many students base their condemnation of homosexuals on religion. But there are also numerous Bible passages about treating people with respect and love. The students’ remarks made me wonder how accepted any group is on this campus. When I turn my back, is someone laughing at me? When a black student walks into the MSC, are we smiling at the person but really making fun of them? I want to send an apology to [our campus President] because [our college's] Vision 2020 plan will never successfully be implemented. We may develop the best College of Business, and we may have the best College of Liberal Arts. However, we will never be better than the other university down the road [i.e. our arch rivals] because of the juvenile mentality of our students. -------------------------------------- Needless to say, I was absolutely STUNNED to read this article! This is a very conservative campus. The overwhelming majority of the students here are STRONGLY against homosexuality (and anything else which is considered liberal). As expected, two days later, the newspaper received mails from Christian students criticizing the article, saying that the writer herself was in fact narrow minded. It saddens me to see that a Muslimah, a Muslimah who knows better, must be corrected by Christians! Any advice? Should I tell her anything? What? Wassalamu alaikum. ------------------------------------- [This Message was modified by Arsalan on 4/10/01 at 20:00:00] |
| Re: Not so different, after all |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/05/01 at 18:42:56 |
| slm Explain to her what Islam says about gays. Maybe Saleema can talk to her? |
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| Kashif |
| 04/05/01 at 19:19:54 |
| assalaamu alaikum Apart from the two Xhristians, how many Muslim students wrote in criticising her article? |
| NS |
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| jannah |
| 04/05/01 at 19:29:09 |
| hmm the article seemed like more of a "we should be tolerant to ppl who are different" piece. Granted it's implying that being gay is ok, but maybe she believes it is wrong, but her point is that we should be tolerant and not hate others... |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/05/01 at 19:39:23 |
| [slm] Jannah, you hit the bulls eye! But, the question is ... how right is it for her to say that as a Muslimah? Is there or is there not a difference between minorities in general and homosexuals? Note: Her picture was published next to the article wearing the hijaab. This *may* provide a connection in people's minds between her statements and Islam/Muslims! |
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| Iranna326 |
| 04/05/01 at 21:31:24 |
| i agree with jannah, whoever wrote in critizing her completely missed the point of her article. also relay to the muslimah,who wrote the article, that ignorance and intolerance thrive on all campuses. (high school & colleges) when someone can't deal with their own feelings they latch on to a group who's equally confused..thus perpetuating ignorance. i don't think the issue needs to be the preference, but the persecution of the individuals. i thought she was alluding to pple's underlying opinions of islam... |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/06/01 at 00:01:26 |
| [slm] Nazia, I would advise against posting anything from that organization! Jazaak Allaahu Khairan. |
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| Saleema |
| 04/06/01 at 00:50:37 |
| Assalam ualykum, I am offended and I would have written to the newspaper criticizing her article! So what even if she is saying that we should be tolerant, even if she doesn't believe that being gay is okay? Is it even okay to write what she did? There are enough Christians and others who are very tolerant of gays! We don't need Muslims doing that. I'm not saying that they should be killed, but we should not defend them in this manner either. We should do Dawah to people like that but we need to make it perfectly clear to them their position on Islam. Some artist made a picture of "Jesus" on the cross except that it was a naked girl and it is hung up in plain view of evryone at my college. [copy cat. painting sound somewhat familiar?] Astaghferullah! I'm going to be writing a article condemning him! I'm not going to say it's okay, we should be tolerant. I'm not going to say that he needs to be killed either. But as my Muslim duty, I will write something that will probably cause controversy, but I don' care. Gay Rights! Does she support that too? By her article that is what she is supporting really, whether she realizes it or not. Every human being has a right, in fact several rights, but there aren't any special rights for gays. I can't believe that she wrote that! That is really hard for me to beleive. This bring me to another point I wanted to make earlier but didnt get the chance to, I might as well do it here right now. People want Muslims in the journalism field so that they can convery Islam for what it is and try to get rid of the blatant misconceptions about Muslims. And every time Muslims hear of someone who is writing for some paper owned by non-Muslim, we get all happy. I am always on the look out for Muslim Journalists, and I found only one Muslim woman so far who doesn't kiss up to the non-Muslims and says what she has to say. Or maybe she just knows herself, who she is, who she is supposed to be. Today, I read the worst article by a Muslim so far in Newsweek. And now this. wassalam |
