Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| "props" |
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| Iranna326 |
| 04/24/01 at 14:25:09 |
| i just want everyone else to know what dhikr did today.... dhikr and i are in a program together that could be described as a internship thru albany high at albany med. everyone should kno that she is VERY passionate about becoming a doctor-however today when it was her to visit the O.R. (operating room) they declined her acceptance in because of her "scarf", they may have had a valid medical reason, but i doubt they decline muslim surgeons to do their work. i just thought she should kno' everyone in our class including the teacher really respected her decision. i kno she really wanted to go-so i'm sorry-my question is was that discrimination or not? |
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| jannah |
| 04/24/01 at 16:04:18 |
| what the hell is that?!! they wouldn't let her in because she was wearing a scarf!!!??? they should make accomodations for her to be able to go in with her scarf if they need disinfected clothes or whatever! why couldn't they give her another cloth and she could have used that as hijab??? that is not right.. especially if it is a program through a public high school. they cannot descriminate on the basis of religion!! ackkk what can we do about it.. should we write/call someone?? let me know |
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| dhikr |
| 04/24/01 at 16:45:02 |
| assalaamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh sigh... tibet i was extremely pissed at what happened at the OR but i kept my cool which is a good thing. i dont want to talk abt it much rite now b/c i have a feeling ill talk from my anger and i mite start cursing again. but im going to repsond to this in more detail soon inshallah, when i think it over a little bit more. abdulbasir, can u reply if u could tell me a little bit more abt the OR at albany med and how they handle things, cuz if i find out how things reely work i think i can get my teacher to yell at them and make them apologize to me for treating me like crap. one last note, Albany Medical Center sucks like crazy, never go there, cuz theyre soo cold. hehe:) struggles we just gotta face rite? (maaan i was reeely looking forward to that heart surgery too) make dua for me guys, hadda ruff day. salaaam razia |
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| AbdulBasir |
| 04/24/01 at 17:06:20 |
| [slm]May Allah reward sr. dhikr to sticking to her principles. I don't believe this is direct discrimination, but rather a lack of understanding on their part founded on their ignorance. However, i don't know the details of the incident, only sr. dhikr can tell us if she thought this was partly discriminatory. Indeed, you cannot enter the operating room wearing anything but scrubs and a hospital mask and head cover. No outside clothes are permitted. Standard hospital rules there, nothing u can do about it. However, there are multiple masks/head covers. There is even one that is sort of in the same fashion as the kind of head cover you see that a diver wearing a wetsuit wears. It covers the ears, head and only shows the face. That could have been put on tightly and one could have always put on other hospital masks/head covers and fulfilled the hijab requirement. If a sister gets a chance to go, try that. As long as you are using all hospital garments and masks/head covers, there is nothing that can be called into question. In fact some of the male surgeons down there wear that hijab-type head covering. One of the people there should have suggested the above; but they were probably either too ignorant or too dumb to think of it. One just needs to be creative. Hard to say whether to file a complaint, because I don't know the details of the situation. If this incident was in your opinion based on more than sheer stupidity and miscommunication, then please let me know as well. Perhaps something can be done to avoid such incidents in future. BTW the people down there, particularly the scrub nurses, are the meanest people in most people's opinion. They treat medical students and residents like garbage. However, that doesn't make it right, and particularly with high school students who are not affiliated with Albany Med coming in they should have acted better. If they acted rudely and inappropriately, this should be addressed, even if this isn't a case of discrimination. Again, hard to fully comment with just the information presented so far. But here to help if something can be done inshallah. [slm] |
| Re: "props" |
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| muhannad |
| 04/24/01 at 18:26:30 |
