hijabi, wat do u do???

Madina Archives

Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/20/01 at 15:07:31

salam,
OK, i feel sorry 4 u bros, as u r sooooooo lazy to start new threads!!!

Neways, i was just wondering wat u bros do if u c a hijabi????
do u salam her??? I'm just asking coz my bro says that gurls hav dodgy minds, so u should'nt salam em!!!

My bro said wen he c'z a hijabi in Uni, out of respect he opens the door 4 em,but he doesnt salam!!!

Wen i c a hijabi, i salam!!! But thats diff 4 me coz i'm a gurl!!!

neways, answear my Q, wat do u do wen u c a hijabi???

wa-salam
hope i'm makin sence!!!!

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
isra

07/20/01 at 16:15:11

[center][img]http://members.nbci.com/isra114/mbm.png[/img][/center]
[center][img]http://members.nbci.com/isra114/hamd1.png[/img][/center]
[img]http://www.jannah.org/board/Images/salam.gif[/img]
Excuse me, which sort of english language is it you wrote? I strive my brain but no understand.
[img]http://www.jannah.org/board/Images/wsalam.gif[/img]

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
BroHanif

07/20/01 at 17:57:12

A.W.W.

[quote]neways, answear my Q, wat do u do wen u c a hijabi[/quote]

I make dua in my heart that Allah keep that hijab on her and you don't look at her again, first look is forgiven, second is NOT. This is for us men.

[quote]OK, i feel sorry 4 u bros, as u r sooooooo lazy to start new threads!!![/quote]

Us bros are more intelligent and don't just fire off new threads like there is no tomorrow. I can say for all the Bros that we think before we post, thats why we may have less threads and posts when compared to the hijabi ladies :)

Salaams

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Anik

07/20/01 at 18:40:38

A.A.

I am in total agreement with BroHaniff... we are not chatterboxes ... lol

When I see a hijabi, I kind of just say asalaaamu alaikum under my breath and nod while my gaze hits the floor...

if she also saw me, she would probably know what i was saying and do the same, under-the-breath-nod-of-the-chin-lower-the-gaze thing.

also, it depends where you are... I find if I am in a place where there are not many muslims, for solidarity and support we should "salaam" our brothers and sisters, otherwise it MAY be hard to tell where your spiritual bretheren are...

if in a muslim populated area, then I just kinda mind my own... not that I ignore, but don't necessarily jump out to greet everyone. asalamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/21/01 at 04:01:07

[quote]
Excuse me, which sort of english language is it you wrote? I strive my brain but no understand.[/quote]
sorry,
Its just a Q, wat do u say wen u c a hijabi????

k bros, ur not chatterboxs, yea right???
i just sooooooooo believe u!!!(sarcasm)

Neways, i wanna know how sisters react if a bro salams em!!!

This is how i react if a bro salams. If hes lookin down to the floor, i salam back, but if hes staring and sayin salam, i get angry and i don't always replie!!!

wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Ziggy

07/21/01 at 15:13:17

salaam.
lol..whatta weird thread..at least u've started one tho..! :)

anayway...sum1 asked the very same question agez ago in another forum somewhere, sumtime....:)

erm..yeah...if a bro said salaam to me AND was lowering his gaze and sorta lowering his voice aswell then yeah..i'd reply but if he's just staring at me with a big cheezy smile on his face then i'd wanna slap him but i probably would just walk off! :)

peace
zakira

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Kashif

07/21/01 at 18:17:59

[quote]Neways, i was just wondering wat u bros do if u c a hijabi????
do u salam her??? I'm just asking coz my bro says that gurls hav dodgy minds, so u should'nt salam em!!![/quote]
assalaamu alaikum

I take out my 'Weirdness scanner' and if it tells me that the hijaabi is Mahmoodah i cross the road and duck behind the cars till she's gone.

just kidding.

Is there supposed to be a special behaviour when you see them beyond what is courtesy?

In my area there are so many hijabis and niqabis that it really isn't practical to give salaam to all of them, heck i don't even give salaam to all the brothers i see in the streets because there are so many.

I don't know how to put it, but in my experience and the little that i've seen, brothers just don't give salaam to some anonymous hijabi sister. It just doesn't happen.

Kashif
Wa Salaam

NS
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/21/01 at 19:55:11

[quote]
brothers just don't give salaam to some anonymous hijabi sister. It just doesn't happen.
[/quote]
salam
yea it does!!!!
afew days ago i was followed by a weird guy, i got freeked out!!!
he followed me then salamed me, i din salam back, i was freeked out!!!

Neways, there isnt many hijabis here, and to tell the truth most the bros her do salam wen they c me:) But i hate the idea of staing and salaming andfollowing and salaming, aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!

wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
mango

07/22/01 at 01:58:33

It is quite obivious when a brother's intentions are pure and when they arent. When decent brothers say salam to me, it just makes me feel good to know that there are respectable people in the community that will back me up in a time of need (just like when other girls say salam to me). I think it definitely strengthens the community. So, brothers don't feel disccouraged. Trust me..if you're a decent..we won't assume that you are being flirtatious.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Saleema

07/22/01 at 02:25:56

[slm]

I never initiate a salam if I don't know the guy. Cuz guys have dodgy minds too! What do u say to a Muslim that says "Hi" and does not say salam?

If they say Hi to me first then I say "walaikum assalam." Do you think that is rude? But that is such a basic thing, that's they least that Muslim can do.

