Another sell out, even worse perhaps

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Another sell out, even worse perhaps
BroHanif
09/18/01 at 17:23:15
I wonder how the prophet sls would be feeling right now.
No wonder we have problems. The route for hajj for some people is now unsafe :(.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Saudi citizens do not want to see their holy soil defiled

By BBC Middle East correspondent Frank Gardner
King Fahd of Saudi Arabia has said his country will offer America full co-operation in its fight against terrorism.


There are already 5,000 US airmen in the Saudi desert

Thousands of US troops and several squadrons of Western war planes are already based in Saudi Arabia.

They could form an integral part of any coming military action against those Washington believe were behind last week's terror attacks.

But many Saudis deeply resent their government's alliance with America.

Diplomatic tightrope

The Saudi ruling family is faced with an awkward dilemma - just how far should it go in supporting America against an enemy which could turn out to be Arab and Muslim.

For now the Saudi leadership appears to be tagging along behind Washington, offering its full support in the global struggle against terror.

The estimated 5,000 US airmen and their warplanes already based in Saudi Arabia are so far out in the desert as to be invisible to the public eye.

That is just as well because most Saudis do not want them in their country.

Holy Islamic soil

Still less do they want to see Saudi Arabia, home to the two holiest shrines in Islam, being used as a springboard to attack so called Islamic terrorists.

Osama Bin Laden, the exiled Saudi born dissident, still enjoys a lot of sympathy in his home country.



King Fahd is caught between the US and his subjects

The peace loving Saudis may not approve of his violent methods, but many agree with his motives.

They too believe that America and the West are biased against Muslims, particularly the Palestinians and Iraq.

Privately
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
jannah
09/18/01 at 21:34:47
subhanallah imagine if the Muslim countries banded together and said.. you bomb afghanistan you are declaring war on all of us... or even something so MUCH EASIER !!! WE will not allow you to USE our airspace!! We will not let you bomb from BASES in our countries!!!

how simple can that be...

Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
Kashif
09/18/01 at 21:45:19
assalamu alaikum

I don't have any faith in any of our leaders - but i have some hope in our scholars and the general public in the Muslim world that they could do something to help their brethren. I'm really ashamed to see that numerous scholars have come out with fatwas (rightly) condemning the hijacking, but any statement in support of the Afghanis is scant (if existing at all) and there is no call for Muslims to be prepared to help the Afghanis. Talk about the world being upside down!

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
Arsalan
09/18/01 at 23:24:55
[slm]

Shaykh Qaradawi issued a *strong* fatwa on al-Jazeera against any attack on the innocent people of Afghanistan.  Unfortunately, I don't think it has been made available in English yet.  Stay tuned to www.islamonline.net, maybe they'll put it up.

It's sad when I look at the stance of China and Iran, and then when I compare it to the stance of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia!

Hasbunallahu wa ni'mal wakeel.
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
BrKhalid
09/19/01 at 05:58:24
Asalaamu Alaikum

[quote]subhanallah imagine if the Muslim countries banded together and said.. you bomb afghanistan you are declaring war on all of us...[/quote]

See the West has NATO which does exactly that. You attack any one of us and we'll all retaliate against you.

A real life of example of how the disbelievers have taken an Islamic principle and used it for their benefit whereas we've forgotten our own deen.
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
amatullah
09/19/01 at 13:45:14
Bismillah and salam,

Arsalan,
where can i see or read the qardawi fatwa please? I am looking for such fatwas that condemn the attack but stand by Afghanistan and ask for evidence and ask to punish perpetrators not whole countries or at least to say that bin ladens fatwas were about the presence in Saudi but in no way and never did we hear him talk about jihad on usa civilian and that he/they just hate the USA and want americans dead, which is what they are trying to say. That is exactly what the ambasedor of american in Kenya said in retrospect of the bombings there.

More and more on the news I am hearing that the supposed reason behind the attack was a "culture" which has no tolerance for others, a "way of life" that refuses to modernization and democracy to the extent of fighting where it started since its influence is being felt in the islamic countries!

That really hurt me coz i know they mean Islam but are being sneaks and it is not true to begin with.

7asbuna Allah wa ni3mal wakeel.
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
amatullah
09/21/01 at 14:14:08
Bismillah and salam,

By the way I read in Arabic paper that the ameer of Kuwait jabir al-sabah is having brain hemorage now taken to london.

this is form the NY times

September 21, 2001

U.S. Dispatches Ground Troops and Top Officer

By ERIC SCHMITT and MICHAEL R. GORDON

      WASHINGTON, Sept. 20 — A top Air Force commander has flown to
Saudi Arabia to
      oversee air attacks against Afghanistan and other potential
targets in the war against
terrorism, military officials said today.