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| jannah |
| 04/06/01 at 01:35:44 |
| Again, I think we should give 70 excuses to our sister who wrote the article. I doubt she really understood the implications of her writing that article. While Islam condemns homosexuality, it does give all people human rights. It is not our right to persecute anyone in this country. In an Islamic state, there are laws that would forbid homosexuality and the system itself would take care of it. BTW In Islam we do not "HATE" other people as human beings, we may hate what they do and hate that it keeps them from God, hate certain qualities or attributes in them, the effect it has on society etc but we don't hate them. We ask and love for Allah to guide them and change their qualities. I think this leads us to the problem of vigilante Islam.. I don't know why some people think they are the Islamic state and have the permission to be judge, jury and executioner. In Islam someone accused of something would go to court, have their day and sentence, but sometimes people take it upon themselves to do things in the name of Islam! <sigh> same old i guess |
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| Kashif |
| 04/06/01 at 04:39:10 |
| assalaamu alaikum [quote]Gay Rights! Does she support that too? By her article that is what she is supporting really, whether she realizes it or not.[/quote] Spot on Saleema. Perhaps living in the West all our lives has desensitised us to the sin of homosexuality, whereas, it is the crime for which its people received a terrible if not the WORST punishment from Allah azza wa jall. I bet those gay organisations out there are giving the author a real good pat on the back. And every gay 'Muslim' must be sleeping just that bit easier after reading her words. Kashif Wa Salaam |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/06/01 at 10:38:45 |
| slm [quote]I am always on the look out for Muslim Journalists, and I found only one Muslim woman so far who doesn't kiss up to the non-Muslims and says what she has to say. [/quote] Who? She writes nationally, can we see her work in some magazine or paper? |
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| Saleema |
| 04/06/01 at 13:04:51 |
| Assalam ualykum, I'm not saying that we should go out and execute homosexuals for obvious reasons but does that mean that we suppor them? I don't think so. I'm not hating on the girl who wrote this article, if someone writes for the public then they will be criticized. Bad actions are bad actions, i'm not saying that i hope she goes to hell, but maybe she should fish for islamic stance on issues especially sensitive issues before she writes something on them. People need to be responsible for their actions. People make mistakes, perhaps this was a mistake, but even if it's not people have the right to correct her and comments on the article. Like Kashif said, we have become disensitized to homosexuality, and I bet we will have more gay Muslims popping up everywhere and more and more normal Muslims will become accepting of it. There's a fine line between everything and her article just crossed it. In my former high scool, this year they started a Gay-Straight alliance and my brother who still goes there was asked to join. He declined and said that he does not support of homosexuality and so this Muslimah says, "That was so mean," to him even though she thinks being gay is absolutely haram and gross. So many Muslims signed the petition even though they don't approve of homosexuality because they beleive that they should have their rights too just like everyone else. That's absurd. No one is denying them the right that all humans deserve but they shouldn't ger any special gay rights. What the hell is a gay right anyway? To committ unalwful acts on God's earth? The right to disobey Allah? Texas still has laws against sodomy, anyone caught commiting sodomy is prosecuted. Two men were caught in the act by the police and were prosecuted but they appealed their case to the Supreme Court and the court will hear their case soon. The Supreme Court has to decide if Texas can have such laws and if it deprives homosexuals of their basic rights. So as Muslims should we side with the homosexuals and say that they should be left alone to do whatever they want or should we join those who say that homosexuality is wrong and try giving dawah to these people? I don't think that the answer is that complicated. wassalam |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/06/01 at 13:25:58 |
| bit off the topic but Sr. Saleema, I don't get Newsweek...what was the article you were referring to? Wassalam |
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| se7en |
| 04/06/01 at 13:50:55 |