[wlm]
Saleema

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Fatoosh

07/22/01 at 02:44:16

[quote]If they say Hi to me first then I say "walaikum assalam." Do you think that is rude?[/quote]

no. I don't think that's really rude. My principle in highschool used to say wa alaikum hi, that was funny :)

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/22/01 at 03:38:59

[quote]If they say Hi to me first then I say "walaikum assalam." Do you think that is rude?

no. I don't think that's really rude. My principle in highschool used to say wa alaikum hi, that was funny :)[/quote]

i don't think it is right!!!
coz wen a kufr salams i usually just say "walaikum", i do the same to sum ppl in skool!!! I don't salam to a hi, i'd say hi!!!

i'm not gunna salam sum1 claiming to b muslim!!!

wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
taueeya

07/22/01 at 05:07:16

Assalamu Alaikum,

Sorry for being late on this thread but here are my responses:

[quote]Neways, i was just wondering wat u bros do if u c a hijabi[/quote]

Alhamdulillah, I apply my rule "Kill the Will" and lower my gaze as has been ordered.

[quote]do u salam her[/quote]

No, I can't do that. Making an eye to eye contact with a hijabi girl especially when I don't know her, kills me. Its just like losing my prestige by myself.

[quote]My bro said wen he c'z a hijabi in Uni, out of respect he opens the door 4 em,but he doesnt salam!!![/quote]

I don't and can't do that either. Philosophy behind it? its that Allah(Swt) has provided me and her, both, with 2 hands. She can use them to open the door by herself.

[quote]erm..yeah...if a bro said salaam to me AND was lowering his gaze and sorta lowering his voice aswell then yeah..i'd reply but if he's just staring at me with a big cheezy smile on his face then i'd wanna slap him but i probably would just walk off! [/quote].

[quote]This is how i react if a bro salams. If hes lookin down to the floor, i salam back, but if hes staring and sayin salam, i get angry and i don't always replie!!![/quote]

[quote]When decent brothers say salam to me, it just makes me feel good to know that there are respectable people in the community that will back me up in a time of need (just like when other girls say salam to me). I think it definitely strengthens the community. So, brothers don't feel disccouraged. Trust me..if you're a decent..we won't assume that you are being flirtatious. [/quote]

Now, this showed some good expectations sisters! ( sarcastic!)
So, the brothers need to say salaam first in any case, is it? Have sisters been exempted from saying salaam to brothers? Or They shall say salaam first to prove their "decency"? Sisters need not to say salaam because they are "always decent" or " Born decent". Ahh man! Poor brothers!

[quote]I never initiate a salam if I don't know the guy. Cuz guys have dodgy minds too! [/quote].

I think, that's the most appropriate behaviour both sides shahl/can adapt to.

Wallahu 'Alam.
Wassalam.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
zamzam

07/22/01 at 06:38:21

[center][color=Green][slm]
I dont understand much of it, here. Sorry, but please enlighten me if I got sth wrong.
Why would you look down when come across a hijabi, someone who is showing her piety and modesty? I dont mean you start a chat or sth. But isnt it that saying Salam (w/ smile ;) ) the best way to show respect. Well, you shouldnt be doing that all the time. But say, if you can open the door and say Salam as well when both of you near the entrance or sth?
Is that being flirtatious? I think, its in your intentions which would show up in your eyes or behavior if you didnt mean good. As far as 'lowering your gaze' is concerned, I understand that as you would do when come across someone not in proper hijab (muslim or non-muslim). The person is showing that part of her/his body which she/he shouldnt be. Then surely its a real test and challenge especially when you cant avoid such a person, say your team member in a project or sth. And I try my best avoiding such (w/o being rude ofcourse)
I feel sooooo good when I see a muslimah following Allah's command in being modest and would surely go all my way if I can show my respect, Insha'Allah.
[wlm]
[/color]
[/center]
Zamzam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/22/01 at 08:25:37

salam
[quote]
Now, this showed some good expectations sisters! ( sarcastic!)
So, the brothers need to say salaam first in any case, is it? Have sisters been exempted from saying salaam to brothers? Or They shall say salaam first to prove their "decency"? Sisters need not to say salaam because they are "always decent" or " Born decent". Ahh man! Poor brothers! [/quote]

how r us sisters supposed to know if ur a muslim or not???
we hav our hijabs to show that were muslins, u don't!!!

[quote] Ā
Why would you look down when come across a hijabi, someone who is showing her piety and modesty? I dont mean you start a chat or sth. But isnt it that saying Salam (w/ smile ;) ) the best way to show respect. Well, you shouldnt be doing that all the time. But say, if you can open the door and say Salam as well when both of you near the entrance or sth?
Is that being flirtatious?[/quote]
no its not!!!
but as said b4, hate it wen guys look at u and salam, lower ur gaze and salam, thta the best way to go around it:-)

bro zam zam, i also get happy wen i c hijabis, it puts a gr8 smile on my face:-)
wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Lisha

07/22/01 at 17:10:27

slm,
It can b akward 2 salaam ppl out of no where, but i did it 1ce in my life on purpose:)!!!
once when i was on work experience i had this puff following me...
ne ways i saw a few bros speakin arabic, n jumped to conclusion the were muslims (which they were). So this freak is scaring me (i know u bro r laffin but honestly, im 1 of those ppl who get scard when ppl follow me), and i walked past the bros nsalaam them (i think they realised y i did dat though, they reply to my salaam, and the freak ran away:)

take care,
w'salaam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
jannah

07/22/01 at 21:01:14

wlm,

thanx for ur message zamzam.. it's pretty silly when zinna with nonmuslims is becoming quite a common disease in our ummah, ppl have an issue with saying "SALAM" to someone.. come on... there are so many hadith and verses that say one should say salam to fellow muslims, even one's you don't know. saying salam does not mean 'iwant to marry u' and any girl who thinks that seems pretty immature to me. it is very sad when muslims brothers pass us by and don't say anything..they know we're muslims obviously..we don't really know about them, but if they salam it's like we're both acknowledging..we're fellow muslims that cross paths..and that's a nice feeling during the day.

btw i think it's just common courtesy to hold the door open for someone, doesn't matter who it is~!

