Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?

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Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
Anonymous
05/04/01 at 10:38:33
Salam

I've always been tempted to try snails and frog legs. I've heard frogs legs
taste like fried chicken BUT I've never actually tasted them because its not easy
to get hold of a pair of legs  from your local halal butcher!

So my question is are frogs legs and snails halal if bought from say a 'french'
restaurant? Can they be treated like prawns etc or do they need to be cut and
blessed like other halal meat?

Aida
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jannah
05/04/01 at 10:42:59
anonymous great title you made the Madina news ! ;)
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/04/01 at 10:47:47
snails are hallal, don't know the ruling on frogs or whether or not they require zabhar.
i know the dead meat of the sea is hallal, so whales and dolphines dont require zabhar. not sure about frogs cause they can come out of water. ask a alim. one from france, they like weard food there.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
humble_muslim
05/04/01 at 11:35:46
AA

I ate frog legs when I was about 12.  Yes, it does taste like chicken.
Don't know if they are haram, since a frog is amphibious.
NS
Don't eat that Ribbit-ribbit!
bhaloo
05/04/01 at 11:38:19
slm

Please forgive me for my ignorance in this matter. I am very interested in learning the ways of Islam. My question concerns dietary rulings. What types of fish and seafood are permissible?
Thank you for your help.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Among the blessings that Allaah has bestowed upon us is the fact that He has made our religion easy for us, and has not made it too difficult or unbearable. He has allowed us many things that were forbidden according to previously-revealed laws. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… Allaah intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you…” [al-Baqarah 2:185].

Hence all kinds of food from the sea are permissible, whether they are plants or animals, alive or dead. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Lawful to you is (the pursuit of) water-game and its use for food – for the benefit of yourselves and those who travel…” [al-Maa’idah 5:96]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “ Sayduhu (lit. hunting, pursuit) refers to whatever is taken from it alive, and ta’aamuhu (lit. its food) means whatever is taken dead.”

There are a few things – certain types of water animals – which some scholars exclude from the permission outlined above. These are:

Crocodiles. The correct view is that eating these is not allowed, because they have fangs and live on land – even though they may spend a lot of time in the water – so precedence should be given to the reason for forbidding it (it is a land animal that has fangs).


Frogs. It is not permitted to eat them because the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade killing them, as is reported in the hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Uthmaan, who said that the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the killing of frogs. (Narrated by Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Maajah; see also Saheeh al-Jaami, 6970). The rule is that everything which we are forbidden to kill, we are not allowed to eat; if we are allowed to eat it we are allowed to kill it.


Some scholars exclude sea snakes, but the correct view is that as they live nowhere except in the water, we are permitted to eat them, because of the general nature of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Lawful to you is (the pursuit of) water-game and its use for food – for the benefit of yourselves …” [al-Maa’idah 5:96].

Otters and turtles. The correct view is that to be on the safe side, it is permissible to eat them after slaughtering them properly, because they live both on land and in the sea. Here the rule is that in the case of animals that live both on land and in the sea, the rules concerning land animals should be given precedence, to be on the safe side, so they must be slaughtered properly, except for crabs which do not need to be slaughtered, even though they live both on land and in the sea, because they do not have blood.

Everything that can cause harm is forbidden as food, even if it comes from the sea, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you.” [al-Nisa’ 4:29] and: “… and do not throw yourselves into destruction…” [al-Baqarah 2:195].

(See al-Mughni, 11/83; Haashiyah al-Rawd, 7/430; Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/197; and Ahkaam al-At’imah by al-Fawzaan).

And Allaah knows best.


NS
Re: Don't eat that Ribbit-ribbit!
Kathy
05/04/01 at 12:46:01

[quote](interpretation of the meaning): “Lawful to you is (the pursuit of) water-game and its use for food – for the benefit of yourselves …” [al-Maa’idah 5:96].
Everything that can cause harm is forbidden as food, even if it comes from the sea, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you.” [al-Nisa’ 4:29] and: “… and do not throw yourselves into destruction…” [al-Baqarah 2:195].[/quote]


Shark?
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/04/01 at 13:16:30
Kathy that is hallal.
bhalo the hanifis don't consider crab to be halal, they consider it as mukruh tahrim(a mukruh that is harram). When it comes to shrimp and lobster, there is a difference of opinion in hanafi fiqu depending on if you regard it to be a fish.

