Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| ahmer |
| 09/21/01 at 16:28:40 |
| [slm] Last night as i opened my inbox after returning from univ around 12, there was a big fitnah in the offing. Some brother emailed this despicable thing on the net about Shaykh Hamza, I don't know how many of you subscribe to msa-net mailing list! But here you go with the email. I haven't seen the President Bush's address to congress but many people did reportedly spot Shaykh Hamza clapping. [edit] Now there are quite a few things to it. The email itself forgets the basic Islamic adab or principles. I haven't seen the whole video. Tried to see last night on the web, but didn't spot him. Wallahu Alam!! But there is a storm developing in communities as to why did he go there and who invited him!! Actually people love him so much that they are distraught about it. As to why did he go there, First people do not realize that according to Shariah you cannot attack a person's motives if you haven't listened to his version. Since we don't have any explanation from Shaykh Hamza, we shouldn't even comment on his motive or reason. Secondly, Even if he did go there, what harm did he do? I understand that Bush's speech was full of venom and hate for Muslims and Islam. But if he was invited to the Congress, Shouldn't he have gone there? I mean afterall according to Shariah you are obligated to respect the law of the land where you live, be it kafir land. Thirdly most of the criticism is coming from quarters who are recent immigrants. They don't understand the sensitivities of converted Muslims or indigineous Muslims and they think that they can live here with a mindset foreign to this land.!! Can't live as two persons in one! The converted or indigenous Muslims were born here, they belong here and they have their roots here. What other option do they have? Loving America doesn't mean hating Islam. It's only the policies of the government that is wrong. It's extremely unjust on part of immigrants to expect that they can live aloof from the society where you live. Didn't Prophet Mohammad [saw] send Muslims to Habshah, they too went to the king of Habshah. No parallel, but my point is that it is not disallowed to go to the palaces of the kings. Now if we know that Shaykh Hamza endorsed the policies of the US govt, then we run into trouble. But as long as we don't know , we should give him the benefit of doubt. Lastly, why wasn't there a storm generated when ISNA President went to National cathederal and attended the service. There was music there too. Atleast there was no music in congress yesterday :) (for all the self styled defiant vanguards of islam!!) Just because he was a desi, he didn't warrant any criticism!! We have to understand the complexities of situation and act calmly. This was the reason why Prophet Mohammed had to say " No Non-Arab has any preference over an Arab or an Arab over Non Arab". He had to mention this just cuz a man from Habash said Azan at the final khutbah, and some people objected to it that he was from Habash. We have to be sensitive to the needs of Muslims who were born here. They are in a difficult situation. As long as Shaykh Hamza doesn't endorse the policies of the government, merely going to the congress doesn't mean that he is an outcast now. Every Islamic Movement's leader regularly meets with the US admin people. Can we consider all of them as rebels.!! And still i dont' have any confirmation of his presence there, i am still looking for offical word from him. But i ask everyone to uphold the values of justice and tolerance.! You cannot just go after an Alim or Shaykh in Islam without proper proof or contention. It's all rumors whatever we are listening to right now.!! Just read these Ayah and Hadith... 049.012 " O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs " The Messenger (peace be upon him) also said: "...And whoever knowingly argues uselessly, Allah will continue to be angry with Him until he refrains from it, and whoever says about a believer, that which is not in him Allah will house him in a mill of the people of the fire of Jahannam until he leaves off what he said ..." [Abu Dawood, Al-Haakim & others] May Allah save us all and give hidaya [wlm] ahmer [color=red][edited by admin][/color] |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Nazia |
| 09/21/01 at 09:54:38 |
