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question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
se7en
10/29/01 at 20:58:26
as salaamu alaykum, paging brother assing :) ------- Did you know there is some debate as to if hadith which come by mutawatir means (4+ independent isnad) are more authentic than ahad-sahih hadith?  Well I'm taking a class on the authority of the sunnah and they say ahad-sahih hadith are no less definitive then mutawatir. Have you heard this before? Oh, and I'm doing a paper on Ilm al-rijal as it applies to the sahabas transimision of hadith. Basically I'm trying to get a handle on how the process of evaluating the honesty and memory of the companions differs from that used for non-sahabas.  I'm having trouble finding any sources (in english).  Do you know of any books?

Re: question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
assing
10/31/01 at 07:55:17
as salaamu alaykum, Wa alaykum as salaam "Did you know there is some debate as to if hadith which come by mutawatir means (4+ independent isnad) are more authentic than ahad-sahih hadith?  Well I'm taking a class on the authority of the sunnah and they say ahad-sahih hadith are no less definitive then mutawatir. Have you heard this before?" Bismillah, when i first saw this question i did not know where to start, for this is a very detailed topic indeed wherein there is much debate and differences regarding this topic. However, mustaeenan billah, i say the issue you mentioned about the muttawatir and ahad and the arguments regarding what constituites and ahad ahadeeth and does it equal to "ilm al yaqeeni", definite knowledge like mutawaqtir ahadeeth, or does equate "ilm ad dhani" or a certain amount of knowledge {i don't know how you guys transalte it in the class), are classical debates of the past scholars of fiqh and hadeeth.  First of all i would say that from the onset this may seem like purely a hadeeth issue, but with further investigation, as you will realise inshallah, it is actually an issue of hadeeth combined with that of usul'ul fiqh and aqeedah.  Firstly, regarding what constituites mutawatir is a debate up to this day has not been resovled between the scholars of hadeeth. Some say 3 constituites mutawatir based on the fact that any group consisting of more than 3 is a jaamah, some say some say 7, some say 10, some say 70 using as qiyas that Musa chose 70 of his best companions to go with him up to the mountain, some even say 100. Thus, you see all this different opinions each conflicting the other, but the thing they have in common is they all do not have any concrete dalel with which to support their claim. So, the strongest opinion regaring this issue would be that of shaikh al islam ibn Tayimiyyah where he said that arriving at the conclusion that a hadeeth is something "nisbee" relative, he said it is like eating food: if someone ask you by how many spoonful rice do you get full, it will be almost impossible to say, but if you see food you know what quantity of that food you can eat to get full, but to number it by morsels is another matter. Likewise with what is mutawatir and ahad, for one scholar a hadeeth may be mutawatir due to the resources available to him {books, etc...} but for another it will be considered ahad due to what he has.  Then there are two types of mutawatir: 1.Mutawatir "bi lafdh" i.e. by wording such as the hadeeth:  "Whoever ascribes to me that which I did not say, will surely have to occupy his seat in the fire", which according to shaikh Nasirdeen Al Albani checking has been transmitted by more than 100 sahabahs! and 2. Mutawatir "bi ma'na" i.e. by meaning, like hadeeth about the pillars of islam such as salah, sawm, hajj, ect..... Now, the second question regarding this topic as you inquired about: are "mutawatir means (4+ independent isnad) are more authentic than ahad-sahih hadith?" One thing you must keep in mind is that when the scholars of hadeeth first came with these catergorization of ahadeeth into mutawatir and ahad, then from ahad, saheeh and the different types of saheeh, then to daef all the way to mawdoo, there purose was the catergorize this ilm to facilitate the authentification of hadeeth, just as the usooliyeen {scholars of usul ul fiqh} did when they said this is wajib, haram, mustahab, mubah, etc.... However, other scholars {especially from amongst the fuqaha were we influenced by the mu'tazilah, Jahmiyyah, the murjiah and ilm al kalaam - greek logic and rhetoric} al came after them and used this catergorization of ahadeeth in an innovative manner to reject authentic ahadeeth which were ahad, {claiming that they are not mutawatir and it does