Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| Haniff |
| 07/19/01 at 02:34:19 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Women's obedience and men's distinction Question: I have been researching the status of women in Islam, but I found certain things that I cannot understand. For example, I read a Hadith to the effect that if women were allowed to prostrate for anyone, they would do so before their husbands. Obedience by a wife is stressed very strongly. That should be all right if a husband is reasonable in his demands. But many are the husbands that are unreasonable, and with the requirement of obedience women can be in a very difficult position. Moreover, a Qur'anic verse speaks of the steps to be taken before divorce, and it includes beating one's wife. I am told that the word "beat" is an incorrect translation. Yet there is a Qur'anic statement that gives husbands a step over women in their status. That gives me the impression that the relationship between man and wife in Islam is similar to one between a man and his pet. It is easy to make a pet's life very difficult without ever incurring a sin. Please explain. Answer: It is easy to misinterpret a verse in the Qur'an or a statement by the Prophet if one takes it in isolation, without relating it to other verses and statements on the same subject. Hence it is imperative when we deal with religious text to understand the basic principles that Islam emphasizes and to relate such text to principles applicable to its subject matter. In the relationship between man and woman, the overriding principle is that stated by God in Verse 228 of Surah 2: "Women shall, in all fairness, enjoy rights equal to those exercised against them." As this statement occurs in the context of divorce, it is applicable to all matrimonial relations. The rights of both husband and wife are equal. There is no doubt about this. The practice of the Prophet and his guidance confirm this. I realize that the next statement in the same verse speaks of men having an advantage over women, but this advantage is simply the one which gives a man the right to end the marital relationship unilaterally, while a woman needs to prove a case of harm or seek khala' in order to get her marriage terminated. In the light of the above statement, and looking at the way God makes His address in the Qur'an, scholars have concluded that whenever an address is made by the Prophet or in the Qur'an, it applies to men and women equally. Excepted from that are the cases where women are addressed specifically as women. Thus, the address in the Qur'an or Hadith applies either to women on their own, when the case is clearly so, or to men and women equally. This means that the order to men to take good care of women, implies that women should also take good care of men. This is a pervasive rule that applies in all situations except where the context is clear that it applies to women only. There is no question that the relationship is one of a master and a pet. It is one between equals, governed by rights specified by God and elaborated by His messenger. Now if we look at the examples the reader has pointed out, we begin with the Hadith about prostration. It is clearly misquoted by the reader, who makes it a special case for women, while it is not. The Hadith runs as follows: "Qais ibn Saad (a companion of the Prophet) says: I went to Al-Heerah (the capital of Al-Manathirah puppet state in Iraq) where I saw people prostrating before the governor. I thought that God's messenger had a greater claim to people's prostration. When I met him I reported this and told him, "You have a better claim that we should prostrate ourselves to you. He said: "Do not do that. Had I thought of ordering anyone to prostrate before another, I would have ordered women to prostrate before their husbands, because of the rights they have against them." (Related by Abu Dawood). When you look at the Hadith in full, you realize that it is a case of prohibition rather than encouragement. It is not permissible for anyone to prostrate himself before another, no matter what position that person occupies. In his own case, the Prophet ordered his companions not to do that. He then added that had such prostration ever been possible, then women might have been ordered to do it for their husbands. But the Prophet did not order that. Hence, it is not right. The construction of the sentence makes it clear that the whole idea is unacceptable. It is stated in this way only to emphasize the matrimonial rights. According to Islam, however, these are equal between man and wife. Hence, we should never belittle women's rights in Islam. Another misconception by the reader is that concerned with beating and divorce. The Qur'anic verse that mentions this speaks of women who are rebellious. Three methods of dealing with them are specified in a particular order, one after the other. No one may resort to the second step before the first, or to the third before the second. The verse may be rendered in translation as follows: "As for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them first, then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them." (4: 34) In his translation of the Qur'an, Mr. Muhammad Asad writes a footnote in comment on this verse. He explains the case admirably well. It is useful to quote him in full: "It is