I am hanafi and I eat crabs cause only hanifis from the Indian subcontinent follow hanifi fiqu staunchly, we take some things from shafi, at least I do.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
nehar
05/05/01 at 03:13:14
[slm]

FROGS?? yuk, the sound of em sick, id never eat 1!!!

i need a sick face, but i cant find 1, so im using this face instead :o.

[wlm]

nehar
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
Jenna
05/05/01 at 23:58:56
Hence all kinds of food from the sea are permissible, whether they are plants or animals, alive or dead. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Lawful to you is (the pursuit of) water-game and its use for food – for the benefit of yourselves and those who travel…” [al-Maa’idah 5:96].
_______________________________________________________________________________________

As salamu alaikum

 Yes I do happen to know that some Scholars say it is Haraam to eat shrimp, lobster and crab. But Subhan'Allah this ayah cme from the Quran! They say shripm in Haraam because it eats the waste of other animals. And the say that crab is Haraam because of the way they cook it as is the same with lobster. They boil it while it is alive but the only reason as to why they do this is because if they killed it first it would be poisonus. Subhan'Allah that is only a matter of opinion when it comes to lobster, crab, and shrimp being Haraam for Allah did say that all things in the ocean are permissble.


Allah hu Alim
Jenna
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
bhaloo
05/06/01 at 00:51:36
slm

I haven't heard any scholar's opinion saying that shrimp or lobster were haraam to eat.  I know within the hanafi school they do consider it makuruh, but not haraam.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/06/01 at 12:42:09
[quote]slm

I haven't heard any scholar's opinion saying that shrimp or lobster were haraam to eat.  I know within the hanafi school they do consider it makuruh, but not haraam.[/quote]

asalm walakum
please read what i have wrote above, i am a hanifi and i have got this info from one of the biggest hanifi alims alive today.
'mukruh tanzim' means mukruh, you are not sinful when you do it. 'mukruh tahrim' means harram, you are sinful when you do it.
hanifis use the word mukruh tahrim to mean harram throgh ahad hadith or ijtehad. you are sinful when you do it, but not kaffar when you deny it.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/06/01 at 13:29:17

Hmm the views of Hanafi scholars in south asia seem to be different from most of the stuff i read on this group about what muslims are allowed to eat and not eat!

For people from south asia the rules are as far as i know

1) fish are allowed because they have already been cut at the throat hence dolphins and whales as they do not have gills are not allowed
(they have a breathing hole at the top of the head) and dolphins and whales are not fish! though they are sea creatures

2) fish above a certain weight i think it's roughly 40 kilo's are forbidden

3) shrimp are allowed crabs and lobsters are not

4) frogs not allowed, turtles/tortoises not allowed

5) worms not allowed , and if you consider that slugs and snails are basically worms i wouldn't think you were allowed to eat them ..why though ANYBODY would want to eat a piece of slimy trash is beyond me..only the Ferengi would come up with a idea like that...

6) rabbits and hares are allowed

the best thing to do is to stick to a established fatwa from the scholars of the past regarding things that do not change and only take your fatwa from

1) a scholar with a ijaaza who comes from a rope of scholars

2) a scholar who is not known for frequenting the palaces of rulers
remember that the 4 imams of this ummah were not known as people who liked visiting rulers

Anyway the above laws are from the rules on food taught in the North West Frontier in Pakistan and were around before the Barelwi-Deobandi split

                         wasalaam

 what i find puzzling is this if u compare societies where the old hanafi fiqh has gone underground (central asia and the caucasus) you find the rules governing approved amd disapproved is the same as that in traditional muslim societies in the NWFP despite their being zero contact between the two

Whereas if you compare say the NWFP with areas of Hanafi fiqh from the arab countries i find there is a massive difference just wondering has anybody come across any articles on this? eg how modern arab scholars are prone to legalize more than the scholars of the past?
   
                     Vice is a monster of such awful mien
                     That to be hated needs to be seen
                     Yet seen too oft, familiar with it's face
                     We first endure, then pity , then embrace

    remember what the prophet said the women of SAUDI arabia would do around the kaaba

    islam is truly a religion of the stranger




wasalaam


Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jannah
05/06/01 at 18:42:10
[quote]remember what the prophet said the women of SAUDI arabia would do around the kaaba[/quote]

what??
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
Kashif
05/06/01 at 19:33:33
assalaamu alaikum
[quote]remember what the prophet said the women of SAUDI arabia would do around the kaaba

what?? [/quote]
In fact, he said that it would be the women of the tribe of Daws, and not the family of Sa'ud.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
Mahmoodah
05/06/01 at 21:17:28
salam
y would ne1 wanna eat ffrogz neways!!!
go n hav sum chicken, lol

wa-salam
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
Saleema
05/06/01 at 23:29:26
[slm]

Do what?

