widespread disrespect!

Madina Archives


Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

widespread disrespect!
Nazia
04/30/01 at 14:29:27
Assalamu Alaikum,

Yesterday, I gave my sunday school class their final exam.  The age group of my students is broad, about 12-17.  (They didn't have enough teachers for the older students, so they put them in my class-and we had to cover the same book that these older girls covered last year).  Anyhow, you may be thinking that its unfair that these older girls are stuck learning the same things they [i]supposedly[/i] learned last year.  Well...none of them remembered *one* thing, so it's all good. Anyhow, the book we covered was Khalifa-ar-Rashidun, upper elementary level. *sigh*  I thought this book would be a joke, I figured we could finish it in a matter of weeks, and perhaps move on to the next level. This didn't happen.  So as I was saying, yesterday I gave my kids their final.  From the second I walked into the door it was COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN out of almost everyone's mouth! :(  "The test is ESSAY?? I hate essay!" "Its on the whole book?? I hate tests on the whole book"  "Its hot in here"  "It smells in the other room"  "I didn't have time to study" "Can you do a review?"  "No, don't do a review--just give us the test" and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...It was absolutely, incredibly annoying!  Finally I held up the book to them and read-- "Khalifa ar-Rashidun, Upper Elementary Level"  And I said, I don't want to hear another complaint because this book is designed for fifth graders, and if you can't answer my questions then it is indeed a sad sad situation.

*momentary silence*

Under someone's breath:  "Don't worry about it...its just sunday school, who cares"

another mutter:  "I can't believe theres nine short answer questions.."

I had designed the test to take them all atleast an hour to complete.  It consisted of nine short answer questions and five identifications.  Some girls wrote in marker, and turned their paper in after about 20 minutes, obviously not taking ANYTHING I did seriously.  After a few of the girls finished, they started talking, laughing, and making noise while other girls were still testing.  I asked them repeatedly to be quiet, and so they asked if they could go sit in one of the other classrooms.  I said NO. (Because they would just go in there and talk about nsync and backstreet boys, something I did not want to encourage) I said it wouldn't kill them to sit quietly until everyone finished (apparently, they didn't want to take the chance) Anyways, they thought my decision was soo unfair, and immediately it became an eye-rolling fest.  By this time, I was absolutely DISGUSTED.  What is WRONG with these kids?!?!  They have NO respect for ANY type of rules!  My BIGGEST BIGGEST goal for this year was to instill inside of them a deep love for Islam.  I picked passionate topics, ones they could relate to.  We talked about the differences between Islam and other religions, and that seemed to spawn some type of pride.  When they wanted open discussion, I gave them open discussion, when they wanted a specific topic, I tried to give it to them.  But, now I just have this dirty feeling in my mouth.  As if these girls have learned nothing.  They have *no* idea what they are missing, and its mainly my fault.  We were talking one day about how Abu Bakr (RA) and Uthman (RA) played major roles in the compilation, and distribution of the Quran, and one girl actually said, "Well, they didn't do a very good job"  ):(  WHAT?!  How are you going to disrespect the Khalifas like that???  

It seems like all my students do is complain!  They have NO respect for the subject matter MUCH LESS their teachers.  My blood was boiling yesterday.  Its one thing to dislike me, its a WHOLE other thing to diss the idea of sunday school thereby dissing Islam.  I was so frustrated with them yesterday.  Anyways, here's my theory, let me know what you think. :)
Warning:  Severe dissing of western non-Muslim culture lies ahead, proceed with caution.

This society is SO tolerant of youth!  I mean, parents (non-Muslims mainly) practically kiss their childrens butts!  "What, my 12 yr old cheated on the exam?  Its because your test was too hard"  "Excuse me, my 14 yr old killed your son? well your son *did* make fun of his glasses" "Kids are going to do drugs anyways, lets hand out clean needles so that they don't infect themselves with HIV"  "High school kids are going to sleep around anyways, lets hand out various types of birth control and have abortion clinics at every corner."  "You give my son too much homework, he only has time to watch 3 hrs of tv a day"

You get the point... what child wants...child gets.  Unfortunately, even though, I KNOW, most Muslim parents are stricter on their children then this...the idea of the "all-knowing child" has penetrated into the minds of these impressionable youth.  So now even Muslim kids, kids whose parents try their best to teach them about Islam, have this idea in their heads that they know everything.  Well, I am definitely not going to stand around and feed their exponentially growing egos one bit.  It makes me sick!  I wanted to throw up listening to these girls yesterday!  HOW did they get this far in life without having their school teachers BEAT them!? (hehe ok jk about that one)  But seriously, why are we, as a society in general, so tolerant?  and HOW HOW HOW do we bring these kids down to their level and show them that they're not as amazing and all-knowing as they think they are???