| I have had similar problems with my beard. Basically I had been told by "some individuals" that it is a potential source of cross-infection control and that it needs to be covered totally - this is a REASONABLE POINT (for both the patient and the health practioner). Anyway me and another brother (who masha Allah has a lions mane of a beard) have been on the search for alternatives for the last few months e.g masks we found in the UK, only come in one size which is too small. Sometimes a gown might be appropriate plus visor etc. I remember the first time I introduced myself to the consultant (a rare breed of arrogant humans!) and she looked at me and said abruptly, "So your going to do something about that then ?" I replied, " Sorry, what do you mean ?" she said "your beard, its a mess" I "politely" declined her offer and then explained that it was religious etc etc. She left the matter because in the UK we have freedom of speech etc etc Allahu akbar ! (as i have never shaved properly in my life my beard is the fuzzy type which is thin and projects out at strange angles !) no comments please Kashif, ;-) Recently i have taken to wearing two masks one too push my beard against the chin and the other to cover the normal area. In saying that though I would only use one (mask) if no aerosol is generated. With sisters it is slightly more problematic, and I think Abdul-Basir's suggestions are pretty good so next time you can try them. I think with all these things you have to be polite but firm and as they say, "ista'inu bisabri was salah wa innaha lakabiratun ilaa ala al-khashi'in" Remember you will be tried in this life until you die, and as ibn Taymiyyah once remarked, "he who feels safe from fitnah has already fallen into it but he doesn't realise" ps. if anyone knows any suppliers of big face masks please can you contact me. |
| props to dhikr |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/24/01 at 18:30:45 |
| slm Well I'm not going to that Albany OR ever, I'm taking my business elsewhere (not that I need OR). What a bunch of punks. This amounts to religious bigotry. If there are any letters of protest to send in, count me in. |
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| muhannad |
| 04/24/01 at 18:42:11 |
| what about sikhs in the OR ?! |
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| AbdulBasir |
| 04/24/01 at 19:51:21 |
| [slm]The people who work in the OR (any OR) tend to be very very very sensitive, strict and unaccomodating about anything which contaminates the environment, so as to prevent the spread of microrganisms. There are a lot things that are not allowed in the OR that would surprise most people who've never been in there. Unfortunately in this situation, when you throw in a lot of ignorance, stupidity and a general lack of awareness on their part, this sterile radicalism was likely exacerbated and may possibly have become another kind of radicalism. And that would be something that needs to be probed into. BTW in regards to my comment about the scrub nurses and OR people being mean, this is something universal in every hospital anywhere. Anyone who ever goes to an OR anywhere, especially as an observer who they tend to devalue, regard as more of a nuisance and an extra operative hazard to worry about, will experience their sterile radicalism and often sour manner. Muhannad, I know exactly what you're talking about with the beard. This is something that is particularly addressed with us in regards to respiratory fit masks. People with full beards here must wear the big helmet type respiratory fit masks. In the OR, you wear the big helmet, hijab-esque hood, that covers chin and neck with a gown. This issue of Sikhs in the OR really makes me think, because I have never seen one in the OR. I have never seen a muhajaba in the OR either. The Muslim women surgeons I know are not wearing hijab. I spent some time figuring out what a sister would have to do to wear hijab and do surgery and came up with what I said before. Out of curiosity, it would be nice to know if that is what some sisters actually do. But after working it out, I don't think it would be complicated; again it's all about creativity. [slm] PS: Oh yeah bhaloo, they are not all bad down there, and if you ever visited Albany and were attacked by an angry cow or one of the Albany mafia, I would suggest you go there before any other place (actually you would have to go there). Because we have an awesome trauma surgeon brother who spent years treating the [i]mujahideen[/i] during the war in Afghanistan. Just something for you to know if you ever visit here, and, how shall I say, have an unfortunate "accident" :) |
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| Mahmoodah |
| 04/24/01 at 20:06:23 |
| [slm] i think that all hijabi's should b proud of there hijab, and if they r discriminated for it, then they should stand up 4 it. I waz bullied by the teachers in my middle school 4 wearing a hijab, and going home for prayer. And then soon i realised that there had to b a stop to this , sooooooooooooooo, i tought the 2 teachers a lesson 4 descriminating!!! LOL I think all u muslim sisters should do the same, mind i'm a bad xample!!! LOL Don't put up with these horrible kafirs!!! There job is to do these sort of things!!! [wlm] |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/24/01 at 20:34:46 |
| slm Do you know about the Muslim clinic out here in California called "Ummah Clinic" (I think that's what they called it). A lot of Muslim doctors from the community volunteer their time their and try to help out the community. Its open to all, and is a means for dawah. I wonder if other places will start something like this? ??? [quote] PS: Oh yeah bhaloo, they are not all bad down there, and if you ever visited Albany and were attacked by an angry cow or one of the Albany mafia, I would suggest you go there before any other place (actually you would have to go there). Because we have an awesome trauma surgeon brother who spent years treating the mujahideen during the war in Afghanistan. Just something for you to know if you ever visit here, and, how shall I say, have an unfortunate "accident" :) [/quote] |
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| se7en |
| 04/24/01 at 20:53:50 |
