Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/12/01 at 11:35:31 |
| usama bin zayd 18 years old , conqueror of syria Muhammad bin Qasim 17, Conqueror of India Tariq bin Ziyad 17 Conqueror of spain Mohammad al Fatih 21, Conqueror of Turkey, Constantinople, and a lot of other places. Saturday 19th may, 3:00 pm Toynbee Hall Commercial ST London E1 |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/12/01 at 13:00:57 |
| My own comment: The area where the talk is happening has a large Bangladeshi community, biggest outside Bangladesh. The area is one of the poorest parts of London, and boys have been known to form gangs, who sell drugs and fight each other. Prostitution is also starting to be present among some girl there. Who are the real gangsters? The kids on street corners who may do a couple of muggings? Or the kufr governments, both in the Muslim world and in the west, who steal from all the people, and slaughter millions. Who should the role modals for our youth be? The gangster singers that the kaffar provide for us on the TV channels that are pumped in to every home. The Fake gangsters who the kaffar tell our sons to look up to and emulate, by doing real crime? Or the real youth of the ummah who I mentioned above. There are many more examples, both in the jihad fields, the Political prisons in the Muslim world of today and the history of before. The forces of kufr who rule the world want boys to grow up as criminals and girls to grow up as prostitutes, that’s why they provide Prostitutes and criminal wannabes as role modals for the youth of the TV channels, films and magazines. The Muslims children of today need to be brought up to be the world leaders and conquarers, not of tomorrow, but of today, while they have their youth. If you look at the age ranges of the sahabah and the Muslim commanders who opened up new lands to the liberation of Islam, they were young. Often younger then the street corner Uncle and Aunty Toms who the Kaffar want us to emulate. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/12/01 at 21:17:32 |
| A.W.W. I agree with you on that one bro, but who is gonna guide our youth to success of this life and the next....??? If the elders don't want to know our kids then have they got a leg to stand on...??? No. And the greatest warriror after prophet muhammed saws, Khalid Bin Walid. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/14/01 at 08:29:53 |
| If the elders who we respect are too incompetent or too unwilling to do what it takes, they no longer deserve our obedience. There are other elders who we can follow. What you are saying is true, in most musjids all kids are taught is how to read Quran in a language they don't understand, they aren't even taught the language of the Quran in the Musjid, instead they are taught languages such as Turkish and Urdo which are completely useless to them in England, and relegates the learning of Islam to a symbol of national identity, not the door way to Jannah and the escape rout from the Nar. So the kids have no knowledge of Islam and its rules, and the aims they should have in life. The source of their aims ends up being the criminal wannabes and prostitutes in Music videos. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Ali |
| 05/14/01 at 09:31:50 |
assalam alaikum, it's true, east London is deteriorating rapidly. drugs and prostitution by bengali and pakistani girls is increasing. the elders have been approached by bengali bros to do something, but they seem unwilling to do anything. every evening the bros get together in east london mosque to discuss the drug problem. i really feel sorry for the bengali kids, coming home from school, they see their older bros driving expensive cars and want to emulate them. i know a bro whose mother is a primary school teacher, and the kids tell her, 'my big brother sells drugs'. something needs to be done. salam wa rahmat'Allah |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Kashif |
| 05/14/01 at 12:48:04 |
| assalaamu alaikum I'm familiar with the East London area and haven't particularly noticed the issue of Muslim prostitutes myself - but then, for some reason, i always happen to miss whats happening in the darker side of society. That aside, [quote]every evening the bros get together in east london mosque to discuss the drug problem.[/quote] I'm certain that we're spending too much time and resources in discussions and talks and other 'impractical' things. With perhaps hundreds of different study circles going on thru'out London every week, its time for those who have been practising for many years to divert a significant part of our resources towards building a proper infrastructure within our communities. What i mean is, instead of spending money towards building Masjid #12718, we need to start investing in youth centres where we can hire professional counsellors to help take the kids off drugs; we need to help establish more Islamic *schools* to minimise the detrimental effect of the society at large on the kids; and we need to setup or support the existing organisations that are providing essential services to the Muslims, e.g. the Muslim Women's Helpline. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/14/01 at 19:08:01 |
| A.W.W. How about if we utilised our sources, energy and time, we could set something up for the people of UK, muslims in particular. In fact I'm sure by your experience and nature we can get something going. I live up in Yorkshire but this dosen;t mean we can't work together. What do you say my bros...??? At least lets post some ideas on how we could tackle this... waht do you think....??? |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Kashif |
| 05/14/01 at 20:26:10 |
