Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Anonymous |
| 05/26/01 at 01:31:35 |
| salaam alaikum, I'm in a bit of a mess right now. My family is seriously looking for a guy for me to get married. At first I had no problem with that at all. But now I realize... #1 they don't care for his deen and character (they basically said: "take what u can get" and if I keep being picky that i'll never get married. #2 not only do they not care for the brother's deen they want me to compromise my deen at the same time. I'm muhajaba (alhamdulillah) they all know this but they've asked me to take non-hijabi pictures of myself to show prospective guys. I know this is wrong and refuse to do it, I already told them I won't do this. But they won't leave me alone, I don't know what to do or what to say to them. Unfortunately, they aren't doing things Islamically and don't care to. This is really upsetting and stressful and I don't know how to handle the situation. Any suggestions/tips/naseeha??? JazakAllahu khairun |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| humble_muslim |
| 05/26/01 at 06:09:25 |
| AA According to a tape I heard from Bilal Phillip,s it is permissable for you to show non-hijab photos to prospective suitors. |
| NS |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Mahmoodah |
| 05/26/01 at 06:47:38 |
[quote]AA According to a tape I heard from Bilal Phillip,s it is permissable for you to show non-hijab photos to prospective suitors.[/quote] salam sis, i hav hear that a sis is allowed to take off her nikab but not hijab!!! This guy isnot her mehram, this is y she aint supposed to take hijab off. sis look 4 ur own guy with deen, reject the guy ur parents hav chosen, n if they dint agree with u, then say NO on the day don't force urself to get married to ne1!!! n specially if this person has no deen wa-salam |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Laboogie |
| 05/26/01 at 08:51:51 |
| [slm] [quote]it is permissable for you to show non-hijab photos to prospective suitors.[/quote] So what happens if they decide not to get married? so now this brother knows how she looks like,and God forbidden he talks about it to other brothers....now the whole community knows what the sister looks like, what now? whats the point of her wearing hijab??? I personally dont think I would show non-hijab photos to any man who is not a mahram even if he was going to be "the one"...things happen... |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/26/01 at 09:02:21 |
| slm They are strangers to her, and as far as I know, she doesn't uncover before them. This issue came up elsewhere and I thought I showed the daleel. Does anyone else from the other board remember? ??? |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| se7en |
| 05/26/01 at 09:29:36 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, Hmm.. I think there's a bit of a debate about that. I don't think I would do it, one of the reasons being what bhaloo and Laboogie have brought up about this brother being a stranger to you, having literally no commitment to you until the actual nikaah. But this thread may not be the most appropriate place to discuss this.. Getting back to the original sister's question... I don't know what to tell you. May Allah make things easy for you and grant you khayr. Would your parents be open to *you* finding someone that meets their approval, but has all the good qualities you are looking for? Maybe you can ask some of your friends to look around for you, or even put an ad up, things like that, and find someone that both you and your parents will be happy with? One thing I've seen happen unfortunately is parents that keep pushing and pressuring their kid to get married, so much so that s/he finally relents and marries someone that is not good for them. Remember that *your consent* as a sister is a weapon you've been equipped with to defend yourself against marrying a man you do not want. Be strong sister and do not compromise when it comes to finding a brother who loves Islam. If you can't find the perfect brother, at least find someone that has a desire to improve his Islam and the capacity to become a mu'min. Do not marry someone who has no interest in Islam, because his condition will take a toll on you and affect *your* Islam. Make a lot of dua, and make sure you tell your parents how you feel about these things. Remember that indeed Allah is with those who are patient. May Allah grant you patience and strength! Ameen. wasalaamu alaykum. |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Barr |
| 05/26/01 at 10:23:47 |
| Wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullah :) Dearest ukhti... It does seem pretty dissapointing, when parents feel that way about who our future spouse should be.... [quote]#1 they don't care for his deen and character (they basically said: "take what u can get" and if I keep being picky that i'll never get married.[/quote] But alhamdulillah, Allah gave us the power to choose... but perhaps, we can ask ourselves... which is more important.... getting married to a person without deen, or not being married at all, and yet, be able to maintain our deen. Ukhti, I truly believe Allah's promise, and He said that a good man is for a good woman and a good woman is for a good man. Sometimes, things may seem so bleak and dark, but that is when we have to put our utmost trust in Allah... for He is the one that has the real power to change things and bring the best brother for you, inshaAllah. And so, sometimes, we may be surprised at who our parents may eventually choose. He may be the person that is the best for us. It's just that Allah works in miraculous ways, and in ways that we can't imagine. Upon saying that, it also depends on our own unique situation as well. 2 of my closest sisters got married to brothers who seem to be not as practising as they desire. I'm not saying that we compromise our fundamental criterias... but sometimes, we gotta take a second look at it again and weigh it vis-a-vis our context. For example, honestly speaking, they had to marry brothers whose prayers aren't even stable... some (like their cynic friend - me) may say that they are risking a lot... but to them, it is something that they had to do, and they feel that perhaps, Allah puts them in a position for them, to help make their husbands better Muslims. Plus, their husbands, are actually amongst the best men, that they could marry... hence, what is their choice, then? Alhamdulillah, their husbands turned out to be brothers who wants to be better Muslims, and though the job is difficult for them, but this is their portion.... sometimes, we gotta choose the best amongst what we have... and the best may not fit our original idea and picture.... Personally, I'm not sure whether I can do what they did... but that is their choice... they have weighed a lot of things, and that is their decision... Your decision depends on you. [quote]#2 not only do they not care for the brother's deen they want me to compromise my deen at the same time. I'm muhajaba (alhamdulillah) they all know this but they've asked me to take non-hijabi pictures of myself to show prospective guys. [/quote] I think I have heard/ read that some scholars say that it's allowed. I'm sorry, but I can't provide you with the basis.... However, it depends on how comfortable you are as well. If U're not comfortable with the hijab off, than don't do it. Perhaps, U can do a bargain with your family... ie. agree to show the pictures, but MUST with hijab. Please remember that they are your parents, and at the end of the day, they want the best for you, no matter how strange they seem to show it. Talk to them nicely, and be patient with them. Take one step at a time... but be firm with your principles. In time, Allah would show a way out... Make du'a for Allah to soften your parents hearts and guide them, and add in a du'a fo Allah to bestow you a good brother for you. As much as it hurts us, Allah knows what we feel at the depths of our hearts... and only He knows the pain, and helplessness... But ukhti... turn to Him, and draw closer to Him... inshaAllah, we'll feel the peace within... and I believe, that things would turn out well, inshaAllah... only time will tell. Take care, dearest :-) |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| nehar |
| 05/26/01 at 10:07:52 |
[quote]According to a tape I heard from Bilal Phillip,s it is permissable for you to show non-hijab photos to prospective suitors.[/quote] [slm] i must say i totally disagree!!! can you show evidence 2 this?? If we can show non-hijab pics 2 suitable guys, then as far as i know any guy here on this board could be suitable for me, does this mean i should take my hijab off??? Allah knows best [wlm] nehar |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Marcie |
| 05/26/01 at 13:11:21 |
| As salamu alaykum Sister, Have you thought about talking to your Imam? Maybe he could talk to your parents for you or even help you find a suitable brother insha'Allah. As sister Barr said keep praying to Allah (swt) that he will bless you with a righteous husband. Insha'Allah everything will work out for the best. As salamu alaykum Your sister in Islam Marcie |
| NS |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| BrKhalid |
