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Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Anonymous
11/13/01 at 13:16:05
As-Salaamu-Alaikum, My fellow sisters I need some clear and sound advice.  I met this muslim brother online.  We have been emailing for about two months now.   Really respectable brother.  I have spoken with him on the phone twice.   In the conversation we both express how we're trying to grow in our deen.  Excellent islamic behavior.  Ok, you're wondering what the problem is?  Well he finally sent his picture after 2 months.  This sounds like a very mean thing to say, and I feel awful.  But I can't get over that I am not physically attracted to this brother.  I would like to discontinue our ties, and move on.  But there is an inner feeling telling me that I am wrong.  His faith in Allah is the first thing that matters.   But I'm also thinking of the fact that I'm only 20, and have plenty more opportunities.  Or do I?  Sisters I am really struggling with this one.   Please respond and endow me with your guidance and perspectives.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Marcie
11/13/01 at 18:39:48
As salamu alaykum Sister, There is more to beauty than meets the eye.  Outer beauty is something that fades with the years.  That said have you prayed istikhaarah?  I can't tell you what to do because I'm not in your shoes, and you need to listen to what your heart and head tell you is best for you.  A brother who is really is Islamic is worth his weight in gold and there really aren't that many out there.  Good looks won't get you that far in the day to day struggle of marriage.  Insha'Allah you will do what is best for you. As salamu alaykum Marcie

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
NewJehad
11/14/01 at 06:29:29
Sister, its up to you! If you think his ugly and you don’t want to be with some one who you find physically repugnant just say no. Tell him the truth. Just say it in a nice way. I mean don’t tell him “I can’t marry you cause you are very ugly”, but say some thing that means the same using nicer words. Just don’t mess him about. I mean if you are not interested in him, don’t tell him you may be interested. Don’t worry about offending him, cause he might find some one else who is a lot better then you and inshallah he would be a lot happier. And don’t be scared about wanting some one who is good looking, some of us are also good on the inside. I think it is very presumptuous when people marry people they don’t want to marry because of political correctness. It might mess up both peoples lives. Speaking as a male, if some one found me ugly but married me cause she felt that she was obliged to. That would make me want to crawl under a rock and never ever come out again. Let the guy have some self-respect.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
MuslimaKanadiyya
11/14/01 at 13:14:07
slm, [quote] And don’t be scared about wanting some one who is good looking, [color=red]some of us [/color]are also good on the inside. [/quote] Hmm, Br. Jehad -- what are you implying here? ;) I do agree with Jehad though -- If you are absolutely not interested in marrying him, turn him down nicely.  Just please don't tell him it is because you find him completely unattractive.  That would be unnecessarily mean. [quote]But there is an inner feeling telling me  that I am wrong.[/quote] Ask yourself why you think that you are wrong.  Is it political correctness? or is it that you are attracted to him in another way?  If you do like him,  please do try to see him in person before deciding.  Photographs rarely allow you to get a glimpse at the true nature of a person.  Sometimes a person can be unattractive in a photo, but absolutely beautiful in person, not because the photo misrepresents him/her, but because it doesn't allow you to see the way he/she conducts himself (i.e. posture, grace, smile, demeanour, etc.). If someone were to judge me based on some of the photographs in my parents' album....  I'd never get married. :D wlm, Leslie

