Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
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| Nazia |
| 09/05/01 at 10:49:29 |
| slm, The "proud of your country" thread was locked by the time I got to it, but it got me thinking about a more general concept I think people for the most part seem to disregard. A lot of times people think they are doing everyone a huge favor by speaking their minds, being blunt, and covering up nothing. But in actuality this is not always the case. Because we have to remember, there is a distinct difference between being "honest and truthful" and being TACTLESS. We as Muslims should look at the *benefit* of what we have to say before we say it. I've heard girls always say, "So and so is so blunt--that's such a good quality" Or, "I'm definitely not two-faced, I always tell it like it is" and assume that they are in the right. But are they? For example, if I saw one of my friends wearing a dress that I thought was kind of ugly--is it my duty as a friend to tell her?? What if she really liked it? What if she saved her money to buy it? What makes my opinion any better than hers? By telling her, ultimately, I'd be hurting her feelings and nothing else. Yeah sure I could say, "Well, I'm just being honest" But what does that mean? All I did was give an opinion. Maybe her "honest" opinion is that its nice. I think its just tactless to give an opinion where it wasn't warranted. Now I know this was a very superficial example, but its one I see a lot hanging out with girls. Now like I said, this is in no relation to the locked thread or any posts on that thread, but it did trigger this thought process. I think in general, the idea that "we must always speak our minds no matter who we're hurting because its for the best" is a sketchy shady ideology at best because who are we to say we know the best? Now matter how passionate we are about a topic, it doesn't give us the right to disregard the other side. A lot of times, the best way to handle a situation is to *literally* step outside of it and view it aerially to get a better sense of the *whole* picture. And perhaps, somewhere in the process, we'll find that we were wrong, and its always better to bow out with dignity then to be utterly humiliated in a debate. Because, if you don't see where someone is coming from, then you can never rightfully debate them. And another thing, people always think its so great to have these extreme opinions about every *little* issue, as if that somehow makes you a more intelligent person or a person with more depth. But Islam teaches us to ride the middle ground in many cases! Clearly in cases of undebatable Muslim issues (ie- Tawhid, etc) we should stand our ground, but those are not really the kinds of things I'm talking about. Alright, I guess this turned out to be kind of a venting session, and I'm sorry, but sometimes we (myself included first and foremost) become so arrogant with our opinions, justifying our reasoning with weak premises and closing our minds to the big picture, that we actually lose sight of the argument at hand and end up looking like babbling idiots. And back to my first point--just because we have an opinion, doesn't mean the world needs to hear it :) Could you imagine the cacophony if everyone always spoke what was on their mind? We'd all go nuts :) Once again, this was not aimed at anyone or any post or any thread, its just something I had been thinking for awhile. Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/05/01 at 11:10:26 |
| <<Once again, this was not aimed at anyone<< Accept me! Anyway i aint gona say no more regarding this stuff, i've said more than enough, much of which was taken the wrong way! :) |
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| Saleema |
| 09/05/01 at 12:31:27 |
| [slm] I agree with you completely Nazia. We all should talk less, post less, (advise to myself first), and avoid useless and vain talk. In the Quran Allah says in many places to avoid "vain" talk. I am taking government II this semester, the class is good, the professor wonderful, but we had some very old rehashed topics, although very important and controversial topics.We all have groups and each group picked a topic from a list that the professor provided and one of the topics was the issue of abortion. I am very sick of that subject, even though it's an important topic and well worth the pursuit I suppose. The problem is that some people do not know *how* to argue, how to *move on* to the next point, how to drop a point when not gettting anywhere with it and arguing logically, and how to avoid *attacking* the *person* instead of the *argument*. (sigh) Tip: logic 101! sheesh kabobs i have a headache... My group chose the death penalty as our topic, thank God! But I am going to have to sit through 45 minutes in class towards the end of the semester and hear about abortion issues. I am very sick of that topic- seriously. In *every* philosphy class that seems to be the hottest topic and practically *every* government class as well too. And thre is one "argument" that really gets on nerves, in fact that's why i am so sick of the whole issue. Some people will just go on and on and on and on about how the embryo is a "leech" in a woman's body and if a woman chooses to have abortion to get rid of it... blah, blah, blah.... It's not that I disagree with the pro-abortion advocates and that's why I do not want to hear anything about it anymore. Anti-abortionists make the same outrageous mistakes. Something that I have heard anti-abortionists say often is that "the Bible supports life and is against abortion." And there is no mention of the so-called evidence from the Bible against abortion. The professionals who know at least what they are doing cite them, but of course they twist the verses and cite them out of context. I guess I'm venting too? :) Now I have to go seach UN documents on the death penalty. [wlm] [wlm] |
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| jannah |
| 09/05/01 at 13:04:45 |
| [slm], completely agree 100%!!! talking without any thought and wisdom is truly a sign of jaahaliya if you ask me. muslims tend to do more damage than any good when they decide to "correct a wrong they see" and don't think much more beyond that. and it definitely isn't the sunnah of the prophet [saw] who was so careful and deliberate with his words and how he said something to who and why and what the consequences would be. anyways how do we hammer this fact home to people?? they just don't get the concept of dawah..:( ps brother mujaahid no one was talking about you specifically, this is a general problem of the ummah, but perhaps that is good if everyone looks to themselves first and try to correct their own actions to the benefit of the ummah. |
