Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| "indian thugs" |
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| pakiprncess |
| 05/07/01 at 18:56:36 |
| asalaam alaikum friends - bro arslans wonderful slang 102 thread reminded me of an email and i went to go dig it up...even though it doesnt pertain to us (as muslims) completely, as much as it may pertain to hindus, whos culture and religion are intertwined with dance as a means of reaching spirituality, i still think its a pretty good article and it does portray some very scary aspects of muslim teenagers as ive seen them...it sure made me think hard the next time i listened to tu pac's "changes"... read it and let me know what you think ---- Debauchery and Disappointment Dawinder S. Sidhu Co-founder and Director of Development -------------------------------------------------------------- When I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania last May, the most common question posed to me was, "How was your Penn experience?" Without hesitation and with complete pride, I responded, "Great!" or "Unbelievable!" I usually go on and on about how my time in Philadelphia was satisfying academically, socially, and intellectually. Yet, after I am done recounting these positive memories, I qualify my initial response: "The only bad part of my Penn experience is the Indians." Yes, the only negative part of my entire experience at Penn or in Philadelphia was dealing with other Indians. In fact, my first encounter with a massive amount of Indians - at an Indian party - was the most disturbing and disappointing point of my college career. At this past weekend's Bhangra Blowout, I was reminded of and witnessed these negative elements of our second-generation Indian culture once again. What am I speaking of? First and perhaps most important, what is most appalling is the consistent and widespread degradation of young Indian women. These women, who for the most part are simply coming to enjoy a social gathering with their friends, are subject to a barrage of sexual comments and even physical harassment. Like most Indian guys, I enjoy the company and affection of Indian girls; yet this attraction, however strong, should not manifest itself in a manner that routinely degrades the woman. Our prospective female friends or partners should be treated as human beings, complete with feelings and emotions, not as trivial recipients of insulting and demeaning comments. What's worse, this treatment is so prolific that these women become accustomed to the lines and the even the groping. These are expected, hopefully not accepted, prices that a woman must pay in order to attend an Indian party. While boyfriends or close friends might, understandably, get angry at other Indian guys, the woman realize it is a fight that cannot be won: you simply cannot reply to every single person who makes a unpleasant remark or places their hands where they should not be. This is not to say that each woman is passive or inviting in her silence. Rather, the victims themselves can do little or nothing; they cannot respond each and every time. The perpetrators are the same individuals who start fight after fight, resulting in the party to end early. In Philadelphia, we would be lucky if a party lasted past 1AM. Why do these individuals participate in behavior that degrades woman, divides our second-generation community and prevents others from having a good time? My answer to this question, while potentially offensive, is honest. The cause for this behavior is that many young Indian men are adopting a culture that is not their own, and acting out behaviors that are not truly a part of this culture, while they might seem so. Quite plainly, Indian men, many of whom come from affluent or respected backgrounds, are adopting the hip-hop culture as their own. They are substituting their own rich culture and heritage with the hip-hop mentality. This mentality more properly belongs to those who actually live in the trying circumstances that created hip-hop and which hip-hop describes in its lyrics and beats. Since 1992, I have religiously listened to hip-hop music. The struggles depicted in these songs are not my own, my own past cannot compare to those who dwelled in the inner city, wondering if they would be alive the next month and how to meet their bills. Yet, I am able to vent my own frustration through hip-hop, even though my own troubles are on an entirely smaller scale than those of hip-hop artists. The beauty of hip-hop lies in the fact that a man's basic fears and stresses are so eloquently articulated. Moreover, that the fears and stress described are real. Indian men, who are not from the ghetto and cannot possibly empathize with the reality of the inner city, do more than listen to hip-hop music. They are unjustly and inappropriately usurping a culture they cannot know anything about, because they haven't lived fearing death everyday, lived on welfare or sold drugs to survive. One can appreciate the music and the struggle, yet cannot wear the clothes or speak the lingo in an attempt to be from the hip-hop culture. Our culture is Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepalese or Sri Lankan with an American element. We must merge our cultures, not usurp and completely replace an identity that represents years of hardship. Indian men who adopt the hip-hop culture serve to disrespect not only our own women and people as a whole, but also those of the true hip-hop background. Many Indian men start fights and act mean as if they were going up against a rival gang, as if they had a real struggle for survival. The sad truth is that when these Indian men return home after a party, they are not going home to starving children or to a low income neighborhood, they are returning to apartments that their parents probably subsidize or pay for, to their family's homes filled with food, and to safety. What we have, then, is a completely unnecessary and disrespectful behavior by many young Indian men. This Bhangra Blowout, I again was reminded how disappointed I am to be Indian, how my fellow Indian man continues to degrade woman and disrespect each other. Indian men, it is time that we look at ourselves in the mirror and appreciate what our parents have given us and the real struggles that hip-hop artists have gone through. ____________________________ Dawinder S. Sidhu is C0-founder and Director of Development of The Satya Circle. He is currently pursuing a Master's degree in government from Johns Hopkins University. He obtained a B.A. in philosophy from the University of Pennsylvania. |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| jannah |