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
kiwi25

07/22/01 at 21:19:32

salam,
i feel the same way as most of the sisters here,

when a brother says salam to me, i respond of course,

when i see a brother i noe, it doesnt matter to me who says it first just say it, think of the reward u'll get, r we going to think "oh he wants marry me"

AHH NO!, just like jannah mentioned there are numerous hadiths saying to salam each other, not women to women, men to men,

as for lowering ur gaze, yes do that but dont say salam under your breath so we wont hear.

SALAAAM everybody :)

Nouha:)

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Saleema

07/22/01 at 22:23:28

[slm]

It makes me happy when a fellow Muslims says salam, especially if you don't know them. But I don't say salam to just any guy first cuz let's just say I had a bad experience and decided to be careful.

And sometimes you may not get the salam back because some people do think that's it's inappropriate to say salam to a sister.

[wlm]
Saleema

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
NewJehad

07/23/01 at 08:03:41

slm I don't slm women. I always thought they would be offended, or think it means as Jannah said "I want to marry you", and ask their brothers to knee cap me.
Any way, I personally feel uneasy when I see Muslim women talking to males.
Us brothers do look down on brothers who talk to women, or slm sisters they don't know. Cause it seems pretty ones get talked to more then ugly ones.
I don't think women slm guys they don't know. I would alakum salam some one I don't know if they slm me even if they are women, but I will feel that a lady I don't know will feel like I am coming on to her if I say slm to her.
It is true it is easier to tell who is a female Muslim then a ale, due to dress. But you know when a Sister sees a man with a Islamic turbine and beard, do they slm them?
I wore a turbine last rammadhan, I did get approached by women I didn't know, but they were all kaffar.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
abc

07/23/01 at 09:29:44

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah

Jehad, u've used this term so often, I just had to ask this time. Pray, tell me who/what is an "ugly woman" ?

wassalam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
mango

07/23/01 at 11:10:41

Salam abc,

When Jehad says "ugly woman," he means someone who he does not find physcially attractive and that's all to it.

wasalam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/23/01 at 13:14:01

salam
bro jehad, i don't get it!!!
y do u look down at bros that salam sisters???
therez nuthin rong in that, i actually respect most the bros that salam me.
The bros that do salam me, they usually know me through my old teachers:)
neways, if i walked past a bro that i know is a muslim, then i salam!!!
i feel like its a must, dunno y but!!!

i remember wen i was abt 5 yrs old, 1 of my teachers told me that slaming is a must, ever since i try to salam ppl, if not salam a smile:) (no :) to bros, thats just to the sisters;))

wa-salam
hope i made sense

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Lisha

07/23/01 at 18:59:22

slm,
i usually just salaam to the sisters but i also find it really nice when a muslim salaams from no where:) It make the community seem a bit friendly;)
Sr. Jannah i don't think ppl wanna marry sum1 when they salaam them, It just seems like they know ur r muslim n do not feel ashamed ti say salaam:)

take care,
w'salaam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
jannah

07/23/01 at 20:16:56

[quote]Salam abc,

When Jehad says "ugly woman," he means someone who he does not find physcially attractive and that's all to it.

wasalam[/quote]

ha ha mango ur like sooooooooooooooooooooooooo funny *not*... and i doubt jehad has the same definition as we do :)

ps for everyone else.. mango's comment is making fun of something we said earler!

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
NewJehad

07/24/01 at 06:12:04

ugly = not attractive.
opposite of pretty.
You sisters don't know males the way we do.
You are too trusting with them.
I don't mean people who are a lot older then you or a lot younger. or people you have known for a long time.
I mean people who come up to you and you don't know them.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
BrKhalid

07/24/01 at 06:32:29

Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

I know most of the people who read the posts on this board know this already but I'd just like to reassure those non muslims who frequent our board that Br jehad's views and opinions are his own and in no way are indicative of the views of all the Muslim brothers.

[quote]Us brothers do look down on brothers who talk to women[/quote]

Personally I don't make judgements.

I know a brother a few years ago who saw a brother talking to a sister and his tongue started to wag. Imagine his surprise when he realised they were man and wife!!!

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
NewJehad

07/24/01 at 08:53:17

It may surprise you but I agree with brkhalids last statement, about man and wife. We should make excuses for brothers. But brothers who do stuff in ways that will make tongs wag also have a responsibility.
Like some soft drinks come in bottles that look like alcohol. It will be very irresponsible to drink one out side the musjid.
It is true that doubting a Muslim is harram. But doing stuff in a way that will make others doubt you, is causing your brothers to do harram.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
BrKhalid

07/24/01 at 11:44:35

Asalaamu Alaikum

[quote]It may surprise you but I agree with brkhalids last statement, about man and wife. We should make excuses for brothers. [/quote]

With due respect Br jahad I didn't say we should make *excuses* for Brothers in my post.

What I *did* say is that we shouldn't doubt them or pass judgement on them.

I trust you understand the subtle difference. If not, feel free to contact me off the board and I'll explain it to you. I fear we are detracting from the subject matter of the thread

I knew it was too good to be true for you and I to agree!!! ;-)
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Nazia

07/24/01 at 13:09:33

slm,

oh man. This is one nutso conversation. :) You mean "it's [i]ok[/i]" for a husband to talk to his wife?! Why should that even be a question??? Seriously, if you see a Muslim brother talking to a Muslim sister, you have no other choice THAN to assume them to be husband and wife (or brother/sister, father/daughter,etc- mehrams basically). This is such a ridiculous concept that first we assume the worst of people, talk bad about them, look at them funny etc...UNTIL they are proven innocent! If you see two Muslims that you don't know talking to each other, turn away and get the hell on with your life. Because the truth of the matter is we are NOT allowed to cast suspicion on our brethren.

