double standards??

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double standards??
flyboy_nz
09/30/01 at 17:01:35
asalaamu alaikum,

brothers, I'm sure most of you are living in western societies.  Something that concerns me is people having double standards when it comes to religion and everyday life.  I've been having an e-mail discussion with a sister in our MSA about the need for the partition to be fully closed in the Islamic Centre when we hold our weekly meetings.  She says we should avoid fitnah in a place of worship.  We're at a university and she says that we can't help the classes being mixed, so we have to put up with it.

The sisters are all properly covered with hijaab for the meeting (even tho most don't wear it outside the centre) and we do sit apart.... is the partition really necessary??

My argument was that in this situation we should practice modesty by lowering our gaze. The partition not only hinders communication by muffling voices and disencouraging discussion....but also makes us neglect the fact that we have to lower our gaze.  The partition disencourages modesty in everyday life because people don't learn to lower their gaze.

do we really need to go to such extremes?

wasalaam,
Ahmed
Re: double standards??
Arsalan
09/30/01 at 19:49:37
Wa'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

The sister is not *required* to be behind a curtain/partition in this case.  However, it is her right to ask for more privacy if she wishes.  If you are the president of the group then it is your duty to respect that right and provide her with as much privacy as humanly possible.

Wallahu a'lam.

Wassalamu alaikum.
Re: double standards??
jannah
09/30/01 at 21:30:26
I'm surprised. I've never heard of any active sisters in an msa actually *wanting* a curtain/purdah type thing because as you said it hinders communication along with other problems. If all the sisters really want the absolute separation then that's their perogative. It could be a case of one person having certain standards which are different from the rest but insists on implementing it, which happens often. In that case maybe you can ask around and just see what everyone is comfortable with.
Re: double standards??
BroHanif
10/01/01 at 04:52:44
Er partition is necessary, there is no such thing as extreme how can the conversation be muffled...??? Why can't you simply get a curtain and then talk, or why can't you get a couple of speakers or even use some other forms of comms...???.

In Islam everything is within reason, if the classes are mixed how are you going to talk to the sisters by lowering your gaze and looking at the floor...??? C'mon man, women and men in the same room, minimal hijaab in between thats a recipe for disaster.

How can it be an Islamic discussion when we are against the very norms of Islam. It only seems extreme because we have not been taught the correct way.

Salaams

Hanif
Re: double standards??
Mujaahid
10/01/01 at 06:45:09
as salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi ta'ala wa barakaatuh
Brothers and sisters BroHanif is correct here, who is stating that the Hijaab (and in this I mean the barrier between the men and women) in the closed room is not required? Since when did the rules of segregation become relaxed, this issue of not hearing or muffling, I do not think is valid.

'Ayesha (ra) never used to see any non-mahram men without a barrier between herself and them, same with the others of the prophet's s.a.w wives, and it has been argued that this was because they had a special status and requirements - that is incorrect, the women at the time and after the time of the prophet s.a.w from amongst the companions used to observe the barrier between themselves and non-mahram men when in the closed room situation, between walls. I dont think there can be much discussion over this.

The alternative is something not supported by the sunnah whatsoever, men and women in the same room without segregation, lowering the gaze has nothing to do with this circumstance, the believers are aksed to lower their gaze when they go about and are in the company of sisters in the open areas, in a room which is enclosed it is starkly against the sunnah NOT to have the division and separation.

This was passed from my shaykh, whom learnt from his shaykh, and him from his, I do not speak from my own mouth, and I do not think you would find it in the CONSENSUS of the 'Ulemaa allowing the mixing of the brothers and sisters, because if there is no barrier between them, then this is mixing. Nothing harsh or extreme in this, it is part of our deen.

Allaahu alam.

was salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi ta'ala wa barakaatuh
Re: double standards??
flyboy_nz
10/01/01 at 07:20:39
asalaamu alaikum,

Bro Hanif, in reply to your questions [quote]how can the conversation be muffled... Why can't you simply get a curtain and then talk, or why can't you get a couple of speakers or even use some other forms of comms....[/quote]

the partition is not simply a thin cloth curtain, it is one of those semi-rigid movable partitions and I'm telling the truth about the conversation getting muffled. and with regards to the speakers and microphone, well one thing we seriously lack is money for such equipment.

