Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| madina naseeha |
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| se7en |
| 07/11/01 at 02:42:10 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, Ok, we've had discussions about practically *everything* from contacts to contracts, from tawheed to mawlid, from piercings to Pierce (*cough*), and of course, marrriage - from the first day to the last straw :) What I want this thread to be about is, how we can improve ourselves, individually, and through that collectively. This is a forum for you to openly advise your madina brothers and sisters on something they can work on to help them be first a better Muslim, and from that a better and more effective contributor to the board. However, I don't want any names attached to this advice, or even any specific threads mentioned (unless it's an example of something *good* and relevant to your advice.) Just things that, from the board, you think we should work on. I don't want this to be limited to "be careful with your words", though that is seriously good advice. but more along the lines of, "we should be considerate of our Muslim brothers and sisters and be sensitive to their feelings, even when they've fallen into wrong action. In advising situations that involve emotional attachment between two people, be considerate of the feelings of the person who posted, and be gentle with them when discussing a relationship that means so much to them", or "when speaking to non-Muslims, in real life and on the board, make sure you discuss issues in light of that person's individual background and understanding.." etc.. Is this a challenge or what? :) But seriously.. I think often times the people that find themselves giving advice again and again on the board are as much in need of advising as those they are giving it too :) so.. advise the advisors :) they need reminders too. lemme know if I'm not making any sense here.. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah :) |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| eleanor |
| 07/11/01 at 06:26:02 |
| slm all I'm going to say here is that people should try to put themselves in the other person's place and think about how it would feel to have that particular problem. Then you could give a well thought out, kind and sensitive answer. If you can't give a kind and sensitive answer then maybe it's better not to post at all because you are doing more harm by posting a harsh and cruel post than by not airing your opinion and not posting at all. If anyone needs an example of the above then look at any post by Brother AbdulBasir. He posts so rarely, but when he posts it's always a jewel. wasalaam eleanor |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| jannah |
| 07/12/01 at 01:12:35 |
| [quote] Perhaps if the sisters could be less sensitive/personal/emotional when it comes to the post/responses, it may remove the sting a bit.[/quote] Sisters have a right to their feelings. If they are more "sensitive" that is the way Allah made them. It is not right however to not take into account another person's feelings/reactions when you are speaking/posting to them. Again just because we think "something is right" does not mean we just say it. We are Muslims and we learn hikmah from the hikmah of the prophet [saw] who was very CAREFUL in his words. Did you ever wonder why when so many ppl asked the prophet [saw] the same questions... ie "ya rasulullah, give me advice" there are so many different answers... to one he said "Do not get angry" to another "Observe the two afternoon prayers (al-asrayn)." to another "Do not abuse anyone". Remember even the two people who came with the same question and he [saw] gave a different answer to each. Was one of the answers "WRONG".... no... he just took into account the pre-disposition of the people who were asking him. Now that is true HIKMAH. |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| amatullah |
| 07/11/01 at 12:02:42 |
| Bismillah and salam, This is not a naseeha. I just want to share a story that that make me and my husband crack up in the car. It has to do with what you guys mention as ways of saying naseeha to have wisdom and not to embaress otherse, etc. It is about the prophet saws walking around when it was getting dark and he saw a man from the sahabi (will get the name later insha'Allah) who was just sitting with a bunch of women and laughing and talking. The prophet did not like this. So he call him and says what are you doing. The man felt embressed. and He said Oh they just helping me make a leesh for my camel who always tries to run away. So the prophet nodded and left. and the man as wll felt embaressed and left. The next day the prophet sees him, he aske him...what did that camel who always keep trying