And as for the whole salam thing..why would anyone look down on a brother who says salam to a sister?? Why would anyone look down on anyone who is wishing peace upon another in the most beautiful way?? Once again, why do we ASSUME that the brothers or sisters in question have bad intentions??

You know, I like to think of myself as mild-mannered, but seriously, some things are just ridiculous! Why are we trying to make things harder on ourselves?? I can't even begin to explain how so much of this thread makes no sense on so many levels..

If a Muslim brother smiles and says salam while he holds the door open for me, why would I be so arrogant to think that obviously this bro is after me. Someone said in an earlier post how its "obvious" when a brother's intentions are pure and when they're not, and I would have to heartily disagree, because intentions are *never* obvious. Even when they are voiced, we still never know what is in the heart. I think we should stop guessing intentions and take the salam for what it is--- a greeting of peace. If the guy has freak intentions then thats his problem..not ours. We are simply fulfilling our fard by responding in kind.

ok..sorry :) kinda got my heart-rate up a little :)

Take it easy...

Wassalamu Alaikum,
Nazia
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Lisha

07/24/01 at 13:00:12

[quote]You mean "it's ok" for a husband to talk to his wife?! Ā Why should that even be a question??? Seriously, if you see a Muslim brother talking to a Muslim sister, you have no other choice THAN to assume them to be husband and wife. [/quote]slm,
If a male n a female r talkin u could asume they r any 1: brothers n sisters, father n daughter, they dont hav to b couples!!! And if their just talking then they could just b child hood friends:)

Either way sis, i agree with u:) it is wrong to assume like dat,

take care,
w'salaam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Nazia

07/24/01 at 13:08:13

[quote]If a male n a female r talkin u could asume they r any 1: brothers n sisters, father n daughter, they dont hav to b couples!!! [/quote]

yeah...that's what I meant...I should have said assume them to be mehrams, I'll correct it...tehnks.

Take Care,
Wassalam,
Nazia
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/24/01 at 14:25:53

salam
sis nazia, i hav to agree with u 100%:)
Neways, i can't c the harm in a bro saying salam!!!

My older bro ALWAYS says that he respects hijabis, and opens doors 4 em, but i can't figure out y he doesnt salam???
his xcuse= coz the gurl might think dodgy!!!
but y would she think dodgy if his gaze r lowered???

1 thing, i will NEVER nderstand bros!!!

wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Saleema

07/24/01 at 21:53:47

If a Muslim brother smiles and says salam while he holds the door open for me, why would I be so arrogant to think that obviously this bro is after me.

Agree with your post as well Nazia. But some people out there like to judge everyone and start spreading rumors and make it harder for people to greet each other with the greeting of heaven.

[wlm]
Saleema

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Anonymous

07/25/01 at 04:47:34

Salaam,
The fact is not all sisters are comfortable with non-mahrams saying
salaam to them. Its all very well sisters here saying brothers should go
ahead and do it but I've come across some sisters who think hes trying
to 'chat them up' or find it embarrasing or uncomfortable responding in
kind to a stranger. I know of others who have rudely ignored 'salaams',
leaving the brother in a not so nice situation. So when strangers are
concerned, for a brother there is concern about the potential fallout
for both parties.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
humble_muslim

07/25/01 at 06:18:20

AA

I agree with you Anon. Too many times I've said salam and got no response.

NS
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
jannah

07/25/01 at 08:49:41

ditto, esp when meeting muslim women who have just come over.. they're not used to salams.. they just kinda smile or nod if that...

but i don't think that should stop us from saying salam!

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
mango

07/25/01 at 09:28:56

jannah is right,
especially in muslim communities where muslims are in the majority..no one salams people they dont know.
but i'm in albany now so that doesnt really apply to me at the moment.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Ruqayyah

07/25/01 at 11:43:20

[slm]

[quote]when meeting muslim women who have just come over.. they're not used to salams.. they just kinda smile or nod if that...[/qoute]

I've run across this a lot this summer at my fellowship at a hospital where they have a lot of international patients, so I see SO many muslim women, and I am always the first one to say salam. Sometimes they say salam back sometimes they just smile. It was really surprsing at first to me too, but i guess they're used to being in a Muslim majority country. And it was funny becuase i would be so excited when i first started working there and i would see 5 or 6 muslim families a day!

[wlm]
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Barr

07/25/01 at 12:20:33

Assalamu'alaikum :)

U guys really crack me up *L*

Here we r, in the Ikhwan Folder, for the male participation and concerns... but

Who starts the thread? ===> A Sister
Who responds more to the thread? ===> Sisters
And who's posting this message? ===> altogether now: A SISTER!

Just to add:

I was quite shocked at first by the no. of salams by brothers, that I received when I was in the UK... and all of the salams seems sincere, mashaALlah... so, no problems in responding.. but the initial shock did leave me... a bit dumbfounded.

coz, in Singapore/ Malaysia, if brothers (strangers) give salam, then, most probably, they're doing it out of mere fun or to tease her. So, we would usually ignore them, and they'll say,"It's a sin to not reply a salam, U know!" So, we'll actually reply it in our hearts.