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
mujaahid
11/14/01 at 13:27:29
Assalaamu-alikum Anonymous sister. As A bro i feel i gota give my take on this. First of all do NOT follow your head in matters of marriage. I know everyone says "use your head, not your heart blah blah" but i dont agree one bit, not a BIT. Often your head can twist something, even perversely to allow something to become acceptable to you. However with your heart, that aint so easy. You cannot trick your heart in any way. You head is like a clever thing, a bit like a politiican, it can make you believe anything. Your heart is where your true feelings lies. If your heart is pulling you towards this bro, then make something of it. You head may be saying "he's ugly, dont go for him, their are plenty of others out thier", but your heart is saying "it was his personality which got your attention, it was that which kept you in contact. so why now do looks push you away". After all sis, if you cover the face, most men below the face look pretty similar :) HANIA!! HANIA HANIA HANIA WHAT IS THIS? A RATING CHART YOU HAVE MADE FOR US POOR BRO's? "1) good iman  25% 2) good personality  25% 3) good job  25% 4) good looks  25%" Right, now i wanna know what you mean. 1) Good Iman 25%? You gota be joking right? Good Iman should come close to 80%. 2) Good personality? Now what the hell do you mean by "Personality"? EVERYONES personalities are different. Some are Loud, some are quite, some are outgoing, some are shy. So what DO you think is an attractive personality? Is thier ONE type of personality you would go for? Is one type more attarctive than another? If so how? 3) GOOD JOB??? Hania come on sis, a job is a job, whether your earning 9'000 a year, or 40'000 a year, money CANNOT, and WILL NOT  buy happiness. In fact the more money you have, the more miserable you are likely to be! 4) NOW Looks? SPOT ON GIRL. 25% SHOULD be on looks. 25 is nowt! Looks are nothing if the guy is scum. Now Hania here is the type of mAn i would WANT A muslim sister to marry (using your ratings system: 1)Good Iman 80% 2) Good personality? NO. Islaamic personality, FULL STOP. 3) gOOD jOB? Sorry but A job, full time and stable. Whether its in a car factory, in an office, in a warehouse or in a management office, it dont matter. As long as he has a steady income to feed you, the kids and to have a home is all that matters. Why? Because i said so....err....i mean because you should spend most of your time for islaam, not out looking for expensive cars, or boasting to your relatives about how rich your husband is. 4) Looks? Well that depends on the women.To Some women looks are nothing, to others look are important. So its only right you go for someone your attracted to. Check please :)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Nazia
11/14/01 at 14:14:21
slm, First of all..I caught the SAME line in Br.jehad's post! hahaha. Anyhow, I'm not sure why no one brought this up--but I think regardless of what you decide, carrying on an online "relationship" no matter how innocent can potentially lead to trouble--especially once feelings of interest have been expressed.  Anyways, I'm not saying that you're doing something haram, because I obviously have no idea what you are or are not doing :)  But I do think that the nature of online communication is inherently dangerous.  Therefore, an easy out, if you decide to take one, could be that you feel that perhaps talking online/on the phone is HURTING your deen instead of uplifiting it like you had initially set out to do. :)  I don't know if thats true or not, but it sounds like a respectable answer. :) At the same time, if you have found a brother that seems to have many of the qualities you are looking for, I still say keep the emotional attachment to a minimum, and I think the only way that would happen is through less communication.  Because think about it.  Your communication with the bro is remote.  You're not seeing him, and for the most part you're not hearing him.  Therefore you're detaching yourself from the part about him that is unattractive to you.  So your emotional level grows, his interest in you grows, and then when you see his picture again--you're back to square one, but now he's totally into you.  You know? I don't know.  But definitely don't lead the brother on.  I think its totally cool to just take your time and think about it.  I know its hard, and I can relate with a somewhat similar situation, so I know how you feel.  Its a tough spot to be in, and I hope Allah (SWT) guides you in the direction that is best for you, for your family, and for your future.  Ameen :) Take Care, Best of luck, Wassalam, Nazia

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Kathy
11/16/01 at 21:00:20
slm opps- I stand corrected An ex- egger.....

