on what grounds can u reject a proposal??

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on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/23/01 at 16:34:32
AA sisters

i was just wondering on what grounds us women can refuse a marriage proposal.  
Can we say no 2 things like a guy isnt educated as us or he isnt our type??

plz let me know asap, this is urgent.
w/salam

a confused sis
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/24/01 at 14:27:09
asalm walakum you can refuse for what ever reason you want, its up to you who you marry.
in islam the main conditions of marrage are offer and exceptence. if you dont except some one there is no marrage
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/24/01 at 16:22:32
What if he is educated and islamic and was someone your father wants
you to marry. My father has been forcing me to marry someone and he said I have
no good reason to reject him. Which in a way is true. I don't like the way he
looks and he is seven years older than me. I suppose these are shallow things to
look at but I really don't want to marry him. My father kept on being horrid to
me until I gave in and said yes. I have made a commitment and will have an
engagement ceremony and meet his parents later in the year. Because I made the
commitment my father says I cannot back out now. I keep having nightmares now and I
really don't want to marry him. I don't know what to do but I am to scared to
say anything. My dad knows I don't want to marry him but he keeps telling me he
is good for me. Sometimes I think if I marry I can then divorce him. I am too
scared to go against my father and sometimes I wish I wasn't alive. Is there any
prayer I can do to help me. Would I be in the wrong if I went against my father
and left?

Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
meraj
04/24/01 at 19:06:58
slm,

dont wait until you get married and have a 'trial run'... divorce shouldnt be something to keep as a backup plan just in case.. its only to be used as a final final last resort under certain circumstances.

i think the best thing to do is to consult with an imam in your community or a scholar on the matter, someone with whom you can explain your situation with in detail and whom can possibly speak with your parents.

allahualim.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/24/01 at 20:27:58
assalam alaikum wa rahmatu allahi wa baraktuhu!

my dear sister, its not fair to you or to him that you marry him against your
will.  Your father is not acting according to Islam.  As your wali he is to
represent you in this situation. May Allah guide him to the truth. The dua you can
make is the dua for istikhara because with the words of that dua you are asking
Allah to decree for you what is good for you and make you pleased with it, and
to turn away from you and turn you away from what is not good for you.  I
encourage you to make this dua and ask Allah for help. If you don't know the dua,
please reply saying so and Insha allah I will post it here for all.

If talking to your father is not working, you can talk to your mother and
explain to her that he is not attractive to you, and she can explain to your father.
If talking to them doesn't work you can write them a note (I did that) to let
them know what you are looking for in a marriage.  Too many sisters are going
through this! May Allah strengthen us and help is all to return to Him with
sincerity.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
se7en
04/24/01 at 22:12:16
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah,

You *cannot* be forced into a marriage you do not want to be in.  You can reject a proposal for any reason you choose to... you are choosing not only a companion, but an ameer, someone you will share a household, a family, and the rest of your life with.  

And rejecting a proposal because you are not physically compatible with the brother is not shallow or, I would argue, even wrong.  This person is also your physical outlet for life, and therefore should be someone you are attracted to, or at least satisfied with.  

An engagement is not a contract; it is a promise.  It's not good to break your promises but it's far worse to allow yourself to be put in a situation that would be detrimental for you and for this brother, for your families and for the family you two may have in the future.  

An engagement is *not* a contract and therefore is *not* binding upon you.  Either party, meaning you or the brother you are engaged to, can break it at any time for whatever reason.  

Do *not* go into a marriage with the intention of getting divorced in a year.  Let your father know that you are unhappy with this situation, and that you do not want to marry this brother.  Get your mother or some other family members to speak with him about this... even go to your community, to some of your fathers friends or the imam and ask them to speak with him about this.