But now that I am older *ahem*... and of course, I receive less salams... but when one of those odd salams come... I'd just reply and walk on... so far, it has left those brothers dumbfounded!
*heh heh* don't mess with me, now. :-)

But seriously, I appreciate a sincere salam....
But I'd never say a salam to a stranger brother, unless, I know him - but then again, he won't be a stranger then.

wassalam :)
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Asim

07/25/01 at 12:32:48

Assalaamu alaikum,

I am trying to picture this ...

You are walking through a crowded bazaar in Lahore, Pakistan (say Anaarkali, for those familiar with the place). Throngs of men and women are walking, shoulder to shoulder, in narrow alleys. And you go on a salaam spree.

salaam, salaam, assalaamu alaikum, salaam bro, assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, salaam sis, ...

People will think you are nuts, call the police, and cart you away to mental hospital.

salaam doctor... QUIET!

:)

If I know the sister (even if I haven't talked to her, but I know she knows me in the community) then I would say salaam. If we are complete strangers and cross paths where seeing muslims is common then probably no. But if I am traveling, like at airports, then I would try to say salaam if our paths cross. Or when seeing muslims is an rare encounter. In the end, it depends on the situation. You can't be expected to be paying attention all the time (I know this is a huge problem for me) and be vigilant as to who you should salaam whom not.

Wasalaam.
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
NewJehad

07/25/01 at 12:50:47

slm
I think people should remember that Islam does not allow free-mixing of unrelated of people of the opposite sex. Even if they consider their meetings as purely platonic.
I think even though people in the west claim to view things differently, inside they feel the same way, I don't think there are many people who will feel comfortable if they see their spouse busy chatting away to some stranger?

No, I'm not bitter...
se7en

07/25/01 at 14:31:55

as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah,

I think what aggravates a lot of people is this kind of double standard we have when it comes to our behaviour with other Muslims.

It makes me so mad when there's a brother 'too modest' to say salaam to me in the hall and I see him the next day with his arm around some blonde chick.. when a brother refuses to come to msa meetings because they're "mixed" but is known to be a player.. when brothers look at sisters who come to the masjid for salah like they're 'loose' and then I see you look up and down at women walking down the street..

If it's Betsy from the office a lot of guys have no problem saying hello, asking how her day was, if she wants more coffee.. but if you see a sister on the train you look the other way and pretend you don't see her? Does that seem right to you?

I think this reflects a type of hypocricy and two-facedness. Sisters are guilty of this as well at times. I think that there's definitely something wrong with that.

My issue with this whole notion of "why, men and women shouldn't communicate! that's wrong!" is that often times that *only* comes into play with Muslim sisters.

Yes, I realize that it's a lot more difficult to be.. I guess vigilante about that level of modesty between men and women with people who don't understand the concept and can be offended by it.. but I think a lot of times we abuse that and allow ourselves to act in a way we shouldn't.. and we forget that we shouldn't be apologetic about Islam in any aspect, including how we should act with the opposite sex.. I don't even think there's a need to be as friendly as we are sometimes.. if you act a certain way people will come to accept and even appreciate it..

And this is like a disease that goes a lot deeper than saying salaam to someone on the street.. that's only a manifestation of a type of attitude certain people have.. an attitude that has permeated our communities and our understanding of the way Muslim men and women should interact. We have these extremes when it comes to how we interact with each other.. and because these extremes are not maintainable we act differently around people who don't know the difference..

All *I* would ask of you is to just be REAL. Don't front. If you don't give your salaam to a sister, ask yourself why. Is this consistent with your behavior? Are you refusing to say salaam because you're worried about what others may think? Because you don't want to be identified as Muslim? Or what?

If you do say salaam, question yourself as well. Are you saying salaam because you're trying to kick it to the sister? Or because you want her to notice you and go, mashaAllah? Or what?

I don't know man.. I think this whole double standard thing is why I get upset when a brother doesn't say salaam..

wAllahu 'alam..

ps -- Asim, I do that at ISNA :)

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Anonymous

07/25/01 at 14:37:13

I don't think "maintainable" is a word.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Saleema

07/25/01 at 14:59:46

[slm]

Women at the masjid sometimes don't give salam back. It makes me very sa. :( They just stare at me, don't even smile. But i try to say salam in hopes that at least Allah will reward me for it.

anyone else come across that? When women in the masjid don't reply to your salam even though they heard you and look you up and down like a man would?

[wlm]
Saleema

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
jannah

07/25/01 at 18:35:56

main·tain·able /-'tA- n& -b &l/ adjective

webster.com

what this has to do with anything, i don't know but i guess it will help scrabble fans :)
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/25/01 at 19:23:43

[quote]
anyone else come across that? When women in the masjid don't reply to your salam even though they heard you and look you up and down like a man would?
[/quote]

salam,
i know EXACTLY wat u mean:)
the women at our local mosque r usualy ok, but sumtimes wen i don't know ne1, then NO1 salams back, aaaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhh!!!

wa-salam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
NewJehad

07/26/01 at 06:19:17

slm
seven said " think what aggravates a lot of people is this kind of double standard
we have when it comes to our behaviour with other Muslims. "
I don't think it is to do with double standards but respect.
People see Muslim women as respectable and don't want to make them feel uncomfortable by approaching them.
A kaffar girl in one of my Arabic classes was asked why she wanted to learn Arabic. She said that her sister lives in UAE and she wants to go there too because she learnt from her sister that it is really nice there as men don't go up to women and chat to them. And she said she finds it really irritating in Europe as she keeps getting unwanted attention from men.
The kaffar may attack us on some things from our culture, instead of rejecting all parts of our culture that the kaffar don't like we should look at them properly and decide for our selves what's better.
I don't personally go up to Muslim women and talk to them at times I would have talked to a kaffar. As I feel that the Muslim women may feel uncomfortable by it and take it as unwarranted attention. It isn't to do with double standards, it is to do with being considerate of her feelings.
A lot of fasiq and kaffar men I know feel the same way about this. They often chat to, and do other stuff with kaffar women and semi-naked Muslimahs, but will not talk to a hijabi out of respect and knowing that it might offend her.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
zamzam

