CFR

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CFR
chachi

05/06/01 at 17:35:38

CFR = Council on Foreign Relations = Kaaf Fah Rah?
on his head?

Re: CFR
jehad

05/08/01 at 05:02:58

(smile) may be?

Re: CFR
ABD

05/08/01 at 10:22:26

Slm,
Chachi, I didn't understand what u meant by "on his head"?

slm

Re: CFR
proudtobemuslim

05/08/01 at 11:15:11

Assalam-u-Alaikum,

Hehe... nice one!

Kaaf Fah raah spells 'Kufr' in Arabic and the person with that written on his head is the Dajjal so chachi is just trying to get a little message across about the sincerity of this council!

Wassalam-u-Alaikum,
Uzer

Re: CFR
chachi

05/09/01 at 17:33:08

and don't forget what the prophet said about people with blue hats who would call themselves peacekeepers..

Re: CFR
chachi

05/09/01 at 17:38:43

incidentally would that be like a logo put on peoples heads in the future? like who they work for? i mean i know that some firms are about to launch chips their employees will have to wear in the office to track them

so maybe this will be like a policemans badge?..hey i've got a patent on this idea ...*lol*

i mean if people will have devices attached to their thighs telling them whats happening in their homes as the hadith says then why not a
ultra thin piece of material on their foreheads identifying them and tracking them by their companies..scary thought...NO LOGO! *lol*

Re: CFR
proudtobemuslim

05/11/01 at 06:50:43

Assalam-u-Alaikum,

What did the Prophet (SAW) say about people who call themselves peacekeepers and wear blue hats? ... Brother stop being so ambiguous *lol*.

Wassalam-u-Alaikum
Uzer

Re: CFR
chachi

05/11/01 at 16:54:54

Hey as Confucius said If i give you three corners and you can't return with the fourth..*lol*

anyway prophet said all they would do is cause mischief!
hadith was quoted by hamza yusuf
Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/11/01 at 17:23:50

A.W.W.

WHERE IN THE HELL DID YOU GET THAT Brother Wahid Khan, By me wirting in uppercase I want an answer, that is genuine.
Whoever, lies about the prophet he/she will be in deep sin and I've even heard a scholar say that they have secured a position in the fire of hell.
So bring me your daleel and bring it fast, and don't just say that Sheikh Hamza Yusuf said because that ain't good enough.

Whats the world coming to....

Only Allah can save us from the mischief.

Re: CFR
chachi

05/11/01 at 17:57:32

Hanif thats way out of order bro

hamza yusuf gave the source as tabarani
unlike yourself i trust a scholar who
is acknowledged by other muslims as being a scholar
and a good muslim

your attitude seems to be unless a scholar gives you hadith and source you won't accept it!

that displays ignorance of a number of issues

1) the hadith is not sunnah it is what people said the prophet said

2) the sunnah is the practice of the prophet that was copied by the people of madina hence sunna is PRACTICE bro not a quote in a book
i suggest you read the life story of imam maalik who tried to make this very point!

3) you display a lack of trust in islamic scholars so how do you know your hadith are correct since they were written by these very scholars teachers

i mean this is really amazing i suggest you now go and send a letter to hamza yusuf and ask him for the hadith !

do you perchance believe that getting a book of hadith and quoting hadith from it is how islamic law was created?
if so why did imam malik not write up more of the hadith why did he say 'that is sufficient'?!

Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/11/01 at 18:45:29

A.W.W.

Bro if I said caused you upset, then how do you think the prophet would feel when somebody quotes something which is not true then backs it up by saying the prophet said it.
I don't want to get into a flame war, nor am I against Shiekh Hamza Yusuf, I know his a good scholar, a man who is clearly better than me in all respects, however this does not mean that if I ask for a source you simply disregard it. If you had the source I would have told other brothers and sisters about it. That oh look at this and then relate it to the UN.

Many people go to Scholars,ask a fatwa and then ask can I have the source to back it up, some scholars show the source and some scholars get very upset and say your asking me for the source How dare you! this is what happens in some places in the UK.

Thats why I like to hear or read a reliable source, if you can provide thats fine if not then, I'd like to know what audio material its on and I'll do the research myself. And belive me I don't hold a lack of trust in the scholars look at the history of Hazrat Umar and see how he reacted to certain hadith's for thier authenticity, look at the history of Imam Bukhari how he used to verify a source. This is nothing new and I would encourage people to ask several scholars about hadith, if it appears that they can't get the answer, are not satisfied or can't find the source. Recently I found out an act that a certain practice was deemed as sunnah, however, after research it was found not to be sunnah this was only found out due to extensive research.

