Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Plural Marriages Issue |
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| Anonymous |
| 08/13/01 at 20:48:21 |
| I am interested in marrying a second wife. However, my curent wife says she cannot bare being a co-wife and it's not for her! She say's if I marry again she'll leave!!! I have been married to her for 5 years and we both have tried very hard to have a second child insha'Allah, but we both know it's only from Allaah that we do so. This has put me in an awkward situation since my wife is 46 yrs old and having another child at this age maybe a problem. I reflect back to the Qur'an regarding this issue using Ibrahim and Zakiriyaah's issues to help me be patient and continue to pray on it. We've been trying to have another child for the last 2 years and some... My issue is, How can a woman say plural marriage isn't for her when Allaah gave men this right. How can one think that the Qur'an has a flaw in it or this deen isn't complete, nad that everything Allaah legislates has benefit in it or He (awj) would not have legislated the matter. If one says the believe that there is NO deity worthy of worship except Allaah "alone" and that Muhammad (SAW) is His Messenger, how can you only take part of it and leave the rest. We are suppossed to come into this deen "wholeheartedly"! Can this be classified as an Aqeedah problem and what should I do? Do I try and be patient (which I've already have)? Do I marry again and deal with the situation once it arises? Do I divorce my wife if she refuses me to practice this Sunnah holding it over and against me? I feel as though I am being held prisoner to her "sunnah" and not the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (SAW). I am one who cannot compromise my deen for anyone...This makes me almost rebellious and want to marry regardless of what she thinks, just so she can get over it! I love this deen, and I want to do anything that will get me closer to Jannah insha'Allaah. We are encouraged to take other wifes due to the large numbers of women in our communities. Please advise... |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| jannah |
| 08/13/01 at 20:49:20 |
| slm, sounds like a difficult situation brother. [quote] My issue is, How can a woman say plural marriage isn't for her when Allaah gave men this right. How can one think that the Qur'an has a flaw in it or this deen isn't complete, nad that everything Allaah legislates has benefit in it or He (awj) would not have legislated the matter. [/quote] one thing i'd have to add here is just because something has been made permissible does not mean that it is BEST for everyone. in fact it's very permissibility should show how wide and diverse our shariah is to provide for so many situations. so many things have been made permissible for us that doesn't mean we HAVE to do those things. just because she personally does not think it is beneficial for your personal marriage, lifestyle etc doesn't mean she doesn't beleive it's part of the deen. [quote] If one says the believe that there is NO deity worthy of worship except Allaah "alone" and that Muhammad (SAW) is His Messenger, how can you only take part of it and leave the rest. We are suppossed to come into this deen "wholeheartedly"! Can this be classified as an Aqeedah problem and what should I do? [/quote] where does it say you're not a good muslim if you don't participate in a polygamous marriage? it's not even a legislated sunnah? unless your wife is saying polygamous marriages are not allowed in islam period, i don't believe she has any aqeedah problem. [quote] Do I try and be patient (which I've already have)? Do I marry again and deal with the situation once it arises? Do I divorce my wife if she refuses me to practice this Sunnah holding it over and against me? [/quote] honestly i think that you've made up your mind that you would like to do this and you're using the "sunnah" argument to push her into it. i really don't think you need to do that.. the sunnah argument doesn't make sense to me and probably not to her. but you do have a valid reason for wanting a second marriage, a reason why polygamy is probably made permissible in islam in the first place for situations like these. [quote] I feel as though I am being held prisoner to her "sunnah" and not the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (SAW). I am one who cannot compromise my deen for anyone...This makes me almost rebellious and want to marry regardless of what she thinks, just so she can get over it! [/quote] again brother this doesn't make much sense.. no one is making you compromise your "deen", it doesn't seem like she is preventing you from doing it (ie it is permissible to her), but she is saying she will not be able to handle it. i would advise you to think long and hard before doing something your wife is quite plainly against. marriages have ended over less. [quote] I love this deen, and I want to do anything that will get me closer to Jannah insha'Allaah. We are encouraged to take other wifes due to the large numbers of women in our communities. [/quote] Is that really why you want to marry a second wife? Does our deen also encourage us to do things against our wives wishes.. to the detriment of their feelings and relationship? [quote] Please advise... [/quote]i would suggest arbritration... a family member of yours, one of hers and someone you trust.. a judge/qadi or imam that can help you both come to a conclusion in this matter. w'Allahu alam |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| Merimda |
