Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| pakiprncess |
| 08/31/01 at 22:09:29 |
| asalaam alaikum friends - i know i havent been online in quite some time and im sorry about that. but i returned only to be greeted with the following message, which puzzled me tremendously: [i]salaaam. You have to change your nick..were muslims and then maybe 'paki'. Its haram to be proud of your country..be proud of islam.. [/i] excuse me, but cant i be proud of both? someone please reply...is this concern really appropriate for someone to message me about? |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Abid |
| 09/01/01 at 00:45:50 |
| AoA sister I dont know what is the proper reply for your post from Islamic point of view... but I thought that may be I should just share with you an excerpt of an article by Dr. Murad Hoffman that I read sometimes ago http://www.viewislam.com/west/murad1.htm "I am a German, and I am a Muslim. It would be silly for me to be proud to be a German - did I chose my parents? - but am glad to be a German. In fact, I owe a great deal to having grown up within German culture and with the German language: both are problem-solving kits, so to speak. And yet, I am very glad indeed to be a Muslim. It would be silly for me to be proud to be Muslim - did I chose Islam, or was I not chosen by Allah to revert to His religion? Consequently, I feel quite at home in the Muslim world. In fact, whenever I am not there, I feel homesick for Makkah." I also like one of Dr. Iqbal's verses: Butaan-e-rang-o-khoon ko tor kar millat mein gum ho ja Na Toorani rahey baqi na Irani na Agfhani (Though I did try to translate it, but when I was going to translate "gum ho ja" for "get lost", I decided not to puruse with this venture at all. I am sure that some one will come up with a good translation to it, inshallah) As far as I am concerned, I am trying to break this idol for me and my family and I think for ethnic Muslims it is a big idol especially in the western world... What I have observed so far is that (like here in NZ) most of the ethnic Muslims just keep on to themselves, they dont intermingle with other ethnicities very much and I would say this is especially true for Pakistanis (here atleast)... may be I should not generalise and judge but this is what I have observed. Wassalam... by the way I am also a Pakistani. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Mahmoodah |
| 09/01/01 at 08:48:35 |
| salam sum1 told me thats its wrong to b proud of nething!!! and that proudness leads u to hell!!! but i'm not sure, i thought its ok to b proud!!! a confused sis!!! wa-salam:) |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Zahra |
| 09/01/01 at 11:13:54 |
| slm There is nothing wrong with *loving* your country or where your from. This can be seen in the seerah when the Prophet, sallahoo alayhe wa salam, missed Mecca while he was in Medina; he was "homesick," so to speak. However, there is a huge difference between loving your home and being proud of it. And remember, pride in Islam is defined as rejecting the truth out of arrogance and the Prophet sallahoo alayhe wa salam said anyone who has an atom's weight of pride in his/her heart, will not enter paradise. Of course, as Muslims, we are one Ummah and we are not divided by lands and continents. Our Islam comes first and is what unites us together. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Saleema |
| 09/01/01 at 16:49:30 |
| [slm] If you are proud of Islam first and then Pakistan, then go ahead. be proud. obiviusly you are proud about good things from pakistan, not the bad things. but i did read a hadith once where the Prophet (S) said that one should only be proud of being Muslim. [wlm] |
| The Instinct to Love One's Country |
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| Yusuf |
| 09/02/01 at 00:17:40 |
| The Instinct to Love One's Country Shaikh Abdullah Faisal Natural Instincts pg 23-25 --------------------------------------------------------- Man is nationalistic by nature. Therefore he strives for unity, independence, interest, prosperity and even the dominion of his nation. He wants the best for his country and it hurts him to see his country's backwardness, especially moral and economic backwardness. Whenever he leaves his country, he reads newspapers and magazines that inform him of the situation back home. Likewise he buys goods and merchandise that were imported from his homeland to the country where he is residing. Whenever his country is participating in any competition, like the world Olympics, world cup football, the common wealth games and so on, he automatically becomes a fan and supporter of his national team without anyone having to tell him to do so. If his country is invaded by another country he would lay down his life to repel the aggressor and defend his homeland. This