to run away do? and the man would feel embaressed and smile. Then day after same thing, the prophet would ask, whatever did that camel who always running away do? and the sahabi would leave. Then he start to avoid the prophet and where he would be. So one time he went to the mosque and saw that the prophet was not there so he was a little relieved. And starts to pray two raka'as. But guess who came in?! The prophet came and sat behind him and the sahabi can smell his nice scent. So he made his prayer sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long hoping the prophet will pray and leave before having to talk to him. So the prophet said wallahi if you make it long till judgement day i will wait to ask you a question. (haha) And so the man finished his prayer and he said to the prophet before you ask me it wallhi ya rasool Allah my "camel" has not gone astray since i became a muslim. and the prophet laughed at that answer. I think it is nice because he never embaressed him and told something that all the others would understand. And as well he kept at it to see what was happening. Sometimes we tend to help and then forget about the follow up. Hope you like it. |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| Marcie |
| 07/11/01 at 14:51:58 |
| As salamu alaykum, I am probably just reiterating what has already been said, but I feel that we need to be a little more humble in our responses. We are all tested in different ways and never know what the next test may be so we should try to be less judgemental and harsh. Al hamdu lillah for the most part I have enjoyed and learned from the responses. As salamu alaykum Marcie |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| se7en |
| 07/12/01 at 02:12:33 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, [quote] There is a hadith in Sahih Bukhari that relates the Rasool, SAWS, said: Women are made deficient in knowledge and religion- knowledge because of the fact that it takes 2 women to replace the witnessing of 1 man, and religion because women cannot fast or make salat when in menses. [/quote] Hmm. I'm not really sure what relevance this hadeeth has to your comment on women being emotional. I think though that this hadeeth taken out of context may be.. troubling, to say the least. To understand this hadeeth more clearly, I'd suggest one (or all) of the following: [*] [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=masjid&action=display&num=3874]This[/url] excellent passage from a work entitled "The Rights of Man" by Abdullah bin Baiyyah. [*] [url=http://www.isna.com/aeos.html]Elements of Success[/url] by Hamza Yusuf [*] Jamal Badawi's Gender Equity in Islam, specifically the chapter on [url=http://jannah.org/genderequity/equitychap4.html]equality before the law[/url] [*] the [url=http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/masud/ISLAM/misc/womenhell.htm]Postscript[/url] to this interesting article by Ruqayyah Waris Maqsood |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| Ruqayyah |
| 07/12/01 at 08:26:04 |
| [slm] [quote]Women are made deficient in knowledge and religion...because women cannot fast or make salat when in menses[/quote] I came across this hadith in reference to the above statement. It was sent in an email, so I don't know the source of it, but please correct me if this is an unreliable hadith. Bismillah Walhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam'ala Rasulillah It is not permissible for a woman to touch/read the Qur'an, pray Salaat,etc during menstruation but do not be disheartened because Allah is the creator ofJustice and is the Fairest of all. Sisters (and brothers with wives/sisters/mothers) take note of this wonderful hadith, The Prophet Muhammad(Salallahu-Alaihi-Wasallam) said: "During Haidh, if a woman reads the following 70 times at the time of salah: "Sub-Hanaka-Astagfirul-Lahal-Ladhi Laa-Ilaha-Illallah-Huwwal-Hayyul-Qayyoom" ["Your Purity I declare I seek Allah's forgiveness. None is worthy of worship besides Allah The Ever-Living,The Eternal"] Her rewards ---- she will get the reward of reading 1000 Rakaats of Salaat- 70 years of her sins will be forgiven- her status is raised in the Eyes of Allah (swt)- and for every letter of Istigfhaar, she gets a noor (Special light- and for every vein of her body, ONE HAJJ and ONE UMRAH is written" Now if this is true, how can a woman be deficient in religion? Perhaps it was poor word choice on the part of the brother. [wlm] Ruqayyah |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| jannah |
| 07/12/01 at 08:51:23 |
