Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| Nazia |
| 09/14/01 at 23:42:22 |
| slm, May Allah protect the innocent Muslims of Afghanistan and Pakistan. May He help these leaders make decisions that are in the best interest of their people, and Islam. Ameen. ----------------------------------------- Pakistan likely to allow use of air space By Our Staff Correspondent WASHINGTON, Sept 14: With Secretary of State Colin Powell's naming of Osama bin Laden as the prime suspect in this week's attacks on New York and Washington, attention is becoming concentrated on the likely shape of America's response and actions that Washington expects Pakistan to take. Islamabad has been given a list of concrete actions that Washington expects it to take, and on Friday it was reported here that Pakistan might be willing to open its airspace for US missile or aerial strikes against targets in Afghanistan. But there was some ambiguity about whether Pakistan would also permit ground troops to be stationed on its soil. On Thursday, Pakistan was handed over a list of measures on which the US would like Pakistan to agree. The list was said to include use of Pakistani airspace in case a military operation was undertaken, closing the 1,400-mile border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and ending supplies of fuel to the Taliban government. Also on Thursday, Secretary Powell, questioned on why the focus was so much on Pakistan, had said while the US hadn't yet publicly identified the organization it believed was responsible for the attacks, but "when you look at a list of candidates, one resides in that region." When asked whether by "one", he meant Osama bin Laden, the secretary said: "Yes". Although bin Laden's name was being published from day one of the crisis, this was his first official naming. However, Secretary Powell, who spoke to General Pervez Musharraf on the telephone on Thursday afternoon, had also stressed America's friendly relations with Pakistan, saying: "Pakistan is a friendly country. We've had friendly relations with Pakistan for many, many years. The relationships have had ups and downs as a result of various things that have happened over the years. But right now we have friendly relations with Pakistan, and I have spoken to the President of Pakistan over the months.. And so I will approach this as if I am talking to a friend and let a friend know what we would like to see happen in order to improve the situation in the region and the situation in the world. And I hope the president (of Pakistan) will respond as a friend. Our initial indications are that he will." However, comment in news reports and new analyses quoting officials has been less positive, implying that Pakistan has actually been left with little choice except to comply with American demands once Washington has made up its mind about the action or actions it wants to take. Apart from immediate and targeted hits against specific locations in Afghanistan and probably in other countries suspected to have organizations linked to bin Laden, there will most likely be a protracted campaign against extremist organizations and even states. The forced presence in Washington of ISI chief General Mahmood Ahmad, who has been unable to get a flight home because of the disruption in air traffic, has lent a piquant touch to the current intensive Pakistan-US contacts. The ISI ran the US aided anti-Soviet Mujahideen drive against Soviet forces in the 1980s and is generally believed here to have maintained an active role in developments since then in Afghanistan, including the rise of the Taliban and their subsequent consolidation of power. ISI is also alleged to have ties with militant groups operating in Kashmir, and what the new scenario portends for the Kashmir issue is itself something about which Pakistan must be concerned. Deputy Secretary of Defence Paul Wolfowitz has referred to a broad and sustained campaign against terrorism and said: "I think one has to say it's not just simply a matter of capturing people and holding them accountable, but removing the sanctuaries, removing the support systems, ending states who sponsor terrorism". The ominous reference to "ending states" has been interpreted as meaning governments that back or provide succour to groups considered to be terrorist in nature. There appears to be some understanding of the Musharraf regime's dilemma, that if it permits unfettered action from Pakistan's soil of US moves against bin Laden, the general may face a backlash from militant and extremist organizations within Pakistan. But this can only be a small consideration in America's calculations as it embarks on what it describes as its war against terrorism. The CIA has been authorized since 1998 to use covert means to disrupt terrorist operations planned abroad by bin Laden, and was almost on the point of carrying out an operation in 1998 before it was aborted. The Pentagon has now called up 40,000 reservists, the US administration has won Congressional approval for action and for $40 billion in emergency authorization, and Secretary Powell has declared that as soon as the US is certain of the identity of the culprits (in which at least in one case it seems to be), "we will go after that group, that network and those that have harboured, supported and aided that network, to rip that network up." He has also promised to keep the campaign going. "When we are through with that network, we will continue with a global assault against terrorism in general". ------------------------------------------------------- Wassalam, Take Care, Nazia |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/14/01 at 23:49:02 |
| slm I thought I saw on the news that Pakistan is not co-operating completely? This is crazy, to launch attacks on innocent people. There are a lot of Afghanis in Pakistan and they aren't going to tolerate this at all. I pray that Allah (SWT) protects the Muslims there and in the world. |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| blissfull |