is so because he is by nature a lover of his country. Because of this it is considered bad manners by Islam to speak ill about someone's birthplace because his heart is connected to his country, hence by doing so you actually hurt him. Not only would you hurt him but you would cause him to hate you. Thus the Islamic brotherhood would be affected with hatred, malice, spite, resentment and rancour. As Muslims we should not allow our love for our country to turn us into nationalists i.e. giving preference to nationalism over the Islamic brotherhood. This is called 'Asabiya (nationalism, tribalism, racism, partisanship, clannishness). It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Hurairah (RA) that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said, “One who fights under the banner of a people who are blind to the cause for which they are fighting, (i.e. do not know whether their cause is just or unjust), who gets flared up with ‘Asabiya, calls people to fight for their ‘Asabiya. And supports his kith and kin (i.e. fights not for the Cause of Allah but for the sake of his ‘Asabiya) if he is killed (in this fight) he dies as one belonging to the days of Jahiliyah (the pre-Islamic days of ignorance). [Sahih Muslim (English Translation) Vol. 3 p. 1030] The Shaitaan has been using this instinct to cause great destruction on the earth in that he has turned a lot of people into nationalists, thinking that they are a superior nation and that they have the right to dominate others. Most wars that are being fought today taking a heavy toll on human lives and properties are fought in the name of nationalism. Nationalism was the dogma used by Hitler to incite his soldiers to pursue the second world war which lasted seven years between 1939 and 1945. So was the eight year old war between Iraq and Iran. Millions of people died in both wars, soldiers as well as civilians. Likewise the destruction of what use to be Yugoslavia was done in the name of nationalism with the Serbs as the aggressors. Many more wars of the past and present can be used as examples of the Shaitaan using the natural instinct to love our country to turn us into violent nationalists. As for the Hadith: “To love your country is a pat of Iman,” is classified fabricated by all the scholars of Hadith. Nationalism is a fatal disease that has contaminated the hearts of most of us. Only the God-fearing is saved from this disease which is Kufr. The disease thrives more rapidly in the hearts of people who are citizens of a rich country. These people at times deliberately make visitors feel foreign especially if the visitor happens to be from a country poorer than theirs. The Shaitaan has led many Muslims astray with nationalism, to the extent that they treat other Muslim visitors to their country badly and even passed laws making it forbidden for Muslims of other countries to marry their citizens. Thus their nationalism has caused them to make what is Halaal, haram and to do so is an act of Kufr (disbelief). Also you will find that their policies on visa applications and asylum seekers are harsher than that of the Kafir regimes. This disease of nationalism did not emerge in the body of the Ummah until after the Islamic Caliphate was destroyed approximately seventy years ago. This is so because all Muslim countries were ruled by one leader the Caliph, with one system the Shari’ah, therefore there was no room for nationalism in the Islamic Caliphate. The colonial powers were instrumental in spreading this fatal disease among the Muslims because their aim has always been to divide us in order to rule us. I would like to cite an Ayah in the Holy Qur’an which is the antidote for the diseases of nationalism and racism hoping it will benefit all the nationalists, and racists, Muslims specifically and the rejects of faith generally. Allah the Most High said: “O Mankind, verily we have created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other not that you may despise each other. Verily the most honourable in the sight of Allah is (that believer) who is most righteous.” (Surah Al-Hujuraat 49:13) |
| Re: The Instinct to Love One's Country |
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| pakiprncess |
| 09/02/01 at 00:45:45 |
| [quote] Allah the Most High said: “O Mankind, verily we have created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other not that you may despise each other. Verily the most honourable in the sight of Allah is (that believer) who is most righteous.” (Surah Al-Hujuraat 49:13)[/quote] i simply kept this name because it is how my friends know me...they call me 'paki princess.' i never meant any harm by it, nor did i mean that pakistanis are the best, etc etc... if nationalism is so wrong, then why do the albanians claim they are better at things than the texans? i mean, its all in good fun, rite? similar to my screen name. i understand what you mean by nationalism being dangerous at extremes, but never have i claimed that pakistanis are exceptional in any way....so im really hurt that one would say something like that to me. i wont mention names, but there are others who post on this board without using their real names...i wonder if they were approached in a similar manner. well, anyways, thank you very much for steering me in the right path. inshallah i wont make such a mistake again. jazakallahkhair. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Anonymous |