| 08/13/01 at 22:07:58 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, Insha-Allah I think you should think about the good and the bad of both options. Think hard of the consequences of your choice. Which is more khair and which choice will only cause only more unecessary hardship. Is having a second wife and child more of a priority than keeping your current family intact. Is divorcing your first wife really worth it? What about your first child? What is to become of him or her. <<Do I try and be patient (which I've already have)? Do I marry again and deal with the situation once it arises? Do I divorce my wife if she refuses me to practice this Sunnah holding it over and against me?>> Keep in mind dear brother that divorce is one of the most detestable of the permissble things in Islam. Is it really worth divorcing your wife over this issue? I had friend who's father married a second wife behind her back. And I tell you it caused the family so much pain and agony. My friend's mother was so distraught and it caused the children so much pain seeing their mother so. Furthemore, they were also hurt when they found that their father was constantly a subject of gossip among the community. So you have to keep these things in mind. Thus I am not advising that you should marry a second wife or not. I am only advocating that you think long and hard about the consequences of your choices. What are the priorities? Which choice will be the most khair for everyone involved. Make Istikharah insha-Allah and hopefully Allah will guide you to the right choice. Wa' Allahu Alam salam, Merimda EDIT: Just an after thought... When the Prophet (pbuh) proposed to marry Umm Salama (ra) did she not warn him that she was a jealous woman? And the Prophet (pbuh)said that he would pray that Allah would remove jealousy from her heart. Am I correct here or do I have my facts wrong? If I am correct then did Umm Salam not imply here that being a co-wife is not for her due to her jealousy? If this is the case than your wife (wa-Allahu alam) has a right to say that it is not for her. Anyway I'll stop now before I say anything wrong. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can shed more light on this issue. |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/14/01 at 01:43:21 |
| [slm] I have to be careful what I say here, because it can be misinterpreted. May Allah help me with this ... First, you're definitely in a dilemma yaa akhee, and may Allah help you do whatever is best. I would definitely consult a knowledgeable person in your area or close to it rather than any Tom, Dick or Harry. There might be other alternatives that you may not be aware of, or that you are not thinking about, which others can bring to your attention. But only those can do that who are close to you and know your situation well. Second, it should be realized here that what your wife is doing is wrong. She should not force you not to marry another wife, especially in such a situation. Her displeasure at being a co-wife is natural and acceptable (as is beautifully explained by Mermida's example of Umm Salamah), but that feeling should not result in her doing what she is doing. Before the marriage, you have the right to make it a condition with your husband, the he will not take another wife. However, after marriage, she does not have the right to stop her husband from taking another wife as long as he promises to (and is capable of) do justice between both of his wives. However, just because your wife is making a mistake (which is NOT, by the way, in any way equivalent to kufr ... audhubillah) doesn't mean that you go ahead and commit another wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right yaa akhee. And this is why you need to consult a wise person in this matter rather than make a hasty decision. May Allah help you and your wife. Pray istikhaarah as well. And know that, sometimes, there is hikmah in things that we don't like. Wassalaamu alaikum. |
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| NewJehad |
| 08/14/01 at 11:45:26 |
| slm I think if you want another wife, go ahead and get one. Your first wife has no right of divorce as long as you carry on giving her what Islam has ordered you to give her. Permission of the first wife is not a requirement to marrying a second. A lot of people might see what I have writ as harsh, but we need to remember the state of affairs we are living in since Muslims decided to imitate the people before us and abandon polygamy. Today many women have no chance of getting married ever because to many women are to selfish to share their husbands and to many husbands are to cowardly to go against the whims of their first wives. People might tell you to think about how your first wife will feel if you marry a second. But how will the potential second feel if no one marries her ever. If she has to live her whole life alone, never knowing the comforts of male company? Remember zina is harram. In western countries loads more women become Muslim then men. Islam tells them they can only marry Muslims, but reality tells them there aren’t enough Muslim men to go around because too many people have forbidding themselves from doing what Islam has made lawful. Put yourself in the minds of such women, and try to think how they must feel. Also think about the divorced and widowed, and think about their kids not having a father. Think about the girls who have sacrificed their youth obtaining knowledge of the deen. And think what is really best. Satisfying the whims of your first, or doing what you want to do and what Allah has made lawful for you. |
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| akhan |
| 08/14/01 at 12:36:17 |
| Asalaamalaikum, Does anyone know why the best of creation (SAW) asked master Ali (RAO) not to marry another after Fatima (RAO)? I think he (SAW) said something to the effect that if Fatima was hurt, he would also hurt. What if getting into a plural marriage sends the first wife into depression? Is that a reason enough not to marry another woman? Also, related to conception, does not Allah (SWT) leave some women barron (without children)for a reason he alone knows? If the reason to get into a plural marriage is due to problems with conception, why not take care of an orphan? There is immense reward in that. Insha Allah, I think we all need to make the intentions behind our actions sincere. If we want to marry another, we need to make sure it is for the right reason. We will all wake up one day and have to answer to Allah (SWT), for everything we do (even an atoms worth) is accounted. I suggest you take advice from someone with sound Islamic knowledge as mentioned earlier. And Allah (SWT) knows best. |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/14/01 at 13:02:39 |
