Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!

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Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
ahmer
09/27/01 at 00:08:24

Berlusconi Comments Cause Stir

Updated: Wed, Sep 26 5:06 PM EDT

By CANDICE HUGHES, Associated Press Writer

ROME (AP) - Breaking ranks with allies reaching out to the Muslim world, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday said Western civilization is superior to Islam. He also said he hopes the West conquers Islamic civilization.

The conservative billionaire's remarks were instantly disavowed by more moderate politicians in Italy, who called them both ill-timed and offensive.

Berlusconi made the remarks, which were broadcast on Italian television, after talks in Berlin with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Russian President Vladimir Putin on the crisis sparked by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.


He told a news conference, "We must be aware of the superiority of our civilization, a system that has guaranteed well-being, respect for human rights and - in contrast with Islamic countries - respect for religious and political rights, a system that has as its values understandings of diversity and tolerance."

He also claimed Western civilization is superior because it "has at its core, as its greatest value, freedom, which is not the heritage of Islamic culture."

Berlusconi went on to say that he trusts "the West will continue to conquer peoples, like it conquered Communism," even if it means a confrontation with "another civilization, the Islamic one, stuck where it was 1,400 years ago."

His comments came as many Western leaders were taking pains to avoid antagonizing the Muslim world and forge a worldwide coalition against terrorism. President Bush, for example, met Wednesday with American Sikhs and Muslims at the White House and issued yet another appeal for religious tolerance.

The reaction in Italy to Berlusconi's comments was swift and sharp. They were denounced by a number of Italian politicians as irresponsible and inflammatory.

Piero Fassino, a prominent member of the center-left opposition, called the comment "mistaken and, above all, inopportune."

"We're in a very delicate phase in the life of the planet. We need to unite the world against terrorism. And one of the conditions is to unite religions, to have civilizations and cultures cooperate," said Fassino.

An outspoken businessman, Berlusconi has only limited foreign policy experience, despite a brief, previous turn as prime minister in 1994. The allies in his conservative coalition include the often xenophobic Northern League and the once neo-fascist National Alliance.

Italy is home to at least 500,000 Muslims, many of them immigrants from North Africa.

The prime minister plans to visit Washington soon for talks with Bush on the terrorism crisis. A member of NATO, Italy has pledged its full cooperation.
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
Saleema
09/27/01 at 01:45:25
[slm]

Well, at least the man is not being hypocritical like the rest of the Great Civilization of the West and their Chief gods.

[wlm]
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
mujaahid
09/27/01 at 02:31:01
Maashaalah!!!

I read that on several web sites! Berlusconi, i respect you for having the guts to speak the truth or that which you feel in your heart. Let this be a warning now to all those liberal muslims who felt this was not an attack on Islaam!

All along they said it was not a war on Islaam, but this has just shown their true intentions, and maybe now the muslims will wake up.

Bush called it a crusade, Berlusconi has said its between christianity and Islaam.

An attack on Afghanistan is an attack on Islaam.

Kufr coalition, attack at your perile. Islaam is ready and waiting.
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
bhaloo
09/27/01 at 02:32:08
slm

Yep, at least he was honest out of all the western people.  
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
explorer
09/27/01 at 18:03:09
[slm]

The Italians are generally quite hateful towards Islam. I read somewhere theres a Cathedral in Italy with a huge painting (apparently few centuries old) showing the Prophet in an evil way, standing in hellfire surounded by serpernts or something of the sort. Despite protests from muslims, the italian authorities have refused to remove it or take any action ):(

This bald-headed beagle Berlusconi is just reaffirming what we've always known.

Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
Haseeba
09/27/01 at 19:51:20

[quote]

The Italians are generally quite hateful towards Islam.
[/quote]

yeah he spoek the truyth but no offence i just wanted to point out that we dont like being generalized as terrorists and we should not generalize others either such as saying all of a certain type of people are racist.... whatever neways i read some garbage bout bin laden that said he abused women because she had underdeveleved reprodeuctive organs and jusk like that....how had this stuff be allowed to publish when it is unfounded? /..... or maybe its true but the wayh it was ridden was very very offensive
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
assing
09/27/01 at 20:39:32
From now one he (Berlusconi) should be refered as "kalb ar rum" {the dog of the Romans}, just as the muslim khalifah Al Mutasim called the ruler of Romans {about roughly 1200 yrs ago} when that ruler demanded the muslims give back all the jizyah that the have been taking from the Romans. Al Mutasim replied: "From the khalifah of the muslims to Noqfuur 'kalb ar rum', O son of a kaafirah; the answer will be one that which you will see and not the one you will hear". End of the letter {ibn Katheer Al Bidayah wa Al Nihayah}. It is said that he prepared an army that began in Baghdad that extended all the way to Roman, and they defeated them and still imposed the jizyah upon them. I ask Allah to bring the let us see the granduer of Islam and the muslims as mentioned in this incident, and may He humiliate the enemies of islam as He humiliated those of the past. Ameen
NS
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
ahmer
09/27/01 at 23:36:29
[slm]

i do have a strange habit of finding Ayahs and Surahs for whatever happens in my life.. So just going wid the tradition

Ever since Mr Berlusconi spoke the truth! i wanted to find Allah's word on this !! and Wallahi ! the word of Allah is sooooooooooooooooooooo true!!

Please read this Ayah very carefully !!!!!

[img]http://islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/3/3_118.gif[/img]

[color=red]

O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom. 3:118
[/color]

Out of the Ayah!

They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths:

How can we expect anything good?

What their hearts conceal is far worse.

Can you just imagine what's going to come in the days ahead!!!!!

and lastly...

We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.

where do we stand in the light of this Ayah? We don't understand the signs all around us!

Time to think !!
all of us!!
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
M.F.
09/28/01 at 06:48:33
Ahmer, Jazak Allakh khair for that Ayah.  Subhan Allah it fits the moment so well.  
I almost wish that other "great leaders" of the western world would say the same thing (in public I mean because I'm sure they've already said it in private) so that the Muslims can really see how they feel about us, and so that they can unite and defend themselves if for nothing more than pride.
But in reality it's really hurtful to me to see someone talk about us that way and all he gets is a slap on the wrist (not even that, they just asked him to apologize and didn't try very hard).  It's shameful.
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
Sparrow
09/28/01 at 07:12:07
Okay, this guy is obviously a Grade A fool, yet y'all are acting as if he's some hero for speaking a "truth" that the rest of  us Westerners/non-Muslims are too hypocritical or too scared to say outloud.  (I know, alot of the responses have to do with Western leaders, but the implication is there that regular old American citizens feel this way too.) Please.  First off, if I believed something I would not be afraid to say it.  Second, not a SINGLE PERSON in my family or social sphere believes the c*&p that this Berlusconi is spewing, nor have we ever been anything but OPPOSED to US foreign policy in the Middle East.  Shocking as it may be, we are open-minded, interested in hearing opposing points of view, concerned about the fate of EVERYBODY in this mess, from WTC victims to Afghan citizens, and not looking to usher in a world-wide fall of Islam. Lumping all Westerners together (whether leaders or the common man) is as offensive to us as it is to Muslims when ignorant folks judge them all to be terrorists.    

Sparrow

Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
M.F.
09/28/01 at 09:59:01
Sparrow,
The replies were NOT implying that regular American citizens feel that way (although I'm sure some of them do).  Don't forget that a lot of people on the board live in America.
The point was that I personally believe that the actions of Western leaders in recent history have shown that they all think in the same way that Berlusconi does, but they disguise it, because it would be politically incorrect to come out and say it.
Berlusconi is no hero for having spoken his mind, it makes me personally (I won't speak for anyone else) despise him. I have no respect for him nor do I think he's any less hypocritical than the rest of them  
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
amal
09/28/01 at 14:38:33
slm,

Berlusconi is from the far right parties in Italy. That basically means he's a fascist ,neo-nazist, whatever you want to call it..