| slm, I think the above women hadith has been explained very well by the four links se7en posted... as for this haidh one: The Prophet Muhammad(Salallahu-Alaihi-Wasallam) said: "During Haidh, if a woman reads the following 70 times at the time of salah: "Sub-Hanaka-Astagfirul-Lahal-Ladhi Laa-Ilaha-Illallah-Huwwal-Hayyul-Qayyoom" ["Your Purity I declare I seek Allah's forgiveness. None is worthy of worship besides Allah The Ever-Living,The Eternal"] Her rewards ---- she will get the reward of reading 1000 Rakaats of Salaat- 70 years of her sins will be forgiven- her status is raised in the Eyes of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala )- and for every letter of Istigfhaar, she gets a noor (Special light- and for every vein of her body, ONE HAJJ and ONE UMRAH is written" I find it questionable. very questionable. Anytime you see something that says if you do this... you get....and the reward is one that is like crazy 1000 rakats of salah? 70 years of sin? hajj and umrah??? ummm... it doesn't seem very logical. Anyway until we can trace the source of this or what the scholars say I think we should discount it.. no offence... |
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| haaris |
| 07/12/01 at 09:27:26 |
| [slm] Can I respectfully make a suggestion? That we separate the (very worthy and, so far, well conducted) side-debate on the "deficiencies in intellect / religion" to a new thread so that the initial impetus of this thread (madina naseeha) is maintained and not inadvertently brushed aside. My twopenn'orth of "madina naseeha": When posting an element of advice / discussion / correction on the board, before you finally click on the Post button re-read your post from the point of view of the one to whom it is addressed. Will the addressee understand what you mean by certain terms / phrases / abbreviations? Do they understand why exactly you are so happy / sad / angry? Don't leave your thoughts only half expressed. If they're worth giving voice to then voice them fully. Don't expect people to guess what you mean, take them right the way through your chain of thought. May Allah reward us all. Ameen. |
| Treading with Caution |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 07/12/01 at 11:05:31 |
| Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem. Dear Brothers & Sisters, [slm] Let us not be mistaken. I don’t think the issue is about the words of our Beloved Messenger [saw]. The issue is what the *intended* meaning of those words were/is. To take *such* ahadith from a book - and that too, a translation - and just comprehend them upon the lexical meaning, based on what *seems* dhahir [apparent] and haqiqi [literal] is highly improper for any Muslim who has not studied the sciences relating to hadith, be it at all, or to the necessary level. How does one *know* that what one has inferred is what was meant? How do you even know that this is how the hadith was understood? Did you consult the sharh [commentary]? Or did you just conclude the ostensible meaning? This is more pronounced by the foreknowledge that the exposition to us of this hadith did *not* yield the same meaning as inferred above. And our study was with a teacher who is *qualified* and *authorised* to teach the Sahih of Imam Bukhari (ra) along with *all* the major hadith collections. In other words, he knew what he was talking about. Regarding Sahih Bukhari, it should be known that what is available in english is taken from only *one* of the riwayah, there are others, but these are confined to arabic till now. Thus, one cannot merely discount this point - or proceed oblivious to it - and presume that what has been read is all there is to know in order to adequately determine the correct meaning of this *wahy* [revelation]. How do you know there are not other texts which relate to the meaning, qualify it, specify it, restrict it, contextualise it, explain it, etc? Imam Bukhari’s (ra) Sahih has an *indispensible* sharh on it, by Imam ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (ra). Was this referred to? If not, then it is simply insufficient to come to conclusions in the absence of such scholarly authority, especially on such a matter. Let us refer to the words of Sheikh Yusuf Talal Delorenzo - who translated another of Imam Bukhari’s (ra) books, namely the Adab al-Mufrad – when he wrote about the Sahih in the introduction to his tranlsation (sic). As Aftab Malik notes in “The Broken Chain”: “He illustrates that in the classical Madrasah system, the study of the Sahih of Imam al Bukhari was only studied once the student had dedicated years into the study of various disciplines. Subjects such as Arabic language, rhetoric and literature; rational sciences of logic and philosophy; the disciplines of fiqh and the usul of fiqh amongst others came before even opening the sahih. He continues to explain that, “The place of sahih al Bukhari was so elevated that only those who had mastered the classical disciplines were considered ready to undertake its