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Barr
11/14/01 at 23:31:43
Assalamu'alaikum :-) And as I recall, Sister Hania is looking for a husband ;) (hee hee) ;-D *runs away* Ok, back to the main discussion. A lot of good points have been brought up. I'd agree with Br mujaahid for you to follow your heart. But the heart decides based on consultation with the aql (mind) and nafs and of course, guidance from Allah. If you decide to make istikharah, you might want to consider stopping communication for a while. InshaAllah, for more objectivity. You may tell him smt like this "Akhi, I'm not sure how to proceed with this, and I'd be more comfortable after consultation with Allah. I hope you understand. InshaALlah, I think both of us would want a blessed union. Perhaps, we should give each other some time out to think?" Take one step at a time... and take all the time you want to think and analyse, what you feel and what you want. Do not feel rushed... to make a decision, and to marry itself. If this does proceed to you meeting him, be clear to him if you have not made a concrete decision yet to marry him... but you're doing this in view of marriage to him. Have an agreement on that so that each other are aware of where each other is from. InshaAllah, this would help protect each other's expectations and hearts. [quote]You're not seeing him, and for the most part you're not hearing him.  Therefore you're detaching yourself from the part about him that is unattractive to you.  So your emotional level grows, his interest in you grows, and then when you see his picture again--you're back to square one, but now he's totally into you.  You know? [/quote] Ditto. Sometimes, its too easy to fall in love through the net. But meeting a person in-person is incomparable to looking at photographs. You getta feel of a person's aura. So... he might just surprise, you, inshaAllah :) Take care, ukhti May our decisions always be based on Allah's guidance. wassalam :-)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
NewJehad
11/15/01 at 05:21:11
I disagree with obeying your heart or your mind. I say listen to your ummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
M.F.
11/15/01 at 06:00:38
Assalamu alaikum, Someone suggested that you pray Istikhara.  That's sound advice. After that, if you feel that you just can't go on with it, cut the relationship off by cutting down on your communications and making them shorter and scarcer till it's finished.  Like you said, you're only 20 and there's probably other opportunities insha Allah.   But if you do feel like it could go somewhere (I mean marriage) and you feel that the good qualities that the brother has outweigh the bad, and that this might be the best opportunity you may have, then start taking steps towards making things official. However, let me give you some sisterly advice that'll make you roll your eyes but still, hear me out :) :  don't judge someone only by what he's told you on the phone/chat/email.  There's no way of knowing what the person is really like until you  see him interact with friends, family, you (in person), people in the masjid, other sisters etc.  If a lot of people like him, they're probably right, but if a lot of people don't like him...they're probably right.  You see what I'm saying? The other piece of sisterly advice: don't get guilt-tripped into anything that you feel is wrong for you!  Like contiuing a relationship you know deep inside isn't going anywhere, or worse, marrying someone who's wrong for you. (not being attracted to someone is a good indication it's the wrong person for you :) But of course, photos don't give the whole picture (no pun intended ;))

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Anonymous
11/15/01 at 13:04:22
Salam, i met someone in university a few years ago, and at first was not attracted to him physically at all. We became very good friends,and slowly i fell in love with his personality to the point i started finding him attractive. Those points which i first thought 'now way' now became sorta cute...so you never know! wasalam

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Anonymous
11/15/01 at 13:10:00
As-Salaamu-Alaikum, I appreciate all of you guys input.  They have all really made me think, analyze, analyze, analyze.  And more analyzing.  I discussed it with my mom, I made istikarah prayer last night.  I have realized that there wasn't anything particular about his personality or interests that just really attracted me to him.  To be honest, the attraction was that he is muslim, my age(21), and is true about being muslim.  Those qualities are good for me, but not enough to ummm... lets say keep me interested.   Of course the picture did not help, unfortunately.   Ok, there is the issue of meeting him in person.  For the moment that is not possible because he is away in the military overseas.  He will be in the military for about another four years.  All of this not enough for me to hold on.  So I cannot see his interaction with others.  I cannot interact with him.  In our conversation, it was nice to talk to him about Islam.  He dominates the conversation discussing his views, not necessarily in a rude way.  But I have literally cut him off to express my view.  It's not hard for me to end our conversations.  I'm ready to get off in about 20 minutes.   So the united advice is that if he has something to back him up such as strong deen, great personality, great vibe with he and myself and others, etc.  To me the back up is not strong enough.  Half of it I can't even evaluate because he is not here.  Our lifestyle situations are not ready for a marriage either.  He is in the military, I'm in school.   Totally different lives.  I'm not trying to sacrifice school right now, either. Through this post I'm writing now, I feel Allah(SubHana Wa Ta`ala ) is showing me where I stand in this situation.  I am in amazement and nearly to tears because I see and feel the grace and strength of Allah(SubHana Wa Ta`ala ).  The guilt I had of not being attracted to the brother was because I thought it to be politically correct to like him regardless.  But according to my whole spirit about this brother, he is not for me.   Thank you guys for all your advice, encouragement, everything.  This a wonderful site.  May the grace of Allah be with all of you. Masalaam

