help with my brothers involvement w/woman

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help with my brothers involvement w/woman
Anonymous
11/08/01 at 14:17:30
as salaam alaykum

I am very concerned about my brother and his involvemnet with another
woman.  About a month ago, this woman emailed him about an article he
wrote on a web page, asking him questions about it.  She started writing
to him every day, sometimes several times in a day, telling him that
she would like to come to his country to study but that she wouldn't have
her fathers permission to do that and she would run away.  My brother
is usually a very rational man, but now he is acting out of character,
he asked her to marry him, so she wouldn't have to run away(though he
felt very strongly about her deen too). He made istikara about this and
got back a possitive answer, she has not done it yet.  She has not told
him yes, instead she writes to him 3 or 4 tims a day, ending her
sentences with "yours", and she even wrote him a poem!  Since last week they
have IM'd several times for up to 8hrs at a time!!!  I do not have a
problem so much with this sister personally, for she seems to be a very
good Muslimah, I have even wrote with her a few times.  I am just
concerned that this is getting carried away and bordering on haraam.  I don't
want to see my brother get hurt by her if she decides not to marry him
and as much as they talk right now I know that will happen.  
I would like to hear others opinion about this.  Does it seem like they
are going to far?  What should my brother do?  (they are both in their
20's also)
Thanxs.
w/s
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
Anik
11/08/01 at 14:39:21
asalaamu alaikum,

Your brother is head over heels it seems

It is important here that as his brother you discern what his position in this is, as well as his emotional involvement.

The fact that he has asked this girl to marry him (how well do they know each other?) is an instant sign of two things: 1) his attachment 2) his haste

Perhaps this electronic communication is a way of playing out fantasies...

a dream of meeting a mysterious girl who is in your religion (hence the guilt of marriage is not there), a connection of opinion (she responded to his article), a willingness from both sides to so quickly jump to feelings that seemed parked waiting to be released rather than developed (you mentioned one month)

It is all too good to your, our dear brother.

My opinion is, whatever you do, DON'T LECTURE HIM, AND DON'T COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN HIS ACTIONS

you probably don't, but make sure you play on his side (even if you don't feel supportive of this), lest he feel abandoned and does something even more irrational

Often, in times of "swept-awayedness", we don't listen to the insturction that comes vehemently at us...

we see force of any kind, even force of opinion, as a detriment to our desires...

thus, it makes for a hastier decision, a sort of flight into stability, a settle of the issue to seem composed to the people who criticize you

This makes for a decision that is quick, to the point, without proper arrangemnts, fear of repercussions, often a spike of excitment and then after, a dip of real-world pace of life (the situiation doesn't seem AS great).

Play on his mind,

rather, let him play on his own mind (many people will disagree with me here)...

guide him, lend an ear always

But if he hears criticism, the doubts which he has in his own mind,

and he seems to be a rational adult,

his own inhibitiopns will not be given time to develop

he will shy away from appealing to his own logic and rationale like a rabbit in a cage.

Force the rabbit to eat, and it cowers away in fear of it's interests being carried away

Leave a carrot at the mouth of the cage door, and slowly it comes out to realize it's surroundings

Your brother will (sorry for generalizing) seem very sure, he will feel that he KNOWS the right path

two things: 1) involving elders at an early stage 2) a highly religious figure to intervene

These two things may intimidate him, and he may get defensive, same with the girl

Encourage the pateinece

Read verses of the Qu'ran about Sabr, but let him reflect on his own, try to encourage hanging around with brothers who are pious as an example,

Let his own doubt play into the forefront and let him convince himself

One month's time span, by any measure I believe, is too short.

There is a lot of potential for hurt.

Let him realize that Allah Subhana sometimes works in ways we don't understand...

Istikhara's response doesn't have to be carrie dout right away, Allah Subhana loves As-Sabirun.

How far away does the girl live?

Look up similar stories and statistics to slip in, but once he feels challenged, he feels like he has to beat it, at least if he is thinking like i perciece him to be thinking.

I don't mean to be so negative, but the more you can encourage time and development of thought rather than a jump to decision, the better off your brother will be in how this turns out (may Allah Subhana protect him form harm, and the sister).

As well, ask the girl what she feels, what her inhibitions are, what the CONSEQUENCES are, and let her boil over them.