| as salaamu alaykum, I don't question the fact that supporting homosexuality in any way shape or form is wrong, because as we all know, that is a type of interaction that is clearly established as wrong in Islam. But I question the *method* in which you correct her for doing that. This is a Muslim sister, in hijab, who has a position in media.. a position which grants her opportunities to enlighten and teach the public. there is so much potential benefit that can come from her in her position if it is harvested correctly. My question is, would it be wise to send a complaint to the newspaper about this, ask others to do so, and by doing so show disharmony and conflict among Muslims, and also possibly have those who hired her re-think hiring a Muslim? Maybe you should speak with her privately about it, ask her her reasoning behind writing this article, *gently* correcting her if necessary.. And maybe she'll realize that this might have been a mistake, correct herself, and then inshaAllah, in the future, she'll be able to use the opportunities she has in this position, this capacity for so much daawah, in a good and beneficial way. what do you think? wasalaamu alaykum. |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/06/01 at 14:00:33 |
| slm [quote] what do you think? [/quote] I agree Se7en, there is no need to publically humiliate her. Someone should speak to her in private and advise her in the best possible manner. *cough* notes *cough* |
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| Kashif |
| 04/06/01 at 14:11:29 |
| assalaamu alaikum Arsalan is the man on the ground so he is in the better place to decide what course of action should be taken. But one issue is this: she committed a mistake in a public forum. Now that mistake also needs to be corrected publically. You can't let all the readers go away thinking "oh, these Muslims, they're with us; they sympathise with the gays." We don't. Kashif Wa Salaam |
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| Saleema |
| 04/06/01 at 15:18:31 |
| Assalam ualykum, There is a huge difference in constructive criticism and intellectual debate and humiliating someone. If a journalist or the president of a country, whether Muslims or non-Muslim, does something wrong publicaly then it needs to be addressed publicaly. Muslims should have written to the newspaper saying that homosexuality is not acceptable with leaving Islam out of it and addressing the issue without jumping down the girl's throat. But no one did that. Then the people would have known that Islam does not accept homosexuals. We should find 70 excuses for her and address the issue. Finding 70 excuses for her and ignoring the issue is not a good idea. If you are in a leadership position, the more you have to be careful about what you say and what you do when you are dealing with controversial issues. I have written articles that deal with Islamic issues but I have addressed them in general terms so that everyone could relate to it. I wrote an article once on the benefits of arranged marriages and the harms of dating for a non-Muslim audiance and I got a good response from the non-Muslims as well as Muslims. Muslims could have a responded to her article with as little reference to Islam as possible. As for the Newsweek magazine, i can't remember the guy's name who wrote for them. It was the most recent issue so i think it should still be on line?? his name started an H i think. Anyway, as soon as i can get the information i will post it. wassalam |
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| PacificBreeze |
| 04/06/01 at 23:26:56 |
| assalaamu alaikum bro arsalan..or someone at ur uni..could probably write a letter to the ed..n state that although you agree with the author's general statement of tolerance for ppl of different bkgds etc islam doesn't condone homosexuality etc..something to that affect? homosexuality is an act not an ethnic difference...i'm in a hurry but u could twist it back..with ppl shouldn't treat one another disrespectfully and should be tolerant of others, however, islam doesn't recognize a homosexual relationship etc..if ur at a conservative xian school, u could probably get away with writing that n not sounding bad? or just emphasize the tolerance of being different..n not connecting it to being gay? u could also politely address the author in the letter something like incase she misrepresented islam as accepting homosexuality etc..? n have someone talk it over with her..what did she really mean? was she aware of the tone/msg her article gives? conflict of gays n islam etc.. ws. |
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| Saleema |
| 04/07/01 at 01:26:59 |
| Assalam ualykum, Yes we noticed it at least I and Arsalan did. But I don't want to make any comments on that. That's her problem. That is something her mother should be taking to her about. Wassalam |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/07/01 at 01:27:53 |
| [slm] Amir, I did notice it! But compared to the rest of the article, I think that's a relatively minor point (wallahu a'lam). And then, being the extremist in husnudh-dhann that I am (according to one brother on this board :)), I gave her the benefit of doubt, thinking that she may have axaggerated the situation in order to create a nice lead-in for the story. That is, what she says in the introduction may not have been the real, actual scenario that happened. Wallahu a'lam. I'll write more on what se7en/jannah/saleema/kashif/arshad/abdulbasir have said later insha Allah. Keep your comments coming. Wassalamu alaikum. |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/07/01 at 01:53:17 |