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
mujaahid
11/15/01 at 16:09:46
Assalaaiu-alaikum Hania SO you have a score for me eh? Well what is it? I'm waiting, and while i wait, i think i'll just go a polish my taleban supplied Stinger Anti Hania Missile ;)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Kashif
11/15/01 at 19:46:16
assalaamu alaikum I'm saying this with my moderator's hat on. This discussion board is one of the best, if not the best, on the WWW, and that is because of the thoughtful contribution and advices of its members which answer questions both practical & spiritual - from an Islamic perspective. Alhumdulillah. However, this particular thread has overstepped a line whereby regulars are engaging in talk, albeit in a joking manner, which is inappropriate (e.g. marriage ratings of one for another). And what makes the matter worse is that other members have contributed to it by egging it on. Please bring it to a stop. Kashif Wa Salaam

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Anonymous
11/16/01 at 11:05:57
[slm] I just wanted to tell you  a story of  a girl I knew of. She loved to go to these Pakistani/Indian chat rooms on yahoo. She started instant messaging a guy who she later found out was a Hindu. She did not stop her relationship with him and continued to  a point where she phone him using phone cards so her parents wouldn't find out. She never told her parents and later on she left her home. She finally woke up and realized all the haram she was doing. This is why I really feel instant messaging and chat rooms are wrong. People start getting comfortable with people of the opposite sex and it can really get out of control and it can lead not only to emotional turmoil, but also to actions that are haram. How do you know the person, almost a complete stranger, is who he/she claims he is? You don't know- he might be some with a criminal background. I think it is important to stay on the safe side of the tracks and to avoid chat rooms or IM with people who are the opposite sex.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Anik
11/16/01 at 22:47:04
asalamu alaikum, that's true... in a way, that is a problem with even things like he message board, you get so used to talking to someone it's so natural to take the next step... you can flirt in all sorts of subtle ways ;) just gotta wath yourself... asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
BroHanif
11/17/01 at 02:39:49
In the UK we had an incident where this man of 60 sexually assaulted this younggirl. And yes it started of from chatrooms. My advice keep the conversation open, and if you gotta mail the opposite sex do it with the fear of Allah. Also have you noticed now, if anyone has a webemail account all the ads for flirting and meeting people and having an email relationship ...??? Maan its sick. And they have these images of young people kissing each other and having a laugh....man what a sick society. Salaams Hanif

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
SuperHiMY
11/21/01 at 20:21:21
AsalamAlay.com,        Peace and e-Greetings be upon you all...        oh I just can't believe you ALL GOT IT WRONG !!!!        To my anonymous sister:        Simply ask for MORE PICTURES.        Say...like TWENTY pictures.        Different pictures.        have you ever had what YOU thought was a good picture        taken but other people thougth was just, bleh!        WEll then...?        Get the bro to email ya some more pictures of himself.        Maybe that'll work.        Keep Smilin'        ~ HiMY! ~

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
meraj
11/22/01 at 00:06:49
slm, heh.. thats awesome dude ;-D i thought of doing that once, but i dont have enough decent pictures to make a collage or gallery with ;) props to you for havin the guts to share that 8-) post modified by moderator

