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We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Kashif
09/18/01 at 20:24:48
assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah Subhanallah, so much of the talent we have is going to waste with silly people like this taking the stage and elevating themselves to the position of spokespeople for the Muslims. Brothers and sisters, while its essential that we show some affiliation to the Americans in this difficult hour of ours, it is IMPORTANT that you don't lose your dignity and your self-respect - you are slaves of Allah and your love allegiance is to *Him*, and not to a flag or to a person. Forget all this 'God bless America' stuff... let me paste a brother's comments to bring what i'm saying into context: "In the time of Hulagu Khan while the Mongols were ravaging the Muslim world, raping the women and children, impaling the babies on spears, imagine if there were Muslims who lived in Mongolia and helped fund these massacres. Who were singing songs of praise and support in honor of the Mongol Khan. Who were donating blood for wounded Mongol soldiers. Who were giving nearly 50% of their annual income to fund the massacre of the Caliphate, Allah's law on earth. YOU tell ME what the difference between that revolting hypothetical scenario is and the Muslims of America today and what their role will be when the U.S. invades Afghanistan and murders innocent civilians who have NOTHING to do with ANY of this!" Its not a direct correlation to the situation we're in, but its almost a direct hit! I was really shocked how this Yale Graduate, presumably one of our intellectuals, tells us that we should be Americans first and everything else (including being Muslim) later. And yet less than a year ago i listened to Rabbi Jonathan Sacks in the UK saying words to the effect that "our law (the Jewish law) is what we believe in and what we will live by, and to hell with anyone who disagrees." My, how pathetic we are today. I remember, Ibn Khaldun, the great Muslim philosopher of history who said that the symbol of a conquered nation is that it starts to resemble its conquerors. Watch for how this person: - criticises CAIR for the work they're involved in - denies that Muslims face any new dangers in America after the hijacking - ridicules the idea that this hijacking could be a case of the 'chickens coming home to roost' for the Americans when even educated kuffaar are saying this. Kashif Wa Salaam Wall Street Journal 9-14-01 American Muslims: Be American! By Tarek E. Masoud, a graduate student at Yale. There's a famous photo of a Japanese-owned grocery store in the  aftermath of Pearl Harbor with these words emblazoned across the front: "I AM AN AMERICAN." It accurately encapsulates the way many of us in the Islamic and Arab community feel at this hour. As it becomes ever more apparent that our co-religionists have visited slaughter upon our compatriots, so many of us want to declare from the rooftops our allegiance to this great nation, to show our solidarity with our fellow citizens, and to join the fight against our common enemy. Despite their demonstrations of patriotism after Pearl Harbor, Japanese-Americans were thrown into internment camps. This is not likely to happen to us. President Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Sen. Ted Kennedy and countless pundits have bent over backward to make sure that Americans know that all Arabs are not to blame, and to explain that Islam and Islamic fundamentalism are not the same thing. They are correct, of course, and it is good to hear them say it. Because even I need to be reminded sometimes. In fact, I wonder, when I hear these words of ecumenical brotherhood, whether Islam and Muslims are not getting a bit of a pass on this one. When I read Muslims posting messages of joy on Internet newsgroups, declaring, Malcolm X style, that the chickens have come home to roost, I wonder where these people come from. Are they the people I pray with at the mosque? Are they the New York cabbies I greet with a hearty "salam alaikum" and who in my mind have always been models of hard work and the American way? Could it be that Islam is not the religion of peace that I've been telling everybody it is, but instead a faith of bloodthirsty fatwas that exalts murder and suicide? Is it conceivable that Muslims are not the noble people I believe them with all my heart to be, but rather the kind of monsters who celebrate death and destruction? No. It cannot be. But if I -- a man born and raised into the faith, of Arab parents and with a deep love for the culture of the Arab world -- can ask these questions, what questions must my Protestant and Jewish and Catholic friends be asking? And how can I, as a Muslim, give them an answer? I certainly cannot look to the national leadership of the Islamic community in America for guidance. The American Muslim Council tells us to be careful, to be on the lookout for suspicious and anti-Muslim behavior, presumably by other Americans seeking revenge. The Council on American Islamic Relations even sent out an e-mail with a handy form for reporting hate crimes against Muslims. I wonder if these groups are oblivious to the fact that it is Muslims, with names like Mohammed and Abdullah and, yes, Tarek, who have committed the greatest hate crime in American history? Instead of trying to think of ways to help the victims, the leadership of the Muslim community would rather wrap itself in the mantle of victimhood. Actually, that's not quite right: It is wrapping itself in the mantle of potential victimhood. The feared hate crimes have not materialized. No one is taking to the streets and shouting "Death to Muslims." No mosques have been burned to the ground. And so every day, as the nation mourns, as foreign countries pledge support and offer condolences, American Muslims are strangely absent from this tragedy, save the occasional press release. As a result, the only Muslims that America sees are Osama bin Laden and the mugshots of Tuesday's suicide bombers. Already we can hear rumblings in the Muslim community about the need to keep fighting against profiling, the practice of singling out Arabs and Muslims for increased scrutiny at airports. They had been making headway with this cause -- both presidential candidates denounced profiling during the 2000 campaign -- and now they fear public sentiment will slide in the other direction. But Tuesday's events should have demonstrated the folly of their position. How many thousands of lives would have been saved if people like me had been inconvenienced with having our bags searched and being made to answer questions? People say profiling makes them feel like criminals. It does -- I know this firsthand. But would that I had been made to feel like a criminal a thousand times than to live to see the grisly handiwork of real criminals in New York and Washington. I can hear my co-religionists now, arguing that the Muslims bear no special responsibility for these attacks, that a community of six million law-abiding Americans should not apologize just because a few of them committed a crime. Perhaps they are right. But looking at the images of shattered buildings and dead bodies, of people jumping to their deaths and of planes wielded as instruments of death, how can we not apologize, knowing that these images were brought to us by people who claim to act in the name of the faith we call our own? It seems to me that an apology would be very little to ask. Instead of jealously protesting our innocence and girding against repercussions, we should be asking, "What else can we do to help?" Like the New Yorkers who even now are volunteering in greater numbers than relief workers can make use of, it is time for American Muslims to start acting like Americans.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
ahmer
09/18/01 at 20:35:52
...exactly I agree. There couldn't have been a better analysis of the ideas expressed by the Yale graduate. good job bro kashif!!! I kinda read it yesterday and was finding a way how to respond to him. I found out his email address and was thinking of how to politely talk about it. But was perplexed if at all it would be nice to email him about it. Anyways bro kashif, if you can sum up your thoughts and email him, if you feel like doing so. any suggestions? i can give him ur email address if you want to.. [wlm] husain