| 09/15/01 at 08:39:48 |
| slm this is a careful stategic plan of a hangmans game by the kafirs. the dilema we face in pakistan is to what extent the proceedings of so called justice will take. if we don't comply enough we will be under attack severly. and if we lead uncle sam to the so called guilty party, muslims will be facing each other with a lethal bullet. this is a trial from ALLAH(SWT). this is a wake up call that the Ummah must collect,yet in order to do this certain precautions must be taken in this political game where we don't wipe our selves out completely. time is of the essence and all the signs are here. |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| Saleema |
| 09/15/01 at 12:56:24 |
| [slm] For a more balanced coverage, also read the British media's report. Pakistan not likely to allow it's use of air space. www.independent.co.uk i don't believe that it will happen inshallah. the pakistani ppl will kill musharaf. it's a game. they are pretending to roll over and play dead. [wlm] |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| se7en |
| 09/16/01 at 02:36:03 |
Can you say, 'sell out'? ------- Pakistan Promises to Support Reply By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan promised full support Saturday to any international reply to the terrorist attacks in the United States - effectively pledging its soil and airspace to an assault on neighboring Afghanistan. At Camp David, Md., Secretary of State Colin Powell expressed gratitude for Pakistan's willingness to cooperate in any military action the United States may take in the region. Osama bin Laden, identified as a suspect in Tuesday's airborne attacks on New York and Washington, has operated in Afghanistan. ``I especially want to thank the president and the people of Pakistan for the support that they have offered and their willingness to assist us in whatever might be required in that part of the world, as we determine who these perpetrators are,'' Powell said Saturday. Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar chose his words carefully while announcing the decision at a news conference in the Pakistani capital, aware of hard-line Islamic groups at home who are staunchly anti-American and strongly behind Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia. He emphasized the international nature of any retaliatory strike and refused to give specifics of what its support might entail. ``We have reached a consensus on the policy of giving full support to the world community in combating international terrorism,'' Sattar told reporters following a four-hour meeting of the Cabinet and the more powerful National Security Council, headed by the president and army chief Pervez Musharraf. Pakistani diplomatic and military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said Pakistan had agreed to the full list of U.S. demands for a possible attack on Afghanistan, including a multinational force to be based within its borders. They also Pakistan has sought assurances from the United States that any ground force would be multinational. Pakistan also agreed to close its border with Afghanistan - a measure taken by Iran on Saturday - as well as allowing its airspace to be used for possible strikes and cooperating in intelligence gathering, the officials said. Pakistan's Cabinet meeting began with a minute of silence for those who were killed in the airborne assault on New York and Washington, Sattar said. Afghanistan, which shares a 1,560-mile border with Pakistan, is believed to be harboring bin Laden, a millionaire Saudi exile. The Taliban have refused to surrender bin Laden to U.S. authorities. For Pakistan, the decision to give its full support was a difficult one that is certain to stir passions among radical Muslim elements at home. While most of Pakistan's 140 million people are devout but relatively moderate Muslims, there are several strong militant Islamic groups operating in the country and tens of thousands of religious schools that turn out young boys dedicated to jihad - holy war. These militant groups, most of whom are well-armed, have sharply criticized Pakistan's involvement in an assault on Afghanistan. Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, the largest group battling Indian troops in Indian Kashmir (news - web sites), called it murder. ``It will be killing our Muslim brothers,'' said Yahya Mujahed, chief of the organization headquartered in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore. Also on Saturday, the Taliban's Ambassador in Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef, said the Taliban would declare war on any country that assisted in an assault on Afghanistan. He threatened to send Taliban troops across the border if the country is a neighbor - though he did not name Pakistan specifically. Among the requests being made of Pakistan by the United States is a promise to seal its borders with Afghanistan and cooperate in intelligence gathering. Sattar said that security along its border with Afghanistan has been increased, and meetings have been held with the Taliban officials. ``Pakistan has taken certain precautions in view of the tense situation. We have increasing vigilance on our borders. We do not want our borders violated by anyone,'' he said. |
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| Haniff |
| 09/16/01 at 03:18:34 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh The bitter truth is that the so called Muslim rulers of today are more fearful of the super power than Allah Almighty Who alone deserves to be feared. What a stark contrast to those rightly guided Caliphs and the Companions of our beloved Prophet [saw]. [img]http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/arabic/48_29.gif[/img] Wassalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Haniff |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| BroHanif |
| 09/16/01 at 06:26:42 |
