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Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
Sonny
06/30/01 at 00:29:46
! I had such an awful time at the mosque today...really.  I had the full recollection of some of the reasons I had originally decided, after my first shahada, to quit Islam. It was a numberof things. The Iman had preached a service on why it is every muslims duty to hate Jews and Judaism and drive them out of Israel. Sort of like, kill them where they stand.  Well, anytime someone tells me to hate certain selected people to show the world gods love, I have a problem with this. I see very little difference between the Isreal/Palestine thing, the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, and the Hutu's and the Tutu's, if anyone remember's them. I am sticky about killing someone in order to demonstrate god's love to the world. I remember that sermon, and I recall that I never went back. And this cow thing you people have going. Take the bull of Iran as your basic example. That would be the Shah, correct? Which would mean that the most obvious target of the Cow jokes would be his wife? If she marries him, then she's some kind of stupid cow, and if she doesn't that is because she is a stupid cow. I would like to hear now about your code of honor. There is one, I presume? I had mentioned this poor example to one muslim girl once, and she said, "oh, that's what's nice about Islam. You can say whatever you feel like about anyone you want to, anytime, and if they don't like it you just say 'Whom Allah misguides no one can guide...and like, presto! You're forgiven! It's not a sin, isn't that great!" I had replied, "Well, we all vote our concience here in the U.S. You do what you do, and I will plan to do my thing elsewhere without it." I did not then speak to her for quite a long time. Now that I remember why, I am tempted to cut her lose again. What made me think of it, I suppose, was running into a girl who is getting married to a muslim man, and she is madder than heck. I recognize that anger. She looked like she felt trapped. Some men, you know, bite on and never let go. Kind of reminds me of a story I heard of a pit bull that bit this dog, and the owner beat the pit-bull over the head with a cast iron skillet, but the brute would let go and didn't have the sense to die, so the old, um, farmer, just kept hitting him. There they stand for all eternity, I guess. As for all the rules and do's and don'ts, a rule for this, a hadith for that, a prayer for every occasion...it sounds positively obsessive compulssive at times. And then when true life crises do occur, as they alway's do, such as murder's, rapes, incest, alcoholism, drug dependencies...the whole plethora of sayings kind of vaguely, oh, I don't know, crumbles into the mists and hot air, and those people in hard circumstances are just like everybody else in the world...without answer's and some kind of holy system that is just kind of silent about it. It's all good until you really NEED help, and God turns quiet. Then you're on your own like everybody in every faith everywhere. Then you have to do the best you can and hope for the best. That's about every religion. They all share it in common. How cynical and jaded of me. As a matter of fact, I thought I had taken my shahada, when I got to the mosque, they said "no, you have to say it in Arabic, in front of two witnesses." I said, "o.k." Allah doesn't speak English? Or does he just refuse to help those who say "I need help," if they don't speak arabic? Is it he cannot speak my language or does he refuse? Those were my thoughts when I last left Islam. I thought to deal with them right away, so that IF I take my shahada, in arabic, with witness, Insha'allah, it will not be a lie. Sonny