Bro Wahid you need to be careful whos words you are saying, you are saying the words through the chain of
narrators of Prophet saws to the nearest meaning. And as I said earlier how much harm do you think we would cause if it was a lie...???

Well now I've got to write a letter to Shiekh Hamza Yusuf and search for the Blue Hats or UN in Tabrani.

Re: CFR
chachi

05/12/01 at 17:22:55

back up a bit hanif

lets put your question in quotes

you said "WHERE IN THE HELL DID YOU GET THAT"

i suggest before you try to question anyone you learn about adab
your question wasn't so much a question as an attack on my comment

now you might be all in favour of the cfr and the un and thus might
understandably be upset when i quoted that hadith however in no way does that give you the RIGHT to order me ok?!

secondly i completely disagree with your position of getting a book on hadith and then attempt to create fiqh you might be a scholar
but i am not and if you must know even amongst the sahabi some deferred to others eg hadrat ali was one of the few muslims who was qualified to calculate zakat payments and shares in property on intestacy

so according to your rationale we should ask everybody what their proof is to which they give us a hadith then we do what? accept the hadith? no we go and check it's source ..very well we find it in bukhari..then what..why should we accept bukhari after all he's ONLY a scholar and we know a scholar isn't sufficent for you so what next? do u compare the hadith with the qu'ran?..exactly how are you going to do that?!

so we arrive at this YOUR method is to reject all scholars till you find the hadith in bukhari or muslim..who were...ah yes ...SCHOLARS!

and so then we get to your comment about asking sveral scholars..lets see now since this is such a big issue that even the scholars disagree you want to check the majority opinion to see which view is right! what if the majority agree on a issue for totally different reasons?...does that make it right? what reasoning are you following here?

so tell me was ibn taymiyyah a scholar who a lot of other scholars agreed with in his lifetime?..

personally i'll stick with the sunni fiqh
and it's scholars who have ijaaza as opposed to those
who were given it by rulers
or who acquired it by reading books..

i'll do one better and try to find the title of the cassette that i heard hamza yusuf on then you can go and fight with him about

Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/12/01 at 20:04:54

A.W.W.

Chachi and wahid khan, I apologies to you for saying the things I was completely out of order. Please forgive me.

I didn't mean to cause offend, however where I live its very disturbing this is what happens, people do not want to undertake research onto where the source is from. Many a times I hear talks in the mosques and study circles and belive me as I say this people have been quoting hadith which are weak and sometimes they are fabriacted, you ask for the source and they say oh a scholar said it so its ok. So that now makes it ok to qoute the hadith, by saying a scholar said it. Is it as simple as that, has this what our hadiths have come to. Tomorrow an enemy of Islam might just come out with all sorts of fabricated and weak hadiths and what would the response be there then, lets follow him or her since they said it ???. We live in a time of great confusion, just a couple of months ago when the Taliban destroyed the statues it was the muslim countries that gave fatwas against the Taliban, however when these scholars were questioned why they came up with these fatwas they answered back with all sorts of garbage.

And no I don't disagree with Scholars as I earlier said I like to read the source as well, there is nothing wrong with that. If I find something that I don't disagree with then I make an attempt to sit with a scholar and ask him to explain it to me. And no I don't go searching for every hadith but the more you research into Islam the more interesting it becomes.

As for the UN and CFR I hate them to the core, however, my brothers in Saudia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and all other muslim countries are part of the UN. There are many good muslim soldiers/ relief workers who have been in the UN and then offered their militaty services and other services later elsewhere. And I personally think that perhaps the issue of Palestine can be solved a lot faster, if a platoon of Muslim soldiers went, under the umbrella of the UN. This is what they did in Sudan, Saudia and Pakistani peace keepers were sent to the muslim quarters. I don't like what the UN does in fact I wish there was another alternative to the so called peace keeping that they do, the alternative is a muslim peace keeping force.

As for the lecture insha-allah I'll get the tape and I'm also researching Tabrani as well. If I find the source which I know I will, I'll put it up.

Once again I apologise for my rude remark, my lack of adab and naive behaviour to you and all other brothers, I hope in your hearts you can forgive me.