study”. [Imam Bukari’s Adab al Mufrad - Book of Muslim Morals and Manners, translated by Yusuf Talal Delorenzo, al Saadawi Publications, Alexandria, Virginia, 1997, p ii] In essence, the sahih of al Bukhari was a book that required a guide, a teacher who was authorised by this traditional system - an individual who had gone through it, to teach to others. Unfortunately, the story today is far from this. Anyone can purchase a copy of the Sahih and immediately start to interpret and derive understandings from the hadith from his own understanding. However, Yusuf points out that “the book is so full of technical nuances related to usul al hadith and ‘ilm al rijal’ that an approach in this manner results in a ‘fitna [..] in the sense that the person would be so confused and overcome after undertaking such an uninformed and one-dimensional reading […] that he or she would face a crisis in their religion”. [Ibid. p ii-iii]” So, perhaps we should heed a lesson from this, lest we reach an erroneous conclusion due to a lack of proficiency with the requisite uloom [sciences] that are necessary in order to navigate this intricate area. Beware, for interpreting the words of our Beloved Nabi [saw] is no light matter (and I’m not suggesting anyone thinks it is). We shall be called to account for what we said and what we professed in public concerning what we thought he [saw] meant. If we are wrong - the possibility of which is more likely when we rely on translations - then it may be counted as a lie against him [saw], wallahu ta'ala a'lam, for which the implication is indeed grave. And if anyone thinks that I am being unnecessarily paranoid, then I can only inform you that when we studied one particular hadith text (i.e. book) with one of our teachers, that has been translated into english (and is widely available), I would not be exaggerating if I said that he made a correction on almost every page! We were shocked at the degree of error that was discovered in the translation. Imagine now the amount of Muslims that will have read this translation and acted upon *their own* comprehensions, unaware that so many mistakes existed within it. This is why it is paramount - not to mention safer - to take from 'those who know', and not our unlearned selves. And if we don't have access to such Ulema, then we refrain from making conclusions when the matter is not one where making conclusions is incumbent upon us. So let us shift the burden from our unlearned shoulders to the Ahl al-‘Ilm who are better positioned to take on such a weighty task which can carry far-reaching implications for our hereafter. Only that which was correct and sound was from the Guidance of Allah (awj). The mistakes were mine alone, for which I seek His (awj) forgiveness. Abu Khaled |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| Mona |
| 07/12/01 at 15:54:19 |
| Assalamu alaikum, [quote][color=black]Can I respectfully make a suggestion? That we separate the (very worthy and, so far, well conducted) side debate on the "deficiencies in intellect / religion" to a new thread so that the initial impetus of this thread (madina naseeha) is maintained and not inadvertently brushed aside. [/quote][/color] I agree. The suggestions of the previous sisters and brothers who posted in response are well articulated. My 2 Cdn cents' worth are: 1* Revise your intentions - look at them from as many angles as possible, before hitting the 'post' button. If there is any hint self-righteousness, condescension, sarcasm or trivialism in your words, it is better to cross-out the whole post altogether than risk giving naseeha with the wrong intention 2* Remember that words can harm and also have the potential of being taken out of context, misinterpreted, twisted, whatever. Don't assume that everyone is on the same wavelength as you are on. Clarify, clarify, clarify, then clarify again! 3* Don't respond impulsively (or in haste) if you read an "outrageous" post that stirred some type of emotion in you. Read the post, then go away until you are no longer 'perturbed'. If you still feel you want to respond, make sure that you are not angry while typing. Don't shy away from putting forth your ideas, just make sure that they are warranted and non-abrasive. 4* Use happy face icons as much as possible! They have a calming effect (on me at least) :) Wassalam |
| Re: madina naseeha |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/13/01 at 05:44:33 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Following on from what Sr Mona said: Use plenty of space when you post so others can read easily what you have to say. Ifyouwritethingsallclosetogetherthechancesarepeoplewontreadwhatyouhavetosayandthebenefitofoyourpostwillbereducedaccordingly ;-) |
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