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the be
jannah
06/30/01 at 01:25:39
salam sonny, just a few comments on what you said: [quote] The Iman had preached a service on why it is every muslims duty to hate Jews and Judaism and drive them out of Israel. Sort of like, kill them where they stand.  [/quote] Hmm did the Imam say "Kill them where they stand" or did he just talk about the situation there? I think people are very emotional about what goes on there. The Muslims are being slaughtered and oppressed and that is by the very witness of objective non-muslim humanitarians. I think he has a right to talk about what goes on there to inform other Muslims and encourage them to FEEL something or try to DO something to help Muslims who are suffering elsewhere in the world. [quote] I have a problem with this. I see very little difference between the Isreal/Palestine thing, the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, and the Hutu's and the Tutu's, if anyone remember's them.[/quote] True there are oppressed people all over the world. [quote] I am sticky about killing someone in order to demonstrate god's love to the world. [/quote] Hmm I don't know why anyone would say that? Killing an innocent person is very grave in Islam, it is the 2nd MAJOR SIN out of all the sins. The only time killing is allowed is when you have to defend your families, homes and Islam. "Killing for God" is an alien concept to Islam. [quote] And this cow thing you people have going. [/quote] I have absolutely no idea what this cow thing you're talking about is? Maybe someone else can  help. [quote] I had mentioned this poor example to one muslim girl once, and she said, "oh, that's what's nice about Islam. You can say whatever you feel like about anyone you want to, anytime, and if they don't like it you just say 'Whom Allah misguides no one can guide...and like, presto! You're forgiven! It's not a sin, isn't that great!"[/quote] That is not part of the Quran and Sunnah. You can't say anything you want about anyone. There's something called backbiting. There's something called slander. There's something called lying. When you insult that person you taking away their rights and on the day of Judgement you will be asked about it.  As for "whom Allah misguides no one can guide" that is true..but what does that have to do with anything?? and why she thinks it's magic words like ala peanut butter sandwiches I don't know... [quote] I had replied, "Well, we all vote our concience here in the U.S. You do what you do, and I will plan to do my thing elsewhere without it." [/quote] The problem is that human beings are subjective, what they feel is right or wrong is subjective to the times they live in, their circumstances, the era, their history. That is why it is better to understand what is right and wrong from our creator ourself instead of muddling through life trying to figure it out on our own. [quote] What made me think of it, I suppose, was running into a girl who is getting married to a muslim man, and she is madder than heck. I recognize that anger. She looked like she felt trapped. Some men, you know, bite on and never let go.[/quote] She has the right to refuse to get married to him. If she's so angry about it she should do something. [quote] Kind of reminds me of a story I heard of a pit bull that bit this dog, and the owner beat the pit-bull over the head with a cast iron skillet, but the brute would let go and didn't have the sense to die, so the old, um, farmer, just kept hitting him. There they stand for all eternity, I guess.[/quote] Classic humanity. The truth keeps hitting us, what's right keeps hitting us but we still forget or commit sins and make mistakes. But then God said that He wouldn't have it any other way. He likes it when we repent for mistakes we made. If we were angels or sinless people he would replace us with those who make mistakes and repent for them. I guess that is true humanity. We think about our actions before and after instead of just performing whatever we want. [quote] As for all the rules and do's and don'ts, a rule for this, a hadith for that, a prayer for every occasion...it sounds positively obsessive compulssive at times. [/quote] Umm that's what guidance is....that's what following God is...if you don't want any rules or ideas about what's good to say on a specific occassion or how to be a good person do what you want. No one forces anyone to do anything. It's a human beings choice. [quote] And then when true life crises do occur, as they alway's do, such as murder's, rapes, incest, alcoholism, drug dependencies...the whole plethora of sayings kind of vaguely, oh, I don't know, crumbles into the mists and hot air, and those people in hard circumstances are just like everybody else in the world...without answer's and some kind of holy system that is just kind of silent about it. [/quote] I think that's untrue.. you just mentioned how "obsessive-compulsive" all this guidance is for all these occassions and happennings. Maybe some people just aren't following them and that's why they think their 'holy system' is silent about it. [quote] It's all good until you really NEED help, and God turns quiet. Then you're on your own like everybody in every faith everywhere. Then you have to do the best you can and hope for the best. That's about every religion. They all share it in common.[/quote] That's not true for Islam. God does help us when we are in neeed. We ask and he HEARS. God does NOT leave us to our own devices and forget everything in this world. How can one say that about God? Who is God then anyway? Just a Creator? God is more than that in Islam. He is the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate, the Best Forgiver, the Most Just etc. You may be asking "Why does God not answer our prayers sometimes" and that's a whole other question. There may be many reasons, maybe what we ask for is harmful for us, maybe it is not the time for us, maybe what we go through is a test for us... You may be asking "Why do bad things happen to good people and God does "nothing"" For that matter why do good things happen to bad people? These are all questions humans ask, but as humans we are limited in our understanding we can't know EVERYTHING, we don't know every eventuality, we don't know every wisdom, this is where one's faith in God appears. Do you trust God? Do you believe he is Wise and Good? Then how can you even believe in those questions? [quote] How cynical and jaded of me. As a matter of fact, I thought I had taken my shahada, when I got to the mosque, they said "no, you have to say it in Arabic, in front of two witnesses." I said, "o.k." Allah doesn't speak English? Or does he just refuse to help those who say "I need help," if they don't speak arabic? Is it he cannot speak my language or does he refuse? [/quote] Can you translate deja vu or ala carte or je ne sais quois? You could but it loses it's true meaning and beauty..that's why those words stay intact in other languages. It's not that God can only speak Arabic.. again...what kind of God do you believe in? I believe in a God that created all humanity, all peoples, and all languages. So of course people can make their prayers in any language. God hears. But why Arabic? Why are our prayers in Arabic? Why is the Quran preserved in Arabic? Why do people memorize everything in Arabic? Arabic is intranslatable. People try but it's beauty, clarity and simplicity can't be matched. These are the very words God sent down IN ARABIC. These are the very words the Messenger of God spoke. If we translated it would it mean the same? Dont' some things change? Isn't this the mistake of people's before us who translated and translated and translated until the original was no more? You could say the shahadah in English but does it really have the same meaning? Sometimes things get lost in translation. If someone says they believe in God does that mean they believe in the One and Only God with no partners? Christians say they believe in God but they also believe Jesus was his son. So really they could say the first part of the shahada in english "I believe there is no god but God" but one who says it in Arabic is saying I don't believe there is anything worthy of worship except Allah --with all the connotations Allah has, a different concept than just "God". [quote] Those were my thoughts when I last left Islam. I thought to deal with them right away, so that IF I take my shahada, in arabic, with witness, Insha'allah, it will not be a lie.[/quote] I think you are good to question. The things that don't seem right to you end up being things that are not part of Islam. Things you aren't comfortable with have explanations in Islam. It is just a matter of learning more and more of what Islam truly says about things. It's beauty and wisdom comes through but you have to dig in beyond the surface. I hope that helped. Take care. May God Allah :) guide us all to what is Good.