In the last meeting I left the partition closed, but a couple of sisters actually opened it because they simply could not hear.

I also talked about double standards...we live in a society where we talk to women everyday- at work or at uni.  The lectures at Uni are mixed.  The work environment is mixed.  In the summer time the non-muslim women walk around in next to nothing...and yet when we are at the mosque to discuss Islam (dressed modestly, sitting apart and treating each other with respect i might add), we HAVE to put up this physical barrier between us??  

Bro Hanif, there is such a thing as extremes...we go through it single day when we go from the non-Islamic environment to an Islamic one.  The greater recipie for disaster lies in the non-Islamic environment.  It makes me angry that brothers and sisters don't learn how to communicate with the opposite sex in the Islamic environment and instead learn from the norms of the non-Islamic environment.

We learn from the Quraan of how men and women should communicate- lower their gaze and guard their modesty.  Allahu Alam.  

A single instead of a double-standard is all that I'm trying to set. If the partition was the standard, then we'd all have to walk around with curtains around us so we couldn't see each other... this just don't make sense.

okay I've just read the post by bro Mujaahid and stand corrected about the walking around with curtains.  I really lack a great deal of knowledge about the subject and forgive me if I have said anything wrong.  I've read an article by Shaikh Yusuf Qaradawi on the issue and what i got out of it, was that we should simply lower our gaze and dress modestly.

Re: double standards??
se7en
10/01/01 at 10:56:40
as salaamu alaykum,

There is no consensus that says that purdah is required.  Some scholars do hold that opinion, but as far as I know, Allah a'lam, the majority of scholars say it is *not*.  (I am not referring to keeping a respectful distance between the two sexes but an actual, physical barrier between men and women.)

Again, this is something scholars differ on, so flyboy it's something you should take up with your imam or someone knowledgeable in your community.

Re: double standards??
solehah
10/01/01 at 11:11:04
Salaam

Bro Mujaahid, the content notwithstanding (since I am not going into this discussion), Alhamdulillah I have enjoyed reading your post.  Masya'ALlah, you have displayed that you can write well.

Marha Bro

Wassalam
Re: double standards??
jannah
10/01/01 at 14:04:51
slm,

it's interesting if u think about islamic law there are always *requirements* and then things you can do above the requirements like for example we are required to pray, to fast, to perform hajj. and we are also encouraged to do sunnah prayers, naafilah, fast on mondays and thursdays and to perform umrah. now why is that? why not require all of it, it's all good for us right? that's why we're encouraged to do them.  but the problem is we are human beings and to require all of that upon everyone from the beginning would be too difficult for people. someone who legislates that everyone must pray sunnah, must fast mondays and thursdays is making the deen hard for the people. so we can say a ruler who enforces the requirements is enforcing islam, they do not need to go above and beyond this, because the harm may be greater than the benefit.
something interesting to note is that the prophet [saw] always chose the easiest of two ways for the ppl.

so then the argument comes down to what is required and what is not. *is a physical barrier ie curtain required between the sexes?* now that is a question for the scholars :) it is true that there are many scholars that say it is mandatory and it is true that there are many scholars that say it is not.

so now we're all the way back down to the level of the MSA. what should they do? it comes down to the members. if they all think it's mandatory then by all means put it up. if they all think it's not mandatory then don't. but what if there are some members who think it's just a very good thing and we should do it, ask them to think about it really hard, is it worth it to make this required when there are alot of negatives like alienation of certain ppl, communication, organization--- do the benefits outweigh the harm in enforcing this especially when it's not required?
Re: double standards??
Arsalan
10/01/01 at 17:50:49
[slm]
[quote]the partition is not simply a thin cloth curtain, it is one of those semi-rigid movable partitions and I'm telling the truth about the conversation getting muffled.[/quote][quote]In the last meeting I left the partition closed, but a couple of sisters actually opened it because they simply could not hear.[/quote]flyboy, we have a similar partition in our area.  You are right, there is *no way* that you can hear each other if the partition is closed completely. ˙What you need to do is open it half way (or 1/4 of the way). ˙You still need to sit in front of the partition, and not in front of the opening. ˙This way the sisters will still be invisible to you and you will be invisible to them. ˙However, audibility should increase drastically (insha Allah) because voice can travel through the opening. ˙You will still need to speak loudly, but I think that's something we young men have no problem doing eh? :)

Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: double standards??
BroHanif
10/01/01 at 16:53:17
Brother Ahmed, [slm]

An easier solution to your problem would be as follows,


Items for temporary purdah
a long dark curtain cloth,
couple of net hooks and a strong piece of rope,

remove partion wall,
1) Place hooks at both ends of the wall.
2) Rope is tied in with hooks.
2) Throw the curtain or long piece of cloth over the rope, adjust accordingly.

Bros sit at one end sisters at the other. conversation is clear and hijaab and modesty is maintained.

Total cost of implementing above solution less than $10. Is there enough money in the MSA fund box for a solution like that. ? Maybe everyone could chip in a dollar or two.

[quote]...we live in a society where we talk to women everyday- at work or at uni.  The lectures at Uni are mixed.   In the summer time the non-muslim women walk around in next to nothing...and yet when we are at the mosque to discuss Islam (dressed modestly, sitting apart and treating each other with respect i might add), we HAVE to put up this physical barrier between us??  [/quote]

You put the physical barrier up to attain the pleasure of Allah. To save yourself from his ajaab, to save your eyes from zinah, to save yourself from the sin of the thighs, to save yourself from being thrown into the fire of hell.

Whereas those who are not on true deen commit all sorts of vile and absurd acts. They get married for a couple of days and then end up in divorce, have sexual relations with the in laws, commit zinah and adultery openly without any shame, wear nx to nothing, drink and take all sorts of intoxicants and have an open mind when it comes to relationships.

These are the acts of people who have no control on their nafs, there is hadith which says "until you have no shame do what act that pleases you".

If man can control his base desires s/he can become a friend of Allah, if the nafs performs actions as it desires then man can fall even lower than that dog which raises its hind leg to urinate.

[quote]We learn from the Quraan of how men and women should communicate- lower their gaze and guard their modesty.  [/quote]

And what about when you talk ? your voice should not be soft and alluring that stirs the heart in search of passion and illicit relationship, but it should be stern and firm goes for both bros and sis.

[quote]If the partition was the standard, then we'd all have to walk around with curtains around us so we couldn't see each other... this just don't make sense.[/quote]

Not really, what you do is keep your gaze down and remember Allah in your heart.

Islam is simple, lets not make it complicated nor look for excuses or shortcuts in attaining the happiness of Allah.


Re: double standards??
flyboy_nz
10/01/01 at 18:31:59
[slm]

jazak Allahu khairan for the good nasiha Bro Hanif and Bro Mujaahid your reply really put things into perspective.

Sister se7en and sister Jannah jazak Allahu khairan as well.

I'm thankful that i have such knowledgable brothers and sisters to ask for advice.  Yes Islam is simple and beautiful, but unfortunately the society we live in is not.  The youth that I'm involved with are caught between the two sides..some are close to the Islamic side and some are closer to the non-Islamic side (the state of ignorance). I'm sure that is the case anywhere in the World.

I've been confused about this purdah issue for a long time... i guess a lot of muslims who do not have a great deal of islamic knowledge often question it.  As sister se7en said, there appears to be no consensus on whether it is required.  I go to weddings and functions where there is partition and get really annoyed at the level of noise coming from the womens' side...even when we are praying they're loudly chatting away.  I've also been to gatherings where there isn't partition and there is a much greater respect for each other, far less noise and more of a community/family atmosphere...so naturally my views have been polarised by this.

