Where r we

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Where r we
BroHanif

11/13/01 at 15:45:40

Salaams to all,
I just thought I'd write something, to ease my heart, you know best get it off the chest. If I offend anyone then forgive me for the sake of Allah.

Well now it seems that the final Islamic state is starting to fall(once more), people are now rejoicing in the streets of Kabul by listening to Britney Spears and trying their utmost to look like that man from the Gillete ad. Well it appears even the dead soldiers are not respected, their clothes are searched and kids are spitting on these soldiers who once invitied people to the keys of jannah, inviting them to good and forbidding evil.
My heart aches as I try to make my brain and heart absorb all of the past days pains of the ummah.

Somebody once said that this was the end of the 'Taliban' I told im no way. In a sense its not the fall of the Taliban or IEA its the fall of the muslim ummah. We are back at what sq I don't know, in fact I can't even remember when a real Islamic state was held by the muslims. Today as I read the papers, it dawned on me from Algeria to the Far East, we muslims don't have a home to go to. A real Islamic home where Islaam is being flourished, instead what we have is pockets of muslim countries like Dubai who have introduced gambling to promote commerce, Morocco where you can expose yourself and get a good sun tan front and back, we have countries like Indonesia and Malaysia where muslims are in the majority yet their rights are undermined. We have muslims in Europe and in the US, heart of kufrastan, yet have the ability to practice Islaam more than those believers in muslim countries.

We as muslims go to many conferences, we have Bukahri and Sahi muslim on CD, not to forget the heaving bookshelf of leading books, we have talks by nearly each and every scholar, yet there seems to be something fundamentally wrong, we are just not growing as muslisms.
We have one quran, yet we have many views. We were once masters on the sciences, we were the ones who introduced human rights and animal rights way before the UN convention. We had rights for prisoners of war, way before the Geneva convention. we did this and we did that...all in the past it seems.

Yet now it appears that light of the muslims has dimmed, we are no longer sought after, instead it appears we are some kind of parasite on the states.
New scholars are now telling us Islaam is a religion of peace, Shiekh Bin Bush and Mullah Blair are the leading authorities, where they have got their Islaam from seems to be astonishing as these two molvis have managed to unite most of the world and are now leading forth with the New Islaam order.

As muslims we need to sort our act out, today, right now. not tomorrow. We were once the champions of the world and insha-allah if we hold fast to the Quran and Sunnah and work together, maybe just maybe we might just make it one day. Otherwise...

Well these are my thoughts, I've had a strange but tiring day. Sorry for the ranting
May Allah make it easy for us all. Ameen.

Re: Where r we
Merimda

11/13/01 at 22:34:11

salam,

I understand your frustration. However I'm optimistic about things. The state of the Umma right now is just a phase..it is really nothing new..Over the course of history the Muslim umma has had its ups and downs..Everytime the Umma had reached its lowest point they were sent a trial..like the crusades, the mongols, colonialism, the war in the former Yugoslavia ( to give but a few examples)..to revive them..

I look at things this way: Whatever may look to us as bad now..may in fact have some khair in it..For example this whole sept 11. incident..many thought that ppl would be turned off of Islam as a result..in fact the very opposite has happened now more ppl are interested in Islam..On my campus last week we had a lecture about Islam and the auditorium (capacity 350 ppl) was packed..half of the ppl were non-Muslims..which was amazing bc never before had we had that many non-muslims at an event about Islam.

So perhaps this war is an awakening for Muslims and non Muslims alike..you never know what khair will come out of it in the future..

and so perhaps ppl are embracing western culture in Afganistan and other Muslim countries..but maybe they take Islam for granted now...maybe once they have lived the other way of life they might become disenchanted and want to return to Islam..This way they will fully appreciate Islam later..

There are so many possiblities..

But do you see my point..insha-Allah some good may come out of this..Muslims may start looking at themselves..may begin to appreciate Islam, may finally stop bickering and start focusing on the priorities..We don't know what will come out of all of this but I believe this whole Sept 11 incident and the war in Afganistan is just one of the many steps in a long process of revival of the Muslim umma.. insha-Allah I believe in the end this will all lead to good.