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
eleanor
06/30/01 at 07:55:01
slm Just a short note: you don't have to take Shahada in a mosque with two witnesses. It's enough to say it to yourself and to mean it and truly believe in it in your heart. The cow thing? That's just a joke because most of the board come from Albanyia (aka cow town) which is a rural town I think, and are teased about it. It has no serious philosophical background. It's all just very light-hearted and not meant to be taken seriously. I didn't really get the relevancy of your reference to Iran..maybe you could explain it again. (I can be pretty slow sometimes..) Speaking as a convert, I get what you're saying about all the rules etc being a bit obsessive. For me it's the same at times. But the thing you have to remember is that Islam is a deen. A way of life, not just a religion. Allah created a way for us to live our lives, he didn't just put us down here and say "okay, have fun, see you every Sunday in my place!". It's an all-encompassing and inclusive way of life that you choose, when you choose Islam. And sometimes I feel a bit suffocated too. As for Allah deserting us in times of need..that isn't true, in my understanding of the matter. It's during the hard times that he is closer than ever, just don't shut him out. Did you ever read the short story/prose called "footsteps"? If not I'll post it up here. Don't worry about the Arabic! I can't speak Arabic either! I just learned off by heart what I need to pray and a few calimas (short prayers/phrases). Allah will reward you for the struggle you make to learn it! AND you can read it off a sheet of paper if you like! Okay, so this wasn't a short note but I hope I said something relevant and helpful. Insha Allah once the rest of the crowd get on the case you'll get more answers! Take care Sonny, I'm thinking of you, wasalaam eleanor

