Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
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| ahmer |
| 11/27/01 at 20:22:46 |
[slm] Can you help on how to break down cultural differences when you want to marry someone out of your "nation" (despite being the same 'ummah' :o ).. I am looking for real real practical ways that help!! How to approach the issue and tackle it? It's a problem for a bunch of guys here. !! [wlm] ahmer |
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| Marcie |
| 11/27/01 at 21:11:16 |
| As salamu alaykum I have come to the conclusion that in a marriage you don't just have cultural differences, but cultural "family" differences as well. I think that the longer you know a person the easier it becomes to understand that person. As Muslims we should always try to make Islam the middle point. If we can accomplish that then we are all set. Other than that I recommend patience and the ability to compromise. Always try to understand the other person's point of view and try not to be judgemental about the other person's culture. Insha'Allah that might help you a bit. As salamu alaykum Marcie Ps. Are you asking about when you talk to someone about marriage what you should be talking about if you are from different countries and cultures? |
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| Mystic |
| 11/27/01 at 22:03:11 |
| [slm] Breaking down cultural barriers and language barriers is hard when there isn't a common Mother Tongue. Hence the term Ummah. We should always approach a situation head on. Someone please provide a reference from the Quran that will validate how one should approach other people's homes. Wa Allahu A'alam. [wlm] |
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| ahmer |
| 11/27/01 at 22:28:53 |
| just to define the problem a little more there is real islam mashaAllah on both sides , the difference is only in nationalities! |
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| amal |
| 11/28/01 at 00:31:15 |
| slm, Are they already married or is it a parents not agreeing to the match kind of problem? |
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| Anik |
| 11/28/01 at 02:56:03 |
| aslaamu alaikum, Br. Ahmer, my personal advice is, from what i have seen, visit the home country if the person is straight from that country (immigrant) and it helps a lot. I had no idea what live in Trinidad and Tobago was like... I am a second generation Canadian of Indian descent... typically, we have a misconstrued image of a lot of West Indians as crazy revellers and mock Indians... I went there for one week and finally realized it is the near-perfect harmony of East meets West, it was my Canada and my India in one, and a bit better; as well, the muslim ummah there was stronger than I ever imagined... it is now a place that could Insha'Allah be where i live the rest of my days- wa'Allahu Alam. My advice is: if the country's not too far off and if you have means, check it out even briefly... as well, speak to some brothers of that culture, find out the practices, mingle into a masjid of that culture if one exists (ex. a Bosnian masjid and community centre or Ethiopian masjid and community centre)... what else... read read the newspaper of teh country, get a feel for the politics (if often determines many cultural practices)... try the food, it's a big thing as well... just focus on the Islam and like a rope in quicksand, it'll pull you through the depths of culture that swirl around you. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
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| nehar |
| 12/06/01 at 05:48:05 |
| [slm] cultural and caste barriers s**ks I'm sorry, but thats wat i believe [wlm] Nehar in a gr8 mood |
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| nehar |
| 12/06/01 at 05:51:02 |
| [slm] ok im in a foul mood, uni s**ks!! ive got an assignment in 4 monday and im soooooooooooooooooooooooo tempted 2 write here instead!! [wlm] |
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| Mahmoodah |
| 12/06/01 at 06:28:13 |
| salam! Nehar.. HOW many times hav i told u to concentrate on ur work! Jeesh! neways, i totally agree, cultural differences really bug me! Ur identity SHUD b a Muslims, NOT summik else! neways, i dnt think im makin sense, wa-salam |
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| nehar |
| 12/06/01 at 06:37:50 |
| [slm] couldnt help coming back here. i just think breaking down cultural barriers is real diffucult, although not impossible!!! plz no 1 take me offesively and i apoligise in advance. I've got nothing against any caste or race, but i just have 2 say this. The bengali's seem 2 have a useless caste system, where u r sorta based on what ur grandparents did and earned which i really hate. Another caste system sorta is given by the british and they seem 2 not remember that. When ppl get married they talk about caste, its 1 of the 1st things asked is and its stupid. Then u got Pakistanis who r bad as us. They have the patans lookin down on the mirpuris. Its just pathetic!! then u get the pakistani's lookin down on us bengalis and benaglis look down on pakistani's. Bengalis think they r sooooooooooooo much betta and more religious and vica verse. They all claim 2 b religious yet they keep reinforcing the caste system. Bengalis marrying within the same race and caste just reinforces what islam hates. Its kinda racism. If more mixed marriages took placee these caste systems wud have 2 disappear cuz that way no pathan (Pakistani) cud say I am a gr8er caste than ma wife or hubi . N0 chowdhury (Bengali) cud b showing off their stupid british given title. of course there is another caste system of wealth, the wealthy think they can buy luv!!! The whole caste system is stupid. Allah swt has created so much yet it is only us humans who have a caste system. Allah swt created black and white, sum pl believing whhite is superior, but it is sumwhere in the quran saying in our gardens we have pink, red, white and many other colours of flowers, but is 1 superior than the other??? Neway sorry if i've offended anyone, cuz I have a habit of saying stupid things. but i just got thinking and dont think i make any sence now I’d luv 2 keep writing 2 u but I have 2 go and work. but im not making sence and ive got an asignment 2 start n finish Make dua 4 ma friends and family and esp 4 me cuz im so impatient take care [wlm] Nehar |