| as salaamu alaykum chica, awww... The Prophet said: “If a servant of Allah is afflicted with a misfortune and says, ‘Verily we belong to Allah and truly to Him shall we return. O Allah! Protect me in this difficulty that has befallen me and replace it with something better,’ Allah will accept his prayer, grant him reward for his affliction, and replace it with something better.” And remember this class: trials and difficulties of life ...and he divided them into two kinds, the first being the trials we face when struggling to obey Allah, and the second being the trials that are there in general. So the challenge in the first one he says, we should look at it like this: Life is not meant to be the way everyone wants it to be. We, by the grace of Allah, have been given this ability to reason and consider the consequences of our actions. Life is full of difficulties especially for a mu'min, and as a mu'min we have to consider these consequences of our actions. He said it's like a jar of honey with a scorpion inside it spewing poison. From the outside it looks attractive and good, but it has certain bad consequences that we know of. And that in terms of akhira and in dunyaa knowing the consequences gives you endurance and sabr, and if you do that, if you struggle to face this challenge of ibadah to Allah, Allah will aid you. InnaAllah ma'as sabireen - indeed Allah is with those who have sabr. The second type is the general trials of this life, like pain, illnesses, suffering, depression, people that hurt you, bad things that happen to you that are just, you know, the difficulties that are inherent in life. These are the things that make life ugly, he said. But life is meant to be this way, life is not meant to be without problems. And he said we shouldn't look at it in terms of if it hurts its bad, and if it brings pleasure its good. We should look at it as whether it aids me or hinders me from entering Jannah, and that's what's good and bad. But the way he explained this was so beautiful. I mean most of the time, when people talk about these things, it's someting negative and pessimestic, like yeah, this life is nothing but difficulty and tribulation, and it just puts you in this depressed state. But br Mokhtar said, Life is good. It's good because it helps us fulfill ubudiyyah to Allah. Life is something good though it has difficulties. He also said that the problems and difficulties in this world help us appreciate Jannah all the more. It gives us incentive to work for the Home of Ultimate Peace. The life of this world leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and a desire for a place that does not have the difficulties and tribulations this one has, so it's another incentive to seek ibadah. It's a rahmaa from Allah, he says, that we must work hard for it and it aids us in striving for something more and better. He said "Like a foreign country filled with terror, you desire for home." wasalaam. (ps - dhikr read beauty of the righteous #18, it'll help, seriously. :)) |
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| se7en |
| 04/24/01 at 21:58:48 |
| [quote]Do you know about the Muslim clinic out here in California called "Ummah Clinic" (I think that's what they called it). A lot of Muslim doctors from the community volunteer their time their and try to help out the community. Its open to all, and is a means for dawah. I wonder if other places will start something like this? [/quote] Yeah, I've heard of it, I'm actually on their mailing list. :) (and on MSA-UCLA, I steal a lot of ideas from them :)) MashaAllah, it seems like there are many dedicated people who spend a lot of time and energy on the ummah free clinic. May Allah reward them for their efforts! In this area, a sister (sr. massarat chaudhry) is trying to get a Muslim Family Services started. I think also a SHS, a sisters helping sisters type-thing is going to be set up as well. :) I know detroit has a kicking MFS run by Dr Ali Suleiman Ali that includes marriage counseling, shelters for abused women and children, etc. It'd be interesting to hear if any other communities are starting much-needed projects like these in their areas... wasalaamu alaykum. ps - sr massarat was on the radio show today :) |
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| jehad |
| 04/25/01 at 06:34:43 |
asalm walakum, my friends sisters is at med school, all cloths that are taken in to surgery are sterilised together. cause they do it in bulk, people can only wear their clothing, she covers her awrah by using the overall as a hijab, it works but looks stupid, so even though there are a lot of people who call them selves muslimahs in her class, she is the only one who keeps hijab on where ever unrelated men can see parts that must be kept hidden. the main problem arises with washing, they need to wash up to the elbows and in some places women and men shear the same washing areas, so she cant attend those classes for obvious reasons, and get rubbish marks on those modules. there are plenty of Muslim women training to be doctors, the reason why they are not willing to make provision for them is, so many of them are willing to compromise their religion, so the med schools feel there is no need for provision, cause Muslims don’t care about jahannum. |
| TrailBlazing |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 04/25/01 at 08:51:27 |
| Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem Dearest and most Beloved Brothers & Sisters, Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah. I just wished to write some words of encouragement to our dear Sister Dhikr (Razia), and though I don’t presume you might lose heart by such an experience – for if our Sisters are anything, they are strong, firm and resolute in the midst of their tests/trials – and wanted for you to know a true success story in the making, of one who is also walking a similar path. Never let them get you down, for your aim is not their aim, and you walk a road that they are blind to seeing. You possess an honour by virtue, which they can only acquire by earning. You, in being what you are, have a maqam [station] that they can only aspire to, if but they knew who the Assigner of such stations is, but will never reach until they tread the journey you are upon. What you are already is more than they can ever hope to be, unless they apply for the passport to cognisance of the true matters of meaning in this world and all that it contains for the seeker of salvation. La ilaha ilallah! So let not the one who knows not, be a reason for your misery (and that is not to say you would). I know a Sister who is on her way to being a surgeon, bi’ithnillah ta’ala. She is in the Operating Theatre daily, wears full hijab (i.e. khimar and jilbab), and has *never* once been prevented from operating, or assisting. In fact she is outstanding and due to her unparalleled excellence in the eyes of her consultants, many accomodations (NB: not compromises with respect to health, safety and sterilisation, etc.) are made for her. She does admit that she feels she looks stupid in Theatre, but it bothers her not one jot, since she is fulfilling the command of her Lord (awj), and *maybe* - wallahu a’lam - it is because of this that such doors have never been closed to her with respect to her career. In other words, wearing the hijab has never meant she couldn’t do what she wanted to, and she has – alhamdulillah – had the fortune of working with some of the most exceptional (i.e. pioneering) cardiovascular/orthopaedic surgeons in the world. In fact, her manifest practice of her Deen, and her adamant refusal to compromise any part of it, has resulted in her peers admiring her principled stands, and all of them without exception admire her, respect her, and are in awe of her. Her references are testimony to their regard for her, alhamdulillah. She is a true example to any Sister who doubts what can be achieved in this field due to how they may be perceived because of their hijab, for she has done it, and is doing it, and let no one stand in her way en route. Discrimination never had a leg to stand on when confronted by her utter brilliance. That is not to say she never encountered questions, but alhamdulillah, the Muslim is the one who is sharp, and her answers were never less than spot on, in reply to those non-Muslims in charge of her, who due to their unfamiliarity with Islam, and the Muslim woman, understandably had/have questions sometimes. She never shyed from responding, always maintained her adab, overcame them by her consumate Islamic character, and her conduct in terms of professionalism is unblemished to this day, so rather than make life hard for her, they go out of their way to make sure she can become all that she wishes to, in her chosen career. Even if they might not agree with the Deen. This is the power of the Muslim woman – bi’tihnillah ta’ala - that Allah ta’ala has endowed her with. The potential is within her, and she can be all that, and more. Let no one tell you otherwise my beloved Sisters in Islam. Don’t get me wrong, she didn’t have it easy, but by the tawfeeq that Allah (swt) granted her – for which she ALWAYS reciprocated by her shukr [gratitude] to Him (awj), and continued/continues to make du’a for – she has managed to blaze a trail that even those Sisters alongside her have had to marvel at, masha’Allah. However, sometimes there is a hikmah [wisdom] and ishara [indication] in such obstacles, and we need to develop ourselves so that what we want collides for what is wanted for us by the One (awj) who knows what is best for us. And is this not often amongst the most hardest of that which needs to be known and reconciled with the self? What Allah (swt) wants for His (awj) slave, no wom/man can be a barrier to. And likewise with what He (awj) does not want. It is but for us to know it. Peace and blessings upon our Beloved Messenger (saw), his (saw) Family (raa), Companions (raa), and those who follow in their rightly-guided footsteps. Abu Khaled |
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| Arsalan |
| 04/25/01 at 09:13:11 |
| [slm] Welcome back Abu Khaled :) :) :) |
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| muhannad |
| 04/25/01 at 16:58:25 |
| [quote] This issue of Sikhs in the OR really makes me think, because I have never seen one in the OR [/quote] I know one guy, so i will ask him next time i see him |
| Re: "props" |
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| Iranna326 |
| 04/25/01 at 18:47:20 |
| thanks for the insight all... i know they were just trying to protect the patient...but the problem is they're just really mean about it. (they were mean to me too) they don't want to get sued for infecting someone but they're asking for it by disrespecting my friend. this is just a good opportunity to make preparations for others with "needs", eventually the minority becomes the majority...u know what i mean? |
| the story |
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| dhikr |
| 04/29/01 at 14:07:20 |