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Kashif
09/18/01 at 21:18:27
wa alaikum us-salaam At the moment i hope its sufficient just to point out that going to these sickening extremes to show your allegiance to USA is absolutely unacceptable. Let me digress for a moment and quote a friend who writes about the effect of the altering of al-walaa (love and allegiance) and al-baraa (hatred and disavowel) of Muslims and the appearance of the Dajjal: "Surat at-Tawbah is also called "Surat al-FaadiHah". "FaaDiHah" means to expose something... It is at times like these that the walaa and baraa becomes clear and the previously blurry haze surrounding the hypocrites is dissipated. You will see even more clarity when Afghan civilians are being killed, and some "Muslims" cheer on the U.S. troops and wave the stars and stripes... "Let us learn an extremely important lesson from this, as this is indeed a staging for the emergence of both the Mahdi and the Dajjaal. We can benefit from this and prepare for when that does happen when scores of Muslims rush to join al-MaseeHu-Dajjaal, wa-l `eeyaathu billaah. "The Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said that the Mahdi would find refuge in Makkah, and a coalition of Arabs would march towards the Arabian Peninsula from Syria. Allah would cause the earth to swallow them up (earthquake?). Then the armies of "ar-Room" (Europeans) will go forth from ad-Daabiq (on the Turkish/Syrian border, site of a major U.S. military base today) towards the Arabian Peninsula to sieze him. Then an army will go forth from Madeenah to fight them. Of that Muslim army, one third will run away and Allah will never forgive them, one third will be killed and they will be the most splendid martyrs on the Day of Judgement, and the final third will conquer the Roman armies, w-Allaahu Akbar. They will then move forth towards Constantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey). Then they will bring down its walls without ANY WEAPONS simply by saying "laa ilaaha ilallaal w-Allaahu Akbar!!" ... "The point is that the scenario mentioned above in the Ahadeeth is very, very tangible now in our times. The entire world is ready to unite against a single man who embodies their fears of Islam. So when the Mahdi comes, you can imagine that they will indeed chase him to Makkah and then amass a large force against him. First they will send in the united secular Arab army, then after it has been disposed of they will go in themselves. This is their historical method." "So brothers keep your eyes open and your knowledge of the AshraaT as-Sa`ah fresh and SHARP." Kashif Wa Salaam PS In no way am i implying anything about Muslims who may live in a rough area and whose lives and whose properties are in danger and thus choose to change the way they wear their hijaab, or some other measure - because thats for your personal safety, but publicly insisting that Muslims need to learn to act *American* shows a blindness to the reality of the world and/or a distinct embarrassment for being Muslim.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Arsalan
09/18/01 at 23:37:46
"Yoo-luh-maaz" That's how this idiot (Tarek Masoud) pronounced the word "ulemaas" on CNN. Nuff said!