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

btw--this was not an attack on all youth, just an observation of atrocious trend in today's messed up society.

Oh one more piece of angst!  I have close to 20 students, and a couple of weeks ago I asked them who won the Gulf War.

Their answer?

*silence*

What's going on in Iraq?

*silence*

What was the holocaust?

They all knew...

I was so disappointed.  I mean, I'm glad they know about the holocaust and all, but saddened by the fact they nothing about their own brothers and sisters.

So I gave them an exercise.  I told them a little about the situation in Iraq, and as their homework assignment, I told them to find an article on the AMC web site explaining the situation and making them write a letter to our congressman urging him to do something about the crisis.  That worked out kind of cool.

Anyways, if you have any idea how to deal with this..I'd like to hear your ideas...sorry this thread is so long.  The freqency and lengths of my post are usually directlly proportional to the number of exams I have. :)

Take Care,
Wassalamu Alaikum,
Nazia

Re: widespread disrespect!
Saleema
04/30/01 at 14:35:22
[slm]

Nazia--- my year ended on a bad note too.  :(

I feel the same as you.   :(

I wonder if i will teach next year.

[wlm]

Saleema
Re: widespread disrespect!
Rashid
04/30/01 at 17:13:53
[slm]

I'm sorry to hear about all this.  I remember when I went to sunday school years ago and it was the same thing.  As a new muslim, I was trying to learn as much as possible, and of course the kids are talking, gossiping, etc, when the teacher is trying to teach.  But some of these kids were related to the principal, so they were above the law.

I have to agree 100 % on the glorification of the youth in society.  I've seen elementary age kids, curse and hit their parents in public!  and the parents don't say a thing! ):( They try to justify everything like "oh, kids go through a Freudian psychological development stage" so that since an early age, they're not taught to take responsibility for their own actions but to shrug it off as a "phase" So by the time they're 15, 16, it's too late.  I'm definetely one for discipline.  All I know is that if I would've pulled a stunt like curse at or try to hit my parents, I probably wouldn't be here today :) I mean the mother is the child's first teacher.  If the mother doesn't teach her children basic common courtesy, respect for teachers and elders, and manners, then it doesn't matter how many sunday schools they go to.  A lot of parents just drop their kids off at the school and expect a couple of hours to counter the effects of 5 days of public school, then to top it all off, the parents don't even practice Islam.  This is where comments like "it's only sunday school" come from.  

I suggest having a meeting with all the parents and inform them of the unacceptable behavior.  May Allah make it easier for you next time around.

[wlm]  
Re: widespread disrespect!
BrKhalid
05/01/01 at 10:06:58
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

Yep I think the thread title sums it up pretty nicely.


I'm not sure where it went but children don't seem to have any respect for their teachers.

Where are the days when you were told by your parents that you had to listen to everything your teacher said and had to behave in class?


Its tough because our teachers are doing their level best to develop our children but in some cases are getting absolutely no assistance from the parents!!!!


[quote]But seriously, why are we, as a society in general, so tolerant?[/quote]

May be it has something to do with the idea that in some way we've "progressed" and traditional values and methods of raising children are no longer relevant?


[quote]HOW HOW HOW do we bring these kids down to their level and show them that they're not as amazing and all-knowing as they think they are???[/quote]

May be a bit simplistic but lets try and prevent these kids from becoming like this in the first place?

Is there an argument that some children are just too downright spoilt?

Re: widespread disrespect!
chachi
04/30/01 at 18:05:31

  Hmm the teaching methodology changed..it used to be the teacher is always right...until people found that Aristotle and others were wrong ..then it became don't assume anything is right until it can be proved by data and now since the data itself can give contradictory answers even in science it's Nobody is right...

