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US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
ahmer
09/21/01 at 23:54:14
Asalamu'alaikum, This report really sadenned me, I was lost in thoughts and got frustrated. What will happen to Taliban? Will they perish? Travesty of justice! We muslims are all sleeping. This is soo tragic and cruel.! Like my Saudi univ friend told me yesterday that when Umroo bin Aas went to conquer Egypt, he asked for the Muslim army to be sent to him, and Omar (r.a) sent him only 5 men!! how strong men of character they were.!! Just read this and it can make you weep at another Chechnya, Bosnia or Iraq in the making!!! May Allah help those people. I was shocked to see the plans of evil in this report. Like Allah said, "..If they plot their evil, designs they move mountains" Please make dua, for Muslims! [wlm] ahmer Secret memo reveals US plan to overthrow Taliban regime Ian Traynor in Tajikistan and Gary Younge in Washington Friday September 21, 2001 [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4261737,00.html[/url] The US government is pressing its European allies to agree to a military campaign to topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and replace it with an interim administration under United Nations auspices. Diplomatic cables from the Washington embassy of a key Nato ally, seen by the Guardian, report that the US is keen to hear allied views on "post-Taliban Afghanistan after the liberation of the country". The embassy cable reveals that the US administration is bent on force to evict the Taliban from power because of the shelter it has offered Osama bin Laden, named by the White House as prime suspect for the New York and Washington atrocities on September 11. The Guardian has also learned that two large US Hercules transport aircraft landed in Tashkent, capital of the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan, on Tuesday loaded with surveillance equipment to be installed along the northern Afghan border. The secret landing represented a radical departure since it appeared to herald the deployment of squadrons of US fighters at Uzbekistan's sprawling airfield at Termez, directly on the border. Such a build-up would incur the wrath of Russia which views the central Asian republics as its backyard. The Pentagon yesterday continued its move to a war footing, with orders for up to 130 heavy bombers, fighters, aerial refuelling planes and other combat aircraft to be deployed around the Middle East and Central Asia region. Two B-52 bombers yesterday left Barksdale airbase in Louisiana, joining F-15E fighter-bombers, F-16 fighters, B-1 long range bombers and E-3 Awacs airborne command-and-control aircraft that left on Wednesday. The navy has also sent an additional aircraft carrier toward the Middle East region,which along with the air deployment could place up to 500 US warplanes in the Mediterranean, Gulf and Indian Ocean areas. Tony Blair, in Washington last night to meet Mr Bush, suggested military strikes inside Afghanistan, targeted on Bin Laden's training camps, could come in a matter of days. "These people, if they could, would get access to chemical, biological and nuclear capability. We have no option but to act," he said. The US strategy to depose the Taliban regime is based on more than military thinking. A further plank appears to entail supporting the campaign of the exiled 86-year-old monarch of Afghanistan, King Zahir Shah, to return to power by encouraging the guerrilla army of the Northern Alliance opposition to fall in behind him. Diplomatic documents seen by the Guardian show that Washington is funding and organising the travel of several Northern Alliance figures to Rome to confer with the exiled monarch who is expected to call for a revolution. "The king plans to call on all the Afghan tribes to rise up against the Taliban," the diplomatic cable reported yesterday, citing the advice of the US administration. US plans to overthrow the Taliban regime were revealed when a senior European politician in Washington this week was told by the US administration that it wanted to hear his country's views on how Afghanistan should be run after the Taliban were defeated and that "closer consultations" were necessary. The Americans also spoke of a role for the UN in the new "interim administration" for Afghanistan and for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe in central Asia, without mentioning Nato. Washington is routinely sceptical of the UN and OSCE, but the key role was seen as an attempt to build as broad a coalition as possible behind the imminent campaign. The Europeans, Russia, and even China might be swayed by the unusual US inclusiveness, diplomats said. "It's a major change of US policy," said one. The spying mission in Uzbekistan is also fraught with political risk. The two Hercules could not fly over Iran, but Turkmenistan, the third ex-Soviet state bordering Afghanistan granted permission. However, diplomats said the Turkmens were less keen to grant overflying rights to US fighter aircraft heading for the Afghan border.

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
mango
09/22/01 at 09:15:02
Assalamu Alaikum, Have you ever lived in Afghanistan under their rule?? Maybe we should hear from someone who has. We can just pray that no civilians will be hurt.