07/26/01 at 07:25:58

[center][color=Green][slm]
Well, it is one's weakness in avoiding Muslimah with this behavior. It is not being considerate of a muslima's modesty; it is choosing the easy path. 'cos talking to a hijabi u need to follow Islam. Talking to any one else u talk as the world talks.
And I dont mean one shouldnt talk to non-muslim or 'unhijabi muslima'.
In that case it's really being considerate of them in not offending them by staying aloof.
But how can one stay aloof w/ their own sisters w/ an excuse that some find it offending. It is sometimes true but dont u want reward from Allah, if it was sincere.
Command of Allah and prophet [saw] weighs more than some odd ones odd understanding of adab.

[wlm]
[/color]
[/center]
Zamzam

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Justin

07/26/01 at 07:48:20

Salaam alaikum,

I am not sure where I read this but I think there is a Sunnah as to how to approach this. Insha'Allah I will try and find it and post it. What it said was that if you see a single young woman you shouldn't give her salaam, but if you see a group of women you can give them salaam. Also, if you see an old woman you can give her salaam.

I'll try and find the source, but this is what I've started trying to observe.

Wa salaam,
Justin

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
humble_muslim

07/26/01 at 11:02:28

AA

"A lot of fasiq and kaffar men I know feel the same way about this. "

How can we judge whether anyone is a "fasiq" ? Is there a rule on the board against this ?

NS
Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Asim

07/26/01 at 12:48:58

The importance of giving the salaam and returning the greeting
http://65.193.50.117/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=4596&dgn=2

Praise be to Allaah.

All people have the custom of greeting one another, and every group has its own distinctive greeting that distinguishes them from other people.

The Arabs used to greet one another with the words “An’im sabaahan” or “An’imu sabaahan” [equivalent to “Good morning” – Translator], using words derived from “al-ni’mah”, which means good living after the morning. The idea was that because the morning is the first part of the day, if a person encounters something good in the morning, the rest of the day will be good too.

When Islam came, Allaah prescribed that the manner of greeting among Muslims should be “Al-salaamu alaykum,” and that this greeting should only be used among Muslims and not for other nations. The meaning of salaam (literally, peace) is harmlessness, safety and protection from evil and from faults. The name al-Salaam is a Name of Allaah, may He be exalted, so the meaning of the greeting of salaam which is required among Muslims is, “May the blessing of His Name descend upon you.” The usage of the preposition ‘ala in ‘alaykum (upon you) indicates that the greeting is inclusive.

Ibn al-Qayyim said in Badaa’i' al-Fawaa’id (144):

“Allaah, the Sovereign, the Most Holy, the Peace, prescribed that the greeting among the people of Islam should be ‘al-salaamu ‘alaykum’, which is better than all the greetings of other nations which include impossible ideas or lies, such as saying, ‘May you live for a thousand years,’ or things that are not accurate, such as ‘An’im sabaahan (Good morning),’ or actions that are not right, such as prostrating in greeting. Thus the greeting of salaam is better than all of these, because it has the meaning of safety which is life, without which nothing else can be achieved. So this takes precedence over all other aims or objectives. A person has two main aims in life: to keep himself safe from evil, and to get something good. Keeping safe from evil takes precedence over getting something good…”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made spreading salaam a part of faith. Al-Bukhaari (12, 28 and 6236), Muslim (39), Ahmad (2/169), Abu Dawood (5494), al-Nisaa’i, (8/107) and Ibn Hibbaan (505) narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar that a man asked the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “What is the best thing in Islam?” He said, “Feeding others and giving the greeting of salaam to those whom you know and those whom you do not know.”

Ibn Hajar said in al-Fath (1/56):

“i.e., do not single out anybody out of arrogance or to impress them, but do it to honour the symbols of Islam and to foster Islamic brotherhood.”

Ibn Rajab said in al-Fath (1/43):

“The hadeeth makes the connection between feeding others and spreading salaam because this combines good actions in both word and deed, which is perfect good treatment (ihsaan). Indeed, this is the best thing that you can do in Islam after the obligatory duties.”

Al-Sanoosi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1/244):

“What is meant by salaam is the greeting between people, which sows seeds of love and friendship in their hearts, as does giving food. There may be some weakness in the heart of one of them, which is dispelled when he is greeted, or there may be some hostility, which is turned to friendship by the greeting.”

Al-Qaadi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1:276):

“Here the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was urging the believers to soften their hearts. The best Islamic attitude is to love one another and greet one another, and this is achieved by words and deeds. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) urged the Muslims to foster love between one another by exchanging gifts and food, and by spreading salaam, and he forbade the opposite, namely forsaking one another, turning away from one another, spying on one another, seeking out information about one another, stirring up trouble and being two faced.

Love is one of the duties of Islam and one of the pillars of the Islamic system. One should give salaams to those whom one knows and those whom one does not know, out of sincerity towards Allaah; one should not try to impress other people by giving salaams only to those whom one knows and no-one else. This also entails an attitude of humility and spreading the symbols of this ummah through the word of salaam.”

Thus the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained that this salaam spreads love and brotherhood. Muslim (54), Ahmad (2/391), and al-Tirmidhi (2513) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you about something which, if you do it, you will love one another? Spread salaam amongst yourselves.”