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/07/01 at 17:47:06

hmm kashif reread that ...it dosn't say the tribe of saud would do it
just pointing out that the process has already started it's not called
the hijaz anymore or arabia but it's identified with a tribe..u unnerstan me...*lol*

incidentally there was a article in the London Times about 2 weeks ago about a female american soldier who was campaigning that she be allowwed to wander around in SAUDI arabia wearing shorts..
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/08/01 at 04:57:14
Asalm walakum ,, the reason why hanifi fiqu is purer in some places then others is because of contact with other madhabs, I think it is a good thing. because it makes it easier for ulimah to learn from each other and debate.
this makes the established fiqu stronger and weak opinions disappear.
hanafi opinions are purer in places like the northern Indian subcontinent, central Asia and eastern Europe.
In turkey, the Arab world and south east Asia there is a lot of contact between hanifies and shafis so there people eat more stuff.
Are you sure you meant whale, cause there is a very well know hadith where the messenger eat whale.
Is there any one here knowledgeable about hanifi fiqu? Cause if they do say whale is harram how do they get around that hadith?
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/09/01 at 17:17:47
salaam

jehad could you give me the reference for the hadith or the scholar
who quoted it

                                           jazakallah
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/09/01 at 17:19:19


here's a good one for you
i telephoned my local mosque a while ago to ask them if quail's eggs
were halal and the guy on the other end of the line asked me
how many legs they had!...heh heh heh
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
se7en
05/09/01 at 19:43:42


as salaamu alaykum,

Uhh.. so *what* exactly is it that the women of the tribe of daws would do?
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/10/01 at 07:12:50
the hadith is a very famus hadith, it is sahi, i know it is in Muslim, it may be in others as well.
i will inshallah look it up and give the hadith number. it is not about food. it is about jihad.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
humble_muslim
05/10/01 at 13:02:56
AA

The hdaith reports that some companions of the Prophet SAW were on an expidetion and found a beached whale.  They ate of that whale for many weeks.
NS
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
jehad
05/10/01 at 13:11:53
i think the comentary of the hadith book said it was a sperm whale.
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/10/01 at 20:37:20

In what condition were they when they ate it?
and when did this event happen?

Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
humble_muslim
05/11/01 at 05:27:28
AA

From Sahih Muslim

Jabir reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) sent us (on an expedition) and appointed Abu 'Ubaida our chief that we might intercept a caravan of the Quraish and provided us with a bag of dates. And he found for us nothing besides it. Abu Ubaida gave each of us one date (everyday). I (Abu Zubair, one of the narrators) said: What did you do with that? He said: We sucked that just as a baby sucks and then drank water over that, and it sufficed us for the day until night. We beat off leaves with the help of our staffs, then drenched them with water and ate them. We then went to the coast of the sea, and there rose before us on the coast of the sea something like a big mound. We came near that and we found that it was a beast, called al-'Anbar (spermaceti whale). Abu 'Ubaida said. It is dead. He then said: No (but it does not matter), we have been sent by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the path of Allah and you are hard pressed (on account of the scarcity of food), so you eat that. We three hundred in number stayed there for a month, until we grew bulky. He (Jabir) said: I saw how we extracted pitcher after pitcher full of fat from the cavity of its eye, and sliced from it compact piece of meat equal to a bull or like a bull. Abu 'Ubaida called forth thirteen men from us and he made them sit in the cavity of its eye, and he took hold of one of the ribs of its chest and made it stand and then saddled the biggest of the camels we had with us and it passed under it (the arched rib), and we provided ourselves with pieces of boiled meat (especially for use in our journey). When we came back to Medina, we went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and made a mention of that to him, whereupon he said: That was a provision which Allah had brought forth for you. Is there any piece of meat (left) with you, so tnat you give to us that? He (Jabir) said: We sent to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) tome of that (a piece of meat) and he ate it.
NS
Re: Frogs legs - to croak or not to croak?
chachi
05/11/01 at 16:44:36
'nuff said

"We came near that and we found that it was a beast, called al-'Anbar (spermaceti whale). Abu 'Ubaida said. It is dead. He then said: No (but it does not matter), we have been sent by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the path of Allah and you are hard pressed (on account of the scarcity of food), so you eat that"


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