salam
merimda

Re: Where r we
NewJehad

11/14/01 at 05:48:52

THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS WILL NEVER BE PLEASED WITH YOU UNTIL YOU EXCEPT THEIR RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do we all believe in the above verse?
Before I mention what is happening in Afghanistan I will mention what happened in the khilafah and how we lost the WW1 which led to the distruction of the khilafah and how the kaffar reworded the traitors among us and the level of respect the kaffar have for them.
During the first world war the Muslims sided with the Germans. The kaffar British told the Arabs to help the British fight the Turks and in exchange the British will give them an Arab khilafah. The Arabs agreed and fought their Muslim brothers from within for the sake of the foreign kaffar.
After the khilafah was defeated and then abolished. And then the lands were divided up between the kaffar. Each with a puppet Arab ruler loyal to a kaffar master. And Palestine was given to the Jews. Winston Churchill was asked, “how can you do this to the Arabs, after what they have done for us”, and do you know what he said in response?
“The Arabs are like dogs, if you kick them, they will come back to you to lick your face to show you how much they love you”.
Read the above verse again, and again and again, and never forget it.
When the Jews first came to Palestine they were welcomed in, Muslims feed them with their own food and sheltered them in their own homes. After the khilfah was destroyed these same Jews showed their gratitude by killing, raping and expelling the very people who had helped them.
Hatred comes from their mouths but what their hearts conceal is even worse.
HATRED COMES FROM THEIR MOUTHS BUT WHAT THEIR HEARTS CONCEAL IS EVEN WORSE
The Taliban had their chance to establish the Khilafah, thereby getting all the Muslims who fear Allah to unite under them. They didn’t. W would of liked them to declear themselves khilafah and try and take control of Uzbekistan and Pakistan. They refused saying “ we are not khilafah, we are only interested in Afghanistan”. And now Pakistan and Uzbekistan are bases the kaffar are using to attack Afghanistan.
Read the above verse again!
You can’t appease the kaffar. Cause what ever you do other then abandoning your religion the kaffar will always hate you. If we allow kufr to remain, the kufr will try each and every chance it gets to destroy us. So even though taliban did not attack and never intended to attack Uzbekistan and Pakistan, now Pakistan and Uzbekistan are doing what they can to wipe out the taliban.
Anyway, what do we do now?
Nothing has changed. The reason why the kaffar can attack us in Afghanistan now is the same reason 2 billion Muslim cannot unite to destroy a nation with only 5 million Jews.
It is cause we don’t have a state, a khilafah.
This is the way all our problems have been solved during our whole history. We have always had problems, but today we have no way of trying to solve them cause the ummah does not have a single leadership to work under.

All the Muslim countries have armies containing Muslims. If we don’t use these armies to remove the kufr rulers who are in control of our countries, the kufr rulers will use them to try and remove all traces of Islam from us. Read the above verse again! They will try and do it slowly to try and stop us from noticing. And to give the government scholars a chance to justify the destruction of Islam.

Re: Where r we
gift

11/14/01 at 08:17:54

[slm]

i thought this 'khilafah' thread had already been locked ???

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
bhaloo

11/14/01 at 09:53:41

slm

As long as we don't get into some sort of group discussion, insha'Allah this should be ok then.

Re: Where r we
Anik

11/14/01 at 11:22:15

asalaamu alaikum,

understanding what the Scripture says about the Jews and the Christians,

is it right for us to go off criticizing and belittling them?

and while we can put a sweeping label and generalize on all of them, should that be a source of hatred against them?

Br. Jehad if we are to be tolerant and claim ourselves as peace-loving, then we can't be taking the verse of the Christians and Jews never being pleased with resentment.

After all, the same could be said about the way many muslims are acting today no? We would never be pleased with Jews or Christians till they accept our religion, this is undeniable just when we advertise the statment saying the exact opposite in bitterness and we show this by pointing out their faults and spreading news of how the "Jews" persecuted us muslims and how they are all evil.

It makes me sick to see so many fellow muslims blame everything on Jewry and pump anti-Jewish blame for the WTC, I know they're not prfect, but to hate them so much... let's remember Israel in no way reflects the desire of all Jew worldwide. Hw will these people feel our love and warmth?

We have been told about some of the actions people in these groups might take, but imagine a Jew or Christian coming on this board to learn about Islam,

and finding these verses posted and accusing them (the verses of cours eare Truth, but we have to watch how we point this out)

they will feel hated... they will think Islam is racist and preaches hate,

i don't think those above verses were meant to start spewing out anti-Christian and anti-Jewish sentiments, but already it seems we take it out of hand and start to use it to promote intolerance.

Perhaps it's me who doesn't know as much about Islam as I should before I talk- but I have noticed two groups of muslims, one who preach against Ahl-al-Kitab with these verses actively and alienate them and others who read these verses, learn the wise lesson, and keep being tolerant and forgiving as well as unbiased in their view towards any normal Jew or Christian. Forgive me for saying these things, Allah SWT forgive me if I have said anything wrong. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Where r we
Anik

11/14/01 at 22:36:30

asalaamu alaikum,

why is it whenever I respond, the thread seems to die off... :(?

lol it's all good. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Where r we
Anik

11/14/01 at 22:37:33

and why is it that my posts appear twice even though i click once (i hope i do!)? asalamu alaikum. abdullah,.
Re: Where r we
NewJehad

11/15/01 at 06:12:05

Anik, the above verse is a statement of fact, not a criticism. Muslims need to remember the above verses in international relations. Other wise we will be stung from the same hole continuously, we have already been stung from there more then twice.

What made you think I was peace loving?
As far as I know the only people to give that fatwa were Shake Bush and mowlana Blair?
Real Muslims will never belittle Jihad. This part of our deen will always be a part of it. Even at times like now when the oppressors of the world want it removed.
We are the people who believe that if it wasn't for Jihad Churches, Synagogues and Monasteries where Allah's name is remembered would be destroyed.
This world is not Jannah. It will always have oppression. And the cure to oppression that Allah has given us is Jihad. And Jihad is the quickest rout to Jannah.
Unlike the kaffar our intention is not to forcibly convert them or exterminate them. Like they are trying to do with us. And yes they are trying to forcibly convert us, in to the deen which they call "the western way of life". Any those of us who refuse to submit to it are killed as terrorists.
We just want to liberate them, from the harm they are doing to them selves, ourselves and all other inhabitance of this planit with their freedom and democracy. And we will protect them like how we protect our children in exchange for the jiziyah.