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
mujaahid
11/18/01 at 13:09:17
Assalaamu-alaikum I think thier is a problem hear. DO we really think its appropriate for us to be showing photo's of each other publicly? I mean islaamically, is it right? We should not be even talking to the opposite sex online, unless its for islaamic purposes, let alone making our pictures available!!! Bro i have one question for you, where was your beard ;)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
SuperHiMY
11/21/01 at 22:18:41
Dear Muslim Warrior:        Should we be showing our pictures online?        What is the difference between seeing me in person        and seeing a picture of me in my collage?        I ain't naked or anything, on the contrary, looking        at my collage, I have a few items indicating I am a        Muslim, the Salam in Arabic, The Kaaba for when I        did Hajj when I was much younger, and a few gif/jpg        images I, ahem, appropriated from the Jannah.org website.        Where's my beard?        Looking at my younger pictures, you'll notice I do in fact        usually have peach fuzz if not outright stubble.        I don't usually have a beard.        I almost always wear my loud, colourful, woolen,        obvious-I-am-a-Proud-To-Be-Muslim KUFI in public.        You can see me wearing that Kufi in the picture of me        in Victoria British Columbia in 1996.        People do stop and chat with me in public about islam        and muslims and invariably ask me, "Where can I get a        hat like that?"        I'm lazy when it comes to my beard.        I hate shaving it. I hate trimming it. I hate taking care        of a beard.                Hence, since I KNOW FULLY WELL IN MY OWN HEART, that IF        I have a beard, it is truely because I am lazy, way too        lazy to shave it, and I truely do NOT have the beard        because I am trying to follow the Sunnah in this one matter.        YES, paradoxically, that does mean I get off my duff and        shave my face perhaps once or so a week.        But I do like being a Muslim in Public.        Plus I thought, IF I get married to a sister some day who        doesn't feel as comfortable wearing her hijab in public,        she might say, "where's your 'Hijab' HiMY?"        Meaning either my beard, or me demonstrating publicly        that I am a muslim. So I wear my 'hijab' so to speak,        I wear that Kufi.        Almost 100% of the time I step outta the house.        There are many Jews and Christians who have beards in Toronto.        That don't mean they are Muslims.        Muslim Warrior, Where's your picture?        ...The one of you wearing a Kufi?        Oddly, you didn't ask "Where's the Hijab" in the picture from        1969, of me being in my mom's womb in front of our house        in Wimbledon.    ------------------------        Now getting back to the first post in this thread that started        it all...        What to do once seeing the Brother's photo turns off your        interest:        Maybe if pictures don't do it, ask him for a video of himself        either VHS or some Online format.        MOVING pictures in a video may be just what part of your        heart needs to see to overcome the other objections inside        your heart.        What think? modified by moderoator

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
BroHanif
11/18/01 at 20:14:33
And what about the lowering of the gaze ??? Doesn't that count for something ?  If your photos are online then maybe your wife has access to them, fine. However, so do the rest of the other population on this planet who use the net. And if a sister were to see you at college or at uni, she should lower her gaze and not look at you. Your forgiven once for the look, not multiple times. Why make things harder for yourself. We should desist in online converstations when there is a chance of fitnah being developed, the more we talk with the opposite sex, where there is no shame  or the fear of Allah the more we dig our graves deeper. Salaams Hanif

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
NewJehad
11/19/01 at 07:29:47
hay! is my photo ok,, go to my web page to see!!!