| [slm] Brother Jehad, though I agree with most of what you have said in theory, I strongly disagree with the following statement:[quote]I think if you want another wife, go ahead and get one.[/quote]Again, in theory, you may be right. But would this be a [i]wise[/i] thing to do? If the wife is openly against living with another wife, by taking another wife you will only be messing up the lives of not one but 3 people at least! Add to those 3 the child that the anonymous brother already has, as well as future children that he may have. Think about this for a minute. If the brother ends up getting a divorce from his wife who is now old, the entire family will break. What effect will it have on the child? Who will take care of the widowed lady? Doing things against the will of the spouse, and forcing them on the spouse, is *never* a good idea, [i]regardless of who is right and who is wrong[/i]. Wait for a little while. Keep talking to the spouse. Try to convince him/her. Get some arbitrators/counselors involved. Get on the same page first, and *then* execute your plan. That is what marriage is all about, I think. I admit I'm no expert! (and this is why I told the anonymous brother to talk to someone else about this) But ya'nee, isn't this common sense?? Wassalamu alaikum P.S. akhan, Fatima (r.a.) was not the only wife that Ali (r.a.) had. Indeed he married other women and had children from them. |
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| momineqbal |
| 08/14/01 at 13:38:50 |
| [slm], Most people giving advice to you here are unmarried people including me. But inshaAllah they think before they write. I liked the idea of taking care of an orphan if having children is the only reason you want to marry again. One sister who had been to a conference on adopting parents told us that there are many muslim children who have no one to take care of them (she said in that particular conference, just one organisation had 2000 such children on their list). So these muslim children will end up being adopted by a Christian or Jew or other non-muslim parents. So there is some food for thought for you and an opportunity to get closer to Allah and strive for His jannah!!! Wassalam |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| *sofia* |
| 08/14/01 at 17:11:17 |
| Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah Someone had mentioned that the Rasul (s) had stated that Fatimah (r) would be hurt if 'Ali (r) married another wife, and if Fatimah hurt, he (s) hurt. Masha'Allah, that was our Prophet (s). And masha'Allah, 'Ali understood the situation at hand. Although 'Ali did marry other wives, just to clarify (and please correct me if I'm wrong), 'Ali did not marry anyone else until *after* Fatimah's death...which was not long after the Rasul's (s). Sorry for the interruption, carry on. :) |
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| Saleema |
| 08/14/01 at 18:25:48 |
| Before the marriage, you have the right to make it a condition with your husband, the he will not take another wife. However, after marriage, she does not have the right to stop her husband from taking another wife as long as he promises to (and is capable of) do justice between both of his wives. I agree, even though I am a woman. But you also have to think about if making your first wife unhappy will solve your problems if you take a second wife. Is the price worth it? I agree with most of what Jehad said, that many women go unmarried because of the stricts monogamous marital relationships that we have adopted. Did you know that in Nigeria women actually protested that men need to start taking more than one wife because many nigerian muslim women never marry because of lack of men? But I don't agree that just because you want another wife to go out there and get one. You have to consider your first wives feelings too and also women need to start being considerate too. But anyway, that's another story. I can see you want happiness, that you want children and your first wife can't bear children. But is it worth it to make her unahappy in order to try to have children with a second wife? Would you be happy about that? Or would that cause more stress in your life? And why not adopt children? If you adopt an orphan Allah will reward you for it inshallah. However just because your wife feels that way does not imply any lack of iman on her part. Really, it does not mean that. So give her the credit that she deserves please and don't giver her religious abuse. This life is transitory. In the end we won't even care about our spouses, on the Day of Judgement we will only worry about saving our own skins. "No bearer of burden can bear the burdens of another." This life is sacrifice for the sake of Allah. Either you sacrifice and be patient and Allah will reward you for it, or your wife needs to sacrifice and be patient and Allah will reward her for it inshallah. One of you has to give in. And the upper hand is always the better hand-- remember that. Not my advise but the advise of our beloved Prophet. [wlm] |
| Re: Plural Marriages Issue |
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| NewJehad |
| 08/15/01 at 10:33:54 |