| 09/02/01 at 08:26:03 |
| Salam I don't think pakiprincess is being patriotic and proclaming that being a pakistani is better than being a muslimah. She just chose a simple nick name which reflects where she comes from. We all have our own customs which have been extracted from our cultures. We could argue isn't it nationalistic having a seperate room for the 'british' and 'albyian' muslims ??? Anyway wasn't there a thread once that asked where all the mulims in this room were from in the world....? And what about names of restauants. When you guys want to go to a halal restuarant don't you sometimes say you want an 'indian', 'pakistani' or lebanese etc? Even though they are all owned by muslims they have different food. |
| NS |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| proudtobemuslim |
| 09/03/01 at 08:55:54 |
| Assalam-u-Alaikum, Sis. Pakiprincess there is no need for you to feel hurt and insulted by the message you received. In fact you should be thankful to him that he took the bother to tell you what he felt. There was no compulsion for him to send the message except that he cared about a fellow muslim. he saw what he thought was a wrong and tried to correct it... even if his idea abt this particular issue was possibly not fully correct. It was all meant in good faith. I have made some pretty silly mistakes as well and have been corrected with good advice. There is nothing to be ashamed of in that. According to this thread there seems to be, in my humble opinion, no reason for you to change your nick. To the sender of the message, it wouldn't be out of place to say that one of the imporant aspects of our deen is that we give our brothers and sisters the benefit of doubts and always try to think good about them. I'm sure you see now that the nick was in no way intended to show the pride pakiprincess has of her nationality. In no way am I saying that you should promoting the good and forbidding the evil, but maybe less harsh words as those used in the message would be more appropriate. Jazzakum ullahu Khair Wassalam-u-Alaikum, Uzer |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| jannah |
| 09/03/01 at 22:59:15 |
| wlm, agreed proudtobemuslim...human beings are all born some place and raised some place within a certain culture. there's nothing wrong with acknowledging who you are and where you are from. remember salman al FARISI, suhaib ar-ROOMI, and Bilal al-HABASHI.....they should have changed their nicknames too right...? anyways princess al paki.. keep on ur mujahidah.. as for the others with much more 'proper & wonderful nicknames' let's all worry about living up to our own nicknames instead of worrying about others eh... |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/04/01 at 06:11:30 |
| Pakiprincess, that name in itself puts across the image of nationalism, even if you dont intend it. A lot on muslims feel pakistani's seem to have a superiority complex, where they feel they are better than anyone else, and it really is anoying when you walk through a neighbourhood with pkistan flags drawn on ally gates, on the floors, on walls, its nationalism, and racism, and whether they admit it or not, most pkistani's, and i should know living in the middle of 40'000 of them, are deeply racist. The women, the men, the kids, mostly have a racist attitude to non-pakistani's. They would rather have thier daughter marrying an alchohol drinking, drug abusing ex convict as long as he's a muslims, rather than marrying a devout muslim simple because he's from a diferent country. And when the girl dont listen what do they? Kill them. I know of several cases, the most recent being a few weeks back when a local guy killed his sister. There are VERY few decent non-racist pkistani's around. So the brother who said that thing to you was perfectly in the right. The Pakistani's in the UK have tarnoished the image of islaam with their behaviour, their violance towards women, thier forced marriges, the rioting. They should be ashemd of themselves for thier behaviour, but you know what? I bet they couldnt care less how they've tarnished the image of islaam. When i speak to non-muslims, all i hear them say is how "we" muslims force our daughters to marry, how we have massive unemployment, how we muslims riots, and are vioalnt, well hold on, but who is "we"? Its not the Bengalis, somali, arab, indian, whites, bosnians, kosovans, iraqi's who are doing this, its the pkistani's so dont tarr the rest of islaam justs because of the acts of one group. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/04/01 at 08:45:00 |