You have every right to be in a marriage with someone you are happy and satisfied with.  Marriage is not to force two people together for cultural or biological reasons at the expense of their happiness but for two people to live with one another in peace and tranquility and to encourage each other in khayr.   

may Allah reward and guide you sister...  
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/25/01 at 06:15:25
ASalm  walakum,, as i mentioned before, without concent there is no marrage. even if your reason is stupied, it is your choce whether you marry him, and it is your right to refuse, even for a stupied reason if you so wish. you have to also remember you are a girl, divorce is not easy for you, you need a good shriah reason before you can have it. so if you marry him, you could be stuck with him for the rest of your life. i'm male, if i marry someone i dont like i can have divorce by just saying "i divorce you".
but on the other hand, in the issue of marrage it is mundud to obey your perents, so if you do you may be reworded for it, but it is up to you, just like non-farrad salat.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/25/01 at 21:10:24
Assalamu 'Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh

It's just sometimes its very difficult to speak to your father. He is someone
you respect and even though mine is strict I don't feel mad at him for being so
I know he acts the way he does because he 'believes' he is doing the best for
me. Unfortunately the way he acts makes me very timid with him and scared to go
against what he says. I have tried to give my opinion in this case but again I
felt very shallow by saying I wasn't physically attracted to him and he was
older.

I don't have contact with my mum. My father and mother had an arranged marriage
and they were not very compatiable. Which is ironic because my father is making
me go through the same thing. Which makes me even more scared about marriage.

I have been told that marriage is not a fairytale love story. The real love is
supposed to develop after you marry.

But please could you put the istikhara up.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/26/01 at 00:46:29
Salaam sister,

OK, I know many won't agree with my suggestion, but here it is: if there's any
way you can contact the brother (let's say via e-mail), maybe you could give
him some hints that you are being forced in that marriage.  You could let him
know that you don't mean to hurt him in any way, but that for the happiness of
both of you, it would be better if you don't get married.  So maybe in the end, he
will be the one finding an excuse not to marry you.  Make du'as.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/26/01 at 08:47:58
asalm walakum, as i said, there can be no marrage with out concent.
your father will know this.
it is true marrage is not a fairy tail. that never happens. and it is also true you cant go around behaving like a prostitutes to try and pick up men. if you feel what your father has found is exceptable to you marry him, if some one else like your brother or some one can find you better then tell them to. every one wants what they regard as perfect, but the fact is that perfection does not exist, and some one who is better in your eyes, my not like you. but also remember that when you decide on some one, it is very hard to get out, as you will need a good reason to get divorced. and due the the disaperence of polygamy, nowadays it is almost impossible for divorced women to get married again, due to them having to compete with vigins.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Mona
04/26/01 at 12:09:31
Assalamu alaikum,

Sister anonymous, it is true that no one can force you to marry anyone, not even your father can make you.  

However, I am going to be a radical here and advise you to re-think matters.  I feel that you may have judged the prospective finace without having sat down with him to discuss issues about this.  This is my impression and I could be wrong.  

First of, 7 years isn't that great of a difference, not even by the standards of this day and age.  You not liking how he looks like is a completely valid reason for you to reject the proposal.  However, again, I suggest to give it some thought and time.  Maybe you'll like other attributes about him once the two of you sit down and openly discuss matters about the potential marriage.  First impressions can be deceiving. And as the cliche goes, don't judge a book by its cover.

I get the feeling too that you are afraid of going through the same process that led to your parents' separation.  So again, you are being a bit prejudiced here, and not giving the guy the benefit of doubt.  Insha'Allah pray istikharah and give things another go so that you may formulate an opinion based on solid facts.  Make sure that you are able to communicate clearly with your dad, because he is your walee and he of course has your best interest in mind.  Recruit the aid of uncles and aunties or elder siblings.  Insha'Allah things work out for the best.

Wassalam
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Kathy
04/26/01 at 21:03:54
slm

[qukte]due the the disaperence of polygamy, nowadays it is almost impossible for divorced women to get married again, due to them having to compete with vigins.[/quote]


That is so untrue- I had many knocking on my door after my divorce!
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Saleema
04/26/01 at 21:42:15
[slm]

due the the disaperence of polygamy, nowadays it is almost impossible for divorced women to get married again, due to them having to compete with vigins.