| slm Before I reply to any one I want to say one fact. Polygamy was not started by Islam for any reasons. polygamy has always been the norm. the pagan roman emperor Justinion forbade it for his empire, and the Christians of Europe kept up his pagan tradition. People used to marry more then one long before Islam, when it came and the people became Muslim, people with more then 4 were ordered to pick fore and divorce the rest. Akhan: Polygamy was never forbidden by Islam, and our prophet never forbade what Allah made lawful. I have heard the anti Polygamy argument you mentioned before, it was invented by the western colonialists to attack Islam and slander the prophet. It is only part of the truth. Ali rd was about to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. The prophet told him the daughter of Allah’s messenger and the daughter of Allah’s enemy can not be placed under one roof. This incident has nothing to do with polygamy. The incident took place after the fall of Makkah, when every one was becoming Muslim, believers and none believers. A lot of whom still had extreme hatred for Islam. As I mentioned above, more kids has nothing to do with polygamy being lawful. There is nothing wrong in a sterile man seeking another wife. As long as he lets her know of his defect. And there is nothing wrong in getting married to barren women. Arslan: She might be upset by it but she has no right of divorce. The only way she can get one is if the man willingly gives it, or if the man does some thing or doesn’t do some thing that will give her that right. Even if the wife frightens to kill herself if the man marries another, he commits no wrong for doing so. Whatever the wife does if he marries another, it is her who is doing so. Not the man. It’s kind of like me saying to you, “buy me a car or I will eat a pork sandwich”. I agree the man should explain stuff to her, and also get others to. But at the end of the day the laws is clear. And the man knows what he wants better then us so it is up to him to decide what he wants. And as long as Allah has made it lawful, no one has the right to criticise him for it. Momineqbal. In Islam looking after the orphans is a very good deed. It is not adoption though, we don’t have that in Islam. The children we look after are not our own, they can marry our own kids, and have no right to inherit. Other then the third we might write for them in our wills. A friend of mine has adopted a kid, he has many of his own and it looks like he is going to have many more of his own. |
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| akhan |
| 08/15/01 at 11:56:35 |
[quote]slm Akhan: Polygamy was never forbidden by Islam, and our prophet never forbade what Allah made lawful. I have heard the anti Polygamy argument you mentioned before, it was invented by the western colonialists to attack Islam and slander the prophet. It is only part of the truth. [/quote] Asalaamalaikum, NewJehad: I did not view this is an anti polygymy statement. And of course the prophet (SAW) did not prevent what is halaal. I think people need to deal with this issue (of polygamy)with greater sensitivity, sincerity and use hikmah. I'll give you my personal experience. My wife is an American revert who took her shaadah three and a half years ago. Her parents abondoned her when she was an infant. And all her life she has had no real family and was abused by her foster parents. I married my wife shortly after she reverted to Islam and alhumdulillah, the marriage has been very fruitful. A year and a half ago, the subject of polygamy came up and she did not take this very well. She went into a state of extreme depression. I know Islam is a cure for everything, but there are certain things from phe past which are hard to let go. So, I dropped the subject. I could not see her miserable. I feel that you really have to weigh a situation. We are not living in the past. Today, the norm is monogamy. And this idea has unfortunately crept into the muslim thought. This is a reality. It is unreasonable to think that all muslimahs will accept this without an objection. And apparently there is a problem, the problem with ratio of women to men. So, the obvious (and not an immediate one) solution to the problem is education (of Islamic sacred knowledge - Islamic history,Sirah,Fiqh,Spirituality,etc. from qualified Ulema). This is a long term solution - This applies to both the men and women. This will hopefully bring us to a greater realization and higher states, insha Allah, which will inturn help us follow the deen with certainty and sincerity. And I think will also help us accept the realities of this deen to the fullest and even polygamy. And Allahu-Alim. |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/15/01 at 11:59:41 |
| [slm] *Brilliant* post akhan! Jazaak Allaahu Khairan. |
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| se7en |
| 08/15/01 at 15:16:36 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, this is a little off topic, but I thought there were excellent points made in this and wanted to share it with y'all.. these are some comments from a discussion about marrying a second wife without telling the first.. [color=black] A Salaam A Wa Alaikum: Validity is not the issue. Acceptability by Allah and the pleasing of Allah is. For example you may perform all of the requirements for a "valid" prayer but that doesn't mean that your prayer was pleasing to Allah or that it was accepted by Allah. Perhaps you rushed through your salat, were thinking of something else, etc. but you still did the bare minimum for a valid salat. Okay so what? That prayer isn't necessarily going to be accepted by Allah nor was it in all likelihood pleasing to Allah so is "validity" the issue here? It reminds me of the ayaat in the Quran referring to how a certain group of Jews were ordered to not fish on the Sabbath so they instead cast their nets out to catch the fish to be retrieved the following day so that TECHNICALLY they were not breaking Allah's command. Allah turned them into apes "despised and rejected." Polygyny is not a "bad" thing. It is not something to be ashamed of or to try to hide. The only time it is is when people do it in the manner of an adulterous relationship where they mimic all of the activities involved in adultery with the exception that when it comes down to the nikah they "technically" make it a "valid" marriage. As Muslims we are supposed to be the most pleasing to Allah. We are to be the best of humanity due to our subservience to Allah. If more people would engage in polygyny the right way I think we'd witness more