| 05/26/01 at 15:05:44 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum Sister First of all I’d like to sympathise with your current predicament. It sure is tough when you’re trying to strive in the path of Allah and find that those closest and dearest to you are actually trying to lead you another way. As has been said in the previous posts continue to make dua and especially for your parents such that Allah can guide them to doing what’s right for you. That said, is it possible to gently and kindly remind your parents that one of the reasons you wish to get married to a practising brother is so that *their grandchildren* may grow up to become pious and obedient children. May be say you fear that if you marry wrongly this may be the case and what a sad state of events that would be. The above is only a suggestion and you obviously know how persuasive an argument that would be but I can’t help feeling that if you make them feel that the person you choose will also have an impact on them (in this case via their feelings towards their grandchildren) they may be a bit more considerate in your wishes. May Allah grant you the husband you deserve |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| nehar |
| 05/26/01 at 21:39:50 |
[quote] So what happens if they decide not to get married? so now this brother knows how she looks like,and God forbidden he talks about it to other brothers....now the whole community knows what the sister looks like, what now? whats the point of her wearing hijab??? [/quote] [slm] i couldnt agree less, i think its totally wrong for you to take off your hijab for non mahrams, because at the end of the day if this was allowed, we would have been told to wear hijabs after marriage and not before. [wlm] Nehar |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| SuperHiMY |
| 05/27/01 at 00:22:03 |
So what would happen if someone who was the OPPOSITE of your cultural mix, of a linguistic group your family has never heard of, Eats food sprinkled with spices and herbs your family has only heard and read about in history books, And Dear oh Dear, he just HAPPENS to be a Muslim. A good one. And then you say, Mom, Dad, THIS is the Brother I'm gonna marry...(?) |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Barr |
| 05/28/01 at 06:53:26 |
| Assalamu'alaikum... [quote]I can’t help feeling that if you make them feel that the person you choose will also have an impact on them (in this case via their feelings towards their grandchildren) they may be a bit more considerate in your wishes.[/quote] Hmmm... I've never really thought of that... I think that's cool... put them in the spotlight :) [quote]So what would happen if someone who was the OPPOSITE of your cultural mix [snip] And then you say, Mom, Dad, THIS is the Brother I'm gonna marry...(?)[/quote] Just my thoughts... if Mom and Dad are so particular about a certain characteristic... I'd say... look for a good brother within that framework. Don't go looking for trouble.... True, at the end of the day, we do marry for a person's deen... but we know what our parents are like... some parents would relent.. and some would die b4 letting their daughter marry some ... erm... "alien";). And looking from the extreme, they are not forcing us to marry a non-believer.... In addition, we are also told to maintain good relations with our parents... hence, do find a balance with all of these factors in mind.... And brothers, before proposing, please check that the sister's family is A.O.K with mixed marriages... I've seen too many broken hearts just too many broken hearts to wanna have this repeated again... seriously. wallahua'lam :-) |
| family family family..[sigh] |
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| princess |
| 05/28/01 at 10:32:13 |
| walikumas'salaam warahmatullah :) [quote]#1 they don't care for his deen and character (they basically said: "take what u can get" and if I keep being picky that i'll never get married.[/quote] ok..i know this is gonna sound horrible..(for some of u..) but it works, inshAllah..:) anon: stick to what U want..:) (i can't stress that enough!) almost to the point where u're comin off stubborn :) i agree with someone here who said, work around the character frame..i can imagine pressure being applied..especially, when in ur parents eyes, the guy is just dandy :thumbsup: if it starts to get really bad; get other members of ur family involved..preferably someone local.. don't call ur aunt in new zealand..she can't help u as much as ur uncle who lives down the street :) (this REALLY works ;) :)) [quote]#2 not only do they not care for the brother's deen they want me to compromise my deen at the same time. I'm muhajaba (alhamdulillah) they all know this but they've asked me to take non-hijabi pictures of myself to show prospective guys.[/quote] ahh..this sounds familiar :) [sigh] let it be known, this isn't because ur parents don't care about u wearin hijab, it's because, they think it hinders u getting proposals.. if it gets bad..don't take ANY pictures :) that'll set em straight :) or like move in all of them..so they r all fuzzy..;) :) also, someone here said about getting ur local imam involved..i don't agree with that..if the parents aren't really with it about islam (for lack of better words..sorry) then they really aren't gonna care about what the imam has to say..(that made sense, i hope :)) again, i stress on the getting some other members of ur family involved..uncle, grandmother, aunt, brother, sister, any bro/sis-in laws u may have :) ok, inshAllah, something i've said made sense enough to help u..i hope inshAllah, u aren't pressured into doing anything u don't want to do, or that u aren't comfortable doing :) i shall make some madd du'a's :) later langur ;-D |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| kiwi25 |