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| nehar |
| 12/06/01 at 06:40:46 |
| [slm] ok, i think i went off the subject. The only pratical way of going about this is educating the Muslim Ummah by teaching our kids their 1st identity is a muslim and not white, black or asian. Explain 2 our parents the true meaning of islam and how it is about uniting and not dis-uniting [wlm] |
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| Mahmoodah |
| 12/06/01 at 06:42:56 |
| salam, WOW....... Nehar, u actually said sumthing that i agree with! neways, u know how FOR da caste systam i am! haha! neways nehar, da ppl in our area r relyin on u to brake dis stupid caste system! wa-salam |
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| nehar |
| 12/06/01 at 06:56:06 |
[quote] neways nehar, da ppl in our area r relyin on u to brake dis stupid caste system! [/quote] [slm] u shudnt rely on ne1 and no1 is depending on me [wlm] |
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| M.F. |
| 12/06/01 at 09:22:01 |
| Assalamu alaikum, Here's a real practical way to deal with it, I've found. You said that there's real Islam on both sides. Al hamdu lillah, that's the main thing. Anywhere where there's a difference of opinion do some research and see what Islam says about it. Even when there's not a difference of opinion, and there's something that doesn't really make sense to you or doesn't go along with what you think is absolutely correct, do the research. Also, know that although the two people want to completely strip themselves of any cultural stuff, there's still the families, and I believe that's where most of the problems come from. Even within a same nationalitly these problems and differences exist. The best way (I believe) to deal with them is: when you're spending time with either family, just go along with what they're doing, unless it's totally unislamic. But when you want to do your own thing (like, waleema, aqeeqa etc) do things the sunnah way. Or as much as you can with both families interfering :-) May Allah make things easy for you. |
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| se7en |
| 12/09/01 at 03:24:43 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, I could *never* understand parents who make their children suffer through so much because they refuse to let them marry someone outside their ethnic lines. Here's my question to those parents: do you think your grandchildren, born and raised in the United States, are going to marry someone from their ethnic background? Heck no.. ethnic lines will be totally blurred in a few generations amongst Muslims in the US. Is it really worth all the difficulty and hardship you put your children through to keep the bloodlines pure for one more generation ??? Anyway.. I know of too many situations like this and it kills me to see all the difficulty and hurt these ppl go through. May Allah make things easy for you and grant you patience and strength in this time. There are only a few things I've seen that help.. you can try to soften your parents to the idea by mentioning it wayyy before the actual person is discussed. For example.. "how would you feel about me marrying an arab girl?" The first time you mention the idea, they'll most likely bug out, but each time after that, with your discussion and the good points you make, they'll be less freaked out until maybe they'll come to accept it. Also.. soften up the other persons parents by showing them you appreciate their culture. If her parents are super Pakistani, bring some mithai to her house next time you see her. If his parents are super Arab, next time you see his mom and ask her for the recipe for maklooba. :) Little things like that show that you're not hostile to their culture. A situation that I know of.. the sister was desi, brother arab, and the parents were not open to the idea at all. The sister starts trying to learn urdu (for the first time in her life, as she was never interested in such things). The mother was really impressed, asked her why she was doing this.. she told her, he encouraged me to make the effort to know my culture better. This was like +10000 points in her mom's eyes. Their situation didn't work out for other reasons, mashaAllah, but that really was in the brothers favor. Something else that might work is getting older people, friends of your parents, to talk to them and try to convice them to change their minds about it. This works if they think that you're just too young and immature to know what's best for you. I dunno, that's the best I can give you bro :) I hope everything works out inshaAllah. take care :) wasalaamu alaykum. |
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| Anonymous |
| 12/09/01 at 23:16:41 |
| slm, Assuming that the problem stems from the families, I agree with everything se7en said and would just like to add one thing: Make dua' to Allah[swt].Sometimes, we encounter difficulties in our lives that overwhelm us and we run to this person or that person to solve our problems but the truth of the matter is that only Allah[swt] can help us. No one else can! I’ll tell you of a true story about a Pakistani brother and a Syrian sister. The brother was a friend of the sister’s brother. He used to come to their house and was very much welcomed by the family. The brother was religious but the sister was not very religious at that point. Yet they liked each and decided that they wanted to get married. So the brother approaches her father to request her hand in marriage. The father goes ballistic when he hears of the brother’s proposal; he goes so far as insulting the brother and his whole ethnic background and kicks him out of the house. Still the brother is serious about marrying the sister so he tries again with the help of some elderly acquaintances from the sister’s side. Again he’s rejected. Why?? Because he’s not Syrian or Arab and he’s not a doctor! The sister’s family being rich had great hopes for their daughter marrying into another rich and prominent family. The brother’s family was well off but not to the degree that would satisfy her family’s ambitions; his education also posed another problem; he had a bachelor’s degree in history and wanted to be a teacher, hardly a prestigious occupation in her family’s view. When all attempts failed, they decided to put their trust in Allah[swt] and make dua’ knowing that if it was meant to be , they would be together. The brother goes back to school to earn an M.D. The sister becomes religious and dons the hijab. After five years, the brother comes back and proposes again. This time, the father’s heart softens, he regrets rejecting him before and finally agrees to the marriage. The moral of the story? 