| assalaamu alaikum I think it would be better to work within our own communities on the seemingly smaller projects than to expand to much bigger projects which require professional help in setting up. Most of the success stories we here of today have very humble beginnings. For instance, Al-Jumua'ah magazine started off as a one-page newsletter printed between two brothers to only a few hundred people.. look at it now. You have to build links with the youth, with the *elders*, and after that the next best thing to do will present itself. One of the brothers in our local area has built such stong relations with the elders and the Islamic Movement that he is now on the board of three of the main masajid in our locality. Now thats progress! Kashif Wa Salaam PS If you keep your goals realistic, even two people working together can start something beneficial for the community if they work seriously at it. And as time passes people will volunteer to help, or will agree to help at the slightest request, insha'llah. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jannah |
| 05/15/01 at 01:30:59 |
| [quote] I'm certain that we're spending too much time and resources in discussions and talks and other 'impractical' things. With perhaps hundreds of different study circles going on thru'out London every week, its time for those who have been practising for many years to divert a significant part of our resources towards building a proper infrastructure within our communities. What i mean is, instead of spending money towards building Masjid #12718, we need to start investing in youth centres where we can hire professional counsellors to help take the kids off drugs; we need to help establish more Islamic *schools* to minimise the detrimental effect of the society at large on the kids; and we need to setup or support the existing organisations that are providing essential services to the Muslims, e.g. the Muslim Women's Helpline. [/quote] [quote] I think it would be better to work within our own communities on the seemingly smaller projects than to expand to much bigger projects which require professional help in setting up. PS If you keep your goals realistic, even two people working together can start something beneficial for the community if they work seriously at it. And as time passes people will volunteer to help, or will agree to help at the slightest request, insha'llah. [/quote] So true Kashif... those words should be engraved in gold!!! |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/15/01 at 06:43:52 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]You have to build links with the youth, with the *elders*, and after that the next best thing to do will present itself. [/quote] I agree 110% Br Kashif In the world of work it sometimes not *what* you know but *who* you know that helps get things done. A better way of saying it would be "Who do I know who can help me when I'm unsure of a certain subject?" In my experience the most efficient and profecient managers are not necessarily those who *know the most* but the those who *know how to get things done* and part of this involves creating and establishing a network of individuals who you can rely on when the need arises. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Barr |
| 05/16/01 at 09:44:01 |
| Assalamu'alaikum :) [quote]I'm sure by your experience and nature we can get something going. I live up in Yorkshire but this dosen;t mean we can't work together.[/quote] [quote]I think it would be better to work within our own communities on the seemingly smaller projects than to expand to much bigger projects which require professional help in setting up.[/quote] MashaAllah, brothers :) Just my tupence :)... Sometimes, I feel that work in the UK is done in piece meals, and that is where we should learn from one another, co-ordinate and collaborate, and stop starting work from scratch... I think it was in East London that the brothers managed to keep a plot of land of one of the mosques from the council via co-operation with some locals (who are not nec. Muslims - pls correct me, if I'm wrong). And the idea behind that is to find who our [i]Abu Talibs[/i] are... I think we have found common ground with some religious groups, who are as concerned as us with the adverse effects of secularism, and working together can prove to be useful and beneficial, not only to our Muslim community, but the general British society as a whole. And we have to let the general society see and appreciate, that when Muslims become better and practising Muslims, they would benefit too. Ideas such as that have got to be disseminated across the UK... success stories of projects must be shared and learnt by Muslims from other parts of the UK, so that we do not repeat mistakes, but apply tried and tested methods and suit it to our context. Isn't there a quote... which says that the fool makes the same mistake twice, a clever man learns from his mistakes, but an intelligent one would learn from others' mistakes? and I would definitely support for us to focus what we want to do, work within our means, start small, and then expand.... What we sometimes overlook is that we concentrate too much on the [i]hardware[/i] prematurely, before building up the [i]software[/i]... what I mean is that many people agree that we should have youth centres for our youth... but somehow, a picture of a building props to mind. I think that is well and good... but that is just the [i]hardware[/i] which is secondary and if we only stop to that, we are structurally limiting ourselves... whereas, building the [i]software[/i] is doubly important... gather the youths together first, form the trust with the youths...I mean.. like form football teams, fun activities, pull them in... and within that, inculcate values, form halaqas when they're ready for it... We don't even have to have a physical youth centre... but inshaALlah, we have a group