not mean definite knowledge} that did not a agree with their desires, eventhough it may seem like they have a valid argument. Hence, the reason who if you read the books of aqeedah such as: aqeedah At Tahawi, aqeedatul Wasatiyyah, Usul As Sunnah by imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Itiqaad ahlul sunnah wa al jammah by Al Lilaka'i, and many books dealing with aqeedah you will always notice that they always mention that it is from the aqeedah of the people of the sunnah to believe in the punishement of the grave, the coming of Eesa, the Hawd, the intercession of the messenger {saw}, etc........., because not anly were they conveying to the muslim what the aqeedah should be, but also refuting groups such as the mutazilah who deny ahadeeth about the punishement of the grave and so forth claiming that they are ahad therefore it is not definite knowledge that we should believe in. Also to show you how  contradictory they are, they say we accept ahad ahadeeth in fiqh, even weak ones but not in aqeedah?! Using this catergorization as a means to judge whether you accept a hadeeth or not, is a bidah for 2 reason: 1. If we apply this rule to our deen we will be left with almost nothing to practice or believe in, for most of the hadeeth we know and apply are ahad. 2. This clearly is against the way of the salaf about which Allah says: "And whosoever contradicts the Messenger, after receiving guidance, and follows other than the path of the Believers, we will leave him in the path which he has chosen and cast him into Hell - what an evil destination." [Sooratun-Nisaa’ 4:115] And this why you find imam Al bukhari has a chapter at the end of his book entitled: "Akbaar al ahaad", translated as  "Accepting Information Given by a Truthful Person", meaning that once a hadeeth or khbar is authentic one must accept it. Hence, he mentioned in the chapter hadeeth like Bilal calling the adhan, the one sahabah informing the people of masjid Quba that the direction of the qibla had changed, the messenger (saw) sending one sahabahs to invite the kings and rulers to islam, or sending the sahabahs to teach other people about islam like what took place when he (saw) sent Muadh ibn Jabal and Ali to Yemen, and many more similar incidents like these, all to show that the way of the salaf is to accept a hadeeth once it has been declared authentic regardless of the number of people narrating it. As for the second part of your question:   "Oh, and I'm doing a paper on Ilm al-rijal as it applies to the sahabas transimision of hadith. Basically I'm trying to get a handle on how the process of evaluating the honesty and memory of the companions differs from that used for non-sahabas.  I'm having trouble finding any sources (in english).  o you know of any books?" There tends to be not much debate about adaalah (honesty and memory) of sahabahs amongst the ulama of hadeeth, because the scholars of hadeeth say that  their adaalah is established by the Quran {by all ayats praising the sahabahs which are many}, the sunnah and the ijma of the ulama, so this will save you some time inshallah researching much into this topic. However, all those after them from the tabieen, then those are the ones whose honesty, memory, etc... will be up for scrutiny.    As for books about this topic i am not aware of any in english except some brief stuff  from the MSA of USC web page. I hope this helps and Allah knows best
NS

Re: question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
se7en
11/01/01 at 00:27:29
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakatuh, Awesome, jazakam Allahu khayran Brother Assing :)   I don't think the debate over the definition of mutuwattir was even brought up in the class I attended..  (I always thought it was four and above) Maybe I was asleep that day :)   InshaAllah I'll pass along the info.. much appreciated bro :) wasalaamu alaykum.

Re: question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
se7en
12/22/01 at 00:55:02
as salaamu alaykum, Alhamdulillah, the brother I was asking these questions for just completed his paper on the position of the sahaba in transmission of the sunnah.  If you're interested in reading it, just send me a msg and I'll hook ya up inshaAllah :) wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah

Re: question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
bhaloo
12/22/01 at 01:14:06
slm Ok, go ahead.

Re: question on mutawatir, english books on 'ilm al rijaal
se7en
12/22/01 at 01:36:21
I meant *private* message foolio!   I don't think he'd like for his work to be posted publicly. Hehe.. salaam
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