positive polygnous relationships. -------------- If a brother cannot even have the common decency to inform his spouse about a decision that will affect her life tremendously, I seriously question his ability to care for one wife, let alone two. The whole point about having two witnesses to an Islamic marriage is that it is supposed to be a public contract, done out in the open. How can that be when the person most affected by the situation is kept in the dark? The prophet of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) informed his wives whenever there was even a woman who was interested in him--even if he didn't want to marry her--he made sure his wives knew of these types of developments. Islam does not in any way sanction deception--and that is exactly what this is. There is nothing honorable about such a situation. Ma salaam ------------- As salaam 'alaikum In saying that the marriage would be valid, I am assuming that the hypothetical brother did have two witnesses, paid the sister her dowry, the sister had a wali, etc. If he did not, then it would not be a valid marriage. It is important to realize, as was mentioned, such a marriage may have the bare minimum requirements to be valid, but that does not make it pleasing to Allah. The example that I mentioned earlier, of a brother who pronounces divorce in anger, that is sufficient to count as a valid divorce, but that doesn't make it a praiseworthy act. It is in fact very blameworthy, but it still counts. In other words, what I am saying is that he will have actually married the second sister instead of committed adultery with her according to Islamic law. Especially in a situation where the shari'a is fully in place, this would mean the difference between him getting stoned to death or perhaps having some other type of chastisement meted out to him by the Islamic judge. Now, it is not even remotely halal for someone to lie, so if you are talking about someone who not only does not inform the first wife beforehand, but continues to hide it from her, he is going to have to tell lie on top of lie in order to keep that type of cover on his activities. This causes even more trouble, both for himself and his families. No one wins in a situation like this--and everyone has the right to know what is going on. If a man has more than one wife, he has to spend equitably on them, spend time equitably with all of them, etc. And of course, as you mentioned, the children in this situation would undoubtedly suffer the most. It is kind of hard for the women to monitor these things if they are unaware of what's going on. So even if he does have a valid marriage, there is nothing in Islam that sanctions that type of continuing deception. Not to mention that we need to be aware of how our actions affect others, for any pain that we cause another will be exacted from us on the Day of Judgement--so any brother who feels compelled to act in such a dishonorable manner should beware. It is still a despicable act, no matter how you slice it. I hope that this makes more sense. Ma salaam Also I just wanted to mention that if the second marriage is considered valid, then any children who may have issued from that marriage are considered legitimate--so that is a protection for them as well. The shari'a is beautiful in that it protects the innocent like that. If the marriage wasn't considered valid, then they suffer. Also, the second woman, she is not damaged by having fornicated or committed adultery in such a situation--because truth be told, if a man is carrying on in a manner like this, he is most likely lying to both of the women, so the shari'a seeks to protect her as well. ------------- As Salaamu Alaikum! Mashallah, Allahu Akbar! I first must commend all the Muslim brothers who have decided to take on a second wife. May Allah know what is in your hearts and deal with you accordingly! The majority of the brothers who do this must be excellent Muslims who can follow the commandment of Allah to treat their wives equally and know the punishments of not....They must also be great brothers who follow the Sunnah of the Prophet. The prophet of course married some of his wives to alleviate their situation.....whether that be that they were widows, in bad situations, political reasons, women with children.. all very noble reasons. May Allah's peace and blessing be upon him. He was of course a wonderful example. As Muslims we should follow the Quran and Sunnah when dealing with any issues that may arise, including polygamy. So these brothers that have married again.. are your 2nd 3rd 4th wives Bosnian? From Kosovo? Palestine? Ethiopia? Other devestated countries? Please share us your wonderful tales! Such noble brothers we have. wasalaam ----------- [/color] I think one of the best points made in this discussion was the distinction between an action that is *valid* and an action that is *pleasing* to Allah. Yes, marrying a second wife without your first wife's consent may be valid, but you need to *seriously* consider whether doing something to truly hurt this woman - this woman who you've shared so much of your life with, who is the mother of your child - in order to get something *you* want (i.e., another child) will be something pleasing to Allah. If you do decide to do this this.. don't make your wife miserable. Grant her a divorce if she seeks it. Islam does not sanction cruelty and it would be cruel to keep her in a relationship she does not want to be in. I think this issue was addressed really well here.. props to jannah, arsalan, akhan, etc.. wAllahu 'alam. wasalaamu alaykum. |
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| Kashif |
| 08/15/01 at 18:27:38 |