| slm i apologize for taking so much time to reply to this with the story, but i had to think things thru and cool off a bit, Health explorations is a program in which 18 interested students are chosen from the senior class to go on different rotations at diff depts at Albany Medical Center, VA hosptal, CDPC(psych center) etc. im attaching a paper im going to hand in to my teachers about this incident. and it explains it all. let me know what you guys think, and how i should change it if needed. jazakallahu khair, may Allah reward u . please keep me in your duas. (ps please be kind, im like putting a majority of my whole life online for the whole world to see:)) Tuesday was one of the most difficult experiences of my life. I, Razia have dreamed about becoming a doctor ever since I was 6 years old (and I’m not being sarcastic either). Everything else about my life was not set, not sure of. But this fact was the thing I was most sure of than anything else. That was my comfort, knowing that whatever happens, anything can happen, but I’m always going to be a doctor and nothing can change that. But as of now I’m so sure anymore. I joined the health explorations program because of not only my dream, but because I would get to experience and see things that I would never be able to see otherwise. I told everyone I knew about this program, with such excitement. When I came in as a freshman at Albany High School, I knew I wanted to be in this program. I catered my classes so it would comply with the program. I would tell people,” where else would I have the opportunity to see a heart bypass or something?” This day was supposed to be the biggest day in the health ex program, well at least to me anyway. OR day is the epitome, the highlight of the program. The rotations usually suck so much, but it would all be worth it for the one OR day. I approached this day with such excitement, you would even know. The whole week before I told everyone I knew over and over again to the point where they somewhat got annoyed. I was as excited as a child going to Disney world. On Tuesday, April 24, 2001,i woke up a half hour earlier than I usually do, to get ready for the day. I didn’t wear any jewelry because I didn’t think they people at the OR would like it. I wore shoes instead of sandals. I ate breakfast even thought I normally don’t. I packed a healthy lunch. I wore clothes that I could easily change out of. I honestly believed that I was more excited to go on my OR rotation than anyone else in class. I asked advice from people who had already been there, so I could be more prepared, and gain more out of my experience. I came to school that day got my materials ready and head out for the OR. I walked in, told the lady at the desk who I was. She acted very distant, but I was ok with that. She told me to get the locker combo and I did. Then she gave me her swiper and I went upstairs to get my scrubs and got changed. As a Muslim, I’m not allowed to uncover anything other than my face, hands, and feet. So since the scrubs are half-sleeves, I kept my shirt on and went back down the stairs to ask for one of those paper jackets. When I got down there, I went to the secretary lady and asked her for one. She called someone to get me one. As I was waiting, the scrub nurse (name: Austin something) came out and practically started screaming at me, like I’m a dog or something. “ You can’t wear that shirt here! Street clothes are not allowed! They’re not sterile, blah, blah, contamination, blah, blah, You need to go and take that shirt off and (pointing to her head) and you need to go an take that off your head! Blah, blah, and put the cap on! “ Then immediately after, I asked, “ can’t I just wear the cap on top of my scarf?” She continued to scream at me telling me that there’s no way to protect from the scarf and whatnot. She gave me no time to actually say something and immediately walked out. All the while, the secretary who was watching asked me, “that’s for your religion isn’t it? (Pointing to my scarf). I replied, “ yes”. She started questioning me, “why didn’t you tell her that?, don’t be intimidated by her, go in and tell her that.” So I went into her office and explained to her that my head covering was because of my religion and that I’m not allowed to take it off in public places like that. It seemed as if this explanation affected her in anyway, and she acted the same way. She replied,” well it’s not sterile and it’ll contaminate. Blah, blah, so I don’t know what you want to do.” So I walked out of her office, paged Mrs. O (my teahcer), but I don’t think I did the page correctly. So I went back upstairs, changed out of my scrubs and came down, told the secretary that I’m going back to my teacher to see what she wants me to do. On the way back to the classroom, I kept telling myself not to cry because it would look unprofessional. But I still had hope, there must be something that I could have done. I thought that id talk to Mrs. O and maybe she would have some ideas, however, I guess that wasn’t the case. When I called Mrs. O, she said “ I guess you cant go to the OR, I’m sorry.” It was ok, it wasn’t her fault. There probably wasn’t anything that could have been done for me. I also understood that, that day was also stressful for her as her daughter’s surgery was that day as well. She said that I could go to the library. However I was not in any mood to go the library, or deal with anyone.So I started walking home. I knew the walk was about an hour, but I needed some air. I was so pissed. I wanted to drop kick that lady so badly. I cried the way home, but I thought people would be home so, I had to look