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
ahmer
09/22/01 at 10:16:38
[slm] whatever the regime, the way of furtively overthrowing them is despicable. Even if one doesn't like Taliban, the fashion is not correct. Imagine any government to be ousted like this? It can be the next government too after Taliban. Anyone can smell the real motive, and besides If they attack it will be the same innocent civilians you and i are praying for, that will be killed, Did they kill Saddam when they attacked Iraq, No, Only innocent Muslims got killed! This is just a pretext to divide the Ummah b/w pro taliban and against taliban. I personally don't agree with a lot of Taliban policies. But the people who are going against them, have a larger grudge against Islam. [wlm] ahmer

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
bhaloo
09/22/01 at 10:54:09
slm This is just a plot to remove an Islamic state and replace it with a regime that will be a puppet of the US.  This is a war to target innocent Muslims that have nothing to do with this criminal activity that happened at the WTC.  I'm not aware of any problems with the Taliban. Sheikh Qaradawi had this to say: "We warn America that all the Muslim world will unite against it if it acts on its whims and its  haughty drive to hit innocent people. Many leaders may submit to U.S. tyranny and threats, but the people will not submit. America will not frighten the people, they will not be scared off by its military arsenal, nuclear weapons or economic might because they believe in God,"

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
BroHanif
09/22/01 at 11:22:39
Let me keep this short, for the people who are against the Taliban, what is your problem...?? Do you not know that they are THE only Islamic State in the world. Forget your Saudia and UAE, Syria, Pakistan, Indonesia these are all sell outs, sell outs to the world and its temporary abode. I know I shouldn't compare people but if you want an example of the Sahabah then look at the Taliban, look at the valour they have for Islam, look at what they said to the world, 'Come take us, we are ready', certainly they are ready for the defence and honour of Islam. Tell me which country in the world has the guts to say this...??? The Taliban are not afriad of no one, ONLY ALLAH. They are ready to die for Islam that is more than me, you and a whole lot of people are preapred to do for Islam. They are under immense pressure from all the countries of the world, however what is their stance on Islam that we can not forsake our neighbour for that is an insult to Islam. Look at the hadiths in practice in that country and then look at the pathetic countrys that say yes we are a muslim country as well,  how sad and full of lies. Where are the Muslim leaders of the world today...??? What answer will they give to Allah most high on the day of judegement. You bring your one proof of what they are doing wrong and they the 'Taliban' will bring you the complete Quran and Sunnah. Me and you only do not like their policies because it appears strange, is it becuase in the so called Muslim countrys you can get an alcoholic drink and listen to the Azaan at the same time and have no fear of prosecution ? Is it because we like to watch TV,listen to music and commit zinah of the eyes and ears ? Is it because we like to see women in croped tops and skirts and not in hijaab ? Is it because we like to be clean shaven and look like an idiot rather than looking like a 'Real' muslim hero. Is it because we can commit sexual acts so easily and have no shame just like the pigs do ?  Is it because we are so brainwashed by the media that we believe anything but we find real Islam, Quran and Sunnah something strange and ajeeb.? They the Taliban have done me a miserable man who claims to be a muslim a favour to have felt what it must have been like at the battle of Khandaq, when the enemys surrounded Madina. They the Taliban have asked proof of Bin Laden and are happy to try him under Islamic Law, but the world refuses. They the Taliban are my brothers and sisters and I am envious of them that they will attain shadah, the best death that a person can attain. They the Taliban(Mullah Umar) will be under the Arsh of Allah becuase he is a just ruler. They the Taliban on the day of judegement will say to the likes of you and me, AbuFatimah what did you do for Islam, we gave our lives when it came to the defence of Islam and I will say er er er. I can't believe people are still talking about the issue of Talibans policies, if you are for the Taliban you are for Islam. If you are aginst the Taliban then surely you need to ask yourself why am I against em ? The least you can do is make dua for em, for tomorrow we certainly will be questioned for what we did and on that day we will have ourselves to blame if we are thrown in the fire.