Anik, it is true not all Jews are Zionists. But that is not the main reason why people are suspicious of them. There are plenty of other reasons. Today two of the most anti Islamic Muslim countries are ruled by Jews. Turkey and Uzbekistan. It is also due to the Talmud. How do you expect people to think about them when they believe that all other human beings were created by God only to serve them?
Shouldn't we suspicious of People who believe it is Hallal to steal from non Jews?
Or that when a Jewish man rapes a non Jewish women, it is the non Jewish women who should be punished?
And the majority of them believe in the Talmud. As far as I know only the Ethiopian Jews reject it. That's why they are persecuted in Israel.
Any way, who is the racists? The people who believe that all other races are created by God to be their slaves, and that they are the CHOSEN PEOPLE, or people who don't like this belief? Cause from what I can see what is happening is that they are saying they are superia and any one who disagrees with this statement is labelled a racist anti Jew?
Re: Where r we
BrKhalid

11/15/01 at 09:34:24

Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]"Where are we?"[/quote]

"Where were we?"

Re: Where r we
Rashid

11/15/01 at 23:10:49

[slm]

[quote]if we are to be tolerant and claim ourselves as peace-loving, then we can't be taking the verse of the Christians and Jews never being pleased with resentment.[/quote]

I would just like to add, that we are in fact tolerant and peace loving until we are attacked. What has been happening and is happening in Palestine, Chechnya, and Afghanistan affects us all. Aside from the fact that these are our brothers and sisters being slaughtered, there is also a political aspect in that those who are fighting for the sake of Allah are now labeled as terrorists. Putin calls the Chechnyans terrorists, Sharon calls Hamas terrorists, and Bush calls the Taliban terrorists. Meanwhile, here in America new laws have been passed which enable authorities to conduct secret searches of your home, monitor all your communications, detain "suspects" indefinetely, and of course military tribunals for "suspects". So you see, those who say La Ilaha Ila Allah wa Muhammad Rasulullah are under attack from all sides, this is such a huge trial from Allah that I fear some of us may fail, and one of the ways that we have been failing is the constant bickering and fighting. Witness the topics that are currently important to muslims but are forbidden on this board due to the constant bickering:
1- Taliban
2- Usama
3- Hizbut Tahrir
4- Hamza Yusuf (all because of his lack of beard, this is how low we've come to)

So what better way to divide and conquer a people than to get them arguing endlessly? (not debating, there are etiquettes of debate which we all need to brush up on)
Also, Bush is a born again Christian, and people want to say that this is not about religion...

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
Saleema

11/16/01 at 01:01:37

[slm]

Are people criticizing Hamza Yusuf because of a lack of beard? Man, he can't grow one! sheeshh....

anyway, "We have muslims in Europe and in the US, heart of kufrastan, yet have the ability to practice Islaam more than those believers in muslim countries."

Quite arrogant statement i would have to say. Sorry, no offense. Why do we Muslims in the West think this way about ourselves? What makes us any better than the people back home? Geez... do we actually beleive that the number of practicing Muslims which we have here is greater than in any given Muslim country? Oh but they worship on graves... Oh wait- but over here we have Muslims flocking on the weekend to clubs and porno houses instead of to the Masjid.

Come on...it's like this all around. You got a lot of these grave worshiping people here in the west too...when they go back home they flock to the pir's graves and make duas. They even call my dad up for taweez here in the U.S. cuz he knows the Quran. This is an educated lady begging for one. and my dad has no clue in the world about these things :O

Have you seen the ads in the Pakistani/Indian Muslim newspapers lately? Some of them carry ads of "holy men" or Pirs who can tell you your future and can cure all your troubles with a little bit of abra kadabra here and there--without the magic band commonly seen in cartoons though. And all their ads, like a true Muslim's start's with the bismillah... How thoughtful.

We are no better off spiritually collectively as a community than people back home. Just maybe a lot more comfortable and with stable futures.

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
BroHanif

11/16/01 at 19:43:38

AWW,
[quote]Quite arrogant statement i would have to say. Sorry, no offense. [/quote]
I don't take offence from your words and insha-allah I never will, how can I take offence if we as muslims get upset on just talking to each other then maan we are in serious problems. To me you are my sis in Islaam and that is what binds us together.

[quote][Oh wait- but over here we have Muslims flocking on the weekend to clubs and porno houses instead of to the Masjid. [/quote]

You have clubs and brothel centres everywhere not just in the West. There are drinking dens and brothels everywhere, sadly in Saudia as well.

[quote]"We have muslims in Europe and in the US, heart of kufrastan, yet have the ability to practice Islaam more than those believers in muslim countries."[/quote]

I don't know about your situation in the US but I can tell you for certainty that there are no INFORMERS in my mosque. People can give a bayaan and will not be arrested. Recently the mosques in Saudia, yes Saudia heart of Islam as they say, have placed informers in all the mosques. Anyone saying anything about the current situation will be detained. And you tell me that we can practice Islaam freely.

People can congreate on the streets and give Dawah here, try doing that in good old Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudia and you will banged up. A group of more than 15 people coverging is deemed to be against the govt.

Have you ever written a letter to Premier Bush or Blair in this country no probs, try doing that in the Mid East and not only you will be banged up but your family as well.

I'm not saying everyone in the West is perfect but according to me, I find a lot of ease practicing Islaam in the UK than in the Mid East. You can give dawah openly here, to me that is very important. Can you do that over there ? I know the situation is getting worse in the West by the day, but until then what else do we do ?. How is practicing deen for you in the US ?