presentable when I got home, no one could know I was crying. Luckily to my advantage, no one was home. I started sobbing when I got home. My experience hurt so much. It just wasn’t fair. I wanted to march back down there, and beat her. But I couldn’t do that or anything to dishonor the reputation of the health exploration program. That was the main reason why I didn’t yell back at the lady in the OR. Believe me, I really wanted to give her a piece of my mind! But I had to keep my cool. I kept trying to assess the situation, but I needed to let out some steam really badly. So I took the keys to my car, even thought I don’t have my license, I needed to go for a ride. I drove around for a bit, picked up some food and a movie. Hopefully that would make me feel better after one of the worst experiences of my life. I got home, sat down, so depressed, with this feeling to helplessness and confusion. I didn’t know where I stood in the situation. All I could keep thinking about was the lady screaming at me and how I was feeling when she did. As I sat there I kept thinking about how it’s not going to end from here. With such excitement, I had told my whole family, all my friends, and practically everyone I knew that I was going to the OR to observe. I knew all of them would soon ask me how things went. And each time I explained, I would have to go through that horrible experience in my head, over and over again. It would end from here. It seemed like within a matter of hours, my life had turned into this big nightmare. Now the question leads to how I feel about this situation. Honestly I’m not, and I don’t have the right to say that it was all because of religious discrimination. But a number of things came to my mind. Why didn’t the lady even make the slightest efforts to make accommodations for me. She took no interest in doing that, none whatsoever. She didn’t care about me at all. All she was concerned about was her cocky self. I understood that she had a job to do, the nurses are so busy, and might not have time for us. They have so many things to do and guidelines to follow. But that still gives her no reason to treat me like less that a human being. I understood their guidelines needed to be followed, universal precautions etc. But again, that didn’t give her any right to be so mean to me. The least she could have done was been a little nice to me through rejecting me. I would have appreciated it. For this, I have reason to believe that I was treated this way because I am a Muslim, and she was uncomfortable with me. I would guess that she hasn’t come in contact with any practicing female Muslim doctors who cover as well. She probably felt threatened by me, or in worse case, that I would blow up the building because of the stereotypical “so called Muslim” terrorists. That same day after school, just when I was starting to feel better, the phone rang at home. It was a good friend who asked what had happened and if I was ok. Apparently iranna posted the event on the Internet in a popular message board at jannah.org. I talked to a Muslim apart of Albany med. and asked about the gear used in the OR. He explained to me how there is a type of head covering you see “similar to that of a diver wearing a wetsuit wears. It covers the ears, head and only shows the face. That could have been put on tightly and one could have always put on other hospital masks/head covers and fulfilled the hijab (Arabic word for scarf) requirement. As long as you are using all hospital garments and masks/head covers, there is nothing that can be called into question. In fact some of the male surgeons down there wear that hijab-type head covering. So basically, if the nurse really cared, she could have made some kind of accommodations for me. But obviously she didn’t. There are a number of things that can be done as of now. This resident as well as many other Muslims , and even non-Muslims, are willing to help me whatever plan of action I choose to take. Personally I don’t wish to make this a big deal, but if its necessary I will. I wont sit back and let people take advantage of me. Ideally if it were possible, I would like to have another chance at the OR in the free week in June. If this different type of gear is available, I would like to go the OR one day before my rotation there, and make arrangements with the nurse there and make sure everyone knows what I’m doing. This way, if I could get another chance to go, everything would already be set up for me, so that I wont have any problems and there wont be any surprises. If that’s not possible I am going to complain at patient rep and find out what they can do for me and where I stand in this whole situation. My intention is not to get back at anyone, rather to make them aware of things. This way, they will realize I’m not going to sit back and take garbage from other people just because of my religion. They will understand that we are a increasing community in this country and arrangements need to be made. As long as this brings some kind of awareness to the OR or AMC in general about Islam, then its all been worth it. Even if they just apologize, its fine with me. I’m willing to write an article to the paper whether it be the AMC paper or the Times Union. One point I forgot to mention is that there are Muslim surgeons who do wear headcovers. What do they do? They don’t just take their scarves off. I also remember that I had gone to the OR through the Biomed rotation with my scarf on. I also observed the pacemaker procedure in Cardiac Cath