of youth, already moulded... the physical centre can come later, much later... and I think this applies to other things that we have strategised to do, inshaAllah, for a multi-prong, co-ordinated approach has to be employed, not just some piece-meals ideas. Another point, I hope... is for us to be more ummah-centric (albeit we're affiliated to an organisation or not), rather than organisation-centric... for we are Muslims and we have the same goals... we do not differ just becoz we belong to a certain organisation... and to see that organisations are just platforms [i](wadah)[/i] for da'wah and to work for the ummah for Allah. If not, I feel, we're again, putting unnecessary limitations upon ourselves.... I have dreams for the UK too, ikhwani.... wallahua'lam :-) |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/15/01 at 11:26:01 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Isn't there a quote... which says that the fool makes the same mistake twice, a clever man learns from his mistakes, but an intelligent one would learn from other's mistakes?[/quote] Really thought provoking stuff Sr Barr You have to be open and mix with other people in order to learn from their mistakes which brings me on to the ummah-centric point. [quote] Another point, I hope... is for us to be more ummah-centric (albeit we're affiliated to an organisation or not), rather than organisation-centric... for we are Muslims and we have the same goals... we do not differ just becoz we belong to a certain organisation... [/quote] I feel we have this tendency of not wanting to open up, both to other Muslims in the area and to the wider community as a whole. This attitude really needs to be worked on and I can only hope this perceived fear is not something our youngsters will inherit. [quote]I think that is well and good... but that is just the hardware which is secondary and if we only stop to that, we are structurally limiting ourselves... whereas, building the software is doubly important...[/quote] Agree totally First plant the seed and then worry about the barn for the produce later. Without one there cannot be the other. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/15/01 at 12:28:20 |
| A.W.W. Sr Barr, you've hit the nail on the head, in short thats what I meant. I think one of the way forward is to harness the internet, I've got a vauge idea on how the above can be acheived. Let me go away and construct my thoughts. Man I'm happy today, happy solely for the ummah that there are people out there who want to make a change for Allah. Allah grant you and me and every muslim success in this life and the nx. A tearful Bro Hanif. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jannah |
| 05/15/01 at 12:46:32 |
| slm, good points sr barr, we have 5 mosques in our area, but do we have any youth groups??? anyone read that book that came out like 10 years ago.. it described a future where the mosques will be empty deserted old buildings, pretty chilling.. Alhamdulillah though we are now well into the 2000's and that vision hasn't come true yet... i see alot of second generation youth trying to do things, but we still have alot of barriers, 1. we are always hesitant to take the lead 2. we have these newfangled ideas that the elders don't like the ideal would be to find a solution between all of us, but it is not working in alot of communities. i think therefore the situation is more desperate and we should just go ahead and put into action our new fangled ideas and ignore the fallout.... |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/16/01 at 18:34:23 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]i see alot of second generation youth trying to do things, but we still have alot of barriers, 1. we are always hesitant to take the lead 2. we have these newfangled ideas that the elders don't like the ideal would be to find a solution between all of us, but it is not working in alot of communities. i think therefore the situation is more desperate and we should just go ahead and put into action our new fangled ideas and ignore the fallout.... [/quote] Thinking out loud here but if you can get the elders to respect you through your actions, behaviour and knowledge, there may be more willing to give you a bit of slack. Once there, do as much as you can and show them what a positive force you can be and if, inshallah, things turn out well, they will quite happily allow you to continue. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| chachi |
| 05/16/01 at 18:40:08 |
Khalid it was Bismark who said 'Only fools profit from experience i prefer to profit from the experience of others' I think the issue of mosque 25656 is a big one in my neck of Yorkshire we've had a mosque being built since the 1970's and theres dozens of other mosques within a mile! First they create mosques then they create the differences between them to justify their own mosque The issue is one of basic community building 1) Form and islamic community with a constitution 2) Nominate groups to handle each of it's affairs..eg a group who's members are experts in human health , doctors etc..a group of muslim teachers..group of muslim lawyers etc who present a yearly report and a five year plan on issues affecting the community 3) these groups then report to a committee made up of elected rulers chosen out of the different groups which allocates resources and funding and allocates muslim action groups consisting of muslim volunteers to work on the projects how does that sound? |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/16/01 at 19:03:36 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Nothing wrong in principle with the 3 step plan Br wahid but you have to get people to buy in to it in the first place and that's tough. Re point #2 there are a few first generation Muslims