We discuss issues like beards, keeping the trousers above the sunnah, I know these are important but we are missing some grave priorities and one of them is how can we get united, be like brothers to each other instead of deadly enemys.

All the countries, muslim lands, in the world are hell bent on nationalism, even the guys in Afghanistan they are based on tribal and nationlistic ideas. If they were based on real Islaam none of the problems would have really surfaced, I think. I just heard some comments by the Northern Alliance that they hate the Pakistanis and Arabs ? Why are they becuase they are muslim or because they are from another country ?. One guy even said that I will kiss the Quran put it in my pocket and then kill the forieners. Why soo much hatred ?

The ummah is like a shattered glass now, and once the glass is shattered there is no point drinking from it, because we are useless.
Everyone has taken hold of nationalism and they think they are the best. The Arab's think they are the best and they look down on others, the Pakistanis the same, the Indians the same, the Malays and Indonesians the same. And within these nationalists they have their own ideas for power. Its a shame this, we were once together, that was at the golden time of the Sahabas. And now the Kufr openly make a mockery of Islaam. We are easy targets now and there is no respect for us.

Best we stand united and not dividied. As they say Divide and conquer.
The Brits did it and got rid of the Khilafa by telling the Arabs you deserve to be kings and queens and not be under the rule of the Turks, they divided the land and established rule for the people. Thats how easy it was. And now the Ummah is in a complete state of confusion, no direction, no navigator, no guide.

I do agree about Pir baba, Allah save us and have mercy upon us.Ameen.

Re: Where r we
NewJehad

11/17/01 at 09:16:57

slm

I don't see the problem among our people. Nationalism is really only present on within the rulers the kaffar placed in our nation and the officials and government scholars the rulers have placed in to power.
What did you expect the northern alliance to say? some of them were fighting for the Russians and others were part of nationalist groups.
that is the kind of man the kaffar want to rule us. and when people like that rule us, they will try and use all the powers of the state to make all other people like them selves. That's why it is so important to Rule a nation by Islam. many people are satisfied with confining Islam to their hearts, while allowing the governments to rule by kufr. but the fact is, THE traces of Islam that remain inside the hearts of Muslims are too much for the governments, so they try and use all the powers of the state to remove even that.
My view of the Muslims in the Muslim world is that they are the best of us, that's why the governments need to keep secret police everywhere. Remember the people who rule our nations and the people who rule the west are the same people. It's just that the only time when a nation spends money on cracking down on people is when it sees those people as a threat.
The fact that the western governments have not started cracking down on Muslims living in the west is an insult to us, and an indication that we need to take a deep look at our iman and actions.

Re: Where r we
mujaahid

11/17/01 at 16:07:21

Assalaamu-alaikum

I think thier is a change taking place at the moment, a sort of revolution.

About 2 weeks ago i went to collect my 9 year old Sister from primary school. That was the first time in about 3 years i done that. I got thier a bit early, so the kids were still in class. But when the bell rang, and the kids started pouring out the classes, i saw before me a sight which totally shocked me, but in an a heart warming way. Nearly ALL the muslim girls had hijabs on!!! From the ages of 5 to 11, about 80% of the girls were wearing hijabs! It was truly amazing. When i was at this school, many years back, it was all muslims, yet i do not remeber a SINGLE girl wearing the hijab! So imagine it, about 10 years later, most of the girls are wearing Hijab!!! That is truly amazing!

Most of the girls my age, when they grew up started dating, becoming loose and basically slappers. These girls also, while small kids, never wore the hijab. So Inshallah, this new generation will not end up the way my generation did! It is so pleasing to see such a sight! Also so many "tough" guys i used to know are now full time practising muslims, with big beards, high cut Trousers, etc etc! 10 years ago you would NEVER have seen this!!! Also the mosques are now having more and more rows of people in Prayer! I am really starting to think that we as the muslims of the UK have finally realised our mistakes of the past 20 years and have started to learn from these and implement better ways of dealing with the probs of this society and maashallah the muslims are finally realising thier true indentity and are starting to follow islaam a lot more in thier lives! It truly is amazing! Its not MASSIVE, but its a BIG change, and a HUGELY noticable one. The government better start worrying, because the muslims are starting to wake from thier ignorance! Imagine the shock a minister would get if he entered a school and found about 200 of the 250 girls wearing hijabs! He would be shocked! So was I! But i was shocked for the good. A muslim hater would be terrified!

Inshallah this is something big happening! The parents of these girls made the mistakes, now they want thier kids to avoid them! This is brilliant news!

Muslims, feel pride in your religion, and in Islaam as a growing phenomeneom in this country. More and more converts are embracing islaam, and more and more born muslims are starting to follow thier true religion!

mujaahid

Re: Where r we
SuperHiMY

11/18/01 at 03:20:05

AsalamAlay.com,
Peace and e-Greetings be upon you all.

I normally keep my opinions in this subject area to myself,
Early this morning however, I find myself escaping the stress
I've had several times today by [i]escaping[/i] here to the
Madinah at Jannah.org. Stress due to trying to meet self
imposed deadlines and missing them, but enuffa 'bout dat.

Back to this thread...I've had the following thesis in my
heart and mind for a number of years and usually when I spit
it out, it doesn't meet with enthusiasm or approval.