at the VA. What’s the difference if part of my neck is showing versus a little strip of my scarf is showing? Who cares? If they want to sterilize my scarf, I’m fine with that as well. I’m willing to looks stupid and just cover myself with any material or cloth they provide me with, as long as I cover my head, and neck. I’m even willing to wrap a bunny suit around myself. On a side note its interesting how health explorations is a public school program, yet a Muslim female will automatically not be able to experience the things that other students do purely because of their faith. I remember how Mrs. O always talks about changing the program around here and there in hopes of one day making it perfect. This right here, is a big problem and unless its addressed somehow, it will never even come close to the shadow of perfection. I wanted to go to the OR as much as Adam (a student in my class) loves the ER. However I couldn’t... because I proudly follow my beliefs, my faith, my religion, the same religion that 1.7 billion people follow around the world as well. the end wlm ps. i was at a rotation at patient rep, so they know me and they like me . hehe:) |
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| se7en |
| 04/28/01 at 23:40:00 |
| dhikr I love you so much chica :) You're my hero :) |
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| jannah |
| 04/29/01 at 00:06:59 |
| razia that sux so much.. the title of this thread definitely is true to your story... i think alot of it seems to be ignorance on their part. inshaAllah this experience can be used to help educate them and then they won't treat you or any other muslim woman who walks in their from doctor to nurse to patient the same way. just keep your cool, keep it polite and know your rights. i think of ourselves as pioneers. we have to pave the way for the others that come after us. i hope that me and saleem and the other ppl older than you in this community have done a little at albany high with the teachers to make it a better place for muslims. the same at suny albany.. the msa we started 7 years ago (and made you guys go to even then :)) was not only for us but for you guys one day. so even though you're going through alot of hardship right now it will seriously have benefits in the future. you and others around you will know that people just have to make accomodations for muslim women. we are not going to be held back anymore. a few years from now another girl may enter that same program at albany med like fareeha and yasmin and they aren't going to do the same thing to them. i hope that all the ppl i taught at work will go back to their companies and when they one day see a hijabi walking down the hall they will just smile and nod because they had one for a teacher once. we are the pioneers, if we don't fight or struggle it will be twice as hard for the girls that come after us, but if we do then for them it will be twice as easy insha'Allah. so we will make dua for you inshallah! [wlm] |
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| muhannad |
| 04/30/01 at 16:26:28 |
| I asked the sikh guy I know what he did in theatre. He told me he wore this cap and headcover type thing in theatre. One of our bros spoke to the theatre nurse and she said she will contact their suppliers and try and get big masks for us. was-salam |
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| Adi28 |
| 05/01/01 at 09:09:07 |
| Salaams Razia im so sorry that happend to you i've been to albany med and i know what you mean you say that the people are cold and distant..it is not nice place and i respect to soo much for having so much dignity and not yelling at that lady because i know if it was me...their would definately be a "comotion" going and thats the nice way of putting it. But anyways im sure allah will give you another chance at going into the or...becuase you know everything happens for a reason ok well talk to you soon salaam Love, Adilah |
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| dhikr |
| 05/10/01 at 23:46:59 |
| [slm] well basically heres what happened, i sorta editted the letter and gave it to both my teachers, i guess one read it rite away and gave me a reaction rite away she said somethign to the extent" i read ur paper, and i was very upset at what happened. but dont write a letter to the paper. im going to have a meeting with the or ppl. theyre at the tip of kicking us out. last year the or rotation was two weeks and this year they knocked it down to 1 day. the lady in charge there is liek that.but dont write a letter, i know u dont want to ruin it for students in the future.blah blah.... but ill have a meeting with them soon." the other teacher (btw shes jewish) wrote bak on my paper itself and heres wat it said: "please be judicious- overreacting could cost us this whole program. their way of dealing with bad PR will be just to cancel us. as a minority , i have found that i must accomodate myself to the majority-they rarely accomodate me." however whats cool is that this week i was at maternity and i was able to see a C section. it was awesome subhanallah. it took like 10 minutes, it was amazing, i mean first ur standing there and u see this woman , and yeh she has a big tummy, but soon u see this other human being just coming out, its sooo cool, the baby was cute, tho covered in this white stuff and blood , but they cleaned him up. theyre going to try to arrange for me to see a normal birth as well. how cool is that? i wore a bunnysuit rite on top of my clothing and i wore the cap thingy rite on top of my hijab, and the ppl at maternity were very nice to me,they let u just play with the babies and all, i saw a circumsision today as well. however abt the or thing, i think theyre very scared that im going to complain and make them look bad that they mite arrange another day for me to go, but i didnt appreciate how they put "the program" before a students feelings or even rights. [wlm] |