qualified in these fields but not many so the burden is laid on the second generation. They are coming but probably at not the rate we'd like so its going to take some time. Point 3 is probably the hardest to achieve. Getting Muslims of different groups around the same table can be tough (although not impossible) and then to get them to agree on an overall governing body to implement executive decisions? The way I see it is that alhamdulillah we have the Masjids and now we need to focus our attention on other parts of the infrastructure that we need to develop and grow in this country. Of course this process would be so much easier if we were more united, such that we could learn from each other instead of each Masjid having to go it alone. But that's where we come in. We have to be more co-operative and sensitive to other Muslims from different nationalities and cultures and start developing ties which may be the first generation didn't have time to concentrate on. If at the practical local level we can achieve this, then may be at the greater community, national level we can start to make strides. Just a few thoughts of mine, nothing more. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| chachi |
| 05/16/01 at 19:43:02 |
I don't think we should try to get muslims of different groups around the table ..that approach has been tried and failed for whatever reason some of the group members will try to destroy the project This can be avoided by having open leadership and accountability basically once a decision has been taken you will have 3 choices 1 - accept the decision 2 - reject the decision by voicing reservations but stict to the majority view 3 - leave the whole project essentially you can disagree but you can't act against the decision the project must only have people who agree with it and agree to work together we can reason about merits of joining the project with people concerned individually but not with people who stand as members of their own particular group..thus individuals join the project NOT groups |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/17/01 at 09:30:36 |
| Asalm walakum I think now, this thread has kind of lost the reason I stuck it up, so are you lot coming to that talk on Saturday or not? |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jannah |
| 05/17/01 at 10:25:54 |
| wlm, sorry jehad can't make it. this is probably one of the best threads in the souq, congrats for starting it off! |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/17/01 at 10:29:16 |
| What if i pay for your return ticket? |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jannah |
| 05/17/01 at 10:29:00 |
| i have another speaking engagement sorry...:) |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/17/01 at 10:32:44 |
| i was only joking about paying for the ticket thing,,, i'm really stingy..... |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Anonymous |
| 05/17/01 at 14:07:14 |
| Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmat Allahi Wa Barakatuh, Oh Muslims!!! We always seem happy to be the fastest growing religion on earth...We boast all about it...WHY? Is it doing us any good?...NO! Are we getting anywhere?...NO! Oh well we now have the right to halal meat...GREAT...Yipee Yie Yay!!!...The UN has given us permission!!!! (I am being sarcastic by the way) Where is Islam?...Nowhere to be found!!! Today our belief of Islam is :)(smiling), being polite to Kafirs who are killing children and raping our women and if they are not, then they are letting those who do so to roam free after a couple of years of absolute luxury in Jail. We are happy living in their countries...good isn't it... (I'm also being sarcastic) We are happy with our local mosque that is built next door to the local strip joint...to us that is what we think Islam is all about... Well I have to stand out of the croud IT ISN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Allah Taala says: "And hold-fast ALL of YOU together and do NOT divide" I would like to ask you all: (all the muslims who read this) WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???? Should we hold-fast on to our local Muslim Brothers & Sisters that sell pornography & Alchohol in their newsagents?...Should we unite with them at the local mosque in Soho, London??? I'll let you answer that! Please reply and we will then advance to the next stage...DO NOT JUMP TOO FAR... If you speak of a methodology of uniting the Ummah then speak with the words of Allah and his prophet saaws. Otherwise do as the prophet told you: "Say Khair or keep quiet" This message it addressed to all the sincere Muslims that read it, Assalaamu Alaikum... May we all be guided to Al Firdaus(Paradise). |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jannah |
| 05/17/01 at 15:55:08 |
| anonymous you bring up some good points about numbers and uniting not meaning anything unless it is sincere and according to the quran and sunnah. but really there no need to despair. you said, [quote] Where is Islam?...Nowhere to be found!!! [/quote] There are alot of good Muslims and good things going on out there. I think we should appreciate that and help support those groups/individuals and not discount their efforts. You also said, [quote] Should we hold-fast on to our local Muslim Brothers & Sisters that sell pornography & Alchohol in their newsagents?...Should we unite with them at the local mosque in Soho, London [/quote] I don't know what's in Soho, London but yes we should unite with our brothers and sisters whoever they are. Maybe they commit sins, maybe you do.. are their perfect Muslims living on the earth? I dont really think so. Uniting together does not mean uniting on any person's acts. it means uniting our hearts on Islam so that we become, feel, act as one ummah. this is the only way we can change our condition, and this is according to quran and sunnah. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/17/01 at 17:00:55 |