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| pakiprncess |
| 09/05/01 at 14:27:33 |
| thank you all brothers and sisters for coming not only to my defense, but also to pakistans defense. although i know this is a touchy topic and i wont get into any specifics of who said what (even tho i SOO want to!), id just like to say that Allah (SWT) created us all different. therefore there are good and bad people from each and every nation, race, group, etc. many groups have the 'pakistan zindabad' thinking for their own nation, and im NOT saying this is right...im simply saying, as bro bhaloo said, you cant judge a whole group of people based on the actions of a few. inshallah ill also prove that although i do indeed have paki pride, its my trust in and love for Allah (SWT) that never made me doubt for a minute that Islam is always first. sorry for any harm i may have brought about to this board or to anyones feelings. i never meant it as such. im glad we can debate these kinds of things here without any feelings of anger for one another. that means this board is actually working!! subhanallah :) jazakallahkhair :) |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/05/01 at 15:07:16 |
| Salaam "not only to my defense, but also to pakistans defense." I dont think thats quite accurate. There was a recent conference on Pakistan in London, and they basically said the nation is in turmoil. This is Pakisatni's themselves speaking! "i wont get into any specifics of who said what (even tho i SOO want to!)" I understand! Although i stand by all i said! "although i do indeed have paki pride" Well what did i tell ya 'all? The name after all DID have its implications! How come i as a Gujarati muslim dont have gujji pride although we in the Gujarat region have 40 million muslims, and a strong islaamic foundation, including two world famous schools of thought in india? Yet i dont go round saying, or feeling pride in where i come from! The borders are man made! Why should i feel an ignorant pride for where i come from. My pride is limited to islaam, i'm proud of being a muslim, and i'm more than content with that. I dotn wanna feel pride for nothing else! If i do, then i better start worrying, because naitonlistic pride in islaam is harram! Its like me saying i like looking at Alchohol, although i dont drink it, so its ok! Now i hope you dont lock this thread also! I'm simply pointing out pirde and why its wrong to feel it. |
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| Nazia |
| 09/05/01 at 15:53:53 |
| slm, Hey now, no rehashing of locked threads!! I've never had one of my threads locked and I don't want to start now! :) And, I know br. mujahid that it looked like I was attacking you, and I'll be totally honest-- I didn't even read all those posts in that thread, so I *couldn't* have been attacking you. I just noticed a bit of bickering and it reminded me of an incident that happened with me recently which prompted me to start this thread. So no this is not a continuation of the "forbidden thread", rather its simply an observation of humanity in general. Sorry for the confusion :) Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
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| Kashif |
| 09/05/01 at 16:54:25 |
| assalaamu alaikum Interesting point sister Nazia. But i have to admit, i am completely the opposite to you, because if someone asks me my opinion my instant reaction is to speak whats on my mind. But then, perhaps thats because i mainly hang around with people who are able to take criticism or blunt opinion on the chin. I guess it also depends on who is asking you and how you know they would react to your opinion.. which is a form of being tactful, i think. Kashif Wa Salaam |
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| Nazia |
| 09/05/01 at 21:55:08 |
| slm, [quote]if someone asks me my opinion my instant reaction is to speak whats on my mind. [/quote] Actually, I think you misunderstood. I was saying that I thought it was tactless to give an opinion when it wasn't even asked--especially if the opinion is negative. Of course if someone *asks* your opinion, they will be expecting the truth, even if it is not what they want to hear. And in that case, we must still use a level of tact so as not to intentionally hurt their feelings. Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
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| se7en |
| 09/05/01 at 23:28:20 |
| as salaamu alaykum, [quote]thank you all brothers and sisters for coming not only to my defense, but also to pakistans defense. [/quote] just to clarify, I personally wasn't trying to defend any specific ethnicity or nationality. I think the Pakistani community does have it's problems.. but so do all other Muslim communities. I just think there's something wrong with making the Pakistani community the scapegoat for all of the ummah's problems. wAllahu a'lam. And Nazia awesome post sis :) wasalaamu alaykum. |
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| Barr |
| 09/05/01 at 23:12:30 |
| Assalamu'alaikum, Jazakillah, ukhti, for your reminder :-) The topic at hand reminded me of this saying.... A wise man said: "A man with wisdom, as soon as adversity appears, does that which a foolish man does after a month (i.e. he resorts to patience)" Allahua'lam :-) "Well-timed silence, is more eloquent than speech" |
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| Ayla_A |
| 09/06/01 at 12:45:27 |
| [slm] Well I do believe in having tact, my personal opinion on this subject is that if someone is a good friend, I don't mind them saying, where did you get that dress etc. But as for someone that I would not consider a close or good friend. Keep your comments to yourself, unless I ask for them, and then be kind. My 2 cents [wlm] Ayla |
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| humble_muslim |
| 09/06/01 at 13:10:11 |
| AA As with everything, we need to look at the Quran And Sunnah. The Quran tells us to call people to Islam with wisdom, using beautiful ways. There are many examples of the Prophet using tact where necessary, and being blunt where necessary. Me, I tend to be on the tactful side, maybe too much. But the LAST thing I want to do is to put soemone off the deen by being too truthful. |
| NS |
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| pakiprncess |
| 09/06/01 at 23:25:55 |
| [quote]I just think there's something wrong with making the Pakistani community the scapegoat for all of the ummah's problems.[/quote] thats EXACTLY what im trying to say! (thas what i meant by coming to our defense; not as pakistanis, but as human beings) hope this makes sense this time... wasalaam |
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