| I think General Musahraf is a crazy looney. He risks being killed by his own people, I thought he was better than the other cronies b4 him i.e. bhutto and Mr Poodle, but man his just gone one lower. Theres a real chance for peace and we should be establishing an Islamic Sharia court in Pakistan or Saudia, but it seems the World wants to be John Wayne and go in guns blazing, 'Guilty until presumed Innocent'(Shakesphere). One thing to remember is that our leaders will be at home ordering the men to their deaths, what a difference to the days of the prophet saws. Hanif |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| amatullah |
| 09/16/01 at 21:32:39 |
| Bismillah and salam, This is another person's analysis of the attack. they said that the whole point of this is a set up to get into Pakistan. They think that the America knows that a strong wake up (like sa7wa/nahdha islameya) is happening there and that they have more sophisticated weaponry than the rest of the area (personly i think this part is doubtful) and so they want to find a reason to set up shop there like they did in the gulf. They don't want pakistan and afghanistan to unite at this point that they finished with the russians. It might be too strong after that. But I think they only wish. Pakistan's people are strong headed from what i know. most people have so intermingled with afghani they are like a million among them, they are family. Also, they are very proud of Osama and that he refuses to acquiese to the states presence in holy lands. Half the baqalas and stores in the street adn the children are called Osama now. But I hate the media here they are going on and on about how bin laden issued fatwas to kill all americans everywhere, meanwhile my understanding of them at the time was that leave our lands, and it seems the only thing that might work is retaliation. Which does NOT mean we hate americans and we will kill civilians in their own home. For a person who is religious, as he is wala nuzakki 3ala Allah a7ad, then he would never consider to do it like that. SO their information is self-contradictory. |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| blissfull |
| 09/17/01 at 15:28:29 |
| slm being a pakistani, i want to share with you the dilema of many issues deep rooted here. it is easy for everyone to say the the president is a mad man. but for one moment think of the option. if pakistan does not help, it will be in greater danger.infact it will be destroyed sooner then later.(an inevitable fate facing all muslims all over the world.(and only ALLAH swt knows best) if pakistan hypotheticaly said it would not help, then do you think america would not have found another way. russia,india and even china are willing to help and would have had their own agendas in this game. secondly pakistan is seen as holding the fate of the afghan people. we were put into this situation, not by choice. the taliban were given amenities for protection, not for destruction. pakistans majority is muslim, yet it is not an Islamic state. there is no pure Islamic state in existance today. out of that majority, there are hundreds of factions. there are incredible amounts of fundamental Islamic idealogy(although i don't like using this term, as this is the kafirs way,but for discussion sake). firstly, the opinions of all the Islamic leaders and Imams are different. if you were to appeal to the country and its people, whose opinion would you take. and if so how would you come to a consensus. in pakistan their are so many Islamic groups all with their own agendas that you can not understand the gravity of terror we face each and every day. do you really think that we want to put the afgahani people to the slaughter house. do you really think we have choices in this matter. if you do then tell me which country has come forward and willing to take a stand. all countries are allies. all countries say we are with you oh dear super power, go get em. their have been talks between the pres. to Arab leaders. do you think they know how to play this game. do you think they are willing to put thier heads on the platter. which Muslim country has come forward. the question is who can! thus the option which is the harsh reality is to try and treat it as a political humanity issue rather then a Muslim one. at this moment in time no matter how strongly we feel about saving more muslims from facing torture. the harsh reality is that Mulims are not together and we can not make this fight that of Muslims against the kafirs. we need time to recollect. We may have the will, but we have lead our selves to this situation where we have hung ourselves with our own nooses. tell me, why could we not stop the horrible fate and torture faced by muslims before. because we have no leg to stand on. we may have spent the last years, working on spreading Islam, but we are faced with the fact that we are so lost and so divided. right now no Muslim can make this an Islamic issue,we can feel it, we can voice it, we can pray but rationaly what exactly can we do. who will do it. why does Osama live in the hearts of some people, because of what he represents, the will to lift the flag of Islam, the will to fight against the super power. his way is not Islams way. but, we can learn something from this man. firstly we need the will and secondly we need to equip ourselves. the shaytan that we fight today is not an open target. so once again i ask you to stop blaming pakistan not because this is my country. The heart is where Islam is and that can be in tibet for all i care. but to ask yourself who and how and what do you think could have been done, and who is willing to take the risk and do we have the means and shall we make this a fight of Islam and if so, are we ready? Wasalam, your sis. |
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| blissfull |
| 09/17/01 at 15:50:49 |
| slm how much can iran stand by what it says. our voices our raised but do we have the time to sit and make policies amonst us. can we in time get all the muslims together. |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/17/01 at 18:52:45 |