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
mango
09/22/01 at 18:02:27
They (Taliban) claim to be “Islamic” but how is continuous civilian massacres at all Islamic? We all know about the civilian massacre in Mazar-E-Sharif when the Taliban murdered thousands of innocent civilians. Ok, one can say that was a big mistake. However it did not stop there. “…Another civilian massacre had taken place in Afghanistan, and the Taliban militia - credited by their chief sponsors within Pakistan’smilitary establishment for having restored “peace and security” to Afghanistan - were once again accused of having carried out a bloody purgeto intimidate civilians in contested regions. Eyewitnesses now say that atleast 210 Afghan men were gunned down in the central Yakawolang region, and 43 others - including women - were summarily executed in the northern Takhar province by retreating Taliban troops last month… (Feb 5, 2001)…” “…A UN official said: "The Taliban carried out a heavy aerial bombardment of the city during the fighting and, after entering it, ground troops set fire to every building. The town has burnt to the ground…” We can go on and on with all of the massacres and the injustices by the Taliban. Everyone knows these massacres have in fact occurred because there have been actual eyewitnesses. And as far as how Islamic they are we can decide for ourselves. But murdering thousands of people, burning down houses, and committing injustices on our fellow Muslims is in no way Islamic! And the sad part is that they say they are following the authentic "sharia." “Asad the eyewitness said, “we are amazed why the world is not aware of our condition and doesn’t hear our cry... are we not human?”