evident from many authentic traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one's wife, and said on more than one occasion, 'Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening'?" (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim). According to another tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, "Never beat God's handmaidens." (Related by Abu Dawood, Nassaie, lbn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, lbn Hibban, and Hakim). When the above Qur'anic verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said, "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing. What God has willed must be best." With all this he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain." Authentic traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmithi, Abu Dawood, Nassaie and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these traditions, all the authorities stress that this "beating", if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic - "with a toothbrush, or some such thing", or even with "a folded handkerchief." Some of the great Muslim scholars, e.g. Shafie, are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided. They justify this opinion by the Prophet's personal feelings with regard to this problem. I will quote just one Hadith in support of what Mr. Asad says. Muawiyah Al-Qoshairi reports, "I asked God's messenger about our women and what we may do and what we may not do with them. He said, 'You may come into her when you wish. You must feed her when you eat and clothe her when you buy clothes. You must not insult her, nor may you hit her'." (Relatedby Abu Dawood). The relationship between man and wife in Islam is not one of obedience in a military sense, as some people would have us understand. It is a caring and loving relationship in which both try their best to take good care of each other. The reader speaks of unreasonable husbands who demand obedience. This is not what is required of a woman. She is to obey her husband in what is fair and reasonable. He may not demand what is neither fair nor reasonable. [i]Arab News - 12 May 2000[/i] Wassalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Haniff |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| widad |
| 08/01/01 at 05:40:28 |
| Assalamu alykum warahamatullahi wabarakatuh There is a lot iof misconception when understanding the meaning of marital relationship both from the women and the men.I have noticed that some men think it is their given right to treat woemn badly,but that was answered in brother Hanif's post. And some women think that by obeying their husband's that will lessen their value or status..I would like to tell them that this obedience and respect to husband's is a form of worship to Allah just as hijab is and salat is,we do what Allah ordered as a form of "3ibadah"(worship).So if everything we do we think in terms of: "- why am I doing this?" "-to please Allah subhanahuwataala...". If all our actions are governed by this question and answer,believe me everything will be easier. May Allah show us all the right track,and may we all meet in jannat al-firdaws...ameen,ameen,ameen. |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| jannah |
| 08/01/01 at 09:28:06 |
| I have to say that I disagree with the general "tone" of your article. Who exactly are you trying to accuse of what??? [quote]To be unsatisfied with taking care of household chores, raising children, not being able to freely socialize with whom ever, when ever, to have to cover yourselves more so, to be obedient towards your husbands, to be a source of tranquility and compassion for your husbands, are basic obligation of a good muslim wife/woman expecting to be married. [/quote] Are you trying to say that the married sisters here are not fulfilling their duties? Are you trying to say that the sisters on this board wouldn't be good wives or mothers? Where exactly are you getting this opinion? I didn't see one single sister on the board who ever said anything like the above? Or maybe you know something we don't? [quote]that women are beginning to make their own translations/interpretations of the hadiths, Quran, and men of today are bowing to this interpretation to be P.C. or non confrontational, in terms of womens rights.[/quote] I'd like to know where they are doing this? [quote]But I expect that I am going to get shot down after posting this message, by both the boys/men and girls/women on this board.[/quote] I think you should be... you just made a general accusation against all the sisters on this board. And i suppose it's in "obedience" that they shouldn't respond either eh? |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| Kathy |
| 08/01/01 at 10:12:55 |
| [quote]...and stay away from my wife!!![/quote] I have met wives like this whose husbands that feel this way. It is sad. A muslim wife was having problems with her husband, she asked me for advice. I meerly gave her some hadith relating to their problems, in support of her. After she showed her husband the hadith- he removed all english translations from their home.... In America we used to have this saying- "It's best to keep the women folk barefoot and pregnant!" Wonder what Ayesha, Khadejiah and all the other wives of the Prophet pbuh would think of that? |
| NS |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| se7en |