| slm, I'm sorry, but that email that was sent to you is absolutely ludicrous!!!! He was not clean shaven...he ALWAYS has a goatee! In fact, I remember hearing one of his lectures where he was telling the audience he was soo distraught over the fact that he genetically just COULD not grow hair on the main part of his face---just scragglies. And WHO CARES if he's wearing a suit??!! Since when did that become Un-Islamic?? Some people need to relax... [quote]He's sitting there in Congress with a big smile on his face[/quote] Ok, good, glad we could clear things up--incase you guys missed it, smiling is now not allowed in Islam. *rolling eyes* At the moment they panned to the Sheikh, Bush had just mentioned what a peace-loving religion Islam was and how Muslims were our friends. I'm sure a lot of Muslims smiled at the comment. Granted everything Bush said was not entirely something we can agree with, but what is Hamza Yusuf supposed to do? Get up and make a scene? Yell at the President in front of Congress and on National television??? He was invited, obviously, which I think is cool in and of itself. Sheikh Hamza is a well-respected Muslim scholar and people should think long and hard before they decide to attack his intentions. Grr.. May Allah (SWT) remove the ugly arrogance from all of our hearts! Ameen!! Sorry..I just *hate* when average Muslims put down scholars and worse yet, attack their Islam. Whatever happened to giving the benefit of the doubt? (Not that that's even necessary here, I don't think he <Sheikh Hamza> did anything odd at all--and I saw the whole speech). I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Why must we ALWAYS assume the worst of people?? He is clearly a well-respected Imam, so instead of assuming his intentions are bad, why can't we assume that there's a flaw in our *own* ignorant, unsophisticated reasoning??? Its one thing to disagree with the man, its a whole other issue when you start publicly claiming he's promoting a "different" Islam. Astaghfirullah. Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/21/01 at 10:08:22 |
| What the hell is wrong with you guys? Are you obsessed with Hamza Yusuf? Why is it that when someone critisizes him you guys go ballistic? He is no prophet, so stop treating him like one. I dont hear this defence of Sheikh Nassruddin Al-Albaanee, i dont hear you come to the defence of sheikh Ibn Baaz. So why is it that when Hamza Yusuf is critisided, you guys are distraught? Get your priorities right. Afghanisatn and the muslims are about to me murdered by Bush and his boys, why would ANY muslim smile at a complement givien by such an islaam hating scoundral as bush is BEYOND ME. I didnt hear that speech, but if Bush complemented islaam, i would have thrown up! This is the same guy that wants to wipe out islaam, his fight on terrorism, is not a fight on terrorism, is an attack to wipe out islaam, he calls it his crusade. Only a fool would smile at a complement from a small Dajjal like bush. All bush needs is an eye in the middle of his forhead. He has the weasal like looks, and the curly hair, all he needs is the eye, and walla, he is the DAJJAL! |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| ahmer |
| 09/21/01 at 10:13:32 |
| sister u don't need to be sorry about calling that email "ludicrous" That was ludicrous!! and i agree absolutely with all what you said, People have stopped looking at their ownselves. and are running after the Imams and Shaykhs..!! and everything is based on rumor, hunch and bad guesss Istighfirullah!! i really got sooooooooooooooo angry ):( when i read that email, i wanted to email him back but Quran says "When you meet the ignorant (Jahiloon) you say salam" [wlm] ahmer |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Kashif |
| 09/21/01 at 10:23:54 |
| [color=red]Warning. The only circumstance in which this thread won't be locked is if you discuss the issue of Muslims going to the White House in general and not as a BASE to attack Hamza Yusuf.[/color] |
| NS |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Learner |
| 09/21/01 at 10:26:40 |
| slm :) Just a reminder to all of us including myself regarding the articles of the CONSTITUTION OF THE MADINA. [quote]5. Anything insulting any other person(s), groups, organizations, fellow posters or moderators will be removed. 6... 7... 8. No cursing. (Also posts in languages not understood will be deleted b/c who knows what they're saying!) 9. Please follow the general Islamic guidelines of adaab (proper conduct relating to each other). Please remember that literally hundreds of people are reading your words, including many many non-Muslims. You have a responsibility in this. Remember this verse at all times: Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance (Quran 16:125) [/quote] wlm :) |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| ahmer |
| 09/21/01 at 10:38:04 |
| [slm] ok bro mujahid i need these answers to the questions from you? I respect all the Imams and Shaykhs as much as Shaykh Hamza, and personally i am strictly against basing anything on rumor against anyone? 1. Do you know why did he smile and how do you know? 2. Did you object to ISNA President's presence at the national service? and if you do or don't why? 3. How do you know his intention of being present there? 4. Did you object to Shaykh Ibn Baaz when right under his nose, Saudi Arabia's oil reserves were captured by US in late 70s, Shaykh Hamza atleast didn't make a furtive agreement with Bush. 5. We are no blind followers of Hamza, but anger should be separated from the facts from the rumors. 6. Everything that is being said about his presence there is based on rumors and noone has any proof, can't you give him the benefit of doubt? 7. About the beard, I am sorry brother, but you can't comment on anyone's beard? It's his understanding, It's absolutely uncalling for you to comment like this. and there are many more questions [wlm] ahmer |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Nazia |