| 05/07/01 at 21:59:02 |
| [quote]accustomed to the lines and the even the groping. [/quote] eww that's disgusting, it's sad that those guys are bypassing their own cultural teachings even and turning into lechers!! women should have some self-respect and stand up for themselves and not go to places like that!! again makes me glad i'm muslim! :-) |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| Saleema |
| 05/07/01 at 22:52:09 |
| you simply cannot reply to every single person who makes a unpleasant remark or places their hands where they should not be. Women deserve respect. And it's sad that people do such things. But such women shouldn't complain when they put themselves into situations like these. It's different when stuff like that happens to women when they don;t put themselves into situations like these. Those are the women that deserve sympathy. But if you go to such places knowing that this will happen then don't complain! It's you fault for putting yourself in a situation like that. [wlm] Saleema |
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| Rashid |
| 05/08/01 at 00:17:55 |
| [slm] While I agree with the general premise of the article, and I have witnessed it myself (in my case born muslims from indo-pak background completely adopting the so-called "hip hop mentality") I notice that the writer is equating the "hip hop mentality" with disrespect to women. A better term would be "ghetto thug mentality" because it gives the impression that all hip hoppers are disrespectful to women and that's not the case. [wlm] |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| jannah |
| 05/08/01 at 13:42:59 |
| wlm, uh i've seen some of those 'hip-hop' videos ..they don't seem to respect no women??? unless their way of respecting is by showing em dancing around all u know what going after $$ |
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| se7en |
| 05/08/01 at 07:06:28 |
| what hip-hopper *is* respectful to women? most rap videos are just images of blunted, thugged out fools bling-blingin' in rented bentleys with naked women writhing around them as they crank out sickeningly trashy, overused lyrical themes about how much money they make, how many women they can get, and west/east coast parties... jannah.. "hop hop" ?! hahahahhaha... girl that just shows your expertise on the subject :P hahahahah... |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| Rashid |
| 05/08/01 at 15:19:07 |
| [slm] I agree hip hop videos are pitiful, but there's a whole culture behind hip hop that's not concerned with materialism and disrespecting women. This is the part of hip hop that's not all over MTV and stuff. It's on the underground level and most never get to experience it because ignorance is all over the airwaves. [wlm] |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/08/01 at 15:26:16 |
| slm What Se7en described as hip hop culture is what I thought hip hop culture is as well. Brother Rashid, what is the other side? ??? |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| se7en |
| 05/08/01 at 16:30:59 |
Rashid you mean like nas before he sold out :P |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| pakiprncess |
| 05/08/01 at 19:16:11 |
| asalaam alaikum friends - [quote]I agree hip hop videos are pitiful, but there's a whole culture behind hip hop that's not concerned with materialism and disrespecting women.[/quote] bro rashid, i totally agree with you here...my concern is, why are the muslim youth of today, especially those coming from the indo/pak background, adopting such doctrines? didnt someone once say, life imitates art? i think thats the case here...i notice it everyday, more and more, until sometimes its unbearable to go to school and see people dressed in such a horrific manner, especially when its something ive seen on an mtv video...especially when those words are coming out of my little brothers mouth. its very nerve-racking....like, how to stop the spread of this? when does it go from innocent words like "homie" and "lets bounce" to actually fulfilling what those rapsters are always raving about? the money, the women, and the power..... |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| Laboogie |
| 05/08/01 at 21:00:59 |
| [slm] [quote]I agree hip hop videos are pitiful, but there's a whole culture behind hip hop that's not concerned with materialism and disrespecting women. This is the part of hip hop that's not all over MTV and stuff. It's on the underground level and most never get to experience it because ignorance is all over the airwaves.[/quote] I agree with mi hermano Rashid... [quote]Rashid you mean like nas before he sold out :P [/quote] Yeah, what happend to him?...he totally did a 360 and like hermano Rashid said before, the music industry can be very dangerous (im paraphrasing,bro) [quote]my concern is, why are the muslim youth of today, especially those coming from the indo/pak background, adopting such doctrines?[/quote] what do you mean sista? are you talking about them adopting the hip hop culture in general or the ghetto thug mentalityas bro.Rashid puts it? Peace out Live from the N-Y-C!!! |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| Saleema |
| 05/08/01 at 23:33:01 |
| [slm] Hip hop, rap started out as forms of music that were socially concious and political. Now, it's different, u hardly hear stuff like that anymore. It was like that up until the 60 and survived on shaky ground well into the 70s too. Then in the 80s it undertook a major transformation. [wlm] Saleema |
| Re: "indian thugs" |
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| pakiprncess |
| 05/09/01 at 18:32:17 |
| asalaam alaikum friends - [quote]what do you mean sista? are you talking about them adopting the hip hop culture in general or the ghetto thug mentality as bro.Rashid puts it?[/quote] i mean the ghetto thug mentality as depicted on tv, the internet, and movies...its horrible! just cuz im brown like most of the rappers & hip hoppers doesnt mean i should adopt their facade concerning the "its all about money & power" attitude...know what i mean? |
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