| assalaamu alaikum I'm concerned that if even amongst practising Muslims (and look around your communities what ratios are you, 1:40? 1:100?) if there is such a strong undercurrent of support for sisters who don't want to participate in this sunnah then we are unconsciously driving nails into the coffin of this practise which at the least is permissible and, most likely recommended (remember! the ayah says that men take 2, 3, or 4 wives BUT if they can't be just to them, then, only one. Hence, one scholarly opinion is that the general ruling is for men to take more than one wife with the exception being taking only one). The argument that you should only take a second wife if the first wife is ok/pleased with it seems very weak. How many sisters do we know (let alone have ever heard of) who were ok/pleased with their husbands taking a second wife? If we're going to add this as an extra condition then this practise will completely cease because NO woman will willingly share her husband with another. [quote]So these brothers that have married again.. are your 2nd 3rd 4th wives Bosnian? From Kosovo? Palestine? Ethiopia? Other devestated countries? Please share us your wonderful tales![/quote] I definitely agree that brothers intending to take multiple wives should take them from amongst the widows and the sisters without family in this ummah, but please don't go to the extreme of making it seem as if these are the only sisters which are permissible for the men to marry. Yes, its noble to take a refugee as a second wife, but its NOT blameworthy to instead choose a virgin (unless you have evidence to prove otherwise). Allah describes this ummah as a balanced one, a people who take the middle road. So lets not go to one extreme of stressing that this is a sunnah that absolutely must be practised, nor to the other extreme of adding baseless conditions to undermine and restrain it. Just two closing quotes, the first from br. Ali Timimi and the second from Sh. Muhammad al-Munajjid: --> [color=black]This is part of a response to a question regarding marrying non-Muslim women[/color] I have one final word of advice regarding the dangers and appropriateness of marrying a Christian woman...how appropriate is it to marry a Christian woman given that there are many Muslim women who lack husbands? These are not only American sisters, converts and immigrant children who have grown up in this country and who need strong Muslim men to learn Islam from them and take care of them; but what about the tens of million of Muslim women from Muslim countries who due to war and displacement live very poor lives and are looking for a Muslim man to teach them and rescue them from their misery. If the youth of Islam remain with only one wife or marry Christians, who will shelter our sisters from Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, Kashmir, Philipines, etc.! That is some advice from the heart that I felt must be brought forward. My apologies if these words are out of place. http://www.islaam.com/sunnah/marrying.htm <-- --> [color=black]From islam-qa.com[/color] It is not obligatory for the husband, if he wants to take a second wife, to have the approval of the first wife, but it is the matter of good manners and kind treatment that he should speak to her kindly in such a way as to reduce the feelings of hurt which are natural in women in such cases. That is by smiling at her, showing that he is happy to see her, being kind, speaking nicely and by spending money on her if necessary. http://216.205.122.233/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13702&dgn=2 <-- I hope that Allah forgives me if i've spoken incorrectly or out of turn. Kashif Wa Salaam |
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| sarah |
| 08/15/01 at 20:11:52 |
| Assalamu Alaykum, [quote]I have been married to her for 5 years and we both have tried very hard to have a second child insha'Allah, but we both know it's only from Allaah that we do so. This has put me in an awkward situation since my wife is 46 yrs old and having another child at this age maybe a problem.[/quote] Umm.... just a thought but did you consider that it maybe the difficulties in conceiving may not have to do with your wife's age? It could be a problem with you. Before you jump the gun, maybe you should both see a doctor, if you have not already done so. Islamically, brother you have your rights, if you choose to exercise them, but be ready to deal with the consequences. You may be within your right but if your wife leaves you, even if islamically she does not have the right to do so... well, the reality is that she has left you and your existing family is broken. And this affects both you and her and your existing child. Everyone on this board can tell you how right you are, and how wrong and selfish she is being but that does not change reality. If this makes your wife unhappy and it is more than she can handle, than she may leave you, and if she does, then that is THE REALITY. Islamically correct or not, you have to accept that. You can not force her to stay married to you agaist her will. Subhanallah, I'm reminded of the hadith (i'm paraphrasing so correct me if i'm mistaken) about the slave woman who was freed and then no longer wanted to be married to her husband so she left him. Her husband used to cry for her and one day the prophet pbuh, feeling sorry for the man asked her why she would not stay with him and she said something to the affect that she just did not care to be married to him anymore. And the prophet accepted that. The Prophet pbuh gave this woman right to have her feelings. And she did not have to stay with this man. So whats my point? Don't only think about who's right and whose wrong. Use some common sense and wisdom. Reason with her and try to find a solution that will be acceptable to both of you. May Allah swt help us to love our spouses in moderation, so we are better able to handle such situations. |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/16/01 at 00:06:08 |
| slm Good points Sarah. I hadn't heard the hadith you mentioned, and will run it by some people and see what they can tell me about it. |
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| sarah |
| 08/16/01 at 08:44:05 |