Re: CFR
chachi

05/13/01 at 14:12:28

Salaam

i gave you the name of a scholar. you can question him about it because
Unless a scholar contradicts a sharia issue that the muslims have always followed then why should i go and look up the hadith? the prophet said biddah would increase he didn't say they would decrease!

if the issue is one of fiqh and the person is a recognised scholar with ijaaza and he hasn't been seen to be a hypocrite or rejected by his teachers or does not regularly visit rulers that are known to be tyrants why should i disagree with him?

you may question a scholar about everything to further your understanding of islam perhaps you have the time..i do not..and as the prophet said to a sahabi do not make the prayer a punishment for the people..people have different capacities

i suggest you attend a good madrassah ideally in a traditional muslim enviroment and then when you have ijaaza i might be interested in your fatwa's inshallah, until then i won't use your sayings to go against the methodology of islam taught by scholars to my family and other people since nobody in the past has accused them of engaging in bidah's except for a certain well known group who were active with other groups in destroying the khilaafa

"As for the UN and CFR I hate them to the core, however, my brothers in Saudia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and all other muslim countries are part of the UN. There are many good muslim soldiers/ relief workers who have been in the UN and then offered their militaty services and other services later elsewhere. And I personally think that perhaps the issue of Palestine can be solved a lot faster, if a platoon of Muslim soldiers went, under the umbrella of the UN. This is what they did in Sudan, Saudia and Pakistani peace keepers were sent to the muslim quarters. I don't like what the UN does in fact I wish there was another alternative to the so called peace keeping that they do, the alternative is a muslim peace keeping force."

Please note the quote "went under the umbrella of the UN"
have you looked at the fatwa that was signed by the scholar of YOUR methodology Bin Baaz in the book " Defending the muslim lands" regarding the jihad in afghanistan? 'nuff said

your above quote seems to be rather contradictory it starts off saying they're are the demons and then they become guardian angels
so your saying that a surgeon can use a meat cleaver just as well as a scalpel?!

adab is not only polite words akhi it is polite actions ..reminds me of how a certain person kept on pestering imam maalik about hypothetical situations...*lol*

wasalaam

Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/13/01 at 19:27:25

A.W.W.

Again I apologise if I've said anything wrong to you Bro Wahid Khan, Amy Allah keep you and your iman in the best of spirits.

I don't understand your statement on what Shiekh Bin Baaz is saying, what did he say...??? I don't want to say anything stupid.

As for the UN and Islamic forces, Bro please understand what you are saying.There are numerous brothers and sisters who through the channel of the UN come to the aid of muslims. Numerous brothers who were in an Alien army turned into Mujahideen who are now the lions of Islam.

You need to be pro active not reactive, for example, we need to have a muslim earthquake force, or a muslim army, or muslim doctors who travel around muslim countries to help the poor and weak. The UN I don't like em, however, there are numerous doctors in the field who help Muslims through and through, does it now mean that if somebody who has the badge of the UN they are immediatly trecherous to Islam???? There are numerous brothers in the Taliban who help with the relief work, are they now Kufr as well...??? , The convoys in Palestine have to go through 16 checkpoints to the refugee camps, they have to unload all the food parcels at every checkpoint and then load them back on, now by having more hands to unload and load the truck, are our Palestinian brothers/sisters now alien to us...???

The muslim countires don't have a force where they can come rusing to the aid of muslims, as I said in my earlier post we can have a peace keeping force but it is Muslim through and through and abides by the Sharia. Do you really think these kufr are just gonna let us by
'And (remember) when the disbelivers plotted against you to imprison you, or to kill you, or to get you out from you home, they were plotting and Allah too was planning, and Allah is the best of the planners. Quran 8:30. Why can't we have a muslim force that helps in these and other areas ???. We are only weak today becuase we have left the deen.

and I am of the Hanafi fiqh, but I like to read and research.

As for your time for deen, why is this a problem...??? I don't want to start accusations but seriously how can we be expected to increase our daily knowledge in deen when we are busy in our lives. Start of with the basics, for example spend half an hour in a week with a scholar, who is preapred to educate and is preapred to listen to your problems and concerns.

And where is this tradtional muslim environment...??? Tell me one country which is fully on Deen

As Nu'man Ibn Bashir relates that the holy prophet saws said..."The muslims in thier mutual love, kindness and compassion are like the human body where when one of its parts is in agony the entire body feels the pain both in sleeplessness and fever" Related by Bukahri and Muslim, therfore Bro Wahid if I've said anything to you that has caused you upset or anyone else please forgive me for the sake of Allah.
The prophet saws brought Islam as a perfection and after perfection there is only imperfection, truly the mistakes are all mine and that is not part of Islam.