You were the lucky one then sister Kathy. And what ethnic back grounds were they from?

People from Asian background hardly ever marry widows or divorcees. It's really sad. Many of these stupid ignorant cultural practices are taken from Hinduism.


[wlm]
Saleema
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Kathy
04/27/01 at 08:59:29
Most of the brothers were Arabs. There were a couple of Paki's.- however their families really tried to be open.

Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/27/01 at 10:59:06
asalm walakum,, sister kathy,, May be this is more to do with you and your extra qualities then men being willing to marry divorced.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
tq
04/27/01 at 14:25:09
Assalamo elkiuim
Sister Anonymous, I wish and pray the best for you but please consider what Sister Mona has written(I hardly ever disagree with her opnions/replies- Mashallah so wise!)
Also 7 years difference is not a big difference. Me and my husband also have around the same age(a littel more)difference adn believe me most of the time it looks like that I am the older one :) and ofcourse the wiser one also ;)
Good Luck , may Allah gives you what is good for you.

Wasalam
tq
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/28/01 at 00:39:30
I don't want to be rude or discrimative so please don't take this the
wrong way but I have noticed many 'muslim' men prefer to marry women who look
european/amercian. If there is choice between a woman who is divorced and
european looking and a woman who was never married and not european looking the men
go for the diviorced woman. Its just my observation. Tell me if you disagree.

By the way where are you from Kathy?
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Mona
04/28/01 at 07:11:02
Assalamu alaikum,

[quote]I have noticed many 'muslim' men prefer to marry women who look european/amercian.[/quote]

True in some cases. But don't let that make you sad.  Allah has pre-written who's going to marry whom and who's gonna find happiness and contentment in marriage.

Some men are indeed shallow. They have some sort of an inferiority complex and would just do anything to marry someone with european features, without looking at the deen/character. Do you want to marry someone this shallow?  This attitude is actually a big nuisance [correct me if I am wrong, Kathy] to the very good revert sisters because they have to deal with very persisting men who don't look or think beyond outer appearance.

tq - thank you sister,  i'm blushing.

wassalam
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Kathy
04/28/01 at 09:11:12
slm

I am from NY, I was in Chicago when I was looking for a husband.

I am not pretty- so it had to be my deen they were after- or my greencard!

Ironically enough- the man I married lived in my home town!

Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Saleema
04/28/01 at 14:46:05
[slm]

They have some sort of an inferiority complex and would just do anything to marry someone with european features, without looking at the deen/character. Do you want to marry someone this shallow?

When the british colonized what is today india and pakistan as well as other parts of that region they discriminated against people of dark color. They would treat the ones with lighter skin a little better than the ones with darker skin and give them some special treatment. So this mentality for everything european, from skin color to the system of government still persists in people's minds to this day. And remember the european countries didn't leave the region that long ago so inshallah it will take time for the people to leave some of the stupid ways. Also many Muslims from around that area there forefathers were hindus and they kept some of the cultural practices and prejudices even after they converted to Islam.

Blue Eye is a good book that explores this topic in depth. It's written by Toni Morrison. It's a wonderful book and not that thick. The story is about a young black girl who prays for blue eyes because she thinks that she is ugly and that by having blue eyes she will be beautiful. That society will accept her. *Excellent* book. Read it!
[wlm]
Saleema
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Anonymous
04/28/01 at 23:10:19
When you put it that way I think I'd rather be me Allhamdulliah and
not have the same unwanted attention as sister Kathy :)

Mind you when I went online (muslim husband search site) I met this
muslim guy who was arab/pakistani and he said he looked European. I told him I
was Indian and he told me to get lost because Indians were short and 'not fair'
enough for him. Then he said he was a proper muslim and because I was
Indian I wasn't a proper muslim. I was so shocked.

I couldn't help myself (i know I am naughty) so I went online again and posed
as a European convert and communicated with the same guy. His arms were so open
wide to me and he wanted to marry me.