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
zanfaz
09/19/01 at 01:57:32
Shahi Imam warns against aiding US [url]http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1340642865[/url] TIMES NEWS NETWORK   NEW DELHI: It has come a week too late, but the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid Syed Ahmed Bukhari has broken his silence. Stating that the attacks in New York and Washington were not acts of terrorism, Bukhari said: "This is a reaction to past actions of the US — the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Vietnam war, sanctions against Iraq and sponsoring terrorism against Palestine. This is a jehad against America." He said: "Victims of US terrorism live all over the world. They could see blood only in New York and Washington?" With these attacks, the US has lost its superpower status. "Today, Osama bin Laden is the only superpower in the world, who brought the Americans to their knees." He, however, denounced terrorism. "No religion can tolerate terrorism. If the US can present credible evidence linking bin Laden to the attacks, then he will be tried according to the international law," he said. Warning Pakistan and India against aiding the US in any attack against Afghanistan, the Imam said: "If Afghanistan is attacked, then Pakistan will face the wrath of Afghan refugees. And if US is allowed to take root in India, it will mean the end of freedom for this country." Despite Tuesday's statement, many residents are waiting for their cue from the Imam in his Friday address.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
ZIL
09/21/01 at 09:24:15
[quote] "Yoo-luh-maaz" That's how this idiot (Tarek Masoud) pronounced the word "ulemaas" on CNN. Nuff said!   [/quote] I believe that was Mansoor Ijaz, another one of our "wonderful" analysts. Maybe neither of them can pronounce it.   Btw, Mr. Ijaz pronouned it Yoo-Lee-Muz.  When I first heard it, i thought he was trying to say Waleema.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
ahmer
09/19/01 at 11:12:18
[slm] Sorry to say, bqt guyz!! pls refrain from calling someone "idiot". A few months back, a shaykh told me that it is not permissible to call someone even "stupid" and even this falls under the category of 'fisq', which is at a high level of sins in Fiqh. This is wrong, cuz it falls under.. 1. Ghibah Why, cuz.. Prophet Mohammad [saw] said to his companions, “Do you know what Gheebah is?” They said, “Allah and His Messenger know best.” He said, “It is to mention something about your brother (in his absence) that he would hate.” It was said, 'What if what I say about my brother is true?’ He [saw] said: “If what you said about him is true then you would have backbitten him, and if it is not true, then you would have slandered him (buhtaan).” [Muslim] and 2. Slander Why, cuz.. "O you who believe! Let not a group scoff at another group, it may be that the latter is better than the former..." [Al-Hujuraat 49:11] I understand that we all get angry when people like these try to hurt Muslims by their words. But we need to stick to the values of tolerance among ourselves, when we demand tolerance from others. I am not casting blame on you brothers! Just pointing a little thing that sometimes we overlook. Insha'Allah we can all correct each other and forge a better community. These little things actually propelled the earlier communities to glory. May Allah forgive me if i am wrong [wlm] ahmer

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
amatullah
09/19/01 at 13:38:28
Bismillah and salam, I am also saddened to see this. I felt like people are having to either be super patriotic OR they are made to be alligning themselves with the "enemy". That is so unfair, as there are many non muslims who are not so patriotic and are you not entitiled to your feelings towards your country? i think the thought police era is really here!