Salaam

And Allah knows best.

Re: CFR
chachi

05/14/01 at 15:29:08

Salaam

1) download a copy of 'defending the muslim lands' it should be available on the net or cost less than £5 if printed read the fatwa his student gave in there and which he signed
he gives a lot of quotes from hadiths in there so you don't have to trust his word on it

2) traditional enviroment = a city where you don't see unsislamic things everyday and as this is hard to find try a madrassah near some village in any muslim country. why do you assume you need a styate to learn about islam?
pick a scholar who didn't study at a coca cola islamic 'university'
like i said the more natural an enviroment is the more islamic you will find it..become a talib not a 'student'

3) to quote another scholar ..you can be the nicest perosn on a plane but if your on the wrong plane to the wrong destination YOU are the loser in time and wealth

wasalaam

Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/14/01 at 18:36:01

A.W.W.

Hope you alright Bro Wahid Khan,

Shiekh Bin Baaz, his was scholar much better than me in all respects, I don't know about you so I leave it as that. Please. His also past away so lets respect what he did for Islam and lets not start to dis our dead folk.

As for 'Coca-Cola Universitys' what do you mean by this...??? Never come across one, are they American or something.?

Aren't you missing a bing point on learning Islam can be learnt anywhere in the world it dosen't have to be in a village or state, its how much Talab u have. So I don't know what your on about there. And sometimes in villages there is less deen than in the city, one good example, there are more borthers and sisters co-ordianting and working together in the city of London than anywhere else in the UK. London boasts the highest number of muslims and muslims projects.

to quote another scholar ..you can be the nicest perosn on a plane but if your on the wrong plane to the wrong destination YOU are the loser in time and wealth Yeah so whats your point...??

Again apoligies if I've misunderstood your post, forgive and forget.

Salaam

Re: CFR
chachi

05/15/01 at 17:12:14

errm wow talk about defensive personality
i said read YOUR scholars fatwa about the views that YOU put forward
I NEVER critisized him..least not in this post...

coca cola uni..i suggest you go and study at a traditional islamic madrassah say in pakistan and compare it with a university in saudia arabia
in the past the talibs ate lentils to teach them humility
now they drink coke ...

strange this i thought i told you..you don't need an islamic state to study islam..did i say ANYTHING about islamic projects?!
and what do you mean there is less deen in the villages sometimes than the cities?..do you mean numerically?..i suggest you look up the word city...

errm i can't think of a simpler way to explain what i just said
i suggest you re-read your own articles

Only the forgiveness of Allah (swt) is real to quote a tabi-yeen
the greatest benefit you can do me is to read my posts before you reply as you've wasted enough time (both mine and yours)

wasalaam
this will be my last post
until you read that fatwa
in the book

Re: CFR
BroHanif

05/15/01 at 17:57:05

A.W.W.

Subhanahllah, Allah be praised, look at the tone of your language.

Whats wrong with Drinking coke...??? And as for your information I do have a friend who studys in saudia, in fact I have the privilige of knowing a lot of students who have studied and who study. One of my friend is taught by non other than SHIEKH SUDAIS, another of my cousins is taught in Medina, again by who none other than top scholars. I am a good friend of a Sheikh who studied in Deoband India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, South Africa. I have friends who have studied in Al-Azahr, Egypt. I have friends who have studied in Bury, Darouh ulm, I have friends who are studying in the Dewsbury Markaz. And what do these people have in common, humility, understanding of deen and above all they are real students, whether they drink coke, perrier or have lentils thats beside the point. Do you how these students live...?? If not please do find out, you'll be surprised how they strived to become scholars of deen.
Humility isn't gained by eating lentils or eating leaves off the tree it is how much yearning you have for knowledge. I don't know how many people you know who have studied worldwide but as for me I know from my good friends and scholars that knowledge can be learnt anywhere, provided you are ready to learn that knowledge and go through the hardships to attain it.

Less deen in the villige means the resources available for one to practice religion.

[quote]Only the forgiveness of Allah (swt) is real to quote a tabi-yeen[/quote] Whos disagreeing, however, does this mean that we don't ask for forgiveness from fellow muslims or humans.? C'mon don't talk silly now.

And I for one didn't feel I was wasting my time, however, since it feels that I have wasted your time forgive me.

Salaam,

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