| slm [quote]why does Osama live in the hearts of some people, because of what he represents, the will to lift the flag of Islam, the will to fight against the super power. his way is not Islams way. but, we can learn something from this man. [/quote] His way is not Islams way? Can you clarify what you mean by this sister, and give your evidence? ??? |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| blissfull |
| 09/18/01 at 03:38:22 |
| slm forgive me brother if i have not been clear. i will try to elaborate as best i can. firstly there are many muslims in pakistan who are of the opininion and also know some of the sacrifices in terms of their living conditions and other sacrifices that the taliban and mujjahid parties have made. we also know and many brothers have seen the violence also created by the same parties in Pakistan. it is difficult to ge into this discussion. i am not speaking from the worlds point of view, just the view many hold here and know. whether he is or is not guilty of the recent crime, some admire and respect his sheer guts, and this also refers to some of his and the people that he is involved with directly and indirectly. to actualy stand up for what they percieve to be right. this does not refer to the recent events,its refers to his parties actions in recent years. thier methods however have not always complied to the ethics of jihad in Islam. and their methods of teaching Islam to the people who join their parties are a form of severe extremism and this is not western only point of view, but what we have seen and experienced in Pakistan. the parties do not look at the best interest of Islam before acting and nor do they look at the immediate consequences, of the people around them. They do not fear anything so much so that perhaps the fear of ALLAH(SWT) may be missing. it is very complicated yet simple if you are aware of it. yet ALLAH(SWT) knows best what is hidden in the hearts of men. |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| BrKhalid |
| 09/18/01 at 03:59:16 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum [quote]do we have the means and shall we make this a fight of Islam and if so, are we ready? [/quote] Looks like the answer to that question is going to be answered fairly shortly!! |
| Re: Pakistan Likely to allow use of Airspace |
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| amatullah |
| 09/18/01 at 05:03:05 |
| Bismillah and salam, BLACK TUESDAY: THE VIEW FROM ISLAMABAD by Pervez Hoodbhoy Samuel Huntington's evil desire for a clash between civilizations may well come true after Tuesday's terror attacks. The crack that divided Muslims everywhere from the rest of the world is no longer a crack. It is a gulf, that if not bridged, will surely destroy both. For much of the world, it was the indescribable savagery of seeing jet-loads of innocent human beings piloted into buildings filled with other innocent human beings. It was the sheer horror of watching people jump from the 80th floor of the collapsing World Trade Centre rather than be consumed by the inferno inside. Yes, it is true that many Muslims also saw it exactly this way, and felt the searing agony no less sharply. The heads of states of Muslim countries, Saddam Hussein excepted, condemned the attacks. Leaders of Muslim communities in the US, Canada, Britain, Europe, and Australia have made impassioned denunciations and pleaded for the need to distinguish between ordinary Muslims and extremists. But the pretence that reality goes no further must be abandoned because this merely obfuscates facts and slows down the search for solutions. One would like to dismiss televised images showing Palestinian expressions of joy as unrepresentative, reflective only of the crass political immaturity of a handful. But this may be wishful thinking. Similarly, Pakistan Television, operating under strict control of the government, is attempting to portray a nation united in condemnation of the attack. Here too, the truth lies elsewhere, as I learn from students at my university here in Islamabad, from conversations with people in the streets, and from the Urdu press. A friend tells me that crowds gathered around public TV sets at Islamabad airport had cheered as the WTC came crashing down. It makes one feel sick from inside. A bizarre new world awaits us, where old rules of social and political behavior have broken down and new ones are yet to defined. Catapulted into a situation of darkness and horror by the extraordinary force of events, as rational human beings we must urgently formulate a response that is moral, and not based upon considerations of power and practicality. This requires beginning with a clearly defined moral supposition - the fundamental equality of all human beings. It also requires that we must proceed according to a definite sequence of steps, the order of which is not interchangeable. Before all else, Black Tuesday's mass murder must be condemned in the harshest possible terms without qualification or condition, without seeking causes or reasons that may even remotely be used to justify it, and without regard for the national identity of the victims or the perpetrators. The demented, suicidical, fury of the attackers led to heinous acts of indiscriminate and wholesale murder that have changed the world for the worse. A moral position must begin with unequivocal condemnation, the absence of which could eliminate even the language by which people can communicate. Analysis comes second, but it is just as essential. No "terrorist" gene is known to exist or is likely to be found. Therefore, surely the attackers, and their supporters, who were all presumably born normal, were afflicted by something that caused their metamorphosis from normal human beings capable of gentleness and affection into desperate, maddened, fiends with nothing but murder in their hearts and minds. What was that? Tragically, CNN and the US media have