So I'm just gonna post the main points of what I want to
say in a chronological order...you may hafta read it a coupla
times to get what I saying...here goes:

The life of the Prophet [saw] had three major periods.
[list]
[*]In Makkah, before Prophethood.
[*]In Makkah, as a Messenger and Seal of the Prophets(pbut).
[*]In Madinah after the Hijra, The Madinah period.
[/list]

BUT muslims during the lifetime of the Prophet[saw] had
MORE THAN THESE THREE periods:

[list]
[*]In Makkah, before Prophethood.
[*]In Makkah, after Prophethood.
[*]During The Makkan in the valley for about two years.
[*]The first Hijra period when a few muslims went to Ethiopia.
[*]The YATHRIB period before the arrival of the Prophet[saw]
[*]Finally, The MADINAN period, after the arrival of the Prophet[saw]
[/list]

This list is INCOMPLETE, I am ONLY listing the periods relevent
to my thesis.

[i]Okay, so what HiMY[/i]? some of you may be thinkin'...?
Bear with me...

Okay, to answer this thread's original question,
Let's look back into the lifetime of the Prophet[saw]
to see if we can recognize Where r we(sic).

Today, about FORTY PERCENT of the muslims on this planet live
as minorities in non-muslim-majority-population countries.

And, these muslims living in minority situations do not have
a local undisputed Amir-ul-Mumineen. They (me included)
just go about our daily lives...Waiting.

This situation, of muslims in a minority but without leadership
has ONLY HAPPENED ONE OTHER TIME...EVER.

In the lifetime of the Prophet[saw], the Muslims escaped
to Yathrib [i]from[/i] Makkah.

Why? Because the Quraysh made life almost unbearable
for muslims to practice Islam....in the birthplace of Qur'an, MAKKAH.

Hence, one by one, few by few, the Muslims each performed
Hijrah to YATHRIB and...once there, breathed easily
after such hardship under Qurayshi rule in Makkah.

Then they waited.

Every day, the Jews, and the Arabs of Yathrib
went to the outskirts of the city and waited. Hoping
to be the first to glimpse the Prohpet's[saw] arrival
in YATHRIB.

What else were the muslims doing in Yathrib before the
arrival of the Prophet[saw]? Not much. Just going about
daily life...waiting.

Skipping ahead in the story...

Eventually, the Prophet[saw] DID arrive in YATHRIB.
From here, we all know the story.

He established the FIRST masjid of Yathrib.
Translation: There was NO ESTABLISHED masjid in Yathrib before
The Prophet[saw]'s arrival in Yathrib.

He created the terms for conducting Halal business
with islamic dinars and dirhams and the contract law that
would govern trading with and between muslims.

THEN the City was RENAMED: Madinah-al-Munawarah. Just like at Jannah.org(!) ;-)

Initially, the muslims in Madinah-formerly-known-as-Yathrib,
were in minority population wise...but that changed virtually
overnight.

Ever after that, Muslims were the majority population living
under Amirs or Khalifas, be it Moghul, Andalusian, Abbasid or
Omayyid or Uthmani or other minor ones...

Until about 77 years ago.

With the MURDER of the institution of the Caliphate and the
carving up of the Uthmani Caliphate lands into the countries
we see today on maps and globes and the weather channel...

Kemal Ataturk abolished the Caliphate in 1924.

Muslims living in 1924 onwards ended up in a strange position:
[list]
[*]No Caliph existed per se, but dictators, kings, governors ruled instead
[*]Some of these rulers began to treat their muslim populations in some sense, the same way the Quraysh treated the Muslims during the Makkan Period in the Lifetime of the Prophet[saw] that is making the true public practice of islam difficult, if not a crime.
[*]Because of the carving up of the Uthmani Lands into minor states, in some areas, muslims were suddenly the MINORITY being oppressed.
[*]Muslims needed a place of safety to openly practice islam.
[/list]

Up until the 1920's, for the most part, Muslims on this
planet, stayed within the Former lands of the Muslim Empires.

And non-muslims stayed on their side of the border.

During my grandfather's lifetime This Reality has changed.

I humbly conclude that:

[list]
[*]The majority muslim-populated-lands from Morrocco to the South Phillipines can be called a Global Makkah
[*]Like the Quraysh of 1400 years ago, our Global Makkah today its own Quraysh-like behaviour in the rulers we have there today.
[*]The lands outside of this Global Makkah: Europe, the Americas, Russia, East Asia, Australia and so on are the place where muslims are escaping to...
[*]...This place of escape, where FORTY PERCENT of the muslim ummah live today in minority, I am calling GLOBAL YATHRIB
[/list]

GLOBAL YATHRIB

And what do we find in Global Yathrib lands?

[list]
[*]Muslim families and individuals, for the most part, able to freely practice their deen, unlike perhaps the Majority-Muslim-Populated country they performed a [i]Hijrah[/i] FROM.
[*]There is NO LOCAL muslim Amir-ul-Mumineen, or Caliph, living anywhere in Global Yathrib
[*]And thus, the muslims living in Global Yathrib lands today, pretty much go about their daily lives, practicing the deen of Islam...and...
[*]...they wait.
[*]And they wait.
[*]And we come onto this message board and metaphysically, by posting our rants and complaints about what is going on INSIDE the Global Makkah lands (Morrocco to the Phillipines), we are all just pretty much...waiting for something to happen.
[/list]

And what is that that we are waiting for today?