| jannah soho is a part of london that is full of prostitutes and strip joints etc. it is internationaly known as a for its adult industry. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| chachi |
| 05/17/01 at 19:33:48 |
| Absolutely jannah "Uniting together does not mean uniting on any person's acts. it means uniting our hearts on Islam so that we become, feel, act as one ummah. this is the only way we can change our condition, and this is according to quran and sunnah." Because a muslim does some bad things dosn't mean we should sideline him ..thats the way of the khawareej and look what happened to them..they ended up killing each other! thats why i don't believe any islamic project like i'm proposing should start off by saying do X Y Z since this group is engaged in doing good acts we should hope that the good acts it's members do are counted as thawab by allah (swt) the problem is at the moment we have this situation where there are various groups run by people who's main job is meeting political leaders and eating cake with Blair and co. the project should not engage in supporting any political party nor should it seek to meet political leaders or have contact with them since this inevitably leads to corruption it should stand on it's own two feet and not look for funds from parties or other people who are not members the qualification of membership should be being a muslim and having an educational qualification because we have too many imams in mosques who can't even make their khutba's understood because they can't speak english or speak it very badly |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Barr |
| 05/18/01 at 08:17:48 |
| Assalamu'alaikum, Hmmm... I don't know where to begin? So many things! :) [quote]since this group is engaged in doing good acts we should hope that the good acts it's members do are counted as thawab by allah (swt)[/quote] Agree... :) I think, for one we shouldn't lable anyone or stamp a person ("CONDEMNED") just becoz he has done a misdeed. And sometimes, what I see is that sometimes, people seem to discount the good works of others, just becoz, their manhaj (methodology) is different from us... but both are, inshaALlah, inviting to what is khair... And I think this applies to organisations or members of organisations. Just becoz, a member of the organisation acts a certain way, it colours our perception of them... though it is natural for us to do so... but we also have to bear in mind that we only judge by what we see, while there are other a lot more things that we do not see. Hence, how fair are we, then? Sometimes, an act is done on a individual's own decision, while others' are acts based on musyawarrah (consultation). Hence, some decisions are ijtihadi, that deals with the matters of [i]furu'[/i] (translation?) and not the fundamentals of deen. Therefore, this leads to ... [quote]the problem is at the moment we have this situation where there are various groups run by people who's main job is meeting political leaders and eating cake with Blair and co.[/quote] How is this a problem? Don't you think this can be a strategy? If we look at the prophet's seerah, the best time, where we see a very large expansion of Islam... is not during war time and time of conflicts... but during the peace time... after the treaty of Hudaibiyah between the QUraisy and the Muslims... Yes, eventhough on the surface, teh treaty does not seem favourable to teh Muslims... but due to peace, and certain clasues in the treaty which render more freedom of movement for the Muslims... a LOT of advancements and developments was achieved, alhamdulillah. Applying that back to current time, would it be wrong then, to collaborate with the government? Before I continue any further... I just wanna say that I'm not saying yes or no to whatever organisation that U r talking about. But just trying to rationalise and be objective here. Yes, the government is a non-Muslim government, but how do maximise or optimise the state of us, Muslim minorities in a place like UK? Segregate ourselves and be spiteful enemies? Undermine teh government and replace it? Are we truly ready for that? And if we do want to collaborate.. how do we do that? I think we've really got to contextualise our situation, problem and solution...What are the awlawiyat (priorities) of the ummah? Do we not work with them, just becoz they agree with homosexualism? Sometimes, there would be situations, where co-operation with non-Muslims would be useful for the ummah, as exemplified by the treaty mentioned above... plus... Didn't the Prophet had a non-Muslim ally? ie. Abu Talib? He's not Muslim, but he loves the prophet and would protect him.... Now... where are our Abu Talibs? Are we finding/ developing our Abu Talibs or are we just creating a bigger divide with the general British socety? Plus, when the prophet went out for Hijrah, he employed a non-Muslim guide (I can't remember the name, but he is a servant of one of the sahabahs)... so... why can't we co-operate with them? To me... things are not very simple... things need to be thought through... Ijtihad is about cracking our brains, choosing the lesser of the 2 evils... not a simple... A is good, B is bad. I choose A. So... things are not always what they seem, I guess.... But bottomline... what are we gonna do about our state? Gotta dash, will talk later, inshaALlah wallahua'lam :-) |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/18/01 at 11:29:41 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) There is a danger sometimes of talking and theorising too much and actually achieving nothing. As with everything, we need balance. Its no good rushing headlong with lots of ideas if they haven't been well conceived and too much planning on the other hand may lead to nothing ever being done!! The treaty of Hudaibiyah is definitely an episode which we can learn an awful lot from. As an aside Sr Barr I've heard recently that Singapore has an excellent Mosque administration manual which is used in many Masjids. Know anything about this? |