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
Anik
06/30/01 at 08:16:06
asalaamu alaikum Sonny, listen man, if you read my post just days ago about asking questions, you would see you are not alone in asking questions... I think some of the stuff you ask questions God's existence itself, rather than Islam compared to other religions... see, I think you are (and I was as well) getting the expectation wrong... we can still feel UNHELPED in this world, because Allah Subhana doesn't just explicitly talk to you and you don't see Him... to tell you the truth, sometimes I feel like to talk to another believer isn't a good thing... talk to a skeptic and a believer so you get the whole picture. The thing I told myself was, if I put Islam to the sceptic's test, It should pass... completely. It has to if it says what it is... it's okay, you know, to put that condition on it... don't believe something because someone else put it in a nice way... I as well had a problem understanding why the shahada is said in Arabic... If the speaker doen't understand the language, what's the use, I asked? If you want the correct meaning, how logical is it to say it in a language that is completely alien to you? I wondered, is that some sort of a cultural bias? A unification tool? And you know what, it may be... the way I see it is that it ensures stability... after all, there are duas you can make in English... until you learn the meaning and way to pray in Arabic, you can pray in English or any toher language... hmmm... but that is an interesting point that struck me so much... your questions are the EXACT let me tell you EXACT same as mine... the only thing is, I am still a muslim. You might recall my post on QUESTIONING a few days ago... (didn't recieve much response to that; actually none of my posts do lol... guess maybe I'm asking dumb questions) I wish I could just write down a list of questions... sometimes I thought to poke so many holes into my belief... people say it's wrong to ask for the sake of argument, but the truth should be durable enough to stay intact from a few cynical and skeptical questions, no? But the important thing is also not only to be scekptical, but to try to understand and believe...   for me, it saves my imaan. opinions anyone? asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
farah
06/30/01 at 09:41:22
As salaamu alaikum I have had many of the same doubts as a revert. Let's face it: Muslims are human and imperfect.  Sometimes Imams will say things they shouldn't. Some Muslims backbite.  Some Muslim men mistreat their wives. Some Muslims ARE compulsive, elevating rituals over belief, and outside appearances over compassion and brotherhood.  It is very strange that we often speak of kaffirs and how much they want to turn Muslims away from Islam.  There's very little talk of Muslims who turn other Muslims (esp. reverts) away from the deen by their questionable actions and funky attitudes. When I feel that some new foolishness or cruelty on the part of certain Muslims is shaking my faith, or when I read a scholarly treatise by a sheikh that doesn't seem "quite right", here's what I do: I go back to the source.  I pick up my Qu'ran and I read.  The whole world is explained in that one book.  Amazing! :-) The Qu'ran is Allah's (subhana wa ta'ala) blueprint for us.  It outlines the essence of Islam. Insha'allah, this can work for you, too. Farah

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
Sabr
06/30/01 at 09:56:04
Assalamu 'alaikum! My feelings exactly! I think especially for converts, and even born Muslims who have been away from the deen for a very long time, all have their questions... And most of these questions test one's strength of their faith...but with every test and hardship, Muslims will always say "Alhamdulillah!" because we know that there is a blessing with every test! [quote]"...This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored. (27:40)[/quote] I can't remember what book I found it in, maybe someone knows, but this author suggested that there are 4 rewards for very hardship. - God would never give us anything that we could not handle (carry a burden we could not bear): so we should be thankful - with very test, we also find a lesson: so we should be thankful - every test brings us closer to God, and makes our imaan grow (because at the peak of every hardship, that is the time where we turn with the most faith and conviction toward God): so we should be thankful - out of every hardship comes something good: so we should be thankful! So I really don't think that "God turns quiet whenever we need help"...and as was mentioned earlier, I also think that He's right there, looking out for us...carrying us when the hardship is at its worst... As for the questioning...it IS better to question and understand than to have blind faith. I think a lot of people suffer from mild to extreme forms of "convertitis" (a horrible condition that produces super-Muslims, that inevitably become 'burnt-out' too quickly) simply because we all have different ideals and perceptions and expectations. For myself, I was so excited to be going back to school last Sept., simply because I would be able to practice my religion freely, and because I would be surrounded by "perfect Muslims"!  Needless to say, it was a horrible shock to my faith when I saw that many Muslims would rather hang out within their own cultural groupings (or educational discipline groupings), than with other Muslims....some would even go so far as to avoid other's gazes if a "salaam" was offered: people ashamed to be Muslim! So my faith plummeted and I began question every aspect of Islam: from language to the Houris to FGM to predestination! I also had to learn that being Muslim does not give you a free pass to perfection.  We are all human and prone to mistakes.  We are also at different levels and stages of faith, knowledge, and understanding. Alhamdulillah, after that hardship, I emerged more knowledgeable in Islam, and with a stronger faith! Islam is a way of life...and there is a quote from the Qur'an, a tradition of the Prophet (saw) for every occasion...because Islam is complete.  And yet, living in absolute submission to our Creator is the simplest of actions. And it seems that some of the problems you are coming up against are culturally-based (the cow thing...angry engaged Muslimah), not problems with Islam. So Sonny, I pray that Allah guides you along the Straight Path! May he bless you and guard you from evil...and may you grow stronger in faith and in your love for God. ~Ameen fee amanillah, ~Sabr.