Al-Qaadi ‘Ayaad said in al-Ikmaal (1/304):

“This is urging us to spread salaam, as mentioned above, among those whom we know and those whom we do not know. Salaam is the first level of righteousness and the first quality of brotherhood, and it is the key to creating love. By spreading salaam the Muslims’ love for one another grows stronger and they demonstrate their distinctive symbols and spread a feeling of security amongst themselves. This is the meaning of Islam.”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also explained the reward earned by the one who says salaam, as was reported by al-Nisaa’i in ‘Aml al-yawm wa’l-laylah (368) and al-Bukhaari in al-Adab al-Mufrad (586) and by Ibn Hibban (493). They reported from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that a man passed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) whilst he was sitting with some others, and said “Salaam ‘alaykum (peace be upon you).” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “[He will have] ten hasanaat (rewards).” Another man passed by and said “Salaam ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaah (peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah).” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “[He will have] twenty hasanaat.” Another man passed by and said “Salaam ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaahi wa barakaatuhu (peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah and His blessings).” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “[He will have] thirty hasanaat.”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to return salaams, and made it a right and a duty. Ahmad (2/540), al-Bukhaari (1240), Muslim (2792), al-Nisaa’i in al-Yawm wa’l-Laylah (221) and Abu Dawood (5031) all reported that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslim has five rights over his fellow-Muslim: he should return his salaams, visit him when he is sick, attend his funeral, accept his invitation, and pray for mercy for him [say “Yarhamuk Allaah”] when he sneezes.”

It is clear that it is obligatory to say salaam and return salaams, because by doing so a Muslim is giving you safety and you have to give him safety in return. It is as if he is saying to you, “I am giving you safety and security,” so you have to give him the same, so that he does not get suspicious or think that the one to whom he has given salaam is betraying him or ignoring him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that if Muslims are ignoring or forsaking one another, this will be put to an end when one of them gives salaam. Al-Bukhaari (6233) reported that Abu Ayyoob (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘It is not permissible for a Muslim to forsake his brother for more than three days, each of them turning away from the other if they meet. The better of them is the first one to say salaam.’”

This is a brief overview of the importance of giving and returning salaam.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Asim

07/26/01 at 12:51:50

From islam-qa.com
http://65.193.50.117/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=1121&dgn=2

Question:

My question is about the adab or the manner between a brother and sister?
I need clarifcation, are we allowed to give salam to sister who is not your muhram or talk to her as you talk to a brother, and how much you allowed to talk?
and what about the non-muhram who are cousine, for example the uncles daughter Am I allowed to give salam and talk to her, and how is her life?please provide for me daleel(proof) and what about marriage?
what allowed talk and salam, ( what is allowed and not) all these things!
because today people mixed between culture and deen, when you tell them about that they say you are bringing new religon!, even alot brothers who relgious don't know this, you may see salafy brother talking weetlgy to sister who were nikab and not his muhram,

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

In brief, what the fuqaha’ have said about women’s voices is that they are not ‘awrah in and of themselves, and there is nothing wrong with listening to them when there is a need to do so, so they do not forbid listening to them, but certain conditions apply, as follows:

The woman should speak without elongating the words, making her voice soft, or raising her voice. It is haraam for a man to listen with enjoyment, for fear of fitnah (temptation).

The decisive factor for knowing what is haraam in the matter of women’s speaking is what is included in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allaah), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.” [al-Ahzaab 33:32]

What is forbidden is being too soft in speech. It is obligatory for women to speak in an honourable manner, which means, as the mufassireen explained, that they should not make their voices soft when addressing men. In conclusion, what is required of the Muslim woman when she speaks to a non-mahram man is that she should adhere to what is mentioned in this aayah. She should refrain from what is forbidden and should fulfil her duties. She should speak only when necessary, and only about matters that are permissible and honourable, not evil. Between a woman and a non-mahram man there should be no intonation, gestures, chat, joking, flirting or playful talk, so that there will be no room for provocation of desires and doubts. Women are not prevented from talking to non-mahram men when it is necessary to do so, such as dealing directly with them when buying things or conducting any other financial transaction, because in such cases it is necessary for both parties to speak. A woman may also ask a scholar about some legal Islamic matter, or a man may ask a woman such questions, as is proven in various texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Within the guidelines described above, there is nothing wrong with a woman speaking to a non-mahram man. It is also permissible for men to greet women with salaam and vice versa, according to the most correct opinion, but this greeting must be free of anything that may provoke desire in the person in whose heart is a disease, so as to be safe from fitnah and pay attention to the regulations outlined above.

If there is fear of fitnah being provoked by this greeting, then the woman should refrain from either initiating or returning the greeting, because warding off fitnah by neglecting the greeting is warding off mischief, and warding off mischief takes precedence over doing something useful. (See al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah by ‘Abd al-Kareem Zaydaan, vol 3/276). And Allaah knows best.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
taueeya

07/31/01 at 06:23:15

Assalamu Alaikum,

Sorry for being late again on this thread but I found out some weaknesses in my philosophies/concepts after going through Ahadeeth from Riad-us-Saliheen and posts in this thread. I will be more than happy to accept them here on board and clear up a few misconcepts although many of them have already been cleared by Br. Asim's last 2 posts. I'll have to pull back some posts to quote from the first page to clear up things.

[quote]how r us sisters supposed to know if ur a muslim or not
we hav our hijabs to show that were muslins, u don't!!![/quote]

Actually, I never thought in this context that sisters do have some thing i-e their hijab as a proof that they are Muslimahs whereas we brothers don't have anything that proves 100% of us being Muslims. I appologize to all sisters for what I wrote in my previous post on the first page.( I hate myself when I act so dumb! and get flowed away with emotions so easily). So, agreed 100% that brothers shall initiate salaam if need be but there are certain conditions to this which will be evident by Ahaadeeth quoted below.