| slm Good point Amir. At first I thought about that, and then dismissed the thought from my mind as I figured it must have been a male, then I don't know what happened to my mind as I read the letter but I was distracted by the homosexual part that I forgot about the drunk and close male friend part. Alhumdullilah you have brought up a very important point. As for Kashif's point about it being public and the issue needs to be corrected, this is true alhumdullilah. The way in which it needs to be corrected publically, can be achieved by going to the girl and advising her in private and then having her respond and correct her mistake publically, or if she refuses, do as Saleema mentioned, speak in general terms publically giving the Islamic stance, without putting the girl down. |
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| MuslimaKanadiyya |
| 04/08/01 at 18:12:41 |
| slm [quote] First I thought that he may be drunk and unable to drive. However, that was not the case. [/quote] I don't think he was actually drunk. wlm |
| trust the sister |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/08/01 at 23:42:24 |
| as salam o aliakum, i just wanted to say i know the sister who wrote the article from A&M and actually had discussed the homosexual issue with her..like a couple of other ppl had mentioned give her the benefit..she has absolutly NO affinity towards gays or gay rights..the sister has done more for muslims and muslims rights that many muslims i know of and does not compromise her religion at all..again it is really sad to see ppl judge muslims withought even knowing her..ask her for clarification and i am sure as sis jannah mentioned u will see what she meant.. |
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| Saleema |
| 04/08/01 at 22:06:15 |
| Assalam ualykum, Anonymous, If you discussed the issue with her, then would you care to explain what she meant by this? wassalam |
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| Asim |
| 04/09/01 at 00:59:55 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, I think we should refrain from talking about the sister in public. I believe all of us will agree that: 1. The message implied in the article is inappropriate coming from a Muslim. 2. We should not discuss the sisters intention without any knowledge and specially in public, and 3. Someone should talk to the sister in private and if possible a public clarification should be made. The article leaves the impression that Muslims support gays rights. This should be clarified in the same newspaper after talking to the sister. I have a feeling that this article will be picked up by 'Muslim' gay groups and distributed in their mailing lists with captions like "one more convert!" The sister just chose a bad subject to convey the message of hate. Sometimes one does not realize how their words would come across to others. And in general... Saleema wrote: If you are in a leadership position, the more you have to be careful about what you say and what you do when you are dealing with controversial issues. This is a key point. We have to be EXTREMELY careful about what we say, especially in a public forum. Jannah mentioned that we don't live in an Islamic state that has courts to judge and rule on our actions affecting the community. This, however, puts the burden of responsibility on each and every one of us individually and we should think many times before writing, saying, or doing something that can harm the community. In particular, we should always ask ourselves whether our actions are being subconsciously influenced by the environment in which we live. Actually a lack of fear of accountability breeds irresponsibility in people. Muslims in local communities often do or say things that create disunity. But because they are not officially 'punished' they don't get it. This however does not mean that every tom, dick, harry, and sally should publicly voice their own judgment on the person. That is wrong also because it will create more disunity. So all round caution is necessary. Wasalaam. |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/09/01 at 13:40:50 |
| as salam o alaikum sorry i am just a little lazy to register..but if ppl care to know who i am..the irc ppl will know me thru zip1 the houston ppl name is zeyn :)..anyway what the topic was about (we talked about a year ago ) and was mainly this that while obviously being homosexual is a MAJOR sin ..none of us try to understand them (not justifying the homosexual lifestyle or anything) rather by being tolerant perhaps we can show them that they doing something wrong(i know maybe only 5% chance of working..but one soul saved is one soul saved) |
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| jannah |
| 04/11/01 at 08:53:36 |
| [slm] This thread is being locked. It was one thing when this situation was being discussed in the abstract. It's another when people begin to find out who the sister is and know her and we discuss her or her actions publicly. Not only is this ghibah and suspicion but this isn't right Islamically when she isn't here to tell her side. |
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