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| Barr |
| 05/18/01 at 12:27:56 |
| Wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullah :-) [quote] There is a danger sometimes of talking and theorising too much and actually achieving nothing. As with everything, we need balance. Its no good rushing headlong with lots of ideas if they haven't been well conceived and too much planning on the other hand may lead to nothing ever being done!![/quote] Oh dear... I hope I haven't sound so airy fairy. I'm sorry if it does... just voicing out my thoughts, which may be a bit disjointed, it seems. But yes, I'd agree that the most difficult part is putting those theories or concepts into practice, especially when we have to contextualise and be relevant to the realities... and I think it takes those in the UK itself, those whom Allah has given the positions, in their own cirle of influence to chart it out, inshaAllah. [quote]As an aside Sr Barr I've heard recently that Singapore has an excellent Mosque administration manual which is used in many Masjids. Know anything about this? [/quote] Erm... I don't know about an administration manual... I can find it out form my colleagues, inshaAllah.... Plus, I'll also try and find out more on how, alhamdulillah, we manage to get the youths to be active in the mosques... Alhamdulillah, we have the Young Muslim Wings in nearly all of the mosques. Also, now, a lot of youths (I mean, the older ones, usually, mid 20's - late 30's) are in the Mosque Management Board (MMB)... Long gone are the days where the members of these MMBs are made up of only those 60 years and above. But we still have them around, alhamdulillah... it's just that now, it's a good mixture. U know what? An exchange program would be good, wouldn't it? We can learn from U and vice versa, inshaAllah.... :) wallahua'lam :) |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/18/01 at 12:41:48 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote] Oh dear... I hope I haven't sound so airy fairy. I'm sorry if it does... just voicing out my thoughts, which may be a bit disjointed, it seems [/quote] Far from it Sr Barr !!! I was just making the point that talk is good but it needs to be followed by action. Alhamdulillah keep your thoughts coming, I'm sure we all benefit from your insight If you ask me Singapore seems a bit more organised than over here but yes exchange programs and exchange of information in general is a definitely a good idea. |
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| chachi |
| 05/18/01 at 22:43:49 |
| Sorry i should apologize for not making myself clear I'm not saying that we should condemn everybody for meeting Blair and Co when necessary but that the principle is this we shouldn't rely on Blair and co for anything if it happens all well and good but reliance on other than allah is dangerous.. do any of you know the story of the yahood industrialist who gave money to the nazi party in the hope that it would become reliant on him and then he could destroy it by withdrawing funds? by associating ourselves with politicians we get into a dangerous game of involvement in politics..islam is about people and prayer (in the wider sense). the only time we should associate with leaders is when we give them dawah or our interests coincide on a issue and even then caution is necessary The method is very simple people ... agree to help each other to the best of your ability! that is the basis of the formation of the project..we agree to help our members to the best of our ability ..if necessary you can formalize this in some way eg a handshake like i said the project is formed strictly to act for the benefit of muslims IN the country to avoid getting caught up in partisan politics and dispersion of resources |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| jehad |
| 05/19/01 at 11:07:49 |
| asalm walakum hay did any one go, if so whaT happend, i couldent get there, my car broke and i had to fix it. |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| Barr |
| 05/19/01 at 11:38:13 |
| Assalamu'alaikum.... [quote]by associating ourselves with politicians we get into a dangerous game of involvement in politics..islam is about people and prayer (in the wider sense).[/quote] I think that depends on context. Since Islam is about people, than, it'll include politics.... I don't think we're apolitical. But whether we should operate within the political system or without, in secret or out in the open, then I think that is very relative to the context, in which I would agree to your 2nd point. [quote]the only time we should associate with leaders is when we give them dawah or our interests coincide on a issue and even then caution is necessary[/quote] And Br Jehad... I'm sorry... I don't think the 15 hour flight would fit well in my schedule :) Sorry abt your car that broke down :( |
| Re: Muslim youth, Gang leaders or world leaders? |
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| chachi |
| 05/19/01 at 16:17:06 |
sorry Barr i'll rephrase that islam is about people and prayer in the sense that we're not interested in political parties or poltical philosophies of liberal islam or conservative islam we are interested in creating humans from people and not in creating institutions we are interested in that which works and in salat (worshipping allah by doing that which he wants) |
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