| 05/29/01 at 14:40:03 |
| salaam, anon - i pray that inshallah things will work out for you, and to everyone personally i wouldnt show my hair to any of my siutors but our local imam once said in a marriage seminar that u are allowed to show your hair to your suitor once you make it final that your engaged and when your absolutley sure he has good deen (so that he wouldnt talk about ur looks to others) also, he said that u can show him your hair but not if he is going to make the desicion to marry you by looking at it , if any of my information is wrong may Allah(SWT) forgive me but this is what i have been told, wasalam nouha |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| SuperHiMY |
| 05/30/01 at 00:25:15 |
Sheeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhh you Muhajjibah sisters are sooo slow on this one!! Back when I was a child, Attending Saturday and Sunday School at Toronto's Jami Masjid, During Break time, we 7 and 8 and 9 and 10 year brothers not only ran around the basement of the masjid making a hullabaloo, But we compared notes and guesses and wonderings on what colour all the sister's hairs were! Somewhere into my second year attending Class, on a Sunday morning if I recall properly, We boyz concluded, that all we hadda do was look at a sister's eyebrows and we could deduce their hair colour! The sisters kept on their hijab. We broke no rules. And our curiosity was solved. We went back to running around the basement. Your bro in T.O. (toronto ontario) ~ HiMY! ~ |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| jehad |
| 05/30/01 at 10:37:59 |
| Asalm walakum There is dalal for a sister showing her hair and in some opinions other parts to a suitor. There are hadith on the issue, I don't want to go in to this, so ask a alim, if you want more info about it, it is well known. The issue of the photo is different, cause the people in the shop where you get it developed will see you, and what makes you think other non muhram wont see your pics when you give it to him? What I want to go in to is a PRACTICING sister marrying a non practising brother. This is very dangerous, because men are bigger and stronger then women. He might use his strength to take your deen away from you. And what kind of example will he be setting for your children you have with him? If he does not practice Islam him self, how will he bring your kids in to Islam. Another issue is escaping from the marriage if it is hell. Men can easily get divorced, women cant. You might get stuck in a hellish marriage with no way out. Women need a judge to get divorced when the man refuses to give it, and now that khilafah is destroyed where will you find one of them? Another issue is if the marriage ends in divorce you will no longer have your virginity, and a lot of brothers find it vary hard to marry some one with out that. So if you marry him because you want to "take what you can get", marrying him might mean what you can get is a lot less, due to you giving your self to some one you will probably divorce soon after. |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/30/01 at 11:01:32 |
| slm [quote] There is dalal for a sister showing her hair and in some opinions other parts to a suitor. There are hadith on the issue, I don't want to go in to this, so ask a alim, if you want more info about it, it is well known. [/quote] I am not aware of this being well known or if this is even a valid view. Which of the 4 schools approved of a suitor seeing the hair or other parts? Let me show you what the scholars have said. There are texts which indicate that it is permissible to look at a woman for the purpose of marriage as follows: From Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘If one of you proposes marriage to a woman, if he can look at her to see that which will encourage him to go ahead and marry her, then let him do so.’ I proposed marriage to a young woman, and I used to hide where I could see her, until I saw that which encouraged me to go ahead and marry her, so I did so.’” According to another report he said, ‘a young woman of Bani Salamah. I used po hide from her, until I saw that which encouraged me to go ahead and marry her, so I did so.” (Saheeh Abi Dawood, no. 1832, 1834) From Abu Hurayrah: “I was with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when a man came and told him that he had married a woman of the Ansaar. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Have you seen her?’ He said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Go and look at her, for there is something in the eyes of the Ansaar.” (Reported by Muslim, no. 1424; and by al-Daaraqutni, 3/253 (34)) From al-Mugheerah ibn Shu’bah: “I proposed marriage to a woman, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Have you seen her?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Look at her, because it is more fitting that love and compatibility be established between you.’” According to another report: “So he did that, and he married her and mentioned that they got along.” (Reported by al-Daaraqutni, 3/252 (31, 32); Ibn Maajah, 1/574) From Sahl ibn Sa’d (may Allaah be pleased with him): “A woman came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I have come to give myself to you (in marriage).” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) looked at her closely, then he lowered his head. When the woman saw that he had not made a decision about her, she sat down. One of his Companions stood up and said, O Messenger of Allaah, if you do not want her, then marry her to me…’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 7/19; Muslim, 4/143; al-Nisaa’i, 6/113 bi Sharh al-Suyooti; al-Bayhaqi, 7/84) The sayings of the scholars on the extent to which one may look at one’s fiancee Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “If he wants to marry a woman, he is not allowed to see her without a headcover. He may look at her face and hands when she is covered, with or without her permission. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent…’ [al-Noor 24:31]. He said: ‘The face and hands.’” (al-Haawi al-Kabeer, 9/34). Imaam al-Nawawi said in Rawdat al-Taalibeen wa ‘Umdat al-Mufteen (7, 19-20): “When (a man) wants to marry (a woman), it is preferable (mustahabb) for him to look at her so that he will have no regrets. According to another view, it is not preferable but it is allowed. The first view is correct because of the ahaadeeth, and it is permitted to look repeatedly, with or without her permission. If it is not easy to look at her, he may send a woman to check her out and describe her to him. A woman may also look at a man if she wants to marry him, for she will like in him what he likes in her. What is permissible for him to look at is the face and hands, front and back. He should not look at anything else.” Abu Haneefah permitted looking at the feet as well as the face and hands. (Bidaayah al-Mujtahid wa Nihayyat al-Muqtasid, 3/10) “It is permissible to look at the face, hands and feet, and no more than that.” Ibn Rushd also quoted it as above. Among the reports from the madhhab of Imaam Maalik: He may look at the face and hands only. He may look at the face, hands and forearms only. A number of reports were narrated from Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him), one of which says that he may look at the face and forearms. The second says that he may look at what usually appears such as the neck, calves and so on. This was quoted by Ibn Qudaamah in al-Mughni (7/454), Imaam Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah in Tahdheeb al-Sunan (3/25-26), and al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari (11/78)… The reliable opinion in the books of the Hanbalis is the second opinion. From the above, it is clear that the majority of scholars say that a man is allowed to look at his fiancée’s face and hands, because the face indicates beauty or ugliness, and the hands indicate the slimness or plumpness (literally, ‘fertility’) of the body. Abu’l-Faraj al-Maqdisi said: “There is no dispute among the scholars that he is permitted to look at the face.. the focus of beauty and the place at which one looks.” |
| NS |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Laboogie |
| 05/30/01 at 13:35:21 |
| [slm] [quote]We boyz concluded, that all we hadda do was look at a sister's eyebrows and we could deduce their hair colour! [/quote] Thats a good one, but keep in mind that sister's dye their hair and what about the texture of the hair?? could you tell if it was curly, straight,etc....uhmmmm ;) |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Saleema |
| 05/30/01 at 16:36:17 |
| and in some opinions other parts to a suitor. What other parts??? Get real. Oh by the way himy, that was very funny!! :D [wlm] Saleema |
| Re: How would u handle this...[Family doesn't care about deen] |
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| Spring |
| 06/01/01 at 09:15:17 |
| [slm] Dear sister anon, I know its difficult, sometimes with these issues. But I just wanna reiterate whats already been said. Place your trust in Allah above all. He never ever lets us down. Also, sometimes our parents can surprise us in how much they do understand us. Talk to them and try to explain where you are coming from. |
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