| slm The following question was asked of Dr. Siddiqi (President of ISNA). Q. Do Muslims have to be beyond any nationality? Like, if a person is of Indian origin, should that person just consider Muslim as his or her nationality, not Indian? A 3. Islam is not a nationality. Islam is a faith and it brings people together on the basis of their faith. Muslims are one Ummah regardless of their colors, races, ethnic background, languages or nationalities. The differences of race, color etc. are only to know each other. As Allah says in the Qur’an, "We have made you groups and tribes in order that you may know each other" (al-Hujurat 49:13). Islamic faith is beyond any nationality. Muslims should be united into one Ummah and should support each other. Islam is not against races, or languages or nations, but Islam is against racism, language prejudice or nationalism. There is nothing wrong in loving your people, your country, your language, but it is wrong to hate people or despise them or have prejudices against them on the basis of their colors, languages, races or country of origin. |
| NS |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| jannah |
| 09/04/01 at 13:00:49 |
| again.. you can not judge a person based upon a nickname, otherwise you are saying those sahaba were nationalists as well!! and you can not judge a person based upon their race.. that is insulting and against islamic principles. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/04/01 at 15:03:25 |
| Yes we cannot judge a person on race, but we can judge them on thier behaviour, and if a certain group is openly nationalistic, which is Haraam in islaam, i think we can judge them! And you have got to be honest, who is the one group who is always shouting about how thier the best? Which one group goes around waving thier flags, shouting about their national pride? I'm not gona name them as i want you to name them. But tell me this, how ISLAAMIC is thier behavior? The created thier country because they wanted a muslim country, well what about all those muslims who migrated from India to join the newly formed muslim nation? They were persecuted, and treated like dirt, they were and still are labelled as refugees, these people who made Hijra, many thosand sof them were killed on the way, the land they went to now treats them as second class citizens! Is that islaamic? And dont blame the government, blame the people. Its not Nazam Shariff, Or Mustashraf who is saying to me "this is a paki mosque, not indians allowed"! |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| jannah |
| 09/04/01 at 15:42:10 |
| mujaahid i agree with you.. nationalism is not part of islam. that's a whole separate issue what i was talking about was people judging someone based upon their NICKNAME which is acknowledging where they are from!!! this is not islam and it's not dawah, it is pushing people away from islam. just because a person's points on 'nationalism' are correct does not mean you attack another muslim with the TRUTH based upon your ACCUSATIONS. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| se7en |
| 09/04/01 at 16:05:23 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, I can't believe some of the posts in this thread man.. Brother mujaahid this thread is *not* the place for you to vent the issues you have with a specific group of people. Despite what experiences you may have had with a specific group in the past, you have no right to come to this message board and make generalizations and assumptions about an entire ethnic group. Is this something you would hear any person of knowledge say? [quote]There are VERY few decent non-racist pkistani's around. So the brother who said that thing to you was perfectly in the right.[/quote] In truth, there are very few "decent non-racist" *Muslims* around. Nationalism is not limited to the Pakistani community.. it's something the entire ummah is afflicted with and you can find it prevalent in any Muslim community from Alabama to Zimbabwe. It's not right for you to condemn one people for a crime that many are guilty of. [quote]The Pakistani's in the UK have tarnoished the image of islaam with their behaviour, their violance towards women, thier forced marriges, the rioting. They should be ashemd of themselves for thier behaviour, but you know what? I bet they couldnt care less how they've tarnished the image of islaam. [/quote] Gee really? And I'm sure the Arab, African American, and revert Muslim communities have done *nothing* to grant Muslims a bad name