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Arsalan
09/19/01 at 16:57:06
[slm] What should I call an idiot, if not "idiot"?? Check out the commentary of Syed Abul A'laa Maududi of the verse in Surah al-Hujuraat that talks about 'gheebah' for a more comprehensive ruling on it. Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Kashif
09/19/01 at 17:07:15
I'm with Arsalan. What else can you call an Uncle Tom like that? Kashif Wa Salaam
NS

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
Saleema
09/19/01 at 18:13:15
[slm] I agree too. If he acts like an idiot, talks like an idiot and walks like an idiot, then he's an idiot. [wlm]

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
BroHanif
09/19/01 at 18:40:18
Aye I agree perhaps we could ask him to join a circus because that guy is a joke and its best if he gives up his day job and becomes a clown. Just like our puppet leaders. Hmm a circus full of clowns and puppet leaders going to nation to nation and recruiting more clowns and jokers for thier poor acts against humanity. Hmmm perhaps this circus could be called the UN...hmm.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
ahmer
09/20/01 at 09:35:49
[slm] Since Alim, Siddique & Muhsin agree on calling him an idiot, I can't say anything further.:) cuz you people have Ma'qam. I am just a Newbie :( May Allah forgive all of us! [slm] ahmer

speaking of "speaking for us"...
se7en
09/21/01 at 03:31:37
as salaamu alaykum, Hmm.   Brother Ahmer, please don't ever hesitate to correct people (in a nice manner, as you've done) or let people know about some knowledge you've gained. The people who disagreed with you are not scholars.  Their titles are not maqam, they're signs of addiction :P   Feel free to correct *anyone* on the board (including me) because we're all here to learn, improve and be better Muslims inshaAllah. take care :) wasalaamu alaykum.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
ahmer
09/21/01 at 04:29:43
salams well.... i was just kiddin abt maqam.  about addiction!, i have never been addicted so fast ever!! there must be some kinda drug on this msgboard.:) wat do u guyz deal in here?! newayz, it's better than the mailing lists i have been on. you atleast feel part of the community and it's kewl. right now it's 5 o'clock before fajr and i am typing.. so addicted!! well i was doing some other stuff anyways, probably good for getting up in fajr too! jazaka'Allah and peace ahmer:)

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
solehah
09/21/01 at 06:01:46
[quote]assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah Subhanallah, so much of the talent we have is going to waste with silly pekple like this taking the stage and elevating themselves to the position of spokespeople for the Muslims. [/quote] Waalaikumsalam wr wb The phenomenon of Muslims allowing themselves to compromise their beliefs and principles under pressure from non-Muslims is not new.  Many times throughout the history of mankind have we seen these sad but undeniable occurences. I have read the article you forwarded in your posting and although it saddens me it does not however surprise me.  In my country, I have heard non-Muslims expressed concern and worry over the increasing number of Muslimahs putting on the jilbab.  What was the response of the Muslim leaders ? One of them went so far as to say "We have to slow down the process of Islamisation". Na'uzubillah . The question remains, why do these people do this ? Its impossible for us to question someone's niat but still, actions like these tend to make the rest of us wonder. What is the motive behind such utterances ? What is the process of thought involved or was there thinking at all ? However, before we hasten to namecall ( pardon the jibe :) )I think we must be aware of some things.  I have to do some web and publication watch sometimes for my work and I have noticed that in some websites that promotes Islam-bashing, several negative articles and book reviews are done by Muslim-sounding persons.  I think the strategy is to make it seem as if the Muslims themselves are beginning to "see the light" and criticise Islamic thoughts and practices.   I am not here to assess Mr Masoud's religious identity because if he is Muslim then let Allah deal with his sentiments and if he is not, then he is not. Writing a reply to him and the paper that publishes his article would be a good step to take. On a lighter note, the question of calling someone an idiot or not is actually a reflection of one's practice of writing and expression. There is no need to actually go into a lengthy discussion on Ulama's point of view, in my humble opinion. Wallahualam.

Re: We don't need  people like this speaking for us!
bhaloo
09/21/01 at 09:05:41
slm I don't agree with calling people names as that reflects poorly on the person saying the names and is not good dawah at all.  If someone is spreading falsehood and deviant material point out the mistakes to warn people of this evil but there is no reason do resort to name calling.
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