| Assalamu Alaykum, This is the hadith I was refering to. The Prophet could have commanded her to return to him but he did not. If you do find any further info about it please let me know. I was just using it in the way it was explained to me. Volume 7, Book 63, Number 206: [Saheeh Bukhari] Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Barira's husband was a slave called Mughith, as if I am seeing him now, going behind Barira and weeping with his tears flowing down his beard. The Prophet said to 'Abbas, "O 'Abbas ! are you not astonished at the love of Mughith for Barira and the hatred of Barira for Mughith?" The Prophet then said to Barira, "Why don't you return to him?" She said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you order me to do so?" He said, "No, I only intercede for him." She said, "I am not in need of him." |
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| amal |
| 08/16/01 at 08:40:43 |
| Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatollahi wa barakatoh Sarah: The hadith you mentioned is the following [quote] Volume 7, Book 63, Number 206: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Barira's husband was a slave called Mughith, as if I am seeing him now, going behind Barira and weeping with his tears flowing down his beard. The Prophet said to 'Abbas, "O 'Abbas ! are you not astonished at the love of Mughith for Barira and the hatred of Barira for Mughith?" The Prophet then said to Barira, "Why don't you return to him?" She said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you order me to do so?" He said, "No, I only intercede for him." She said, "I am not in need of him." (Bukhari) [/quote] And in another riwaya: [quote] Volume 8, Book 80, Number 750: Narrated Al-Aswad: Aisha said, "I bought Barira and her masters stipulated that the Wala would be for them." Aisha mentioned that to the Prophet and he said, "Manumit her, as the Wala is for the one who gives the silver (i.e. pays the price for freeing the slave)." Aisha added, "So I manumitted her. After that, the Prophet caller her (Barira) and gave her the choice to go back to her husband or not. She said, "If he gave me so much and so much (money) I would not stay with him." So she selected her ownself (i.e. refused to go back to her husband)." (Bukhari) [/quote] |
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| sarah |
| 08/16/01 at 08:47:13 |
Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, Jazaki Allahu Khair Amal. We must be posting at the same time ;) |
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| amal |
| 08/16/01 at 11:14:04 |
| slm [quote]Jazaki Allahu Khair Amal. We must be posting at the same time [/quote] Eyyaana wa eyyaakum...yeah i was thinking the same thing ;) |
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| Merimda |
| 08/16/01 at 15:43:01 |
| Salam, This is something that I just read right now and absolutely had to share because it is relevant to this discussion: *** "And of his signs is that He created for you , of yourselves, spouses, that you might repose in them, and that He has set between you love and mercy. Surely in that are signs for a people who consider." (Quran, 30:21) Between a man and a woman there must be a relation of consultation, discussion and mutual participation. The Quran even goes as far to indicate that the father and the mother should consult one another as to whether or not the mother should continue breast-feeding their child. "...a mother shall not be pressed for her child, neither a father for his child, the heir has a like duty. But if the couple desire by mutual consent and consultation to wean, then it is no fault in them. (Quran, 2:223) If consulation is required in such a precise context, then it is only to be expected in the larger affairs that concern the couple... **** Tariq Ramadan Islam, the West and the Challenges of Modernity, pg 38. I'm reading this book now and it's amazing. |
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| Mehak |
| 08/17/01 at 12:46:13 |
| [slm], I just have a question to this anon bro: what if u do get a second wife but Allah forbid she cant concieve either.What would u do then???Get another wife??What if the second wife dont allow u to get married again???I might sound rude and emotionless but I just want this brother to think of what CAN happen. Please forgive me anyone if I offended them but I would surely like to get an answer from this brother. [wslm] |
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| NewJehad |
| 08/21/01 at 09:41:48 |
| The issue of the marrying with out the first ones knowledge is a different issue. 3 of the fore scholars consider it to be a very serious mukruh. So all the sisters who are married to Shafi men need to keep a close eye on their Husbands. I heard of a Man who did this, he was in a gym and his first wife came running in and started throwing weights at him. So I would tell the broth to go a head and marry 2, 3 or 4. He has the right. It might offend his first wife, but it will make the other 1, 2, or 3 very happy. It is true that the man has a kid with the first, who might not like the idea. But if he marries other wives with kids, the kids of the other wives will be made very happy. Having a dad is really important. I never realised what a important part of my life it was until mine became ill. So if he uses his right to other wives to provide the children with no/absent fathers with a father, he would be making some kids very happy. |
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| Sparrow |
| 08/21/01 at 12:30:43 |
| I''m just curious...how to the women in plural marriages divide up their lives? Does the first have authority over the second, and so on? Sparrow |
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| Arsalan |
| 08/21/01 at 15:31:28 |
| [slm][quote]The issue of the marrying with out the first ones knowledge is a different issue. 3 of the fore scholars consider it to be a very serious mukruh[/quote]Wow! This is news to me. Can I see some evidence for this please? Or at least some references that I could look up? Sparrow, none of the wives has any authority or superiority over the other. They are all equal, and they are to be treated equally by the husband. That means that he must spend equal time and money on all of his wives, and must treat them justly. Wassalamu alaikum. |