American ground troops were also being sent to the region, the Army
secretary, Thomas
White, said today, to join two dozen bombers and support aircraft that
had already begun
moving within easy striking distance of Afghanistan. The Army Special
Forces Command at
Fort Bragg, N.C., confirmed receiving a deployment order, but declined
to say how many
troops were involved.

The Pentagon is planning to send combat search-and-rescue teams into
former Soviet
republics in Central Asia, where they would be ready to get downed
pilots, two Defense
Department officials said. Uzbekistan is considered most likely;
President Bush called the
Uzbek president, Islam A. Karimov, on Wednesday to discuss cooperating
in the fight against
terrorism.

Russian officials have said in recent days that former Soviet republics
can decide for
themselves whether to cooperate with the Americans. But the possibility
of even limited
American deployments there has plunged the political establishment in
Moscow into a divisive
debate. [Page B2.]

Dispatching the Air Force officer, Lt. Gen. Charles F. Wald, the head of
American air forces
assigned to Middle East and Southwest Asia, is the latest sign of a
buildup of United States
military power that could be used to retaliate for last week's attacks
on New York and
Washington.

General Wald, who flew to Saudi Arabia on Monday with several top aides,
would run the air
war from a sophisticated air operations center at Prince Sultan Air
Base, near Riyadh, that
opened this summer. It would be the central command post not only for
175 aircraft already
based in the region and involved in patrolling the no-flight zone in
southern Iraq, but also for
directing attacks from bases in the region against Afghanistan and other
possible targets, like
Iraq.

Currently, Saudi-based American fighter-bombers are restricted from
attacking targets except
in self defense. Today, the Saudi foreign minister, Saud al-Faisal, met
with President Bush and
promised full cooperation, but it is unclear whether the Saudis will
lift their constraints on
running bombing raids from their soil.

The administration's military campaign is extremely sensitive
politically because Islamic
countries are to be used as a base of operations for many of the major
attacks. Not only are
aircraft to be based in Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf states and
Central Asia, but Pakistan has
also been assigned a prominent role.

"It is both logistics and politics," said Teresita Schaffer, a former
ranking American diplomat
and expert on South Asia. "You want staging areas close to Afghanistan.
The other is that the
United States is trying to make it clear that Islamic states are
prominently featured in this effort
to avoid any suggestion that this is a war between the United States and
Islam."

But this also means that there may be limits on how much force the
administration deploys,
she said, adding, "You have to be careful not to create such an
overwhelming presence that it
creates a backlash."

The Bush administration is trying to marshal as much international
support as possible. The
effort goes well beyond Muslim nations. Vice President Dick Cheney met
today with China's
foreign minister, Jiaxuan Tang.

In Brussels, Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage met with NATO
ambassadors, but
he offered no proof of a role by Osama bin Laden and indicated that the
United States was not
ready to make specific requests from allied countries for military
support.

Mr. Armitage, who recently met with Russian officials in Moscow, told
the ambassadors that
the administration was still waiting for a response from Moscow about
what cooperation the
Russians might be prepared to offer and what they would not do.

Mr. Armitage indicated in his closed briefing that the Bush
administration has had indirect
contact with Iran, but that it was not clear what steps Tehran was
prepared to take to stop its
support for terrorism or help Washington in its struggle with Mr. bin
Laden and the Taliban.

Iran said today that it would not allow American aircraft to fly over
its territory on bombing runs
over Afghanistan. "We will never allow American airplanes to use Iranian
airspace to attack
Afghanistan," said the Foreign Ministry spokesman, Hamid Reza Assefi.

The deployment order Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld signed this
week set forces
in motion across the United States, including the lumbering B-52's from
the 5th Bomb Wing at
Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota and a reserve wing, the 917th, at
Barksdale Air Force
Base in Louisiana. B-52's would operate from a British base on Diego
Garcia, an Indian Ocean
island.

B-1B bombers from the 28th Bomb Wing at Ellsworth Air Force Base in
South Dakota and the
34th Bomb Squadron at Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho were also
ordered to deploy.
Air Force officials said they were also readying additiknal aircraft,
including F-15's, F- 16's and
F-117's, but that by late today Mr. Rumsfeld had not ordered their
deployment.

Other special forces are expected to be dispatched. Army officials
declined to say which units
might be sent to the region, but the Army Special Forces Command
oversees an area of elite
troops, including the 75th Ranger Regiment, and other airborne units
like the 160th Special
Operations Aviation Regiment, the 528th Special Operations Support
Battalion and the 112th
Special Operations Signal Battalion. The command also includes the
Army's civil affairs and
psychological operations units.