  Ultimately it all boils down to causation if you believe that everything is cause and effect you end up with problems...lets see how many people can understand what i'm saying here
Re: widespread disrespect!
meraj
04/30/01 at 19:00:14
slm,

[quote]If the mother doesn't teach her children basic common courtesy, respect for teachers and elders, and manners, then it doesn't matter how many sunday schools they go to.  A lot of parents just drop their kids off at the school and expect a couple of hours to counter the effects of 5 days of public school, then to top it all off, the parents don't even practice Islam.  This is where comments like "it's only sunday school" come from.  [/quote]

yeah what br rashid said.. thats sooo true... if parents dont make the effort to educate their kids the other 6 1/2 daus of the week, then theres little or no benefit to sending them to sunday school.

sr nazia make duaa for them and just do your best.. inshallah its a struggle for the right cause and inshalah we'll make duaa for ya too.
Re: widespread disrespect!
Anik
05/01/01 at 00:28:51
asalaamu alaikum,

yeah this generation is the generation of equality

whatever you do, whoever yo are,

nobody deserves more respect (even parents,teachers, or elders) unless the whole society idolizes them (this is Western culture here)

reading all these responses made me feel like I can be better to my parents even thoughth esunday school days are gone.

but don't give up all you teachers...

giving up just lets the bad stuff climb over you

help make Islam the winner amongst the community (and it will be as Allah has said, victorious in all of existence)



i've sen bad classroom sitaution,
one way to deal with them is to just be tough

tell their parents what you think

if it's right, ppl who ignore it WILL BE HURT.

Being told your wrong doesn't always feel good- that motivates you not to do wrong again

seriously, my one piece of advice that is most important:

THEY RULE THEIR PARENTS, THAT'S TOO BAD, ASTAGH'FERLAH, BUT DON'T

DON'T LET THEM RULE YOU.

stuff it in parents' faces (justly though)

ask the class why they are here, if anyone wants to leave and offer students a ticket out.

sometimes the reverse works as well. just trying to help and i hope it does. asalaamu alaikum, thanks for making me think about my own actions as well. anik,.
Re: widespread disrespect!
nehar
05/01/01 at 07:12:38
[slm]

i used 2 go 2 a weekend school when i was younger and was very rebelious.  at the time it was kool  8-), but i look back and regret not wanting 2 learn :-(.

I think as kids we dont understand y we r doing them, we just do themm coz we r told 2.

I look back now and wish i cud b back 2 al-hidayah school and am very grateful 2 the aunties and uncles who taught me and put up with me.I learnt my basics of islam there, if not unwillingly, indirectly.

I think i wud like 2 go back and teach sum day inshallah :-).My advise 2 all teachers is dont give up, inshallah, 1 day very soon, ur students will realise their mistakes and b grateful 4 all ur efforts.  Teaching is a demanding job although very rewarding job :-), dont give up cuz the next generation will be affected and influenced by what we teach and do. It is therefore essential for us to start working now and build on the foundations of the future generations.;)

If we turn a blind eye 2 the younger generation our younger brothers and sisters will b left behind in islamic eduation. it is therefore important that we plant the seeds of love for Islam in the hearts of the younger generation.


Abu Huraira , reported that the Prophet [saw] said:
“All children are born Muslims. It is the parents who make Christians and Jews out of them.”


Just make dua that Allah guides us all 2 the straight path and plz b patient as u will b rewarded, DONT GIVE UP!!!:)THE NEXT GENERATION DEPEND ON U!!!

[wlm]

Nehar
Re: widespread disrespect!
Kathy
05/01/01 at 08:49:13
slm

I understand the irritation in Nazia and Saleema's post, I have seen this too.

[quote]"Warning: Severe dissing of western non-Muslim culture lies ahead, proceed with caution."[/quote]

Yes it is true there are children who are unrully and disrecpectful in my culture. Most aren't. Most kids are good and want to please and learn. It is similar to the one bad apple in the cart, it seems to ruin the whole bunch. But it doesn't the others are still good- maybe with a blemish.

I have volunteered enough in classrooms to see what is up. Truely, there are only one or two in a class of twenty.

Please becareful with over generalizations.

My son is a well behaved kid. Always has been. Parenting is hard. It is easy to let them by and not discipline them. It is very hard to be a good parent.

When my husbands parents came over for the summer last year, my husband asked me not to discipline our son. He said his parents would be angry if I yelled or hit my son. He said it was cultural and I would give a bad image.

My golden child turned into a little monster. He was able to push the buttons, and put himself right into high gear. It was unbelievable. So this has nothing to do with the east or the west- but with the parents and their parenting.