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
meraj
06/30/01 at 12:18:05
slm, [quote] The Iman had preached a service on why it is every muslims duty to hate Jews and Judaism and drive them out of Israel. Sort of like, kill them where they stand. [/quote] sonny, i understand what you mean here.. we had a similar situation here not to long back where a certain person gave the khutba for three weeks in a row, and (this is not an exageration) every single time, he gave the same basic message... jews are the devils agents on earth and we should hate each and every one of them... he repeatedly cursed them for about 45 minutes each time. i dont know about others, but i personally got absolutely NOTHING out of those khutbas. yes of course we should feel anger towards the actions of the jews towards our brothers and sisters because Alah has commandes us to.. but standing there and just cursing them and just spewing a bunch of unnecessary anger for that long has no good use in my eyes. Allah knows best.

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
meraj
06/30/01 at 12:20:03
slm, oh and welcome aboard farah.. enjoy your stay inshallah.. and give an intro in the bebzi stand :) - the welcoming wagon ;-D

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
bhaloo
06/30/01 at 13:30:31
slm Wow, a lot of interesting questions here that need to be addressed, Eleanor and Jannah provided some good explanations, alhumdullilah. I'm in a hurry myself, but as for the issue of Jews, and other non-Muslims, see the Quran 60:8-9. Dr. Siddiqi (President of the Islamic Society of North America [ISNA]) said: Muslims should be friendly to all people of all faiths, races, colors and nationalities. Islam is the religion of good relations with all human beings. Allah says in the Qur'an, "Allah forbids you not those who did not fight you on account of your religion and did not expel you from your homes that you show them kindness and deal justly with them. Indeed Allah loves those who are just. Allah forbids you only those who fought you on account of your religion and who expelled you from your homes and who helped others to drive you out. Whosoever makes them friends, such are the wrong-doers. (al-Mumtahinah 60:8-9) In friendship with others Muslim should not forget their own religious principles and should not compromise in the matters of their faith. Also Islam forbids making friendship or alliances with non-Muslims in order to fight other Muslims. ;========================================== Maybe I'll post the tafsir from Ibn Kathir on these verses.  But there is nothing wrong in having non-Muslim friends providing they are not fighting you.   Meraj that is sort of suprising this khatib said this.  What would he say to the Muslim men that have married Jewish women?  That they hate their wives? ???
NS

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
meraj
06/30/01 at 13:58:30
slm, arshad, AllahuAlam.. i dont know because alhamdulillah this person has left the community now. but it was wrong nonetheless what he said during those khutbas. anyhow, i wont say anythign else about that now :)

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
Sonny
06/30/01 at 17:47:22
Just to all of you, Thank-you so much for your kind and thought-ful replies.  It is very good of you not to critisize me for such an angry, tempermental outburst.  I have some kind of problem with anger/temper tantrums, and I don't really understand it myself. The anger just sort of comes, floods over me, and when it's gone, it's gone. But not for good, later on, the same thing happens.  I try to manage with it as best I can, but it's my personal flaw or weakness. Gosh, one hears cow jokes from all sorts of people, from all over the world, mostly muslims. The reason I hate them is for some reason that I happened once to meet the Shah, and he loves those darn jokes, and I intensly dislike this person. Some people are a little amazed at the intensity of my hatred for him, which is purely personal. So anyhow, thank you for your kind and tolerant responses.  I have no intention of leaving Islam for those reasons, and I feel you have shared very valid information and insight.  I am learning as I go, and trying not to let my moodiness get the best of me.  It has nothing to do with you, it's just a weaknesss I have, that I try to cope with. And thanks for your feed-back.  I appreciate it.  --Sonny