| 08/01/01 at 15:51:29 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, [quote]I think a big problem, especially today, is that women are led to believe that they can do anything a man can do, and some think they can do it better. [/quote] This is true. The biggest problem with the feminist movement today is that it asserts that being equal to a man implies being the same as a man. But I know as a Muslim woman that this is not what Islam says, and in reality men and women are inherently different - though this does not imply a lack of gender equity. [quote]Fourthly, men tend to be the ones in the family to go in the path of Allah T'ala, attend Jumuah prayers, make Hajj, and give sadaqah. While several items are by design, others are by rules specifically laid out by Islam. [/quote] I don't understand why you stated this. I know many women who attend Jummah, make Hajj, and give in sadaqa. And doing these things isn't an attempt to be masculine, these forms of ibdadah are not limited or directed towards men alone. And women tend to be the ones who perform tarbiyyatul awlaad, who seek to raise their children well and nurture them to have a deep appreciation for Islam, a serious love for Allah, and upright, strong eman. These women are, indeed, the actual sources of knowledge for the next generation of the Muslim ummah, and they have a profound effect on the future of Islam. It's interesting that there's a hadeeth of Rasulullah [saw] that says that a woman who raises her children upright is actually *in* jihad, is in fact rewarded the same as a man who goes out in the path of Allah t'ala in combative jihad. I heard a (male) speaker say, our women are in jihad, and until *we* are in jihad we have no right to speak out against them.. [quote]To be unsatisfied with taking care of household chores, raising children, not being able to freely socialize with whom ever, when ever, to have to cover yourselves more so, to be obedient towards your husbands, to be a source of tranquility and compassion for your husbands, are basic obligation of a good muslim wife/woman expecting to be married. It does not mean that these things should be the source of all the good in your marriage, educational challenge, or career ambition, but these things come first. Anyone who says or does any different will have to contend with this on another level now or later.[/quote] I think this is where we differ. I don't think it's "islamic" to be satisfied with household chores. The women of the Prophet [saw]'s generation did not remain within the four walls of their homes at all times. Their lives were not devoted to making dinner or cleaning up after their husbands. These women did care for their children, care for their husbands, but these women of the prophetic school were warriors, poets, scholars. They were also on the battlefield giving water to the injured - or some even in combative jihad.. they were teaching students who sought to learn from the best and most knowledgeable.. they attended salah in the masjid even for fajr and isha - walking there alone even in darkness.. these women came to Rasulullah [saw] with questions, seeking answers.. The difference here is that the purpose of these women's lives was not to serve their husbands, to raise children, or to take care of their house. The purpose of their lives was the same as their husbands; tahqeekul ubudiyyah, and they did what they had to do to fulfill that. They were *not* satisfied with housework because that was not the purpose of their lives. They were satisfied with ta'a of Allah, and nothing less. This ta'a may *perhaps include* housework, but is not limited to that in the way it so often is described today. I am not denying that caring for my children, being a source of tranquility for my husband, etc etc are fundamental parts of a woman's role as mother and wife. Obviously they are. But my problem is with not discussing anything *outside* of these responsibilities. When we discuss men, their roles, their inherent nature, do we limit that discussion to the fact that they must provide for their families, be good to their wives, and go out in combative jihad? No, so why do we limit discussions on women and their role to caring for their children and being a source of tranquility for their husbands? No one is denying these things.. but there is more here than what is *always* discussed. I remember a speaker mention the story of a Muslim woman scholar, who in the end of the 20 volume encyclopedia she had written, she wrote, please forgive me if there are mistakes in this last part.. for as I write these words with one hand, I am rocking the cradle of my child with the other. SubhanAllah. *This* is the legacy of Muslim women. This deen is one that allows women to fulfill their true potential, intellectually, spiritually, physically. This is *my* deen, that does not limit a woman to blind obedience to a man who is capable of mistakes nor to using the intellect she was endowed with for nothing more than curtain patterns.. this is the deen that I am part of and the deen that I love.. and when people make it less than that I do get angry.. My issue is not with you complaining that a lot of women have problems with fulfilling their duties in Islam and are deluded by this feminazi trash that asserts a woman will not be equal to a man until she *becomes* a man