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
bhaloo
09/22/01 at 20:50:02
slm One brother who has first hand experience of the Afghanistan situation gave this reply: as-salaamu `alaykum, To answer the sister's question "Have you ever lived under their (Taliban) rule?", I have seen Afghanistan during the Soviet era, during the Post-Soviet/Warlord era, and during the Taliban era. Out of the three time periods the Taliban era is indisputably a period of liberation for the Afghan people. You have all this outcry about women being forced to wear chadoor, and men forced to wear beards, yet you heard NOTHING for the year period follkwing the Soviet withdrawal in which women, young girls, and boys were kidnapped routinely and sold in neighboring Pakistan. Rape was a way of life. In that time period under Mojaddidi at first then later Rabbani, there was absolutely no law anywhere in Afghanistan. Militia groups and their warlord did as they pleased while maintaining the epithet "Mujaahideen". One such warlord whom the Afghan people remember well is a man named Zardad. He currently lives in London and has a strong support amongst the anti-Taliban Afghans there. He fled Afghanistan in 1996 after the Taliban took over Kabul. Here is what Amnesty International had to say about him: "The program revealed that Zardad had killed unarmed civilians and he and his men have been involved in acts of torture, including rape, and that he allowed his men to carry out these human rights abuses." I am sure none of you heard of this man's name in spite of the fact that he murdered, raped, and tortured Afghan civilians for 5 years. There are hundreds of these Zardads who roamed Afghanistan like wild animals under Rabbani and Ahmad Shah Masood. However, when the Taliban ban music, ban TV, make women wear chadoor, force people to pray in the masjid, make men grow their beards, the entire world is in a flurry of outrage. All this in spite of all the things I mentioned being LAW according to Shari`ah. Just two months ago I met with some Uzbeks and Tajiks who were visiting Madeenah from Afghanistan. The Uzbeks and Tajiks are turkic minorities in Pashtoon dominated Afghanistan and are usually the most critical of the Taliban. I asked one of the Uzbek men what was the situation in Baghlan (where he lived). He replied, "there is still fighting" while making an assault rifle gun gesture. I asked him what he thought about the Taliban. He replied that they were "sakht", meaning strict or harsh, and did not like them, but went on to say, "I don't like them, but I can't deny that they brought law and order to Afghanistan and we have to thank them for that. For the first time since I can remember I can watch my daughter walk from one end of the street to the other and not worry". I also met a Hanafi Shaykh in front of the Ka`bah who was a Tajik from Afghanistan. I asked him about the situation in Afghanistan and he replied, "It seems like everyone just enjoys killing each other." I asked him what he thought of the Taliban. He replied, "They say that they bring Islam, but they have not done enough to include other races in their government. They need to sit at the table and create a broad based government. They  have brought law and order and good to Afghanistan, but this isn't enough. Everyone has to be included in Afghanistan." I met another man sitting in front of the qabr of the Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) with a big smile on his face. I immediately knew he was an Afghan so I approached him and said Salam. He was from Gardes and said he wandered between Afghanistan and Arabia most his life going from Makkah, Madeenah to Afghanistan. This is are the kind of devout Muslims you find in Afghanistan. The people are like no other Muslims I have seen in the entire world. I asked him about the situation in Paktia, and he replied, "its excellent. We have the Taliban now." Out of the many, many Afghans I sat with and talked to only 2 months ago, none had harsh words for the Taliban, whether they supported them or not. They had nothing to fear in Saudi Arabia so the "fear" excuse doesn't hold any water and is a bogus cop-out. You will find that the racism between the minority Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkomens, and other groups against the majority Pashtoons is isolated to America and Europe. The Afghans could care less about these differences and show true Islamic adab and hospitality regardless of race. The fact that these "expatriate Afghans" ran away from their obligation to defend their land is a reflection of their character. This is why racism has spread like wild-fire amongst expatriate Afghan societies. Every Indo-Pakistani is a "dall khor" (lentil eater), every Arab is a "wahhabi" or "shaafiyee", every Black or African is a "siyaa post" (black skin), every Pashtoon is a "Pakistani" (even if they are from as far away from Pakistan as Herat), and so forth. These disgusting attitudes are not found in Afghanistan. Anyone who is Afghan reading this knows the truth in what I am saying. Those who openly disagree also know the truth in what I am saying, yet deny it. The fact of the matter is that they hate Islamic law. I would challenge even one of them to come forth and say that they don't like music and don't listen to it for Islamic reasons. Just one. The fact is that they all love music and it is an every weekend event in their homes. Believe it or not this has a HUGE bearing upon their hatred for the Taliban who have completely banned music and TV. Also, most of the loudest in their opposition are women. They don't like the fact that chadoor is law, and khulwa (women alone with non-Muhram men) is illegal. Sorry to say, this is Shari`ah. If you don't like it, the world has many other religions you can choose from. However, if you choose to stick with Islam, which is the Truth, then you can't pick and choose what you like from it and discard what you don't like from it. So my questions remain to these expatriate Afghans who are so rabid against the Taliban: If you are so concerned with Afghanistan why don't you go there and fix it? Why complain from the comfort of your homes? I had my concerns about the Taliban and went and met with some high Taliban diplomats and officials and expressed my concerns. The concerns were met with great respect and they told me, "Everyone wants to complain, but no one wants to help. We have much to learn, so we want people to come and teach us." The Taliban are not perfect and they will be the first to admit this. Yet, they are begging for people from the Muslim world, particularly Islamic scholars who have shown no interest at all, in advising them and helping them improve. Everyone is really loud in complaining, but none are prepared to help. The bottom line now is that you have a non-Muslim coalition amassing against an innocent Muslim country that has as much to do with this WTC tragedy as does Cambodia. They have absolutely nothing to do with it. Thus, the Muslims are obligated to defend their brethren from the onslaught of the kuffaar at ALL COSTS. There is no difference of opinion in this. The Northern Alliance has pledged over 15,000 of their soldiers to help the Americans in their invasion of Afghanistan. That strikes them out from the pale of Islam right there and counts them amongst the hypocrites. The Taliban are the ones who will be fighting against the invasion and this makes them MUJAAHIDEEN, with NO difference of opinion. Whether you previously liked them or not, within a matter of days they are going to be Mujaahideen engaged in Jihaad defending their land from a non-Muslim invader. Surat at-Tawbah is also called "Surat al-FaaDiHa". "FaaDiaHa" in Arabic means "that which exposes". It was called this because times of Jihad are when the Believers and the Hypocrites reveal themselves clearly, and the Hypocrites who  hid amongst the Muslims are exposed. Always remember this and it will make a lot of situation become crystal clear in the troubling times that are ahead of us as an Ummah. was-salaamu `alaykum

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
ahmer
09/22/01 at 21:36:00
salams bro arshad!! Jazaka'Allah khair for such a wonderful thoughts forwarded from your friend. I know a number of secular muslim journalists who went to tour Afghanistan and they came back as supporters of Taliban. The peace established there is exemplary! In fact I know a woman journalist who told that the rapes were so widespread in Afghanistan that Taleban originated from such an incident, when one of the raped woman went to a religious school and told the people there. They went to act against the commander and this whole concept of Taleban were formed. Wallahu Alam [wlm] ahmer

Re: US plan to overthrow Taliban regime, It's cruel to all of us!
jannah
09/23/01 at 01:18:55
[color=red]The topic of the Taliban is CLOSED. We have had this discussion to NO benefit MANY TIMES. Proof of this is in the many threads that have caused people to LEAVE the board and even LEAVE ISLAM because of it. Please let's not bring this up again in a time we really need to be focused on our unity and the more pressing priorities at hand.  Jazakamuallahu khairan.
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