I wrote more about this...but on second thoughts I think its better if I hold my personal views for fear of causing division and anger between each other.  Allahu Alam.

wa salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
Ahmed
Re: double standards??
Mahmoodah
10/02/01 at 04:21:02
whats MSA??????
i keep hearin abt this, but i've neva figured out wat it is!!!
Re: double standards??
flyboy_nz
10/02/01 at 06:24:30
salaam sis,

yeah i kept hearing it and never knew what it was myself until I read it somewhere.

MSA = Muslim Students Association  
Re: double standards??
Kathy
10/02/01 at 08:46:37
slm

I love the seperation, yet what Ahmed says is true- Eid prayers, in my experiences- in many different mosques. is a nightmare!

Also I am experiencing a new type of problem. When I go to a lecture with my son- he is too old (by opinion) to be on my side, yet too young to be left alone without guidance on the mens' side, as they kick the kids to the back of the room.

This is bad because it is too tempting for him to join the boys in their horseplay.

Also if he did not understand a concept he could ask me.
NS
Re: double standards??
solehah
10/02/01 at 09:17:09
Assalamualaikum wr wb

I was a member of the MSA-equivalent at my university for 3 years.  In the first year of service, the brothers implemented the partition (just the cloth one and not the wooden one).  What happened was a lot of confusion.  Sisters had to pass questions via pieces of paper placed in a box at the side of the room just before the partition starts, and unavoidably most sisters opinions are not heard because with the partitions comes the consciousness of voices as aurat.

In the second year of service, the cloth partition is removed but brothers sit way in front of the room and sisters sit way at the back of the room.  Again, the issue of voice was not resolved.

By the third year, the format of the seating arrangementis such that its L-shaped with two empty seats between the first brother and the first sister. And sisters spoke their minds on issues too.

My one and only bad experience with partition during solat is when I had to pray at a small mosque.  Although there were only 7 men and 2 women (myself and my friend) the imam didn't think us women should pray within the prayer room although we would be waaaayyyy at the back.  We were told to pray outside the designated prayer room but still within the prayer area.  As a result, we couldn't see the imam nor the rest of the jemaah. Since it was dzuhur prayer, the imam's voice is soft and not heard by us. I had to resort to leaning forward and craning my neck to see the imam's movement. I was not khusyuk at all.  I regret the quality of my solat.

As Sis Jannah said, the Prophet always choose the easiest way for his ummah to perform ibadah.  Sometimes I think its us who complicate matters.  Sometimes at the expense of quality of ibadah.  Extremes should be avoided because sometimes extremity gives negative perception of Islam.

Bro Ahmed, assess the dynamics of the MSA meeting group.  If a partition is necessary do it. If not think of a creative way to preserve aurat and yet accommodate all.  Ask around and seek advice. Good luck with your next venture :)

Wallahualam bissawab
Qaradawi on Free-Mixing of Men and Women
Barr
10/08/01 at 04:31:38
Assalamu'alaikum :-)

I know, it's a bit late.. but I thought of this thread when I read this. Hope this helps, inshaAllah.

===================================================================

[color=blue]Qaradawi on Free-Mixing of Men and Women[/color]

Our problem, as I said before and will always say, is that we tend to go to
extremes when dealing with social and intellectual issues. We are rarely
guided to the 'middle' which represent one of the general and most
prominent features of Islamic theology and commandments.
This is strikingly clear in this issue as well as all other issues related
to contemporary Muslim women.

Two opposite types of people have been unfair to women:

1. The Westernized type who want to impose Western traditions, which
include decadence and lack of values - especially religious, and deviation
from normal nature. In addition to staying away from the rightly guided
path, that Allah has sent prophets and holy books to show to the people and
call them to abide by.

They want the Muslim woman to follow the habits of Western women, inch by
inch and foot by foot as was visualized in the hadith of the prophet: "Even
if she enters the lizard's hole she follows her even it was twisted and
narrow and smelled bad." Nevertheless, if the Western woman enters it, the
Muslim woman follows suit. Or in other word, a new kind of amicability that
some tried to propagate that was known as "Amicability of the lizard's hole".