and rejects her role as mother and wife. My issue is with you limiting a good Muslim woman to household chores, as if that is all she is supposed to do in Islam, as if that's her sole duty and purpose. These are both extremes. [quote] I sense more often than not on this board and among the culture of this country-U.S., that women are beginning to make their own translations/interpretations of the hadiths, Quran, and men of today are bowing to this interpretation to be P.C. or non confrontational, in terms of womens rights. [/quote] It does happen unfortunately. There's even a call among the Fatima Mernissi crowd to dismiss the last 1400 years of scholarship because it's been male-driven, a completely ridiculous notion considering that Islamic scholarship has never in anyway been limited to men... at least traditionally. Unfortunately now, with this attitude of "women should stay at home as they have no place in scholarship despite the legacy of women scholars in Islam" there is going to be a backlash. That's the evil fruition that comes with the dhulm of limiting women's knowledge of Islam to a few ahadeeth about a women's obedience to her husband/father. That is a *serious* accusation though brother. Rasulullah [saw] promised a seat in the hellfire for anyone who tells a lie about him. Where has this happened on the board? [quote] But I expect that I am going to get shot down after posting this message, by both the boys/men and girls/women on this board. [/quote] I'm hoping that instead of dismissing the responses you get to your posts you consider what it is people are saying and why they take the time to say it. [quote] We are all slaves, and ungrateful at that. [/quote] Very true. This is just *my* (heated) response to what you've written, it's in no way representative of what all the sisters on the board think.. wAllahu 'alam. wasalaamu alaykum. |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| amal |
| 08/02/01 at 00:06:44 |
| Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatollahi wa barakatoh, [quote]You seemed to be pretty oblivious to the whole Hawwa tempted Adam,A.S. thing [/quote] Subhana'Allah. Where did you get this from? Where in islam does it say that Hawa tempted Adam (may Allah be pleased with them)? What you just said is in the judeo-christian tradition and has nothing to do with islam. And if you don't believe a fellow muslimah then let the words of the Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala be the judge between us.Allah says in surah Ta'aha verses 117-121 : "Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife. So let him not get you both out of The Garden so that thou art landed in misery. There is therein (enough provision) for thee not to go hungry nor to go naked.Nor to suffer from thirst, nor from the sun's heat".But Satan whispered evil to him: he said "O Adam! Shall i lead thee to The Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?". In result , they both ate of The Tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them.They began to sew together for their covering leaves from The Garden. Thus did Adam disobey His Lord and allow himself to be seduced" It's perfectly clear here that Satan whispered to Adam ,NOT Eve, who was then seduced by him. Please check the correctness of your assumptions before you jump to the gun and accuse women to be temptresses. [quote]this advantage is simply the one which gives a man the right to end the marital relationship unilaterally [/quote] As in everything else in islam there's hikmah behind this rule too, which might not necesserily be to satisfy man's whims. This rule might be to protect the woman also. How? Let's see.If a man decides to leave his wife and all attempts for mediation fail,there are three alternatives: either he divorces her or if he's refused this right then he might find another illegal way to get rid of her, or he will simply leave her and engage in adultry which aside from being a crime in islam won't help the wife a bit. I think we're all familiar with the story of Henry VIII whom after being refused by the pope ,because of the catholics's belief that marriage is for eternity,to divorce his first wife he got rid of her by charging her with treason whose punishment was death.He did the same with several wives he married later, each he charged with adultry and other crimes punishable by death. Thus to prevent such situations from arising Allah in his infinite wisdom grants the man his freedom so that he may not be tempted to get it at the expence of the wife and both are free to start a new life. This is only my humble opinion and not that of a scholar. [quote]"I sense more often than not on this board and among the culture of this country-U.S., that women are beginning to make their own translations/interpretations of the hadiths, Quran, and men of today are bowing to this interpretation to be P.C. or non confrontational, in terms of womens rights." [/quote] Brother Qamar, these are your words. Nobody is accusing you of anything.If now you've decided that what you wrote is not what you meant then maybe you should have worded it differently. But since we can only reply to what you have acually written and not what you sub-consciously INTENDED,we don't claim any psychic abilities here, then you can propably understand the sisters' reaction to your post. When i read "sensed" as