eh? Honor killings and fgm are actions committed mostly in Northern Africa and the Arab world -- don't they tarnish the image of Islam? Oppression and violence towards women is in *no way* limited to people of Pakistani descent.. but is in fact perpetrated by Muslim men all over the planet. ALL of us are guilty of tarnishing the image of Islam. That's not a crime that the Pakistani Muslim community is guilty of alone. And I'm not Pakistani, just in case you think I'm saying all this out of some deep seated nationalism or loyalty to a certain group. I've dealt with people who have that "pakistani zindabad, i live and die for pakistan" attitude.. but I've met others who have that same attitude for Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc... And what *any* of this has to do with pakiprincess is beyond me. You're *assuming* a lot about a person based on their nickname bro.. wAllahu 'alam.. wasalaamu alaykum. [off topic -- where's brother Mujaahid? He hasn't posted in a while..] |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/04/01 at 16:22:48 |
| Assalaamu-alaikum "You're *assuming* a lot about a person based on their nickname bro.." Hold on, i CLEARLY said i didnt believe she was trying to be nationalistic, but i said i could understand why people would assume in such a way! Now i dont wanna start a fight, but i must address some issues you bought up. "It's not right for you to condemn one people for a crime that many are guilty of." I'm speaking from personal experience, not what i cannot, have not seen. "And I'm sure the Arab, African American, and revert Muslim communities have done *nothing* to grant Muslims a bad name eh?" I PERSONALLY have NEVER come across an arabs/Africans/reverts who have been racist towards me, or who have waved their flags chanting racist slogans, i have NEVER come across an arab child who has said to me "arabs are the best". I cannot say the same about the pkistani community! How many arabs/somali/indian muslims have we seen rioting recently? NONE! "That's not a crime that the Pakistani Muslim community is guilty of alone." I never said they did, but they are what the none muslims in this country see, they are 43% of the UK's muslim population, and this is what they see of islaam, now you tell me what kind of an image are they seeing. You see your response is EXACTLY the problem with the Ummah today, knowone is prepared to stand up and say anything, why? Because they fear being shouted down, the way you have tried to do with me, and so because of that people just shrug thier shoulders helplessly, and dont even bother saying anything when they see so much wrong. Remeber the Hadith, i dont know it exactly of by heart but the prophet Muhammed (saw) said :"if you see see an injustice to islaam taking place, try and stop it with your hands, if you are unable to stop it with your hands then speak out against it, and if you are unable to do that then hate it in your heart" My dear brother do we just sit hear and not do anything about what we see going on around us? Do we just sit hear while "pirs" give speeches about how Islaam allows honour killings, do we sit hear silently while people go out committing appaling crimes in the name of Islaam? Do we? Is that whats left of this Ummah? Are we as muslims really so weak that we cannot even defend the truth of Islaam? Are we? And i dont want no animosity between us so Heres a Rose for you to make peace @>-->-- ;-) Mujaahid |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mango |
| 09/04/01 at 18:43:32 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, I have to agree with Sr. Se7en..the posts on this thread are shocking. Generally, before I speak, I try (to the best that I can) to make sure that there is no pride in my heart . I pray that Allah helps me remove even a single drop of arrogance inside of me. I even question my own thoughts: "Why did I think that? Do I believe that I'm 'better' than that person? Who am i to look down on my fellow sisters and brothers in Islam?" I think we all have to assess ourselves before we speak. It's easy to categorize people in groups and label them. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Anonymous |
| 09/04/01 at 23:23:08 |
| Mujaahid as a muslim you have no right to critisize and judge another muslims iman. No matter how bad they appear to be you will not be favoured for your actions by judging how bad you think another muslim is. Judgement is left to Almighty Allah alone. By making a statement like: ....................................... There are VERY few decent non-racist pkistani's around. So the brother who said that thing to you was perfectly in the right. ........................................ Is not something a fellow muslim should say about another. In conclusion all I can say is what I see, and that is you are an example of the kind of person you dislike so much, i.e. you yourself are biased and racist towards different people.Perhaps you are actually one of the criminals responsible for tarnishing the image of strong brother and sisterhood in islam? Aida. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/05/01 at 05:44:46 |