I'm no expert, but if I heard more about the situation I will give you more OPINION. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
kiwi25
11/08/01 at 15:02:22
salam,

just to point out that if they do decide to get married,and she prays istikhara and gets a good decision and all,

the marriage will only be valid if her wali (male relative such as father, brother, uncle, NOT cousin) agress to it and that wont be happening if she plans on running away and getting married.

seh may want to tell her father that she had a positive sign (if she does end up getting one) but he may not accept of teh idea that theyve met onlien etc.....

as his brother, u need to be by his side and keep remiding him of what islam says of issues like this.  

another thing is that you seemed agaisnt him talking online with women at all but you also have done it yourself?

wasalam,
nouha:)
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
Kashif
11/08/01 at 18:40:44
Sr. nouha, i think you should put in bold your second sentence.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
bashar
11/09/01 at 15:53:39
as salaam alaykum

Thanxs to everyone who offered advice.  It will be very helpful.  To the person who asked why I spoke with the sister, and was not happy with my brother doing so, i am a girl.  
They im'd again yesterday, all day while he was working, and he discussed her having a wali, and then she said that it will be her brother (but he does not know this yet), but my brother wants to ask her father, he DOES feel it is very important.  Also, I did not mean to make it seem that out parents don't know, they do, but they would rather get to know her parents before he asked such a question.  She and her brother are supposed to be coming to our country in six months and she will then decide if she wants to marry him or not, she says if she says yes then it will be a whole year and a half before they are married, since she needs to finish school.  
One of the main reasons that she has not informed her family about my brother is because she is sayidah (sp?) and my brother is not.  Her father won't allow her to marry a non sayid, she knows because others have asked and he always says this. That is the main reason there is not a wali involoved right now.  Also, she lives in SaudiArabia and my brother in North America, so this is another difficulty. Many of my friends do not think that she will marry him and that she is just playing internet games, especially since she won't say yes until she see's him in person.  I am really worried for my brothers heart and sanity, I don't think that them writing all the time is very good for him.  One day goes by and she doesn't write and he is depressed.  the only marriages that i have ever known the parents meet adn discuss their children and eventually have the children talk in the same room with them there for a while, theythen decide if they want to get married.  I don't know about this with my brother, the whole thing seems to be in limbo. Is this normal?  Waiting so long for a proposal answer?  
If I have anymore news I will let you know. Thanxs.
w/s
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
Anik
11/10/01 at 05:08:22
asalaammu alaikum,

actually Br. Kashif, a moulana told me that marriage can take place in the Hanafi madhab without consent from the girl's Wali as long as they knew her intention...

perhaps it is a difference of opinion. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
Kashif
assalaamu alaikum

The Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said "la nikah illa bi-wali" [There is no nikah without a wali]. The following excerpt from fatwa #2127 fom islam-qa.com shows the order in which a woman has a wali, and a brother is a long way down the list.

------------------------
The fuqahaa’ put possible walees in a certain order, and a walee who is more closely-related should not be ignored unless there is no such person or the relatives do not meet the specified conditions. A woman’s walee is her father, then whoever her father may have appointed before his death, then her paternal grandfather or great-grandfather, then her son, then her grandfathers sons or grandsons,
then her brother through both parents (full brother), then her brother through her father, then the sons of her brother through both parents, then the sons of her brother through her father, then her uncle (her father’s brother through both parents), then her father’s brother through the father, then the sons of her father’s brother though both parents, then the sons of her father’s brother through the father, then whoever is more closely related, and so on – as is the case with inheritance. The Muslim leader (or his deputy, such as a qaadi or judge) is the walee for any woman who does not have a walee of her own.


Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
bhaloo
11/10/01 at 08:32:04
slm

[quote]
actually Br. Kashif, a moulana told me that marriage can take place in the Hanafi madhab without consent from the girl's Wali as long as they knew her intention...[/quote]

You are correct brother.  However, 3 of the 4 schools of thought (the majority of the schools of thought) say the marriage is invalid, however the hanafi school allows for it under some conditions.  The details of this can be found in Al-Hedeya (english translation by Charles Hamilton).
Re: help with my brothers involvement w/woman
SuperHiMY
11/17/01 at 22:22:05



         What gets me is,

         I look at those 5ive stars underneath

         the "Anonymous" username

         and I see "Madina Moderator".

       
         :-O



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