so far made little attempt to understand this affliction. The cost for this omission, if it is to stay this way, cannot be anything but terrible. What we have seen is probably the first of similar tragedies that may come to define the 21st century as the century of terror. There is much claptrap about "fighting terrorism" and billions are likely to be poured into surveillance, fortifications, and emergency plans, not to mention the ridiculous idea of missile defence systems. But, as a handful of suicide bombers armed with no more than knives and box-cutters have shown with such devastating effectiveness, all this means precisely nothing. Modern nations are far too vulnerable to be protected - a suitcase nuclear device could flatten not just a building or two, but all of Manhattan. Therefore, the simple logic of survival says that the chances of survival are best if one goes to the roots of terror. Only a fool can believe that the services of a suicidical terrorist can be purchased, or that they can be bred at will anywhere. Instead, their breeding grounds are in refugee camps and in other rubbish dumps of humanity, abandoned by civilization and left to rot. A global superpower, indifferent to their plight, and manifestly on the side of their tormentors, has bred boundless hatred for its policies. In supreme arrogance, indifferent to world opinion, the US openly sanctions daily dispossession and torture of the Palestinians by Israeli occupation forces. The deafening silence over the massacres in Qana, Sabra, and Shatila refugee camps, and the video-gamed slaughter by the Pentagon of 70,000 people in Iraq, has brought out the worst that humans are capable of. In the words of Robert Fisk, "those who claim to represent a crushed, humiliated population struck back with the wickedness and awesome cruelty of a doomed people". It is stupid and cruel to derive satisfaction from such revenge, or from the indisputable fact that Osama and his kind are the blowback of the CIAs misadventures in Afghanistan. Instead, the real question is: where do we, the inhabitants of this planet, go from here? What is the lesson to be learnt from the still smouldering ruins of the World Trade Centre? If the lesson is that America needs to assert its military might, then the future will be as grim as can be. Indeed, Secretary Colin Powell, has promised "more than a single reprisal raid". But against whom? And to what end? No one doubts that it is ridiculously easy for the US to unleash carnage. But the bodies of a few thousand dead Afghans will not bring peace, or reduce by one bit the chances of a still worse terrorist attack. This not an argument for inaction: Osama and his gang, as well as other such gangs, if they can be found, must be brought to justice. But indiscriminate slaughter can do nothing except add fuel to existing hatreds. Today, the US is the victim but the carpet-bombing of Afghanistan will cause it to squander the huge swell of sympathy in its favour the world over. Instead, it will create nothing but revulsion and promote never-ending tit-for-tat killings. Ultimately, the security of the United States lies in its re-engaging with the people of the world, especially with those that it has grieviously harmed. As a great country, possessing an admirable constitution that protects the life and liberty of its citizens, it must extend its definition of humanity to cover all peoples of the world. It must respect international treaties such as those on greenhouse gases and biological weapons, stop trying to force a new Cold War by pushing through NMD, pay its UN dues, and cease the aggrandizement of wealth in the name of globalization. But it is not only the US that needs to learn new modes of behaviour. There are important lessons for Muslims too, particularly those living in the US, Canada, and Europe. Last year I heard the arch-conservative head of Pakistan's Jamat-i-Islami, Qazi Husain Ahmad, begin his lecture before an American audience in Washington with high praise for a "pluralist society where I can wear the clothes I like, pray at a mosque, and preach my religion". Certainly, such freedoms do not exist for religious minorities in Pakistan, or in most Muslim countries. One hopes that the misplaced anger against innocent Muslims dissipates soon and such freedoms are not curtailed significantly. Nevertheless, there is a serious question as to whether this pluralism can persist forever, and if it does not, whose responsibility it will be. The problem is that immigrant Muslim communities have, by and large, chosen isolation over integration. In the long run this is a fundamentally unhealthy situation because it creates suspicion and friction, and makes living together ever so much harder. It also raises serious ethical questions about drawing upon the resources of what is perceived to be another society, for which one has hostile feelings. This is not an argument for doing away with one's Muslim identity. But, without closer interaction with the mainstream, pluralism will be threatened. Above all, survival of the community depends upon strongly emphasizing the difference between extremists and ordinary Muslims, and on purging from within jihadist elements committed to violence. Any member of the Muslim community who thinks that ordinary people in the US are fair game because of bad US government policies has no business being there. To echo George W. Bush, "let there be no mistake". But here the mistake will be to let the heart rule the head in the aftermath of utter horror, to bomb a helpless Afghan people into an even earlier period of the Stone Age, or to take similar actions that originate from the spine. Instead, in deference to a billion years of patient evolution, we need to hand over charge to the cerebellum. Else, survival of this particular species is far from guaranteed. Pervez Hoodbhoy is professor of physics at Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad. |
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