Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Questions about Salah |
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| Ikrima |
| 04/24/01 at 08:53:19 |
| [slm] 1.When one arrives late to the prayer and the Imam has finished reciting Fatiha, should he begin reciting Fatiha once he enters the prayer? 2.Should you recite aloud during Sunnah prayers? Is it any different when you're praying sunna and someone joins you to make their Fard prayer? [slm] |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| Rashid |
| 04/24/01 at 13:54:24 |
| slm This is my understanding, if I'm wrong please correct me: 1) When one is late in joining the jamaat, you join and follow the imam. If Fatihah has been recited, it is not necessary to repeat fatihah, but if the first ruku has been performed, then after the imam gives salaam you must make up the missed rakaah. 2) Sunnah salat are said quietly. If you're praying sunnah and someone joins you for their fard salat, the prayer is not valid since the intention is not the same. Whoever leads the prayer makes intention for the whole jamaat. And Allah knows best. |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| jehad |
| 04/24/01 at 14:32:33 |
| there is a difference of opinion, ask the ulimah of your madhab |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/25/01 at 00:46:58 |
| [slm] [quote]2) Sunnah salat are said quietly. If you're praying sunnah and someone joins you for their fard salat, the prayer is not valid since the intention is not the same. Whoever leads the prayer makes intention for the whole jamaat.[/quote] I'm not sure if this is correct. There are many problems with this answer actually. First, sunnah salaahs are not necessarily said quietly. If one wishes, he can say them out loud. Remember the Prophet (pbuh) often used to pray qiyaam-al-layl in a loud voice. Second, if the person who joins you while you're praying sunnah joins with the intention of praying fard (or sunnah or whatever), then his prayer is valid for what he intended it to be. He will simply get additional reward for praying this prayer in a jamaa'ah with you. If he joins the prayer with the intention of whatever the imam's (your) intention is, then he is simply praying sunnah in a jamaa'ah with you. Third, the statement "whoever leads the prayer makes intention for the whole jamaat" is incorrect. Recall the incident when the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) who used to reside in the outskirts of Madina brought their problem to him, complaining that their imaam (of the *other* Masjid in Madina, other than Masjid an-Nabwi) insisted on praying Ishaa with the Prophet (pbuh) in his mosque, and thus they did not have anyone to lead them in prayer. The Prophet (pbuh) advised the imaam to pray Ishaa with him if he wished, but to go back to his masjid afterwards and lead the people in prayer. He (pbuh) advised the imaam to lead his people with the intention of praying voluntary prayers, while the people would pray their prayers behind him with the intention of Ishaa. This is what I know, and Allah certainly knows best. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| Rashid |
| 04/25/01 at 14:38:33 |
| [slm] I wasn't aware of this incident with the Prophet. But I was reminded that not all sunnah salat are said quietly, for example taraweeh is said outloud. But thanks for the tip and I'll ask the imam about this. |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| assing |
| 04/26/01 at 16:43:36 |
| As salaamu alaykum, going back to the sisters original question: "1.When one arrives late to the prayer and the Imam has finished reciting Fatiha, should he begin reciting Fatiha once he enters the prayer?", the actual question implied here if i understand her correctly is goes back to question whether or not it is an obligation to recite Al Fatihah behind the imam for every salah based on the general understanding of the hadeeth "There is no prayer for the one who did not recite Al Fatihah" {Al Bukhari}? Well, first of all i must say there is "kalaam taweel" {endless discussion} from the scholars about this issue, whereby it can be basically settled down to the three following opinion: 1. Those who say that it is obligatory upon the person praying behind the imam in every salah, silent or aloud, and the is the opinion of the As Shafi'ee madhab, Ahlu'l Hadeeth and this is the common fatwa given by the scholars of the Hijaaz {Saudi Arabia} such as Shaikh Bin Baz, Shaikh Uthaymeen and Shaikh Saalah Al Fawzan {and they all based they argument mainly on previously mentioned hadeeth}. 2. Those who say that the one praying behind the imam should not recite the Fatihah for any salah, for the imam recitation suffices them, and this is the oinion of the Hanafi madhab. 3. Those who reconcile between the two previous opinions by saying yes reciting the Fatihah is the basis for every person for every salah, however an exception is made when the prayer is said aloud that one does not have to say it { for fajr, maghrib and isha}, and this is the opinion of the Malikiyah madhab, ibn Taymiyyah and in our times Shaikh Nasir Deen Al Albani in which he convincingly explains this in his book "The Prophet's Prayer Described", and this is the opinion i am inclined towards, and Allah knows best: The Abrogation of Recitation behind the Imaam in the Loud Prayers He had given permission for those being led by the Imaam to recite Soorah al-Faatihah in the loud prayers, when once: "he was praying Fajr and the recitation became difficult for him. When he finished, he said: Perhaps you recite behind your imaam. We said: "Yes, quickly, O Messenger of Allaah." He said: Do not do so, except for [each of you reciting] the opening chapter of the Book, for the prayer is not valid of the one who does not recite it. Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all, when: "He finished a prayer in which he was reciting loudly (in one narration: it was the dawn prayer) and said: Were any of you reciting with me just now?! A man said: "Yes, I was, O Messenger of Allaah". He said: I say, why am I contended with? [Abu Hurairah said:] So the people stopped reciting with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) when he was reciting loudly after hearing that from him [but they recited to themselves quietly when the imaam was not reciting loudly]." He also made silence during the imaam's recitation part of the completeness of following the imaam, saying: The imaam is there to be followed, so when he says takbeer, say takbeer, and when he recites, be silent, just as he made listening to the imaam's recitation enough to not have to recite behind him, saying: He who has an imaam, then the recitation of the imaam is recitation for him - this applying in the loud prayers. The Obligation to Recite in the Quiet Prayers As for the quiet prayers, he urged them to recite during them; Jaabir said, "We used to recite behind the imaam in Zuhr and 'Asr: soorah al-Faatihah and another soorah in the first two rak'ahs, and soorah al-Fatihah in the last two." However, he dissuaded them from confusing him with their recitation, when: "he prayed Zuhr with his Companions and said (afterwards): Which of you recited "Glorify the name of your Lord the Most High" (soorah al-A'laa, 87)? Someone said: It was I [but I was only intending nothing but good by doing so]. So he said: I knew that someone was contending with me by it. In another hadeeth: "They used to recite behind the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) [loudly], so he said: You have mixed up my (recitation of the) Qur'aan. He also said: Truly, the person praying is privately consulting his Lord, so he should be careful about what he consults him with, and you should not recite the Qur'aan loudly over each other. {Btw, all the ahadeeth here are authentic, and if you would like futher reading then go to: http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html} |
| NS |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| Ikrima |
| 04/27/01 at 18:02:05 |
| [slm] [quote]going back to the sisters original question[/quote] Btw, I was named after the great Sahaba Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl, and he certainly wasn't no sister! :) Regarding the opinion of those who say that the Imam's recitation is sufficient, what if they came late and MISSED the Imam's recitation. Is it still sufficient even though they weren't there to hear it? [slm] |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| assing |
| 04/28/01 at 12:08:23 |
| Akhee i apologize for refering to you as sister {i know how that must have hurt, especially since our are a real rajul}. Anyways, your question; "Regarding the opinion of those who say that the Imam's recitation is sufficient, what if they came late and MISSED the Imam's recitation. Is it still sufficient even though they weren't there to hear it?" Your are indeed correct for the messenger {saw} said "Whoever has caught the raka {caught the imam while he is in a stage of ruku'} has indeed caught the salah", so based on the understanding of this hadeeth not only was the person unable to say the Fatihah, but also he was just bearly able to catch up with the imam while he is in ruku, and inspite of this the messenger saw} said the he has caught the salah, i.e. that is counted for him as a complete raka and he does not have to make up that particular raka' he caght at the end of the salah. Hence, if it was obligatory to say the surahAl Fatihah at this stage then messenger {saw} would have said "whoever was able to recite the fatihah, then he has caught the salah", and he did not say this. Thus, if the person catches the salah behind the imam while in ruku and he was unable to recite the fatihah, then that raka is still valid and considered a complete raka, and none of the previously mentioned above schools of thought and opinions {of the scholars} have differed about this to my knowledge. And Allah knows best. |
| NS |
| Re: Questions about Salah |
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| muhannad |
| 04/28/01 at 13:10:36 |
| [quote]Btw, I was named after the great Sahaba Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl, and he certainly wasn't no sister! [/quote] Actually Ikrimah is a female word (due to taa marbuta) which has been used to name a male. Therefore it is mamnu' min as-sarf so its full pronunciation is 'ikrimatu and not 'ikrimatun. Moreover it is majrur with a fathah instead of a kasrah e.g. min 'ikrimata (from Ikrima) Just a nice interesting point which I hope benefits :) |
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