Those people are not aware of what the Western woman complains of today and
the negative repercussions that the 'open' mixing of sexes has brought upon
her, upon men, the family and the whole society. They shut their ears to
the screams of dissatisfaction that filled the horizons of the Western
world, as well as the screams of the scientists and literary men, and the
fears of intellectuals and the reformists of the whole civilization that
was affected as a result of canceling all restrictions on the mixing of sexes.

Those people also forget that every nation has its personality that is
formed by its beliefs and visualized it to the universe, life, existence
and the God of existence, as well as its values, heritage and customs. It
is not right for a society to copy another one.

2. The second half are those who force other traditions on women but they
are the traditions of the East not the West. Those traditions are given a
religious color. Those people sho made those claims made them from their
sides; based on something that they understood, or a view that they
initiated or preferred because it suits their view on women and their
disrespect for her, her religion, her brains or her behavior.
Nevertheless, it is no more than the viewpoint of a human who can make
mistakes due to the effect of time or place on him, the effect of his
sheikhs and his school. He is opposed by other views that basing their
opinions on what is Sahiih in the Glorious Quran, and in the wisdom of the
Noble prophet and the stands of the companions.

I would like to state that the word 'mixing' in the area of the
relationship between men and women is a new word that has entered into our
Muslim dictionary. It was never known to our long heritage for the past
centuries, and was not known except in this period. Perhaps it was a
translation of a 'foreign' word that carries this meaning. Its implication
is not a comfortable one to the senses of a Muslim person.

It would have been better to use the words meeting, gathering, or women's
participation with men or something of the sort.

In any case, Islam does not issue a general ruling on this matter. Islam
looks at it in the light of the objectives behind it or the benefits gained
as well as possible harms and in what form it takes place and the
conditions that should be met, etc.

The best guidance is that of Muhammad (PBUH) and that of the rightly guided
caliphs and companions.

The onlooker would find that women were not imprisoned nor kept apart as
has happened in the ages of the backwardness of Muslims.

Women used to attend the Jamaa (congregational) prayers and the Friday
prayers in the Mosque of the Prophet. The prophet encouraged them to take
their places in the rows behind the men. The further they could stand the
better, as he feared that something would show of men's bodies, for most of
them did not know shorts/trousers. There was no separation between men and
women of cement, wood, cloth or anything else.

At the beginning men and women used the same door. When this caused
crowding on entry and exit the prophet said: "If you could keep this door
for women." They made that door for women and it became known up until
today as the door of women.

Women at the time of the prophet attended the Jumaah prayers and listened
to the speech. One of them memorized Surat 'Qaaf' from the prophet's own
voice as a result of hearing him say it from the Friday minbar.

Women also attended the prayers of the two feasts and participated in this
big Islamic festival that included the young and old, men and women, out in
the open, praising God out loud.

Muslim narrated: (Om Attiyah said: "We were all ordered to go out on the
two feasts: the women who never leave home and the virgins.)
In a story she said: "The prophet PBUH ordered us to go out in the Fetr and
Adha - those who attained puberty, those who had their periods, those who
were confined to their quarters. As for women who have their period, they
do not pray but attend the event and the preaching. I said: "O Prophet! One
of us might not have a jilbaab (long dress)". He said: "Let her sister give
her a dress of her own."

This is a Sunnah that Muslims have killed in some or all countries except
what some youth did lately during the Islamic awakening. They brought to
life what died years ago such as spending the last 10 days of Ramadan in
seclusion and the Sunnah of having women attend the prayers of the feast.

Women attended lessons of knowledge, given by the prophet, with men. They
asked about issues related to their religion that many women today would be
embarrassed to ask. Aisha praised the Ansaari women saying that the shyness
did not stop them from understanding their religion. They asked about the
major ritual impurity, sexual maturity, washing, the period, sexual
maturity as well as other such things.

It was not enough for women to attend. They wanted the prophet to
themselves and asked him to make one day for them where men would not
outnumber them. So the prophet dedicated a day for them and gave them
wisdom and commandments.

Women's actions went further and they participated in the war effort to
provide services for the army and the fighters in the ways that they are
capable of and are good at: nursing, first aid, caring for the injured and
wounded, in addition to other services such as cooking, giving water and
preparing what the fighters would need of civil matters.