The arrival of the Caliph in Global Yathrib.

Perhaps not as a physical individual, but in an institution
consistent with what a Global Yathrib needs to
transform into a GLOBAL MADINAH.

After the Hijrah of the Prophet[saw], Madinah became the
seat of leadership of the Muslim State, even after the
peaceful conquest of Makkah, Madinah remained until Damascus
became the capital.

Within 10 years, Muslims will number TWO BILLION on this planet.
Most of that number will be inside Global Yathrib
and outside Global Makkah with its Quraysh-like rulers.
Today we do not have a Western World and Muslim World etc.
We have 'The West' and 'The Rest'.

In The West, non-muslim birth rates are nearing zero real growth,
whereas here in The West, Muslims have many children, lots and
lots of children. ( 'cept me, I ain't married yet :O )

In 'The Rest', again Muslims are having a similar population
explosion: Think India alone having 300-500 million muslims.

Eventually, Global Yathrib will become an authentic
Global Madinah.

And the answer to the question Where r we will be:

The Muslims of Global Madinah will have its own
peaceful re-conquest of Global Makkah giving today's
Quraysh-behaving-rulers amnesty, just like in the time
of the Prophet[saw] near the end of his life.

But the Global-Madinans won't stay in Global Makkah,
they'll visit from time to time, and they may even move
their capital city from one place to another.

But they will live happily ever after...InshAllah.

The End.

Re: Where r we
abc

11/18/01 at 13:47:13

Assalam alaikum

Himy, aren't you forgettting one minor detail in your comparison: the ppl of erstwhile Yathrib knew they had a leader (Rasullah saws), he just was in a different city trying to wrap up his obligations before he (saws) could come to them. But do the ppl of Global Yathrib [i] know [/i] who their leader is? They are waiting, for whome or what? Will this leader (individual or institution) arise from among them or will he, like 1400+ yrs ago come from the Global Makkah (as I think you're suggesting) ?? And will ppl collectively return to the deen after he arives or vice versa?

Re: Where r we
Saleema

11/18/01 at 17:00:37

[slm]

And Himy aren't you forgetting something else too? That the people
of Makkah moved for the sake of Allah first? How many of our parents came here to practice our religion? Did most of us come here for economic benefits? Yes, most of us did and conveniantly we discovered that we can practice our religion here without being harassed.

I have friends here who don't pray (except on jummah) who will
point out why living here is better--because we can practice our religion. errrrrrrr....yeah...

Remember CAIR's recent polls--majority of muslims are not members of any masjid? They don't even come for Jummah. Oh yeah, except for Eid prayers.

How many Muslim countries stop people from gathering to pray with the exception of Turkey? How many of them say don't wear Hijab except for Turkey? Yeah, socially it's not looked at very well for women to cover up in a lot of Muslim societies back home but it isn't here as well amongst those that think that way.

I think basically it all boils down to this: We have stable economic futures. We can say a lot of things here in the press and public without having to worry about the secret police and getting killed. May I remind you that more than 600 people have been detained on secret evidence in the United States? It is politically incorrect(or a sin)to criticize Israel? I can go on and on.

If a majority Muslims here at least practiced the basics of Islam, then I would except what you said. But the sad reality is that we don't.

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
ismiller

11/18/01 at 17:59:49

What the situation in Afghanistan suggests to me, is that our brothers tried to light a fire of hope, but we will never really know. Now you and I need to ask some questions:

1) Are the rulers of a nation not burdened by Allah with the responsibility for the well-being of their people?

2) Did our Taliban brothers have justification in waging jihad rather than sueing for peace? Bearing in mind the forces ranged against them?

3) Is it not a greater jihad to tackle mass starvation and destitution within Afghanistan? Or was that a more daunting task than going to war with kuffar?

4) If our Taliban brothers represent a facet in the new dawn of sunni Islam. What spiritually and materialistically has been their contribution? And can we realistically replace it, if it has been lost?

5)How did we permit the US and allies able take the moral high-ground by refusing to capture and try alleged murderer suspects?

6)What are the over-riding learning points and where to from here?

Please excuse any unintentional offence due to my (mis)understanding of the world we share, and please enlighten me as to how to cure it.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Ismail

NS
Re: Where r we
Rashid

11/19/01 at 01:53:36

[slm]

I would just like to answer a few of your questions from my understanding

[quote]1) Are the rulers of a nation not burdened by Allah with the responsibility for the well-being of their people?[/quote]

Indeed. And what is this responsibility? Is it not to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil? Is it not to ensure that Allah is worshipped and the shariah established? When the Taliban took control the country was already in ruins, infrastructure non-existent, poverty rampant. To say that this is their fault is totally irresponsible. Furthermore, even their enemies admit that crime and mayhem was not an issue.

[quote]2) Did our Taliban brothers have justification in waging jihad rather than sueing for peace? Bearing in mind the forces ranged against them?[/quote]

It seems we have a short memory. Before the bombings started they offered to try Usama, they offered to turn him over to a neutral third country, and they repeatedly asked for evidence of his involvement in 9-11. But who said "no negotiations"?

[quote]3) Is it not a greater jihad to tackle mass starvation and destitution within Afghanistan? Or was that a more daunting task than going to war with kuffar?[/quote]

The other side of that coin is that kufaar went to war with them, since I don't recall any Taliban troops crashing planes or killing Americans. What are they supposed to do when cluster bombs and daisy cutter bombs are raining down on them, and the civilians? And I've said this before, where was the assistance from the wealthy Muslims?