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| *sofia* |
| 08/21/01 at 15:56:48 |
| "So all the sisters who are married to Shafi men need to keep a close eye on their Husbands." - NewJehad. That's funny. In any case, I don't think I can argue with your main points, bro Jehad (although the details...). |
| NS |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/21/01 at 15:59:17 |
| slm [quote]The issue of the marrying with out the first ones knowledge is a different issue. 3 of the fore scholars consider it to be a very serious mukruhWow! This is news to me. Can I see some evidence for this please? Or at least some references that I could look up? [/quote] I don't know where Jehad is getting his information from. This is the first I have heard of this. He shouldn't just be saying these things without any proof. Where did you get this information from Jehad? Here is what Sheikh Munajidd said: No evidence appears neither in the Qur’an nor sunnah requiring the permission of the first wife if her husband wishes to marry another wife, and therefore he is not required to ask her permission. However, he needs to be judicious in taking this decision and to weigh it carefully with respect to benefits and drawbacks and to look with the eye of wisdom at all of the considerations pertaining to the matter, and he should strive all he can to conciliate, reassure, and satisfy his first wife, in order to ease and mitigate the effect of the matter upon her. |
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| sarah |
| 08/21/01 at 18:34:25 |
| slm [quote]I don't know where Jehad is getting his information from[/quote] I'm not sure what Br. Jehad's source is either, but i think he is refering to marrying secretly without people knowing (including other wives) as being makruh. [quote]No evidence appears neither in the Qur’an nor sunnah requiring the permission of the first wife if her husband wishes to marry another wife, and therefore he is not required to ask her permission.[/quote] I don't think he is saying that a husband not asking for wifes permission is makruh... |
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| NewJehad |
| 08/22/01 at 07:52:50 |
| permission is not required. knowledge is. Else if your first finds you with your second she will think its zina. |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/22/01 at 08:39:06 |
| slm Where did you get this information that 3 of 4 schools said it was makuruh? What is the reference? |
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| NewJehad |
| 08/22/01 at 09:00:54 |
| I will look for it Inshallah . i heard it on a hamza yousuf tape. |
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| Barr |
| 08/27/01 at 05:30:53 |
| Assalamu’alaikum :-) sorry for the late reply... but I hope this helps, inshaAllah…. :) This is an athar. An athar is a saying of the sahabah (companions of the Prophet). They would have said something from what they've learnt from Rasulullah SAW. It is a story of Hassan Ibn Ali r.a. It is taken from the tafsir of Imam Nasafi. Please excuse the translation. Afwan. [color=blue]Hasan Ibn Ali went to meet up with Mu'awiyah at his residence. After he met Mu'awiyah, he left and met up with some guards of Mua’awiyah’s residence. One of them asked Hasan. "Oh Hasan, I am a man who has wealth, but I don’t have children. Teach me something so that Allah would bestow children onto me." Hasan replied: "Do lots of istighfar (Astarghfirullah – seek forgiveness of Allah).." Following the nasihah of Hasan, the man did lots of istighfar in which he did istighfar up to 700 times each day. He was then bestowed with 10 children. This news reached Muawiyah and he asked what is the basis of this. The man said,"Have you not heard of Allah’s words…" “(Hud said) O my people! Ask forgiveness (astarghfiru) of your Lord and then repent to Him, He will send you (from the sky) [color=red]abundant rain, and add strength to your strength [/color], so do not turn away from the Mujrimun (disbelievers of the Oneness of Allah)” Surah Hud 11: 52 “(Nuh said) I said: Ask forgiveness from your Lord, verily He is Oft Forgiving. He will send [color=red]rain to you in abundance and give you increase in wealth and children, and bestow on you gardens and bestow on you rivers [/color].” Surah Nuh 71:10-12 [/color] There are also hadiths that support as such, but I do not know the strength of the hadiths. Afwan. Personally, I think it is a beautiful story, and so r the ayahs, mashaAllah... very therapeutic.. Sometimes, we are insensitive of our own arrogance, and hence, the need to feel humbled and the realisation of who we truly are and who Allah really is... is by seeking forgiveness from Allah.... Like what Syed Qutb said in his "In the Shade of the Qur'an".. There are always hikmah (wisdom) why He didn't bestow success to us yet. One of the reasons why Allah did not bestow success to us may be because of a longer period of time needed by the [i]Jundullah[/i] (army of Allah) for tarbiyah as well as time for them to mature so that when success do come, it would not be easy for such success to be taken away and they would not be easily swayed by the temptations of the world. Though Syed Qutb said the above in the context of success for Islam, da'wah and jihad, but I feel, it also applies to our individual micro lives... in which what we desire, is each of our own definition of success....like those who want children... and those who want to be married as well :) So, here's a tip to those single brothers... and sisters of course ;) Altogether now: [color=green]Astarghfirullah Al Azeem [/color]:-) Allahu a'lam Take care :-) The one who types needs the most reminders "...Ya Allah, do not let us decree our own fate even for a blink of an eye, or a time shorter than that..." (From one of the dua's of Al-Mathurat) |
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