Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Women and adultery |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/22/01 at 19:06:40 |
| Assalamu alikum sisters I was just curious on what the punishment for sisters that commit adultery or have sex before marriage was? Is it (stoning to) death? I was just curious because I have been reading certain articles on 'honour killing' where male relatives kill sisters,mothers,cousins if they find out they have committed adulterous affairs. Many of these honour killings happen in Jordan and there was one incident where a woman was raped (obviously not her fault) but sill kher father killed her because he felt she brought shame to the family. Many of the men who kill are not charged at all. Police ofter turn a blind eye. I was just curious as to what the punishment should be? Because these hounor killings really struck a cord in me. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| jannah |
| 04/22/01 at 19:30:09 |
| wlm, The punishment for women (and men of course!) proven to have committed adultery (when ur married) and fornication (when ur not) are slightly different because adultery is considered worse. However in both cases you must be tried in a court with evidence and they must have FOUR witnesses that saw the act with their own eyes and the faces of the people clearly. It doesn't sound like any of those cases the women were tried in an Islamic court of law, nor were they given a chance to defend themselves. In Islam there's a principle that one is innocent until proven guilty --yes it's from Islam! Anyways "honor killings" are completely unIslamic. it is not allowed for any person to turn into the Khalifa or a judge and make a legal ruling of death upon someone!!! This what happens again when vigilante jahaliyya islam is practiced!!! (We spoke about this before in some other threads) There was an excellent article written about Islamic law by a student in England. It's in a book called "Winning Essays" published by FOSIS. I keep wanting to put it up but don't have time to type it up. Anyway the gist of it is that islamic law is not: a boy goes and steals an apple and the mob grabs him and cuts of his hand in the streets!! Islamic law has a depth and height of principles and complexity that when western scholars of law study it they are amazed. So please don't take Islamic law from the tv or from backwards uneducated muslims living in villages somewhere. Take the time to study a little about Islamic law -- it is beyond enlightening. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/22/01 at 20:11:42 |
| [slm] This is a clear example of how far Muslims have come from implementing the true teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah (example of the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh)! As Jannah mentioned, the punishment for adultery in Islam is stoning to death, whereas the punishment for fornication is a certain number of lashes for both criminals. Rape is a completely different scenario in which the woman is not held accountable for anything. These punishments must be carried out by the Islamic State, after a proper trial, and not by any individual or groups of people, whether they are family members of the guilty couple or not! Furthermore, the court must make its decision after it is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that both people indeed committed the act, and there must be 4 witnesses (at least) who saw the act happen in front of them. There is a famous incident which happened after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) where four people saw a man commit fornication with a woman. The matter was brought to the court and each witness was asked what he saw. Three of them said that they saw this man X have intercourse with this woman Y. However, the fourth person, in his testimony, could not say upon oath that he saw the actual act of "intercourse" while looking at the couple! The result? The couple was sent free, unblemished. And the 4 witnesses were all punished for their "false testimony." What does this show? The only way that you can have 4 people witness the act of illegal intercourse is if the act is pretty much done in public (or if there are no significant precautions taken to perform the act privately). Some people question the harshness of the punishment for illegal intercourse in Islam. But I say, if 4 people are able to see the act, then the act is done in public, and the punishment MUST be severe for such a public, careless display of this sinful act! It's one thing to commit a sin. It's quite another thing to commit it publicly with no shame, or for the act to become rampant among people, corrupting not only the two fornicators/adulterers but also the rest of the society around them! The requirement of having a trial for the crime, and for the matter to be decided completely by the State and not individuals, is also present in other Islamic punishments. Stealing is definitely one of them. The famous Disney movie, Aladdin, shows the "street rat" being chased by shopkeepers running after him to cut his hands for stealing an apple! What rubbish! This is not how an Islamic state functions. First, if a person steals out of need because, say, he cannot find work in the State, then his act of stealing cannot be punished by cutting off his hands! In this case, the State is the guilty party for not providing employment for all of its citizens, so that they can earn a livelihood for themselves and their families. Second, the "street rat" cannot simply be chased by shopkeepers and awarded his punishment on the streets! The matter has to be taken to court, where a trial has to occur, and a judgment has to be made by the judge, and the sentence carried out by the police. There is an established system for everything, far from the chaotic society presented on the screens of Hollywood! I pray to Allah that He guides the Muslims to hold fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah in their daily lives. May Allah give us the ability to establish the Islamic State soon, so the Islamic laws and practices may be carried out in their purest forms. And may He give guidance to the non-Muslims, and prevent such stereotypes from repelling them away from the true beauty of Islam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| AbdulBasir |
| 04/22/01 at 23:26:43 |
| [slm]Good posts guys...just one comment to anonymous...the concept of "honour killing", is a purely cultural practice...in Jordan, and other countries, people who call themselves Christians, Muslims (as well as other religious groups) commit this practice...Unfortunately these people value their cultural beliefs over the basic moral and legal principles of the religious traditions they may claim to follow... And Allah knows best... [slm] |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/23/01 at 07:36:16 |
| Wa 'Alaikum Assalaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh Thanks very much. Things are much clearer now. You all explain things so well! If you have time is it possible you could put up the article written about Islamic law by a student in England. from the winning "Winning Essays" published by FOSIS. That would be very facinating to read. I just like to say I think this page is fantastic. I am learning so much from it :) Jazak-Allah. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| jannah |
| 04/23/01 at 07:38:22 |
| slm, The article is 20 pages of typing. I don't have time currently to put it up. InshaAllah one day in the future. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| Saleema |
| 04/23/01 at 12:03:09 |
| [slm], Jannah, why don't you make se7en do it? What are little siblings good for after all? :) [wlm] |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| se7en |
| 04/24/01 at 16:41:11 |
| [quote]What are little siblings good for after all? [/quote] HEY! Contrary to popular belief, I *have* a life. sort of. InshaAllah I'll start on it, but I got some meccah/myna/alim/msa stuff goin on I need to work on first, and I owe a whole bunch of people notes. InshaAllah soon. wasalaamu alaykum. |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/24/01 at 18:32:38 |
| slm [quote]HEY! Contrary to popular belief, I *have* a life. sort of. InshaAllah I'll start on it, but I got some meccah/myna/alim/msa stuff goin on I need to work on first, and I owe a whole bunch of people notes. InshaAllah soon. [/quote] a whole book of notes |
| Re: Women and adultery |
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| se7en |
| 04/25/01 at 14:02:55 |
as salaamu alaykum, [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=masjid&action=display&num=2738]Here[/url] is an article on accusations of major sins and the consequences of them in shariah. |
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