"We have a very strong special ops capability," Mr. White told
reporters, "and I'm sure this
campaign will involve them."

To carry out a mission of this scale and ambition, the United States
needs cooperation of
many nations, especially Pakistan.

The United States needs access to Pakistan's airspace to carry out
attacks. It needs
Pakistan's intelligence about Mr. bin Laden's network and the Taliban
leadership. It also needs
staging areas in Pakistan to carry out the sort of rapid and repeated
commando operations that
would be needed to capture or target Mr. bin Laden. Pakistan's military
ruler, Gen. Pervez
Musharraf, promised his support on Wednesday.

But Pakistan's role is a delicate matter. Too large an American presence
could encourage
protests and possibly destabilize the country, a frightening development
for Washington given
the wellspring of anti- American sentiment among Pakistani citizens and
that nation's nuclear
weapons ability.

Pakistan was a key base of operation when the United States funneled
support for Afghan
guerrillas during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. But there has
been little military
cooperation between the United States and Pakistan since 1990, one
result of sanctions
Washington imposed because of Pakistan's program to develop nuclear
weapons.

Geography has now led the Bush administration to draw closer. Pakistan
has a
1,400-mile-long border with Afghanistan, and warplanes launched from its
bases are only
minutes away from Mr. bin Laden's training camps and other targets.

"Pakistan is the perfect place," said one retired American general.

Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
hazratsheikh
09/22/01 at 15:12:25

[wlm]

Brother Kashif, by now you must have heard and or read about the Fatwa of almost unanimous of Pakistani Ulema of declaring Jihad being "Fardh-el Ain" in case America attack Afghanistan.(I haven't seen any dissenting view so far from any Ulema so far on this) However it is another story how the Islamic rulers follow it up. Everybody know the answers. The Ulema have done their duty and I am sure quite many of these Ulemas are following it up in practical way wherever and whatever possible. The other day Afghan Foreign Minister in his reply to question recited the following Ayah:

"But those who knew with certainty that they were going to meet Allah, said:"How often a small group overcame a mighty host by Allah's Leave?" And Allah is with As-Sabirun".  Portion of Ayah 249 Surah 2.

I literally cried when I heard him. Mashallah how strong is the Imaan.
Whether they are removed or martyred, their Yaqeen is Mashallah strong. Let's hope and pray the result will be like Taaloot and Jaloot as the Ayah is related to. And even if GOd forbid they are removed what will happen? The Ummah will survive as had been the case after the invasion and subsequent massacre of Muslims at the hand of the Tartars. However the pain every Muslim feels irrespective of which country or tribe he belongs is the the total capitulation and impotency of the rulers of the Muslim World.

It would be appropriate to quote from the book, " The Travels of Ibn Jubayr", translated by Roland Broadhurst in 1952. Broadhurst wrote in the introduction as follows:

"It was the role and achievement of Saladin to unite Islam. As lieutant of the Seljuk prince Nur al-Din ibn Zengi, who has combined the Muslim States of Syria, he had gone south and removed the heretic caliph of Egypt(Fatimid caliph). On the death of Nur al-Din he had taken his suzerain's possessions; and from the Caliph of Baghdad he had condescended to ask, and the puppet Caliph (Abbasi Khalifa-Gone were the days of the Might of Abbasi Caliphate)had been flattered to grant, a patent of rule for Egypt and Syria and their dependent provinces. The eastern Muslim world was now one; the Frankish Kingdom was enveloped, and its death-knell has sounded.
If the opponents of the Cross were at last united; all within the Christian realm was anarchy and alarm. King Baldwin IV was a dying leper; and as with the Greek princes before Troy; there was treachery and strife among the chiefs."

What we are now witnessing is the same scenario BUT in reversal.

May Allah forgive our sin and help the Muslim Ummah. Ameen

Ibn Ismail

Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
bhaloo
09/22/01 at 18:30:57
slm

i put this up in another thread but here it is:

"We warn America that all the Muslim world will unite against it if it acts on its whims and its  haughty drive to hit innocent people," Sheikh Youssef al-Qardawi, a widely respected Egyptian cleric
based in Qatar, said.

"Many leaders may submit to U.S. tyranny and threats, but the people will not submit. America will  not frighten the people, they will not be scared off by its military arsenal, nuclear weapons or
economic might because they believe in God," he said in a sermon aired on Qatar-based al-Jazeera television.

[quote]

Shaykh Qaradawi issued a *strong* fatwa on al-Jazeera against any attack on the innocent people of Afghanistan.  Unfortunately, I don't think it has been made available in English yet.  Stay tuned to www.islamonline.net, maybe they'll put it up.