| 09/21/01 at 10:49:50 |
| slm, Br.mujaahid, with all due respect, my post was in general directed towards people who are in the habit of putting down *any scholar* based upon their limited knowledge of the man and of Islam. I went "ballistic" because I cannot stand to see Muslims put down scholars. ANY scholar. [quote]He is no prophet, so stop treating him like one. [/quote] Astaghfirullah...NOBODY is treating him like a Prophet and you SHOULD NOT be putting those words in people's mouths. Moderators: Please don't lock this thread on my account, I'll stay out, Insha'Allah. Take Care, Wassalam, Nazia |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| mujaahid |
| 09/21/01 at 11:02:06 |
| Because of the current difficulty we muslims are in i do not wanna answer those question as it may cause disunity amongst us. But why do you guys seem so sensitive over Hamza Yusuff? I cannot understand it! It just dont make sense! Is this site sponsored by him or something? I've rarely come across people so sensitive to critisism as those who hear critisism directed at Hamza Yusuf! Why is this? Please dont answer, just ask yourselves this. If you critisezed Al-baani, or Ibn Baaz, i would never react the way you guys have! Who do Hamza Yuseffs poeple react like this? |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Saleema |
| 09/21/01 at 11:09:47 |
| [slm] Mujahid, why are you so full of anger? Your anger seems very unhealthy, why don't you go to the gym and punch out a bag, that's a good way to release stress. All of us love our muslim brothers and sisters in Afghanistan just as much as we love other muslims around the world. You just joined our message board not too long ago so don't accuse us of not defending sheikh ibn baz and other scholars. we love and respeect all of them and do not worship them. If you haven't noticed we are very respectful towards each other on this board most of the time. I admit, all of us do slip sometimes but mostly the environment here is good and healthy. People here in the US are screaming that we need good PR for the muslims if we don't want further backlash against the us. Imagine if Hamza Yusuf would have rejected the invitation--what would the media have said about that? He was representing *us,* his rejection would have possibly hurt the Muslim's relation with the US further. In Houston we formed a coalition of fifferent organizations and broke off into different committees. I'm on the media committee and one thing that we decided is that we need American converted Muslims and children of immigrants to come on TV so that when Americans listen to them, they *hear* american, not a foreign accent. So before you jump the gun, gain some knowledge of the media game and politics, and the Islamic concept of innocent until proven guilty. Don't do to Hamza Yusuf what the non muslims are doing to Osama bin Laden. Whoever wrote the orginal email should be very ashamed of himself. [wlm] |
| Re: A fitnah about Shaykh Hamza brewing!!!?? |
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| Arsalan |
| 09/22/01 at 03:07:49 |
| [slm] Subhan Allah! I should not be surprised by such things anymore, I know, but I must say I am *shocked* to see such a ridiculous thread! I saw the address last night. I also saw Hamza Yusuf in the audience. He was wearing a suit, listening attentively to the address. He was not smiling. To the contrary, he had a very serious (almost disgusted) look on his face. And he did not clap! In fact, when they had the camera on him, Bush was speaking, and there was no applause from the audience during those 5 seconds. So why would he be clapping? [quote]What the hell is wrong with you guys? Are you obsessed with Hamza Yusuf? Why is it that when someone critisizes him you guys go ballistic? He is no prophet, so stop treating him like one. [/quote]I do not understand what is the cause for such harsh language from our dear brother mujaahid. Is it not an appropriate response, yaa akhee, to be upset if a shaykh is accused of things he did not do? It is not a simple criticism, but a false accusation. And if we suppose for a moment that it was indeed a simple criticism upon the shaykh, even then there are aadaab that must be followed when criticizing people of knowledge (in fact, proper aadaab need to be followed *even* when criticizing Muslims in general, whether they be people of knowledge or otherwise -- for the fact that one pronounces the shahaadah itself gives him such dignity and respect that should not be breached). Did anyone, before making such criticisms, find out why the shaykh was (reportedly) smiling? Maybe his smile held a sarcasm at the hypocritical speech of the President. Maybe he was smiling at his southern accent. Maybe someone sitting behind the President at that time had done something