At the mosque- pay attention to the kids. Compare the American kids with the other kids. At our masjid, mine is usually sitting quietly listening to the khutba, other kids are talking and giggling. After- who's kids are running around like crazy in the mosque and parking lot? Is it just the Paki's, the Arabs, the Aferican Americans. It is probably a mix.

What about the adult women- during the khutba- who is talking? Where do you think the kids learned that from- not the Western society but from their Eastern parents.

I am blaming the parents, the elders, not the kids. The other day the Imam's wife told me we should not yell at our kids in the mosque. Beleieve me if my kid is being bad, or another kid is "dissing the mosque" I think it is imperative that we stop them at once. Is it easy to turn our backs? Sure.

As a clarification point- when I say yell- I mean in a quiet- make my point way. When I say hit I mean a simple fanny swipe- or as one of my friends call it an attention getter or "attitude adjustment."






Re: widespread disrespect!
jannah
05/01/01 at 09:57:50
[quote]
So this has nothing to do with the east or the west- but with the parents and their parenting.
[/quote]

AGREE COMPLETELY!!! There is nothing worse than a lax parent that let's their kid do whatever they want. I know those kids in my class, because if I say to them "do you want me call your house to talk to your parents about this?" they say "who cares...my parents dont care either" and it's true.  And if you call them they are the parents that not only don't care but they will defend their child to the death for cheating on the test or missing alot of days of class!!

Then there are the parents that CALL you to ask you what their kid missed in the class. You can easily tell which kids have parents with good parenting skills and which one's don't.

Unfortunately I do see alot of parents who have just immigrated to the US or first generation parents who feel sorry for their children and want to "give them what they never had" and that includes being extremely loose, not disciplining them at all and letting them do what they want -- which is a nightmare when they get older as Nazia can testify to :(

The best style of parenting we learned about in psychology is the parent that is not on either extremes ie letting the kid do whatever they want.. or completely ruling every single action and being too strict... but rather being strict when necessary having certain limits and letting the kids go in other things.

Anyway interesting thread maybe the parents can give each other some good advice inshaAllah !!
Re: widespread disrespect!
Nazia
05/01/01 at 10:51:11
Assalamu Alaikum,

Sr. Kathy, you know I think you're the bomb (cool, awesome, etc..insert any hip phrase here)!  And I definitely think that a child's behavior is reflective on the parenting.  I guess the only reason I hesitated to state that explicitly in my first post is because I *know* these girls' parents.  They are the ones who are at the masjid EVERYDAY volunteering not only with sunday school, but with the regular school we have in the masjid as well.  These are kids of the Imam, and other prominent families in our communities.  Their mothers, some of them converts, are more passionate about Islam than most other people I meet, Alhamdulillah.  Now I know this is perhaps the exception rather than the rule, but somehow its true in my situation.  This is why I targeted the ideology of the non-Muslim society.  Its true that many kids are well-behaved, Alhamdulillah, and this *has* to be due to influence in the home, because society in general is very lenient of such standards.  When I say "non-Muslim" society, I am refering to general ideology outside the limits of Islam.  Yes, unfortunately this philosophy is VERY VERY prominent in Pakistan, India, and many other Eastern countries.  But this leniency, I believe, stems from the ideas of the west.  (it seems the whole world--besides maybe Afghanistan and a few other countries--is busy trying to imitate every aspect of western culture)  When kids are outside of the house, they are exposed to a vast array of *rubbish*  If a child mouths off to his teacher in school, whats his punishment?  Detention.  One hour after school where he sits and does homework.  WOOP DE FREAKIN DOO.  OF course he'll do it again, if he wants!  I guess all I was saying is that the spciety in general is very tolerant of disrespect.  Parents, Insha'Allah, are not, but nonetheless, I think many kids understand that there is a *lot* they can get away with.  And in response to other posts, I don't plan on giving up, but because I am moving away next year (insha'allah), I probably will not be teaching (except to train the next teahcer).  I actually had a lot of fun throughout the year, the girls were a handful, but at times they showed curiousity, even if it was negatively phrased.  (I've noticed that many kids seem to assume the worst about Islam to begin with and THEN, later lighten up)

Anyways, like I said in my first post, this is *not* an attack on all youth, its simply an observation made by a measly college student that might not even mean anything :)

I'm late to school...as usual! :)

Take Care,wassalam!
Nazia "one more final!" Abbas


Individual posts do not necessarily reflect the views of Jannah.org, Islam, or all Muslims. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster and may not be used without consent of the author.
The rest © Jannah.Org