Om Atiyya said: "I took part with the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) in seven
battles. I would stay behind in the camp of men, cook their food, treat the
wounded and nurse the sick." - narrated by Muslim.

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas: ("Aisha and Om Salim had their
sleeves up one day and they were carrying water flasks on their backs that
they then gave people to drink. Then, they went back and filled them".) The
presence of Aisha here, and she was under twenty, answers the claims of
those who said that participating in campaigns and battles was confined to
elderly women. That is not true. What would elderly women be able to do in
situations that need physical and psychological ability combined?

Imaam Ahmed narrated: "Six women from the believers were with the army that
was putting Khaybar under siege. They were handling arrows, giving water,
taking care of the wounded, weaved and worked for the sake of God." The
prophet gave them a share of the booty.

It is true that the women of some of the companions participated in
military campaigns and Islamic battles by carrying weapons, when they had
the chance. It is well known what Om Umara; the relative by marriage of Ben
Ka3b did on the day of Uhud. The prophet said about her: "Her status is
better than that of such and such a person."

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas, her son: (Om Selim also carried a
dagger on Hunayn that she used to stab the stomach of anyone who came near
her. Her husband Talhah saw her and said: O prophet! This is Om Selim with
a dagger. So the prophet asked her: "What is this dagger?" She said: I took
it so that if any of the disbelievers came near me I would stab his
stomach. The prophet laughed.") Narrated by Muslim, number 1809.

Al-Bukhari in his Sahiih has a chapter on the campaigns of women and their
fighting.

The ambition of Muslim women at the time of the prophet and his companions
- did not stop at participating in campaigns in nearby battles that were
close to Arab land such as Khobayr and Honayn. It went further than that
into aspiring to take to the sea and participating in opening far away
lands to convey the message of Islam.

In the Sahiih of Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Anas: (The
prophet was at Om Haram Ben MalHan, the aunt of Anas, one day. Then he woke
up laughingly so she asked him: O prophet what is making you laugh? He
said: "People from my nation asked me to go on military campaigns for the
sake of Allah, riding the sea, kings on beds or like kings on beds." So she
said: O prophet! Pray that I be one of them. He prayed for her. Om Haram
rode the sea during the time of Othman with her husband Ibaadah Ben
Al-Samit to Cyprus. She fell off her camel. She died and was buried there
according to the narration of the people of sirah and history.)

In the social life women participated in calling for good things, ordering
that good deeds be done and forbidding bad deeds as Allah Almighty said:
(The Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin
what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers,
practice regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will
Allah pour His Mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.) (At-Tawbah:71)

Another famous incident related to the response that a woman gave to Omar
in a Mosque in the case of Al-Mahwar. Omar changed his opinion and accepted
hers openly saying: "The woman was right and Omar was wrong.". Ibn Kathir
mentioned it in the Tafsiir of Surat An-Nisaa2 and said that its isnaad was
jayyid.

Omar had appointed, during his caliphate, Ash-Shafaa2 Ben Abdullah
Al-Adawaiyyah as 'mu7tasibah' or controller of prices and supervisor of
trade honesty over the market. The one who looks deeply in the Quran and
how it talks about women in the different ages and in the life of the
messengers and the prophet does not feel this iron curtain that people have
put between men and women.

We find that Moses - while he was at the peak of his youth and strength -
talking to the two girls, the daughters of the old Sheikh. He asked them
questions and they answered without being guilty or embarrassed. He helped
them gallantly. One of them goes to him later, sent by her father, to
invite him to go with her to her father. Then one of them suggests to her
father that he make use of him because of what she saw in him of strength
and honesty.

Let us read what came in Surat Al-Qasaas (verses 23-26): (And when he
arrived at the watering (place) in Madyan, he found there a group of men
watering (their flocks), and besides them he found two women who were
keeping back (their flocks). He said: "What is the matter with you?" They
said: "We cannot water (out flocks) until the shepherds take back (their
flocks): and our father is a very old man."