you kindly put it, i can only deduce one of two things: either you've read posts that would attest to your allegation or that you claim to know what's in the sisters' hearts, in either case you're making a serious allegation against a people's basic belief without any proof.I hope you realise the gravity of what you're saying.Interpreting the Quran based on one's whims is the same as disbelieving in the Qur'an and that is SHIRK.If you think that we misunderstood you then pray tell us what you meant by your statement. Finally, i would like to remind all of us on this board to please refrain from making claims or assumptions about what islam says about a certain issue without the daleel from the Qur'an or Hadith to back it up.In this case even if we make the mistake of misinterpreting out of ignorance others can set us straight.I also urge all of us,starting with myself, to check what we write because on the day of judgment we will be asked about it. And God knows best. wa alaykumu assalam |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| jannah |
| 08/01/01 at 22:54:11 |
| [quote]My Posts "I sense more often than not on [color=red]this board [/color]and among the culture of this country-U.S., that women are beginning to make their own translations/interpretations of the hadiths, Quran, and men of today are bowing to this interpretation to be P.C. or non confrontational, in terms of womens rights."[/quote] again i ask you for the proof of this statement. i personally would like to know if there is anything unislamic on this board so i suggest you bring the evidence if you're going to make a statement like that. [quote]If you read my post, instead of reacting to it based on its tone, you will see that it is something I 'sense' and not something that I have read on this board or can identify- but your unreasonable responses and reading into my posts relays very definitely how quick you are to judge a man's intentions. [/quote] This remark doesn't seem to go with the first one above. If you are saying something bring your proof, if you are "sensing" something i suggest you not make statements like the above. [quote] I never made any judgements about women on this board, [/quote] again i refer you to your own quote that says something verbatim about this. [quote]the impression I get from the very pro-feminist, I am woman hear me roar type-attitude by you and others. The criticism was mainly of American women and their "Islamic" counterparts.[/quote] let me make one simple thing clear.. i don't really care about your opinion of me.. if u think i'm pro-feminist, hear me roar, american muslim woman.. whatever.. but do not accuse me or others on here of doing something unislamic, because as you must know without proof that is considered [color=red]slander [/color]in islam. Your whole hawwa thing. now why i didn't respond to you in that thread, since you seem to be asking? is there a law? did you think you were in a debate with particular people? maybe someone doesn't feel like arguing with someone that doesn't accept what they bring. I do not have tafseer on that single hadith you brought so there's really no need for me to discuss it. What I wrote is what is generally known and what many respectable islamic scholars say. For example, [fixed] 4. The Qur'an does not blame woman for the "fall of man," nor does it view pregnancy and childbirth as punishments for "eating from the forbidden tree."On the contrary,the Qur'an depicts Adam and Eve as equally responsible for their sin in the garden , never singling out Eve for blame. It also esteems pregnancy and childbirth as sufficient reasons for the love and respect due to mothers from their children. O Adam! You and your wife dwell in the garden and enjoy (its good things) as you (both) wish: but approach not this tree or you (both) run into harm and transgression. Then Satan began to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame was hidden from them (before): he said, "Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you (both) should become angels or such beings as live forever." And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought about their fall. When they tasted the tree, their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I know forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?" They said: "Our Lord! we have wronged our own souls: If You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost." (Allah) said: "Get you (both) down with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling- place and your means of livelihood for a time." He said: "Therein shall you (both) live and therein shall you (both) die; and from it shall you (both) be taken out (at last)..." O you children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith. [4] (Qur'an 7:19-27) Regarding pregnancy and childbirth, the Qur'an states: And We have enjoined on (every) person (to be good) to his/her parents: in travail upon travail did his/her mother bear him/her and in years twain was his/her weaning: (hear the command) "Show gratitude to Me and to your parents: to Me is (your final) Goal." (Qur'an 31:14) We have enjoined on (every) person kindness to his/her parents: in pain did his/her mother bear him/her and in pain did she give his/her weaning is (a period of) thirty months. At length, when he /she reaches the age of full strength