I felt so low and insecure after that and I thought what if I am a  bad muslim
and he is good? Its just comments and attitudes from brothers/sisters like that
which makes me wonder if I am in the wrong. But I realised he was the bad'an
and not me! I guess for sister Kathy you have to
look out for these type of guys. Some may seem really nice BUT.....

Anyway one thing I've noticed is that it may not be a good idea to marry for
looks alone! When I see add's of first
timers (apart from having a green card :) )'looks' usually lists high
as a main prority. With divocee's things are different since thier adds usually
require someone religious + good personality. (Perhaps they married someone for
looks alone 1st round and realised it wasnt what they expected!)

Since divorcees are more experienced I think they know a bitmore about marriage
so I will use their criteria in  my husband search :) Does anyone agree?
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Barr
04/29/01 at 09:09:23
Dear Sister,

I think I would have to agree with Sis Mona on this, and Sr Mona, I don't think you're being radical. :)

Give the brother a chance. I know that being attracted to the person is important. But sometimes, the attraction comes later, and so would love. Do talk to him and find out more about him, as mentioned by Sr Mona. But pls make clear to him that you are willing to CONSIDER him, and not a "YES, I'd marry you" kinda thing.

Sometimes, a good man comes, yet we just brushed him aside becoz, he is not the IDEAL one, we have high expectations or perhaps we expect sparks to suddenly appear when we see him.

Since your father likes him so much, I'm sure there is something in him, that is worth the while to look into. And a parent's blessing is very important in a marriage as well.

And after all that, all of the consultation with others and after all the thinking and rationalising, do also use your heart. And remember, the answer of your istikharah is from within. And follow through. Trust Allah with the answer that He gives you, even if it is something that U didn't expect. And lastly, take ALL the time you want, and tell your dad to give you time to think :-) ANd of course, Make sure that this is YOUR DECISION... not others.
Also, becareful of Shaitan, for he dislikes marriages to take place....

All the best ukhti.. and if it's meant to be, it'll be, for marriage is a matter decreed... it's a match made by the Almighty :-)

And plus, what Sr Mona and Sr TQ said about 7 years... seriously, that is not a big gap at all! You see, men, they look all tough outside, but they're actually 'lil boys inside ;) I think 7 years is just perfect! :)
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Barr
04/29/01 at 09:24:40
Hmmm... just a thought...

[quote]I have noticed many 'muslim' men prefer to marry women who look european/amercian.[/quote]

In retrospect, I do observe that sisters who converted to Islam, get taken (off the shelf) faster than those born in Muslim families.... hmmmm....

I can think of a few reasons... but what does the rest think?? [apart from some men who like the European look- But then again, even those who do not have those looks, but are converts do still, get married earlier. But I don't think this is the case for brothers who converted though....hmmm]
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/30/01 at 04:12:34
asalm walakum, Sister Kathy, you are not qualified to say whether or not you are attractive, only males can answer that question. So may be you got proposals because you a pretty.
And all the sisters, why all them brother bashing? You lot are not feminists, and any way, sisters look for looks as well. Its natural because before you get to know some one all you know of them is what they look like. So when people are shown a list of people and asked which one they want to find out more on, they will chose the good looking ones. I am really bad on the inside and I get lodes, but its true that they all seem to change their minds when they find out more about me.
i am trying to find a brother for some one and She completely refused to even look at all short people.
So men might like light skined, but women have their own criteria. any way, women like men with lodes of money.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
nehar
04/30/01 at 06:09:52
[slm]

anon, i must say that the arab guy who sed u werent proper mulsim is ignorant.

Correct me if i am wrong.  There r 4 things u can marry a women 4;
1)beauty
2)her caste
3)her wealth
4) her religion

the best person will marry 4 religon. I may b wrong, so correct me if i am. Allah knows best.

[wlm]

Nehar
Foot in Mouth Condition?
AbuKhaled
04/30/01 at 11:31:27
Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem.

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

“Sister Kathy, you are not qualified to say whether or not you are attractive, only males can answer that question.”