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
solehah
11/19/01 at 10:42:15
Salaam I am back after a long hiatus !!! (Not that I was ever missed *sniff*) And wow what a lot of catching up to do, all the posts I have to read cos they just look too darn interesting to give a miss. Well, I guess by now, the sister who posted this thread originally must have made up her mind from the way she replied but I am responding just in case some fingers wander over and want answers of this kind too. Love is a very perplexing thing.  There is no formula or yardstick to measure when a feeling transform from like, to attraction to love.  I mean, how many of us actually look inside and assess what we mean when we say we love Allah ? Bro Mujaahid mentions that the heart is THE organ to consult when talking abt love but experience has shown me that relying on the heart alone can cause lots of pain and hurt. The trick is to engage all the faculties Allah has endowed us with and to supplement it with solat and dua and really long conversations with Allah.  Be honest with oneself and most importantly, keep our priorities in life very clear.   Before even reading the sister's reply I somehow know what her answer would be :) See, if you have to ask a whole group of people what you should do with a person after you have seen his/her picture and found him/her unattractive, then you have actually made a decision :) Right now, my dua is that you find peace with your decision sister and may Allah bless you with the right partner. PS Me too notice Jehad's line. Me did not wanna click on the link given by him cos me not interested in what he looks like. But if any of you has seen him me would like an assessment vis-a-vis his statement lololol PPS And regarding this beard and outward manifestation of faith etc yada yada, let it go already. Sheeshhhhhhhh Ramadan Mubarak to all and may Allah accept all our ibadah and dua, Amin.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
mujaahid
11/22/01 at 00:18:10
Assalaamu-alaikum Solehah! So your back from Afghanistan? So how was it fighting for the taliban? Did you give my salaams to Osama Bin Laadin? And to Mullah Omar ;-) Hey you back to argue with me eh? Well i said follow your heart in terms of looking for a marriage partner, not for anything else dodgy! When you have met someone, and their character pleases you, and you feel they are a good person, and your heart feels attached to this person, then go for it, marry him, even if your head says he is ugly, and wont look good on your arm. However if this is some drug addict, or drinker, or bad boy, and your heart wants him, well you gota be stupid to go for him! Even if he is great looking, becaus end of the day, no matter how good looking, he is scum, whereas the ugly, yet practising muslim bro is the one who will give you a happy, comfortable, stable life. post modified by moderator

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
se7en
11/20/01 at 21:55:16
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, As far as I'm concerned, every sister on here looks like this: :-)   And every brother looks like this: ;-) (sorry br Khalid) Let's leave it at that, ok :) What's interesting is that in order to get a brother smiley, you have to use the ;).  What does this indicate about the nature of brothers?  Hmm... :) take care wasalaamu alaykum.

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
NewJehad
11/21/01 at 05:36:02
i always thought that the one seven called brother smilly was a sister with a baseball cap?

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
M.F.
11/21/01 at 09:38:55
[quote]i always thought that the one seven called brother smilly was a sister with a baseball cap?[/quote] And a beard???? :-)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
NewJehad
11/21/01 at 13:21:27
not a beard, the bottom of the hijab. some sister where it properly so a lot of the face is covered as well

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Arsalan
11/21/01 at 14:31:43
[slm] [quote] What's interesting is that in order to get a brother smiley, you have to use the ;).  What does this indicate about the nature of brothers?  Hmm...[/quote]I wouldn't be surprised if Jannah made it that way on purpose!!! :) Jehad, you're hilarious man :D

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
Mystic
11/21/01 at 15:04:22
[slm] I think these conversations are Amazing....Jazakum Allahu Khayran for your contributions....its really cool to read the different views especially on what sometimes appears to be murky waters on these weighty issues :-)

Re: Want to Discontinue relationship with brother
solehah
11/26/01 at 12:48:08
[quote]Assalaamu-alaikum Solehah! So your back from Afghanistan? Hey you back to argue with me eh? [/quote] Waalaikumsalam wr wb Mujaahid Much as I would like to please you, I wasnt in Afghanistan ;p I was actually visiting this lonely planet called real life heh heh Argue with u ? Oh my dear brother no...not at all. For, in order to argue a case, one must engage the mind. And brother, you are very much the heart engager he he. Ramadan Mubarak Mujaahid.  May you receive ALlah's blessings, Amin. Wassalam
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