| Assalaamu-alaikum Anonymous, Well i feel no regret in what i say. Why should i? Its because people are to cowardsly to speak their mind, to speak up when they see someothing wrong, its because of this cowardice that we muslims are now in such a pathetic state. Dotn you guys realise we muslims are the laughing stock of the world? Dont you realise its us muslims who are used as target practice for the rest of the worlds latest military weapons, dont you relaise its us muslims who are used and abused for other peoples economic benefits i.e. Africa, gulf war, balkans! We are pathetic! Why? Because we fear man, we fear each ohter. Our women are raped and humiliated, why? Why can they walk all over us and yet we are to cawardly to do anything about it? HOW CAN we do ANYTHING about it when we ourselves are so divided? WHY are we in this state? Because of RACISM, because of NATIONALISM. This creates hate and serious mistrust amongst the muslims, so much so that now everywhere i got i see a Pakistani Mosque, a Bengali mosque, and Gujarati mosque! WHy! Is this unity? Is it? Or is this a sign of how devided we are? And do you know why were in this state? Because we all sit thier cowardly avoiding the real issues, we sit thier in our little corners hoping it will sort itself out. Well it wont. We need to change it ourselves, but how can we change anything when knowone hs the guts to stand up and admit to the problems. Until we remove our national pride, we muslims will continue to be humiliated. We're suppose to be one Ummah, one Nation, well where is it? How can it exist when we have so much division between us? Step back, open your eyes, and see the problems for yourself. Until your prepared to do that i suggest you guys dont say anything. |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| Saleema |
| 09/05/01 at 08:21:47 |
| Because of RACISM, because of NATIONALISM. And that's not the whole story. why don't you use your anger in a positive way? Please, and don't give us "sit back and don't say anything." cuz you may want to take your own advise first. anyway, everyone, drop this subject before it explodes into something big. (maybe i should have taken my advise first? :) ) [wlm] |
| Re: haram to be proud of your country ?! |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/05/01 at 08:40:02 |
| Drop the Subject? And whats that gona achieve? If we drop it, we just brush it under the carpet. hush hush is not a clever appraoch to take! Whats it gona achieve? Nothing! Why? NOTHING will be sorted. If we muslims were in a strong state, then we should remain quite, but we have serious porblems! Look at how we muslims are being persecuted, yet KNOWKONE comes to help, why? "its not our problems, thats thier country, let them sort it"! Well One about the One Ummah one Nation, one family? What about the hadith about how the Ummah is like the body, and when one part it hurt, the rest of the body feels it? When we see the suffering on our fellow brethren, do so much as shed a tear? No, we just turn the channel and forget all about it. What a sorry state we're in. May Allah give guide us muslims to the thruth, and give us the strengh of Imaan to remove us from this sorry state! |
| The final word |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/05/01 at 09:08:46 |
| slm Some of the posts in here are extremely insulting, rude, and based on complete ignorance and some of these posts shouldn't have even been posted in the first place. The first post in here was from a sister wanting to know why she was being attacked for having such a nickname. The sister hasn't demonstrated any rascism or nationalism but instead has been met by a harsh reaction by some posts that are extremely general and rascist in nature especially the quote below. [quote] There are VERY few decent non-racist pkistani's around. So the brother who said that thing to you was perfectly in the right. [/quote] No the brother who said that thing was not perfectly in the right. In the history of this board and the posts that I have seen here I would say there weren't any racist pakistanis on this board. One can't make such generalizations about a people. That is complete ignorance and arrogance and no one has any business saying that. Just because someone has some bad personal experiences with some members from a group/country doesn't give them the right to start attacking and making sweeping generalisations about people from that area. This thread is now closed. |
| NS |
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