I don't mean to point fingers and create fitnah, but I must say that I support the Taliban for the simple fact that they took a stand and tried to establish a state based on Islam. Yes, there are issues with women, and education, and such. But look at the state of the rest of the muslim world, where inviting to Islam can get you arrested (Egypt) where bribery is widespread (Pakistan) Where foreign soldiers prevent you from going to a masjid (Palestine) and where alcohol, gambling, and prostitution are common (too many to list).

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
ismiller

11/20/01 at 03:20:01

Certainly we are all shocked at the sitution within Afghanistan and there is no question of the brutality of the oppressors which will now have a free hand in the region. At this stage, when we see the type of characters that the taliban were dealing with, one cannot but admire their leadership. But surely the expulsion of foreign aid workers was an abuse, considering the humanitarian crisis, and over 3 million displaced Afghans leaving the lands under their control?

Re: Where r we
Mystic

11/20/01 at 09:19:19

[slm]

like Himy i
have been
coming to Madinat
lately a lot to escape the Ummah's stress...

My essence has been feeling
parched
thirsty
for
answers

sometimes
i
can barely
eat

sometimes i can
hardly
digest

then something in me
moves
and
says
Stop
Maliha!

"don't you know
this
is
simply
one
of
Allah's
many
tests?"

its not about leadership
for
we
are
our
own
leaders,

conquerors,

we
ARE
the
revolutionaries

our
mere
existence
articulates
MUJAHIDEENS

within
us
lies
everything
we
are
looking
for...

Subhana Allah...

His winds flow
in
and
out
of
my
soul...

and
sometimes
i
raise
my
helpless
tattered
white
flag

and
say
to
Allah
I
surrender

THE UNIVERSE
IMMEDIATELY
SURGES
AND
MY
VULNERABLE
ESSENCE
FEELS
PROTECTED
AND
WHOLE

Allah's essence
will
never
be
CRUSHED

LA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH :-) ;):) :-)

Sorry guys, i know this is a serious forum but i couldn't help add my two cents...

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
akhan

11/20/01 at 15:06:18

Asalaamalaikum,

Here is some food for thought....and action:

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html

Re: Where r we
hazratsheikh

11/22/01 at 16:21:37

[slm]

Listening to most of the non Governmental appointed scholars and muftis in the Islamic world there is almost unanimous opinion of these respected Ulemas that indeed Taliban are the one who implemented the minimum conditions so as to be qualified as the only true Islamic state in the World. Unfortunately they were not given respite to establish full system by the West and with deep regret Iran as well.
According to the opinion of Late Maulana Rashid Ahmed Ganguhi Rahmatullah Aliah in I think in the 19th century, he said real Khilafat will now come only when Imam Mahdi appears. I personally think no matter what or whoever tried to establish true Khilafat it won't succeed due to the rulers in the Islamic countries and the West.

And talking about Imama Mahdi reminds me of a comment in a book I read recently, Allama AbdulRahman Jalaluddin Seyuti RA mention that in his opinion the life of this Ummah will be over 1000 years and some more BUT it would be not more than another 500 years. We are now in the year 1422. And quite many scholars are of the opinion that we have entered that delicate and critical phase of the history of major wars as per the signs of Qayamah.

Brother Hanif mention about informers in the mosques in Muslim countries. What can be more tragedy of this Ummah that even in Dua'a of taraweeh in the Holy Haram today, not once did I hear the word of Jihad (which used to be before) or for curse on Jews (leave alone Christian since they are the masters)by Sheikh Sudais. Gone were the days of scholar and Mustajab-ud-Dawah like Sufian Thawri RA who was Imam of Kaabah and his execution order by Caliph Mansoor. Instead of Sufian Thawri it was Mansoor who died and Sufian Thawri lead his funeral prayer.

But we are hopeful. Inshallah Khair will come out from this Fitna. Ameen.

Re: Where r we
BroHanif

11/22/01 at 18:02:31

Well I've been thinking again for a few days, and another reason I think the Taliban were destroyed was just in case they established Khilafa rule. Do you think our other muslim countrys would have been ready to join em as one...???
I don't think so, thats why I think it was in the muslim countrys best interest(i.e. the leaders) to get rid of em, otherwise it would have meant losing their grip or power on the country. Now that isn't nice is it !

As for the haraamain, well its sad that just last year I used to hear the dua for khatamal quran and cheychan, palestine and afghanistan was mentioned,I'm hopefull insha-allah they will be mentioned again.

Sooner or later Imam Mehdi is gonna come, lets just hope we die as martyrs for Allahs cause. Ameen.

Salaams

Hanif

Re: Where r we
Anik

11/23/01 at 00:24:41

asalaamu alaikum,

i think Trinidad would've been a great place to start a khailafa, it's just it was started apparently in a bad way with some bad moves... otherwise it might have stuck.

In a way it would be cool if a khailafa was declared outside f the typical West and Middle East, just to get away from the typical stereotypes and sort of start fresh, like in a small area like the Caribbean, the Polynesian islands, someplace smal to start up... but hey, the bigger the better. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Where r we
mujaahid

11/23/01 at 15:43:39

Abu Fatimah the taliban have not been destroyed, in fact FAR from it. I have said all along, and will continue to say, the taliban have not been destroyed, they still have thier milotary, and thier will. Remeber they were not defeated, they withdrew themselves after the request of the people to avoid a serious war which would have killed thousands on innocents. The talibans withdrawal was tactical.