It's sad when I look at the stance of China and Iran, and then when I compare it to the stance of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia!

Hasbunallahu wa ni'mal wakeel.[/quote]
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
jannah
09/23/01 at 01:04:37
more sell outs.. where the heck are the muslims??? why don't they protest this...no one is saying they don't want justice.. they just don't want more INNOCENT people to die... the hypocrisy in this situation really makes me mad...someone wrote a very good article in the paper today sarcastically talking about how many innocent afghani lives were worth 1 american life...they don't even see their own hypocrisy...


UAE Cuts Ties with Afghanistan's Taliban

By Sami Aboudi

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010922/wl/attack_emirates_taliban_dc_3.html

DUBAI (Reuters) - The United Arab Emirates (UAE) cut ties with the Taliban
on Saturday, giving a diplomatic boost to U.S. efforts to press
Afghanistan's rulers to surrender Osama bin Laden over deadly attacks in
the United States last week.

The UAE gave Taliban embassy staff 24 hours to leave the Gulf Arab state,
the official WAM news agency said.

``The government of the United Arab Emirates has decided to cut diplomatic
relations with the government of Taliban in the republic of Afghanistan,''
WAM quoted an official source at the foreign ministry as saying.

The official said the decision was effective from Saturday.

The UAE is one of only three countries that recognize the militant Taliban
as Afghanistan's government.

UAE Foreign Ministry undersecretary Saif Said bin Saed summoned the
Taliban charge d'affaires in Abu Dhabi to give him and embassy staff
notice to quit the country, WAM reported.

WAM said two diplomats, including charge d'affaires Aziz al-Rahman, and
several administrators have been running Afghanistan's embassy in the
capital Abu Dhabi.

Embassy officials were not immediately available for comment, but an
employee who answered the telephone at the mission said he had heard
nothing about the report.

ONE FRIEND LESS

The move strips the Taliban of one of its few friends as it braces for
possible U.S. military reprisals.

WAM said the UAE, where some 100,000 Afghan nationals live and work,
decided to cut ties after failing to persuade the Taliban government to
hand over bin Laden for what it called a fair international trial.

``The UAE believes that it is impossible under such circumstances to
maintain diplomatic relations with a government that refuses to heed the
clear will of the international community represented in the United
Nations Security Council,'' the official said.

The Taliban has said it was ready to try bin Laden or to hand him over to
an Islamic court if the United States provided sufficient evidence of his
involvement in the attacks.

Bin Laden has denied involvement in the suicide missions which demolished
the World Trade Center, damaged the Pentagon and caused the crash of an
airliner into a Pennsylvania field.

The UAE has strongly condemned the attacks and pledged full support to the
United States in a campaign against ``terrorism'' after the attacks which
killed more than 6,000 people.

The UAE, with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, in 1997 recognized the Taliban
government, which controls most of Afghanistan.

The UAE in 1999 downgraded relations with the Taliban after the U.N.
Security Council imposed sanctions on the movement for refusing to hand
over bin Laden, who was also blamed for the 1998 attacks on two U.S.
missions in Africa.

Saudi Arabia also froze ties with the Taliban in 1998 over its refusal to
hand over bin Laden, who had been stripped of his Saudi citizenship for
activities against the royal family.

Saudi political commentators say the kingdom was following Pakistan's lead
when it recognized the Taliban government.

``The kingdom recognized the Taliban for the sake of its good ties with
Pakistan. Diplomatic relations with Taliban ended due to several factors,
the most prominent being that the Taliban opened the way for bin Laden,''
said Abdul-Aziz al-Muhana, a Saudi author and political commentator.

Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
BroHanif
09/23/01 at 06:52:00
What gets me is that these puppet sates of the Muslims recognise the state Of Israel, however they do not agree with the Taliban.
Sometimes I think these people(leaders) are not even Muslims.
Very soon people will see a revolt in the streets.
The blood of the Muslim is not cheap.
Re: Another sell out, even worse perhaps
Ziggy
09/23/01 at 08:14:11
slm

I think all this is yet another sign of the Day of Judgment; we can see exactly how the leaders *really* are like..see all these so- called Muslim leaders who will support America in everything they do..even if/when they're  going to  shed the blood of their  Muslims brothers and sisters...its madness...
A sign of the Day of Judgement is that leaders will be hypocritical and greedy... so true ...

Is it *that* hard to unite and tell the kuffar if they attack one Muslim country..they attack the whole Muslim world?? The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that the Muslim Ummah is like a body, if one part of the body is injured, the rest of the body should feel the pain.. many Muslim leaders are forgetting this hadith :( Instead what they do is side with the one's who injured this body in the first place... its really bad...


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