[quote]It makes me so mad when there's a brother 'too modest' to say salaam to me in the hall and I see him the next day with his arm around some blonde chick.. when a brother refuses to come to msa meetings because they're "mixed" but is known to be a player.. when brothers look at sisters who come to the masjid for salah like they're 'loose' and then I see you look up and down at women walking down the street..[/quote]

Sister se7en, agreed with u that it looks hypocrisy to me as well.

[quote]If it's Betsy from the office a lot of guys have no problem saying hello, asking how her day was, if she wants more coffee.. but if you see a sister on the train you look the other way and pretend you don't see her? Does that seem right to you?[/quote]

That's where I don't agree. This is like u are mixing the American culture with our religion. Saying hi hello to a blonde at ur work place and uttering 2 or 3 sentences to her is like fulfillment of the formality and following the etiquettes of the western culture but that does not necessarily mean that u shall treat a hijabi/niqabi sister same way, also working in the same work environment as your colleague. I don't see any hypocrisy in this case. Rather I would observe the modesty/shyness that is there in between the Muslim brother and sister and try to keep it as it is supposed to be kept. All I mean to say is that "niyyah" is to be observed here and Allah knows better.

[quote]I am trying to picture this ...

You are walking through a crowded bazaar in Lahore, Pakistan (say Anaarkali, for those familiar with the place). Throngs of men and women are walking, shoulder to shoulder, in narrow alleys. And you go on a salaam spree.

salaam, salaam, assalaamu alaikum, salaam bro, assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, salaam sis, ...

People will think you are nuts, call the police, and cart you away to mental hospital.

salaam doctor... QUIET![/quote]

From the Book of Salutations from Riyad-us-Saliheen:

Narrated At-Tufail bin Ubayy bin Ka'ab(RA): I used to visit 'Abdullah bin 'Umar(RA) in the morning and accompany him to the market. 'Abdullah offered salutations of peace to every one he met on the way, be they sellers of petty goods, traders or poor people. One day when I came to him, he asked me to accompany him into the market. I said to him: "What is the point of your going to the market when u do not sell, nor ask about articles, nor offer a price for them, nor sit down with any company of people. Let us sit down here and talk." He replied: "O Abu Batn (belly)! (Tufail had a large belly), we go to the market to greet everyone we meet." [Malik]

Commentary: This Hadith highlights 'Abdullah bin 'Umar's passion for bringing salam in vogue which is subject to the practice of Sunnah. Secondly, we can call a person by his epithetic name provided it is not derogatory to and hard upon him.

So Br. Asim, it is our weakness that we find it difficult to follow the sunnah today but at least it used to happen on this earth 1400 years back.

[quote]ps -- Asim, I do that at ISNA [/quote]

Impressive sister! May Allah(swt) guide us all to the best in following sunnah as HE wills(Ameen!).

The final conflict on this thread i-e exchange of the greetings between a brother and sister. Here is what I found out in Riyad-us-Saliheen almost similar in explanation to what Br. Asim has posted in his last post.

Narrated Asma bint Yazid (RA): Allah's Messenger[saw] passed by us when we were with a party of women, and he saluted us. [Abu Dawud]

Commentary: The permissibility of men to greet women, and vice versa, is with the condition that there will be no fear of temptation to commit the unlawful. Here are the details:

1.A young woman is forbidden to greet men and to respond to their greeting.

2. A group of women or an old woman are allowed to greet men and to respond to men's greetings. Men are also allowed to greet a group of women or an old woman.

3.A man on his own is not allowed to greet a young woman.

4. A man on his own is allowed to greet a group of women.

However, in all these cases, Islamic rules in this regard, including the lowering of gaze, are to be observed.

Narrated Abu Hurairah (RA): Allah's Messenger[saw] said,"A rider should salute a pedestrian; a pedestrian should salute one who is sitting; and a small group should salute a large group (of people)." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The narration in Al-Bukhari adds: Allah's Messenger[saw] said,"The young should greet the elderly."

Commentary: The greeting of peace should be uttered according to the prescribed way. It is the situations under reference and not the grades which will be taken into consideration in this respect.

Narrated Asma bint Yazid(RA): Allah's Messenger[saw] passed through the mosque one day and there was a group of women (about ten of them) sitting in the mosque. He raised his hand to offer salutations.[At-Tirmidhi]

Commentary: To offer As-Salam by the gesture of a hand from a distance is forbidden in Islam because it is the way of Non-Muslims. However, it is allowed if words are also uttered along with it. Secondly, allah's Messenger[saw] could greet women because he was sinless and permanently stood under Allah's protection. Yet, it is not permissible to other men for the fear of provoking temptation. But this Hadith can be carried into effect in case one feels that no temptation and evil will be involved in it. For example, a man can greet aged and respectable women. However, salutation to young women is not allowed as it can give birth to wickedness.

BTW, I love this board when it teaches me, even the harder way (i-e when I make mistakes that I don't expect myself to make, like the one I made in this thread).

Wassalam.

Re: hijabi, wat do u do???
Mahmoodah

07/31/01 at 12:35:18

salam,
i think its better to salam 1st, as our prophet (saw) was ALWAYS the 1st to salam!!!
so i gotta say that the bros hav an better chance of saying salam 1st!!!!

wa-salam

Individual posts do not necessarily reflect the views of Jannah.org, Islam, or all Muslims. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster and may not be used without consent of the author.
The rest © Jannah.Org