Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Give us some advice |
|---|
| tasfiyah |
| 05/08/01 at 11:46:26 |
| Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim Assalamu alaikum Warahamatulahi wabarakatuh Alhadmdulillah wasalatu wasalam ala Rasulillah This question may have been asked before, and many of us may have been faced with a similar situation in our daily lives. Here's the scenario: A brother is at university, he goes into a computer lab and sees and asian girl "mouching" around (holding hands, touching, heads close together etc etc) with a white non muslim (the colour/ race is insignificant). The brother is sitting there working away and the couple continue with whatever they are doing .... Later on the same girl comes to the brothers office and asks for help (the brother is working in computer support), this requires her given her name... She has a muslim name ... This makes the brother very angry... (he was hoping she would not be a muslim when he first saw her) How does one react to this kind of thing, when muslims brothers and sister act without any shame, in front of other practising muslims. They can tell that this person is muslim, by his beard, pants/trousers etc.. and still they continue to do what they do...without any shame. Its as if they are saying : "We couldn't care less... We are sinning and we are doing it openly!" This makes my blood boil, gets me angry, frustrated and upset. Should one just turn a blind eye and say why I should upset myself, for someone who does not seem to care about Islam, or should one continue to feel upset and try to do something ? And what can one do ? (I know what i feel like doing ... feel like giving the guy a good kicking, and threatening the sister to tell her parents !) Anyways ... look forward to the advice. May Allah (swt) protect us all from our whims and desires, and the wispherings of Shaitan from amongst the Jinn and Mankind. wasalamu alaikum warahmatulahi wbarakatuh http://194.66.45.228/ |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| jehad |
| 05/08/01 at 13:54:30 |
| It happens here as well, and i feel the same way. sickening. when i find they have Muslim names, i just hope they are ismaili or qadyani or some thing. often they are not. the problem is that is the way people behave in the west. and people who come from muslim familys are often only muslim due to a accedent of birth. talking to them is just like talking to a kaffar. except for the fact that they lable them selves as muslim. but this lable is just like a lable of race. The parents never teach their kids why we believe islam is the truth. so all the rules are meaningless for the kids. we are not jews, and Islam is not a race. I'm not sure how to give dawa to a female one. i have given dawa to many males who were muslim only by name. you have to start with basics, cause often they don't even believe, they just except. they will say they believe in god, and islam, but the only reason they will be able to give for believing in these things is the accedent of birth. Islam is clearly the truth, if you explain islam to any one, they will believe, they might not become muslim, but they will believe it is the truth. after the person excepts islam is the truth then go on to jannah and jahanum, and how sin led to them. If you just tell them stop behaving like a prostitute, they will ask you "why, behaving like a prostitute is fun". and "whats wrong with it, it makes me feel good?" and "what harm am i doing to any one" and "i know a lot of people who don't behave like prostitutes who are really bad, behaver is not a mesure of how good or bad some one is, what matters is the heart". but most likely "don't bother i know it all, i have heard it all before, some day when i am old i will stop". |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Asim |
| 05/08/01 at 14:20:06 |
The best approach would be to ask a sister to befriend her. Such actions do not develop overnight and hence corrective measures will also take time. The sister can invite her to her gatherings, halaqas, etc. If she openly dislikes the new environment then direct dawah can done oherwise let the new environment sink into her and then try to tell her that what she was doing is not correct. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| jannah |
| 05/08/01 at 17:01:57 |
| good advice asim, i'd agree a person's sins are their own, but it is hard to watch another muslim do things which are wrong. so the best approach is to take it nice and easy and try for a little dawah strategy |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| BroHanif |
| 05/09/01 at 04:37:38 |
| A.W.W. Brother Abdullah, my first question to you would be not to judge people, look inside their heart and not judge them from their outward apperance. How do you know that the siter holding hands with the other guy were married to each other or not ?. Now the next point is do you know the guy is muslim or not...??? You don't know so that is your second problem. The third problem is that your blood boils and your gonna kick his head in...??? Now is this really going to bring these people to their senses or are they just going to get the legal authority on your back....??? Get you kicked out of your uni or employment and put you in jail for aggrevated assault, with two guys called Jane and Susan. :) Brother Abdullah, what you need to do is give them dawah, but with love and kindness, believe me this is the only way. Use soft words that melt their heart not harsh so they see you as an enemy. Effective dawah starts from your character and not the way you give lenthy sermons and fatwas. If you have or know of a friend like sister Jannah use her to advise these people and believe me it will work. And believe me I'd rather see a muslim sister who is a Sunni and not belonging to any of those weird sects that Brother Jehad is on about, practicing that act. Why ? its not that I approve an act like fornication but becauase at end of the day she or he hasn't violated the biggest command of Allah and still believes in one allah and the last prophet and has not polluted their Islam i.e. with Shirk. And Allah knows best |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Anwar |