and attains forty years, he/she says "O my Lord! grant that I may be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon both my parents and that I may work righteousness such as You may approve; and be gracious to me in my issue. Truly have I turned to You and truly do I bow (to You) in Islam (submission)." (Qur'an 46:15) [5][/fixed] so if i mention who said the above and what other scholars say.. how will someone respond?? oh but THAT hadith and those aren't real scholars anyway blah blah.. etc... anyway i suggest you ask your imam about it because it is not useful for us to argue about it here. btw I also suggest you ask your Imam about the details you can share with other women. Our imam mentioned that the only thing you can't share is the intimate details but who said one cannot share their problems or ask for help?? So In conclusion, I asked you for proof brother, there is no need for you to go into your personal history, no one cares really and no one is accusing you of anything. We're just asking you to remember to back up your CLAIMS. |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| Haniff |
| 08/02/01 at 00:30:27 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh [quote]"There is no question that the relationship is one of a master and a pet" This appears to be a typo in bro Haniffs original post[/quote] There is no 'typo' here, dear brother. I have accurately reproduced what is in the original. If you read the statement very carefully, you will observe that the scholar is telling the questioner that "the question of a master-pet relationship does not arise at all" and he dispels the doubts entertained by the questioner. I am not here to answer the other points raised by you. Masha Allah, they are all well handled by the sisters on the Board. May Allah Almighty grant them more knowledge and wisdom. Wassalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Haniff (with 2 f's) |
| Hey, copyrighted!! |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 08/02/01 at 06:34:28 |
| Assalam alaikum, Hmm. I have been reading our dear Sister Se7en’s posts for quite some time now, and this is the first time I noticed the old ‘stressing words between aterisks’ style. I wonder where such a fabulous method was taken from… so effective masha’Allah, whoever originated it should definitely be given a medal or something…no seriously… ;) Oh, lament we, to exist in a world without acknowledgement…pioneers one and all…leaders followers shall be…the earth and meek people inheriting, and all that ace stuff… I recall a certain thread on ‘new writing genre!’ in the Shahadah Bookstore not too long ago, in which a certain someone who doesn’t dislike bebzi asserted copyright. Was that like a double-standards thing or something? Hehe… Lol. :D Abu Khaled PS: Hey, no ones making any claims (honest). Just wondering. ;) PPS: Sorry to make light of what is essentially a very serious thread (and rightly so). I was going to chime in too, but since y’all did such an intimidating job I thought it better to stay away. Y’know, thunder, my, and stealing. All that stuff. (I’m joking! – about the intimidating). PPPS: *Fe-rocious*! ……………………………………………………………KIDDING!!! ;-D PPPPS: Have two posts been removed, or only one? I get the sense it’s two, which means I missed one. ??? Darn it! |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| se7en |
| 08/02/01 at 06:47:02 |
wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatAllah, Hmm.. I honestly didn't realize I had taken that from you. I did however consciously hijack your use of brackets for translation/explanation, though I don't think I used any in this specific post. Example: rahma [mercy, love] etc *But*, as we are all brothers and sisters on the board who love, care and have rahma [mercy, love] for one another, I didn't think you would mind. Much. :P wasalaamu alaykum :) |
| Sneaky |
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| AbuKhaled |
| 08/02/01 at 07:31:55 |
| Assalam alaikum, “Hmm.. I honestly didn't realize I had taken that from you” See, you should *definitely* now be spooked that Abu Khaled has the power of subconscious influence. *mwahahaha* “I did however consciously hijack your use of brackets for translation/explanation, though I don't think I used any in this specific post” Yes, you can have my permission to use the Abu Khaled Patented Way of Information Dissemination (c. 1990’something), just improve your method of asking in future okay, cos’ I doubt many other people reading that realised it was your reluctant way of asking for it. ;-D “*But*, as we are all brothers and sisters on the board who love, care and have rahma [mercy, love] for one another, I didn't think you would mind. Much. :P” Now *that* was just plain cheeky. How am I supposed to come back on that? Tsk! I hate when “Bruthaz’n’Sistaz” come out with all that one Ummah stuff, you just can’t disagree, tch…talk about exploiting an inbuilt get-out-of-jail-free clause… Abu Khaled :D |
| Re: Women's obedience and men's distinction |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/02/01 at 16:17:50 |
| [slm] Wait a minute here ... *I* was the one who first started the use of "stress between the astericks" technique. Wasn't it?? I think more than 1 post was deleted from this thread. Either 2 or 3. Wassalamu alaikum. |
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