stupid which brought a smile on his face. (Actually this happened several times ... there were two people sitting behind the President. Every time there was applause, there was confusion between the two people about whether or not they should stand up. Several times, one of them stood up and clapped while the other one remained seated. It was so funny that I was laughing sitting on my couch in my living room!) Who knows! [quote]I dont hear this defence of Sheikh Nassruddin Al-Albaanee, i dont hear you come to the defence of sheikh Ibn Baaz. [/quote]If such a ridiculous and unfounded accusation was made against Shaikh Albaanee, or Shaykh Bin Baaz (rahimahumallaah), I would be the first to deny it, bi'idhnillaah. Actually, such an incident did take place on this board before (against Shaykh Bin Baaz), and several people stood up and spoke against it. Myself included. [quote]So why is it that when Hamza Yusuf is critisided, you guys are distraught? [/quote]I have already answered this question. But I think the real question that should be answered is ... why aren't you and the others distraught when a man of knowledge is accused falsely in public, with no evidence, and in a way which lacks all aadaab? [quote]Get your priorities right. Afghanisatn and the muslims are about to me murdered by Bush and his boys, why would ANY muslim smile at a complement givien by such an islaam hating scoundral as bush is BEYOND ME. I didnt hear that speech, but if Bush complemented islaam, i would have thrown up! This is the same guy that wants to wipe out islaam, his fight on terrorism, is not a fight on terrorism, is an attack to wipe out islaam, he calls it his crusade.[/quote]Subhan Allah! You yourself admit, yaa akhee, that you did not even hear (let alone watch) the speech. Yet you are so quick to jump to conclusions my brother. Can I ask, is this the behavior that we have been taught by our beloved Prophet (pbuh) to carry? Is this how impulsive the reactions of the Sahaabah were regarding their brothers and sisters, especially those whom they considered more learned in the Deen than themselves? [quote]Only a fool would smile at a complement from a small Dajjal like bush. All bush needs is an eye in the middle of his forhead. He has the weasal like looks, and the curly hair, all he needs is the eye, and walla, he is the DAJJAL![/quote]I do not remember what Bush was saying at that moment when Hamza Yusuf was on camera. Maybe Sr. Nazia is right, maybe Bush was talking about the Muslims at that time. But what you should find out first, on your own, is if he smiled or not (and believe me, he did not!). And if he did, then find out why he smiled? I, too, smiled at many instances during the address. But those were smiles of sarcasm at the utter hypocrisy of the entire address and the audience, not signs of contentment at what Bush was declaring. May Allah give us the wisdom to discern truth from falsehood, and speak in a manner which pleases Him and brings people towards the Truth. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| don't mess |
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| se7en |
| 09/21/01 at 16:26:37 |
as salaamu alaykum, I'm probably the last person who should be saying this, (considering my tongue has gotten me into trouble very recently) but learn from *my* mistake and think deeply about these words: [color=black] O you who believe! Avoid suspicion as much as possible: for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind each others backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? No, you would abhor it...But fear Allah, for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (49:12) Abu Musa ra said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of the Muslims are best?" He [saw] said, "The one who keeps the Muslims safe from his tongue and his hand." (Agreed upon) Abu Hurayrah ra said he said he heard the Prophet [saw] say, "Verily the servant speaks a word without having surety in it, and because of it he slips into the Hellfire farther than the distance between the East and the West." (Agreed upon) [/color] --- We do not tolerate bashing of ANY scholar -- whether it be Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Bin Baaz, or Albaani. And, to clarify your assumption brother Mujaahid, this is a non-profit site made by Muslims with *no* affiliation to any group, party, or shaykh. We are Muslims who like to *act* like Muslims, who strive to be Mu'minoon, and Rasulullah [saw] said: "It is unworthy of a Mu'min to injure people's reputations; and it is unworthy to curse any one; and it is unworthy to abuse any one; and it is unworthy of a Mu'min to talk arrogantly." If you look into some of the older (and mostly locked) threads - we've seen criticism of practically *every* scholar who's ever tried to do anything for Islam, and we try to have one consistent policy: NO SCHOLAR BASHING. This thread will now be locked. If you have any questions or problems get in contact with me. wasalaamu alaykum. |
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