And he's even despised within his own country. In fact he was prime minister before and his government didn't last very long.

Now there are some westerners who think like berlusconi but this has nothing to do with islam in particular. People like him are against everyone and anything that is not white or originated by white people.Most of those who follow the far right are usually poor and illiterate and tend to blame foreigners for their misfortunes.

There are many westerners who are objective in their judgment and in fact do sympathize with muslims and these people in particular have the potential to be great muslims if we DON'T give up on them and lump them with the racists among their ranks. Just look at shaikh hamza yusuf,jeffry lang, murad hoffman,mohamed asad, and the list goes on.

We have to be very carefull not to commit the same mistake as those who equate muslims with terrorists.
Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
jannah
09/28/01 at 15:13:47
Posted by A:

Berlusconi regrets Islam jibe


The EU and Arab League were not impressed

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has defended himself against a storm of criticism over his assertion that Western civilisation is superior to Islam.
He says his remarks were poorly translated and quoted out of context.



I am sorry that words, badly interpreted, have offended the sensibility of my Arab and Muslim friends

Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi  
"They have tried to hang me on an isolated word, taken out of context from my whole speech," Mr Berlusconi told Italy's upper house of parliament.

The remarks enraged Islamic nations and were seen as undermining American efforts to build an international coalition against terrorism.

Western 'superiority'

On Wednesday, the flamboyant politician told reporters that Western civilisation was superior to Islam because it provided wealth and guaranteed respect for human rights.

He also said that he hoped "the West will continue to conquer peoples, like it conquered communism".



Mr Berlusconi's comments came at a bad time

The statement was denounced by European Union and Muslim leaders alike, while the Arab League called on Mr Berlusconi either to deny having made the comments or offer an apology.

Just hours before Friday's apology, British Home Secretary David Blunkett launched a public attack on the embattled Italian prime minister.

'Inappropriate'

Mr Blunkett described his remarks as inappropriate and inaccurate.

"It is clear that Berlusconi's remarks were offensive and offence has been taken," he told the BBC.

"They were inappropriate in terms of the way in which they affect the consensus across the world in the face of terrorism, and they were culturally inaccurate."

Mr Blunkett called on the Italian leader to repair any damage his comments may have caused.

"I hope he will be able to clarify his position, in order to be a constructive part of the consensus to bring about justice by tackling the terrorists rather than falling out among ourselves," he said.

Re: Berlusconi : This guy is not just kidding!
BroHanif
09/28/01 at 18:00:46
I must say his the best PM I've ever seen, reason is his honest and his not one of those deceiving primeiers who say one thing and does the complete opposite.

For us muslims, its another wake up call, its like a small punch to the nose, get with the program, people they are out to get us. The kufr in all their ways are going to unite and destroy Islam, simple.

This Italian PM is a brave man, his honest and his said what every politician wanted to say but deep down the other guys just don't have the guts to do it, yet. Very soon they too will start to voice thier concerns maybe it won't be a direct attack on Islam but it will start off gradually stripping it off, slowly without the masses of muslims realising whats happening.

For instance, the west already has a tarnished view of women wearing hijaab, now the dreaded J word jihad is automatically linked with terrorism. (Anyone caught in this 'J' activity will face a term in prison with two men with the names of Lisah and Kathy.)
Now the idea is to study what the hijaab and jihaad is about once you terminate these two concepts of Islam you then move onto something else to destroy. How about keeping a kufr army in the most holiest of places on earth ? How about brainwashing people that the third haram does not exist, or if it does then dilute its spiritual value.
Then lets move on to chant about the freedom of women and how women are degraded in Islam, isn't this happening right now...???

Our solution lies in only deen, and follwing the whole deen. Let us turn to Allah and repent for our ways otherwise, more muslim blood will be spilt and we will have no one to blame but ourselves.


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