Brother Jehad,

A parable for you:

There was once a servant in the court of a King. He was one of many who served the Kings needs. One evening the King announced he was feeling hungry. This servant, in his zeal to please his master, *rushed* forward with a tray laden full of delightful foodstuffs. All the other servants hastened towards the King too with their own trays full to the hilt with assorted delicious foodstuffs. But this particular servant wanted to be the *first* to serve his King, to be the one who was responsible for his master to be satiated, and thus satisfied. Overwhelmed by this devotional sincerity to achieve his desire, he overlooked that others were around, and in his unabounding enthusiasm, he forgot to look ahead, and tripped. It was a perfect mis-step, even graceful in spite of its unexpectedness. Almost balletic.

As he stumbled, the whole tray of mouthwatering food landed on the King, covering him head to toe in pastries, cooked meats, pate, flavoured rice, savouries, and all the rest. The king was furious and bellowed at his servant. The servant could only meekly holler in return, “But sire, I was only trying to please you, I never intended for this.” Yet the King remained bemused.

Akhi Jehad, go figure…

Abu Khaled
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jannah
04/30/01 at 11:46:09
jehad you say a sister is
[quote] not qualified to say whether or not you are attractive,[/quote]
yet you also mention

[quote]So when people are shown a list of people and asked which one they want to find out more on, they will chose the good looking ones.[/quote]
then only women can say what men are good looking and only men can say what woman is good looking? i find that difficult to believe.


[quote] why all them brother bashing? [/quote]

so if they mention something that a brother is doing not in accordance to the sunnah it's brother bashing? if that is true your post on sisters doing gheebah must be "sister bashing" eh?

[quote] women like men with lodes of money.[/quote]

so you've met every woman in the world and know how they think huh?
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
morning_mist
04/30/01 at 11:59:07

Assalaamu alaikum,
Some advice for sr. anonymous: pray istikharah with an open mind/heart trying to leave everything up to Allah swt.  If after istikharah, you are still not comfortable marrying this person--DON'T.  There is probably a reason you have that feeling.  He could be a fine person but just not right for you!  As far as your father, you have to find a way to be respectful but also be strong and stand your ground if your final decision is not to marry him. Allah swt gave you the right to have the final say on who you marry and NO BODY has the right to take that away from you.   Life is full of stressful things and you have to be able be strong sis.  Reach out to knowledge ppl in your community for support and help.  May Allah guide you and your father to what is right and best.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
jehad
04/30/01 at 12:32:19
asalm walakum, Jannah I agree  that my last statement could of been worded better. About women, and men with lodes of money.
I haven't met every women in the world, and I don't talk to none relatives any way. But women do look for certain things in men, and it seems when given a choice they will prefer money over looks, how else do all those really old men get married to young girls?
Any way I admit only women can answer the question about what women look for in men. So if all the women say I am wrong, then I am wrong as you are better qualified about what you like then me.

How can women know what men find attractive in women, they are not men. There is a difference between what men find attractive and what women think men find attractive. I would advise the sisters who think they are ugly to ask a male relative what they look like. We are a better judge of what we like then you. The western media is putting a image of the kind of women men find attractive to give women low self-esteem and make them think that being attractive to men only comes with expensive make up and expensive diets. This is done only to make money. A lot of women who do not fit the media image of a attractive women, in reality are found to be very attractive by men.
Men find women who cover them selves and who keep away from men very attractive. This may sound corny, but some kind of noor emanates from them making them look better the more they cover. All Muslim men I have spoken to prefer nikab to hijab. Even kaffar men have respect for Muslim women when they see them. Kaffer men have spoken to me about this, and they have told me how they would like to marry Muslim women and get very upset when I tell them there is no marriage between a Muslim women and a kaffar.
Re: on what grounds can u reject a proposal??
Saleema
04/30/01 at 14:16:55
[slm]

how else do all those really old men get married to young girls?

That happens mostly in Arab culture.

[wlm]
Saleema


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