| 05/09/01 at 06:09:49 |
| Aslamu alaikum I have to agree with bro Hanif, hot headedness gets you know where. Also why would you wish to want anyone to be a non-Muslim, qaidiani or ismaili? We should want nothing but guidance for human beings despite the sins they commit. If this desire is absent from our hearts, then our attempt at giving dawah will fail at the very beggining. [quote] Get you kicked out of your uni or employment and put you in jail for aggrevated assault, with two guys called Jane and Susan.[/quote] LOL, just curious but it seems you have met them in person bro Hanif wa salam |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| BroHanif |
| 05/09/01 at 06:38:40 |
| ;-D, lets not start the tongues waggling.!!! Bro Anwar I haven't met em yet and I hope to Allah I or you or any of my muslim bros or sis ever meet them. :) And Allah knows best. |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Anonymous |
| 05/09/01 at 14:06:45 |
| Assalam'alaykum, The fact that the girl has a "muslim" name doesn't mean much to me. There's a whole world of difference between having a "muslim" name and actually be a real muslim (submitted to Allah). So I would start by asking the girl if she's a muslim and then see what's her answer. Wassalam |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| traveller |
| 05/09/01 at 14:10:54 |
| At the end of the day it is Allah (swt) who guides people. If we feel we cannot approach someone the least that we should do is make dua for them and not treat them with harshness. Maybe sometime in the future you will see that same sister practicing her deen InshaAllah. Wasalaam |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Ali |
| 05/09/01 at 15:06:24 |
| assalam alaikum, i once had a similar question for a sheikh, but regarding a brother. he told me that if you see him doing haram, even if he sees you, you should ignore it, and the next time you see him, just smile and give him salams and be cool about it. if you cover other people's flaws, then Allah will cover your own flaws. in fact, he told me a hadith indicating if you cover your brothers faults, then Allah will forgive you your sins, Allah will make you forget that you commited those sins, and Allah will make the people that saw you and even the place itself forget that you commited those sins. so if you don't want to make excuses for her for her own sake, then do it for your own. the prophet (peace be upon him) said that toward the end of time the mu'min would see things that would make his heart melt. so be prepared to see that and worse, but if the hour comes and you are planting a seed... the first line of a fiqh book that i was studying started with a warning to beware of declaring war on the people of la ilaha ila Allah, so be careful. saying the kalimat puts you under the guardianship (talawa) of Allah. since you do not know the sisters situation, its really not wise to feel animosity toward her. basically i think the most effective way is to get the sister in a good circle of friends. however, prepare yourself for no change, or at worst a decline. make sure your niyaa is pure from the outset. our duty is not to make everybody muslim, but to give dawa, and hidaya is from Allah. 'a feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds' - Ibn 'Ataila (1st line of the hiqm) |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| chachi |
| 05/09/01 at 18:09:56 |
Anonymous exactly just because a person has a 'muslim' name dosn't mean they are muslims but i bet you she will think she's an expert on islam some tablighi's went to this turkish student house once where i was studying and this 'turkish' (i say this advisedly because this sort of thing wasn't present in turkish culture even BEFORE islam) girl jumped out wearing a mini-skirt and started swearing at them and shouting how she knew all about islam because her daddy was a imam ( a richly paid government priest no doubt!) personally i think they should change their names like i said in another post i'm happy mocking people who destroy my dignitas by associating me with their actions if your a bad muslim admit it and if your not a muslim don't go round pretending you are |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| chachi |
| 05/09/01 at 18:16:36 |
Ali what you said about accepting people as muslim is true enough but remember what imam abu hanifah said in al-fiqh al akbar which is a brilliant summary of our aqeedah 'we don't call anyone a non-muslims till they say the halal is haraam or the haraam is halal (article 9) thus remember somebody who says the kalimah and then goes around preaching that adultery is halal is a kaafir |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| chachi |
| 05/09/01 at 18:20:05 |
traveller as sheikh Saadi 'the only thing left for a whore to do is repent' what shall we say about somebody who has spent their life destroying others happiness? |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| se7en |
| 05/09/01 at 20:56:59 |
as salaamu alaykum, [quote]'we don't call anyone a non-muslims till they say the halal is haraam or the haraam is halal (article 9) thus remember somebody who says the kalimah and then goes around preaching that adultery is halal is a kaafir [/quote] woah... I think we're getting off topic here... there's a big difference between someone who commits a wrong action and *knows* that they are committing a wrong action, and someone who claims that what they are doing is correct and that Islam is wrong... the first person is a sinner, maybe even a fasiq, but not a kaffir... the second has made a statement that is nawakidul islam, that *undoes* their Islam... there is a *big* difference between the two and there are some serious consequences that come with takfeer... as for the original post... I hear ya bro.. it's hard to see Muslims like that, it really hurts... |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Nazia |
| 05/09/01 at 22:54:33 |
| slm, I think it was Sheikh Hamza yusuf who said... A drunk Muslim is better than a sober disbeliever. wassalam, Nazia |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| Barr |