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
amatullah
07/01/01 at 13:29:21
Bismillah and salam, Sister sonny I sure am glad you wrote the last post, as I was trying hard not to post because you were unfair. I love you in Allah and I am no better than you, I am full of flaws. But I don't want to do what a lot of Muslims being appologetic for our lack of trust in jews and hate to the israeli state. We have enough reason and evidence up to this day giving the right to feel that way. I find it alot of times Muslims don't support other Muslims (she's an at home mom instead of doing dawa'a when nothing is wrong with that or here we don't dislike jews to make it appeal to new muslims). If you have the information, you too will understand. Some wars you mixed up saying to demonstrate God's love. That is not what is happening it is the oppressed taking arms the same means used against them if not way less. As well, When we are fighting for the sake of Allah there is a huge books on it the whys and hows and so much information that is lacking in the analysis that would really help you understand. We never supposed just go rage war on someone to force them into islam. There is a simple lecture by Alshareef called why the jews were cursed. Every prayer in Alfatiha we ask that we take a different path. We are bombarded in the media and everywhere with their lies and I am so appreciative when a brother goes up in the mosque and reminds me of the truth and let me know i am sane. all the refugees and family of martyrs and whoever else is suffering can relate. 58.22 Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Success. The other point that seemed to bother me a lot is that the people who remember Allah and his prophet alot are the ones that disappear in times of need. And in all fairness (and compulsion), this has been mentioned that some people will think those who remember Allah day and night to look crazy by our beloved prophet. But this is ok with me. However, my experience is the opposite. And what I see around me is positive. Let me tell you what I see in my brothers and sisters here ok? This boy who is studying in the uni is very sick and he wasn't a mosque going boy. Guess who is at his side right now? NOt only that, the hospital is moving him to another province with better equipment for a bigger surgery, a hafiz is the one that is leaving everything behind here and following him in the bus to be at his bedside in this new city! What else I see? My friend had a baby boy masha'Allah, we are making her food and helping hre get some sleep. A woman who didn't come to the masjid alot had back surgery, wallahi I never saw any one other than the mosque going sisters there to visit her and make dua for her. A family having bad times, the mosque exec. gave them a money.  A new revert (even though born muslim) is planting and fixing up the mosque on his own accord. I think not everything is easy to see. alot of times people do things in secret so as not to ruin the rewards but it doesnt mean they are disappearing. And if you are the one who in need sister, reach out. I swear to you when my husband was in another province, he saw young men go around whenever they had a chance to houses and say please if there is anything i can do or get ofr you or anything to help, don't deprive me! that is because the people who help others pass teh sirat mustaqeem like a blink or thunder. I didn't understand some parts like what the girl what saying or the cows. But you are right about having to do shahada in arabic. Maybe it is a big deal to a new revert, but you know sister honestly eventually insha'Allah you will want to learn some arabic to learn quran properly. Many people LIVE the Allah said and the prophet said. God does not turn quiet, and he is not in need of me or you. He has his own ways of showing, are your eyes open though? I am glad to hear you are dealing with all this, trying to be steadfast in your faith and trying to improve yourself. May Allah give you baseera and reward you for your intention on dealing with such huge issues in order to strengthen your faith.

Re: Just a couple of questions; slightly political, but the more opinions the better
Sonny
07/01/01 at 19:07:02
Mem Amatullah, and all, I'ld feel bad if I made you feel that I would not welcome your views, I really do welcome your views, and want to learn more.  i am glad to see that there are all sorts of opinions, and even those who wonder the same things.  Well, it sort of reminds me of the brief stay I had in England one year...so many people that I met took the Catholic/Protestant conflict completely to heart, and were very involved with it. In our area of the country, such conflicts are practically unheard of between these two branches of faith. So, likewise, the Israeli/Palestinian has not been an issue I have been personally confronted with, not having been part of a culture of people for whom the conflict is meaningful. I pray that I will know how to respond correctly. I am unclear on taking the Shahada...I thought that I had, as I had said...and then I was told otherwise, that this hadn't been done correctly on my part, and that it should have been said in arabic, in public, at the mosque. Perhaps after a short while, I will be able to do this. I do not at all feel that any person needs to apologize for thier feelings or views. I was only having feelings myself, when I wrote my post, and thanks to your views, I am thinking more clearly again. Mem Amatullah, thank-you for sharing your thoughts--Sonny
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