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| jannah |
| 05/10/01 at 23:48:29 |
| wlm, razia that's a bunch of crap. if their program is in jeopardy it's their problem. they shouldn't have a program if *all* the students can't have their fair share of rights. if you ask me that is a timeless way of putting a guilt trip on someone and shutting them up. |
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| Saleema |
| 05/11/01 at 00:29:57 |
| however abt the or thing, i think theyre very scared that im going to complain and make them look bad that they mite arrange another day for me to go, but i didnt appreciate how they put "the program" before a students feelings or even rights. So what did your teacher compromise about? anyway, make them look bad. Because what they did was bad. Please. Razia dear, don't let them play with your feelings like that. Obviously you are too nice. :) I would have written to the newspaper. If they don't accomodate you then write to the newspaper. Contact cair, contact your non-muslims civil rights orgs in new york also. they will learn their lesson inshallah. Trust me. [wlm] Saleema |
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| Mona |
| 10/24/01 at 07:32:57 |
| Assalamu alaikum, There was an [url=http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1003701700329&call_page=TS_Education&call_pageid=968867496752&call_pagepath=GTA/Education] article[/url] in yesterday's Toronto Star that reminded me of this thread. Kinda of interesting really. wassalam -- if the link does not work, go to [url]www.thestar.com[/url] and search for "hair loss" here is the text of the article: [color=black]October 22, 2001 School admits error over head covering Student told to remove scarf worn due to medical condition Catherine Porter STAFF REPORTER SIMON WILSON FOR THE TORONTO STAR A nursing student who was told she'd have to get rid of the headscarf she wears for medical reasons will instead receive an apology from the school's dean. Three weeks after Bonnie Bettridge was told by her one of her teachers to remove her headscarf because it was unhygienic and against the school's dress code, the dean has declared she can wear it. "It was very unfortunate. We made it clear that it is not an issue for the school. She can certainly wear the turban," said Bill Jeffrey, the dean of the school of health sciences and community services at Kitchener's Conestoga College. "We will deal with the teacher. I will definitely see the student, and I will definitely make apologies. This simply should not have happened." Bettridge was diagnosed 10 years ago with alopecia areata, a non-life-threatening disease that causes hair-loss. Within three weeks, she had lost all the hair on her body. She tried wigs but found them uncomfortable and awkward. Her solution was to wear a piece of fabric wound high around her head, like an African headdress. "This is my life. I wear it all the time. It's a very private thing, in that it is very meaningful to me ... I'm proud of who I am and they were making it seem I shouldn't be," Bettridge said from her Guelph home. The ordeal, she said, has brought her to tears many times and made her think about leaving the school. It started on Sept. 25, when the 27-year-old nursing student was pulled aside after one of her first-year classes and told by a teacher that the headscarf was not appropriate for clinical practice. She was told it wasn't clean, it might scare patients and it made her stand out from other classmates, Bettridge said, adding she was told to write a letter explaining why she should be allowed to wear it. Last week, she met with the school's head of nursing and was instructed to wear a small white kerchief instead of her headscarf. "I never thought it would be a problem. It took me right off guard. It's not like I thought I didn't look different. I was just more astonished. These people are dealing with people and are teaching us about cultural sensitivity," Bettridge said. "I'm sorry I don't fit into the cubbyhole of what they think is diversity. "To me, diversity includes everyone. So I asked them, how do you define discrimination?" Jeffrey said he had already discussed the issue with the school's director of nursing and he plans to talk to the teacher about it. But neither will be reprimanded because they "didn't violate any school policy." While the school does have a dress code, it is generic and doesn't address issues arising from religious traditions or medical conditions. In the wake of the confrontation with Bettridge, the school will update its policy now, Jeffrey said. "Obviously, like any other program, we have a lot more multicultural students now. I expect in the future we'll need to deal with headdresses and other things associated with religious beliefs," he said. On hearing of the apology, Bettridge said she was relieved and no longer planned to lodge a human rights complaint against the school. "I've finally got somebody actually being supportive," she said. "I just want to go back to school." © 2001 - The Toronto Star |
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