So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade,
and said: "O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou
dost send me!"

Afterwards one of the (damsels) came (back) to him, walking bashfully. She
said: "My father invites thee that he may reward thee for having watered
(our flocks) for us." So when he came to him and narrated the story, he
said: "Fear thou not: (well) hast thou escaped from unjust people."
Said one of the (damsels): "O my (dear) father! engage him on wages: truly
the best of men for thee to employ is the (man) who is strong and trusty.")

In Mariam's case, we find that Zakariya used to enter her 'miHraab' and ask
her about the 'rizk' he found there. (Al-Imraaan: 37)
(Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and
beauty; to the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he
entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He
said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From Allah: for
Allah provides sustenance to whom He pleases, without measure.")

In the story of Queen of Saba', we find her gathering her people to consult
them on the issue of Suleiman (An-Naml 32-34)
(She said: "Ye chiefs! advise me in (this) my affair: no affair have I
decided except in your presence."They said: "We are endued with strength,
and given to vehement war: but the command is with thee; so consider what
thou wilt command."

She said: "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the
noblest of its people its meanest; thus do they behave.)

It cannot be said: this is the legislation of those before us so we do not
need it. The Quran did not mention this to us except to let the rightly
guided ones gain guidance from and remember its wisdom.

It is therefore true to say: the legislation before us as mentioned in the
Quran and the Sunnah is a legislation for us as long as it had not been
copied to our legislation. God Almighty said to his prophet: (Al-An3aam: 90)
(Those were the (prophets) who received Allah's guidance: copy the guidance
they received; say: "No reward for this do I ask of you: this is no less
than a Message for the nations.")

Keeping a woman at home, between its four walls and not letting her out was
considered in the Quran - in one of its sates of legislation before the
famous verse of punishment on adultery - as a severe punishment to Muslim
women who committed adultery. Allah Almighty said in Surat An-Nisaa': 15)
(If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four
(reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify,
confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them
some (other) way.)

Later, Allah allowed women to go their way when the legislation on adultery
was revealed which is the whipping that was mentioned in the Quran for
those who are not sheltered (married) and the stoning to those who are
sheltered.

So how can the logic of keeping respectable and honorable Muslim woman at
home be in line with the logic of the Quran and Islam?! It is as if we will
punish her an everlasting punishment when she has not committed a sin.
NS
Re: double standards??
flyboy_nz
10/08/01 at 04:40:49
salaam,

jazak Allahu khairan Sister Barr, I have read the article and done some further research on it.  I guess its never easy to know which road to take when there are two roads and both look reasonable.  Allahu Alam!  I guess I'll just forge my own path down the middle at this stage :)

wasalaam,
Ahmed
Re: double standards??
Anonymous
10/13/01 at 22:09:55
Salams,
we had a similar problem recently in our msa. Everyone had different
opinions as to whether it was double standards or not. Those who opposed
segregation consulted local imams, and Alhumdulilah, everything is now
sorted. We decided to implement segregation by having limited number of
mixed meetings (just at the start and at the end of the year). The
sisters on the committee have seperate meetings, then just type up the
notes and send them through email, and the brothers do the same.  It has
worked so far i think, so really its just a little bit more added effort.
Also a negative point in mixed meetings is that the sisters dont
usually get to discuss what affects sisters at uni, and often feel too
intimidated to speak with more bros in the committee. This way, the sisters
have organised sooo much Alhumdulilah, and dont feel hindered in telling
each other their real opinions!
Wasalam
Re: double standards??
flyboy_nz
10/14/01 at 15:27:45
[slm]

that is a really good idea, and inshaAllah that is the direction in which the club will progress.  At the moment the number of bros and sisters are pretty low ~20.  I'm hoping numbers will increase next year and the members will have more time to dedicate to the club and get more active.  I've asked the sisters to choose a representative/leader and as yet they haven't replied.  Once we have a sisters leader in place we can then make moves to set up the sisters group and the brothers group and combine activities only where necessary as in campus-wide dawah and so on.

wasalaam,
Ahmed


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