| 05/10/01 at 06:43:47 |
| Assalamu'alaikum, I'm sorry if this does not relate directly to the thread.. but just some general thoughts... I'm sure many of you would have heard this hadith, with the meanings abt this extent (sorry for I can't remember the exact wordings)... "If U are to see a mungkar, remove it by your hands (power) or by speech or with the heart and that (removing it with the heart) is the lowest of iman" Time is a very crucial factor, I feel. Time to think... time to sort our thoughts out, time to be patient, and time to seek Allah's help, time to help guide and time to be guided. Alhamdulillah, our hearts feel something when we see a mungkar (an act of disobedience to Allah). AT least, we feel something..., at least it shows there is a bit of iman in there... But how we react to the situation would influence greatly how receptive the other party is to our words/ action. It's sad to see that when Allah enjoins us to call people to Islam with hikmah (wisdom) and beautiful words... instead, we judge and label them first, before giving excuses to them and make dua' for them... and know that perhaps, they have not being given the priviledge to see and feel the beauty of Islam, albeit them being born in Muslim families. I think, once we get rid of this labelling and takfir, probably, we can have more humility and patience, empathy... and deal with this with more wisdom, than bursts of emotion.... wallahua'lam P.S> I would agree for a sister to befriend her... and behavioural change is something from within... and that... takes time.... |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| humble_muslim |
| 05/10/01 at 12:56:58 |
| AA As usual, I feel that there is more shock and horror because she is a girl. It seems that most muslims feel very different about men doing bad things and women doing similar bad things. I know I feel that way, Astagh-firullah. So for instance, we judge women without hijab much more harsly than we judge boys chatting up girls. We also need to get priorities right in terms of sinning. If you are a muslim boy or girl who is as pure as the driven snow, but you have never prayed, you are in the eyes of Allah SWT someone very close to not being muslim. If you are a boy or girl who for some reason does "bad" things (such as moonching), but still do not pray, the fact that you do not pray is much, much worse than the bad things. So when giving dawa, one needs to start with the basics (tawheed, salat), and then move onto the details (dress code, etc). Of course, ALL things are important at the end of the day, but without salat, there is nothing. The other thing is to always remember that it is the destiny of Allah SWT that has put you in the position you are in today. If Allah SWT has guided you, and not guided other people, that does not give you the right to be angry with them. Was the Prophet SAW angry with Abu Talib for not accepting Islam ? No, he was actually very sad. At the same time, like another post said, it IS a duty to stop evil. But that duty does not mean getting personally worked up with hatred and anger against the wrongdoers. And Allah knows best. |
| NS |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| jehad |
| 05/10/01 at 13:22:38 |
| Nuns are very pure, but they are cross worshipers. purity is good but it is not enough. |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| humble_muslim |
| 05/10/01 at 13:51:42 |
| AA Jehad, that's exactly what I'm saying : that the fact that a muslim girl is moonching is secondary if she is not praying. |
| NS |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| chachi |
| 05/10/01 at 21:00:48 |
salaam se7en sorry should have made that clear Nazia that is true about a bad muslim but i don't have a problem with muslims who admit that they are bad muslims i have a major issue with people who distort or 'westernise' islam and label other muslims as 'fundamentalists /fanatics ' etc my dad told me this story about how the pakistani navy visited Misr during Nasser's time most of the pakistani navy were pretty outraged to find that there were bottles of alcohol at the mess table and when they queried, this guess what Nasser's boys said? 'you people havn't advanced as much as we have' the pakistani navy got it's revenge by overdoing the chilli's in the food when the Egyptians came to visit I think most people will know of the certain king who during Ramadan went on air and drank cola because he said we don't need ramadan anymore because it's bad for the economy! and they did janaza for this guy! |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| jehad |
| 05/11/01 at 07:18:34 |
| some one who says what Allah has forbiden is good, and what Allah has said is good, is bad is a KAFFAR, i dont mean insanity, ignorents etc, i mean normal circumstanses. Thats why i get so upset when people justifie harram, and attake islamic actions, saying "it will make us look bad to the kaffar". |
| Some good news |
|---|
| tasfiyah |
| 05/11/01 at 06:56:22 |
| Assalamu alaikum Warahatulahi wabarakatuh I was just thinking about how to respond to these posts, when I walked into another lab, and guess what I caught a glance of a sister with a hijab on !! This was not the same sister but another one, whom I had seen on many occassions (without hijab) and I didn't at first know wether she was a muslim or Kaffir! Allahu Akbar !! May Allah(swt) increase her and our iman, forgive our sins and short comings, and keep us steadfast on the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the way of the pious predecessors (salafus salih). http://194.66.45.228 Da'wah wa jihad |
| NS |
| Re: Give us some advice |
|---|
| tasfiyah |
| 05/11/01 at 06:58:00 |
| Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim Assalamu alaikum Warahmatulahi wbarakatuh Alhamdulillah wasalatu wasalam ala Rasulillah Dear respected brothers and sisters in Islam, Jazakallah Khair for all the advice. It was very helpful. wasalamu alaikum |
| NS |
Individual posts do not necessarily reflect the views of Jannah.org, Islam, or all Muslims. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster and may not be used without consent of the author.The rest © Jannah.Org |