Remeber the russians invaded, and totally controlled afghanistan, built airports etc, yet they ended being defeated only 10 years later, by the same guys who form the taliban.

Do not write of the taliban bro, and do not dispair, and please DO remove the defeatest attitude so many muslims have taken. We have not been defeated. Mark my words...

The taliban will be back.

Re: Where r we
Rashid

11/24/01 at 22:45:56

[slm]

I'm curious, how does a group or a movement go about re-establishing the khilafah? We know that it was destroyed in 1924 by Ataturk. Now the Uthmanis (Ottomans) were the last to hold the khilafah. So, since there is no democracy in Islam obviously there won't be worldwide elections for khilafah. I see a lot of Hizbut Tahrir and other groups calling for khilafah, but how exactly will it be implemented? by who? where? what about those of us who live outside the traditional lands of Islam?
Or are we just supposed to wait for Imam Mahdi to lead us out of the hole we've put ourselves into? I don't blame Ataturk, the British, the Americans, the Zionists, all the usual suspects for the condition we're in today. I blame myself and the muslims because we're the ones who compromised our deen, we're the ones not declaring jihad against saddam, musharraf, qaddafi, assad, mubarak, arafat, and all the tyrants who fill their jails with ulema and persecute the believers. Instead we're busy denouncing America when America lets us practice our deen better than any so-called muslim country.

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
Saleema

11/25/01 at 02:38:18

[slm]

If you want to overthrow the muslim tyrants then go to there and join the mujahideen. freedom? last time i checked the fbi had arrested 11,000 people after the sept. 11th attacks.

the rest of the muslim countries allow you to pray and dress islamically, with the exception of turkey, they all allow for u to do the basics of islam. they have booze and night clubs but we american muslims have stayed away from these here we can stay away from those there and fight until the corrupt governments are throw off.

just like in america in the muslim countries don't write anything against the israelis. but expect to have trouble finding jobs and see a lot of poverty.

[wlm]

Re: Where r we
abdul_Mutali

11/27/01 at 02:20:21

As Salamu Alaykum
I was reading this very big thread and i felt one thing that we r not united.We call ourselves muslim we folow on book and one Rasul(saw) yet we divide in sects.
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." (5.51)

The jews and christians r goning to try and divide us.They r going to from allies with each other.Some might not call themselves jew or a christian still they make jew and christians their allies.what they r doing is calling for disunity based on nationalism,tribalism etc,which r all asabiyah.

It has been reported that the prophet(saw) said when Allah is not pleased with a nation he appoints the wrost among them as leader.(I frogot from which this is from can anyone help?)

I think this is what is happening nowdays.And i think its us.Allah is not pleased with us.We who call ourselves muslims should unite or atleast make an effort to.And not unite cuz we r from the same place or race but cuz we r muslims.

Our unity should be based on our beleive.Beleive in Tawheed.We should be guided by the quraan and sunnah of the prophet(saw) not the sunnah of a ruler,alim or anyone for that matter.

Lets take some time and pray for the people who r fight for the cause of Allah,who r blamed my the western media as terrorist.Lets not be afraid of the blame os the blamers.

In a hadeeth reported by Muslim:
Narrated Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman

"People used to ask the Messenger of Allah (peace be
upon him) about the good times, but I used to ask him
about the bad times fearing lest they should overtake
me. I said: Messenger of Allah, we were in the midst of
ignorance and evil, and then God brought us this good
(time through Islam). Is there any bad time after this
good one? He said: Yes. I asked: Will there be a good
time again after that bad time? He said: Yes, but in it will
be a hidden evil. I asked: What will be the evil hidden
therein? He said: (That time will witness the rise of) the
people who will adopt ways other than mine and seek
guidance other than mine. You will know good points as
well as bad points. I asked: Will there be a bad time
after this good one? He said: Yes. (A time will come)
when there will be people standing and inviting at the
gates of Hell. Whoever responds to their call will be
thrown into the fire. I said: Messenger of Allah, describe
them to us. He said: All right. They will be a people
having the same complexion as ours and speaking our
language. I said: Messenger of Allah, what do you
suggest if I happen to live at that time? He said: You
should stay with the main body of the Muslims and
their leader. I said: If they have no (such thing as the)
main body and have no leader? He said: Separate
yourself from all these factions, though you may have to
eat the roots of trees (in a jungle) until death comes to
you when you are in this state."

This is the time when people looking like us is calling us toward hell.And this is the time we should look hard for the Main body of muslims,the jammah of the muslims and thier leader.

My brothers and sisters in islam pls take time some time and visit this site:
www.muslims-unite.com

"the likeness of those who disbelieve (in relation to
the messenger) is as the likeness of one who calleth
unto that which heareth naught except a shout and
cry. Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense."(2.171)

Lets not be deaf dumb and blind and be happy with ourselves and brother Jehad quoted from the quran earlier "THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS WILL NEVER BE PLEASED WITH YOU UNTIL YOU EXCEPT THEIR RELIGION.."
Lets not take what non muslims think as real islam,lets try to find it out from the quraan and sunnah.

I will say again pls visit:
www.muslims-unite.com

May Allah Guide us all.Ameen

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