1-Rely on Allah[swt] to make things happen. He’s Al-Qader and nothing happens without His permission. So instead of wasting our time turning to someone who doesn’t have the ability to help us, even if they wanted to, we should be turning to Allah [swt], complain to Him , and make dua’ with the conviction that He will answer our prayers. That’s His promise to us in the Qur'an and Allah [swt] never breaks His promise. 2-Allah[swt] knows the perfect timing to grant our wishes. The difficulty and pain that the brother and sister went through made them stronger and brought them even closer to their Lord and to each other. I cannot say that I have been in their shoes and it’s probably easier for me to lecture and say do this, do that. However, we have to believe in the promise of Allah [swt]. That’s our only hope. [color=green]"And your Lord says: "Call on Me, I will answer you." Qur'an (40 : 60)[/color] |
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| Ayla_A |
| 12/14/01 at 12:02:08 |
| [slm] I am in an intercultural relationship and I can tell you that yes Islam is the tie that will bind two families together. In my case that is not so easy to say since my parents are not muslims yet (insha'allah) I think some of the best things to do is that you can try to take the best things from both cultures and try to get rid of the worse things from each culture. You essentially have to either create a new culture all together or else choose to live one way or the other. It is amazing how it can be the little things that will cause the largest problems. For example, how one culture celebrates the Eids and holidays, somehow you have to find your own way of celebrating these things. There is so many different issues, types of foods you eat (mostly the way you prepare them) having a good mix between the two, how you act with the families..(ex. in my family we all visit in one room, where as my husband's family sometimes separates visiting) How you interact with your parents is usually different. My best suggestion is to form some sort of support group for yourself, talk to others in this type of relationship. I know that I belong to a couple of groups like this, and it has truly saved my marriage. The biggest thing is to figure out what is cultural behavior (much easier to understand once you know it is) and personal behavior, because how a person reacts to each is different. Well I have written a book [wlm] Ayla |
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| taueeya |
| 12/15/01 at 23:10:17 |
| Assalamu 'Alaikum, [quote]If her parents are super Pakistani, bring some mithai to her house next time you see her. [/quote] lol..........Man, this made me laugh to death. I really enjoyed it. Why are we Pakistanis so famous for everything? :)Anyways, I am curious, what are the other categories of Pakistanis other than being 'super Pakistani'? And which mithai should one take? p.s: I am not offended at all , neither do I mean to offend anybody else. Wassalam. |
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| ahmer |
| 12/25/01 at 10:06:18 |
| [slm] it's really awful to see the lives of good practicing young muslims torn apart by age old cultural values still masquerading in the name of islam. Just to narrate to you guyz of a really really great muslim convert friend of mine, who was turned down by a sister's family for not being "paki". They both are good muslims. My friend had the intention of doing it the correct Islamic way and sent some people with the proposal, but was rejected on "race grounds". I can't imagine how people who have lived in this country can think of doing this to their children!!! Everyday we get to hear such type of stories and there is either a disastrous end like 'running away' or the aspirations are buried in the ground forever. I really feel sorry for this good friend of mine, who is a true muslim, a lot lot better than many of us born muslims. but i cant' find any reason for this obstinacy of the parents involved. It was so sad when he told me, "where should i go for marriage, me old non muslim girlfriends?!!" and i had no answer, and surprisingly this happened again to him. I dont' have an answer to his question other than to feel helpless for thim. There is a whole lot more to his sad sad tale that will only sadden us all.. but no time to discuss:( I guess feeling sad on this situation does no good. If this can't change for better, it never will solve anything. This problem is not isolated to few paki families, but is present in arab or any other community too. I with my friend hear these stories everyday, so we have decided to do something about it rather than just sitting around and lamenting at this state of affairs. Insha'Allah i with my friends will be launching a sort of campaign to educate the parents on what islam says about marriage to separate it from culture. Insha'Allah it will be a carefully designed campaign so that it does not create an impression of "rebellion". May Allah help us..ameen. Read the following Hadith of the Prophet[saw], [color=green]"If there comes to you one with whose character and religious commitment you are pleased, then marry (your female relative under your guardianship) to him, for if you do not do so, there will be tribulation and great mischief on earth.” [/color] Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said.. Yes, if a woman chooses someone whose religious commitment and character are not pleasing, then he (the father or guardian) may prevent her from marrying him. But if she chooses a righteous man whose religious commitment and character are good, then he prevents her from marrying because of his own whims and desires, this is haraam, by Allaah, and it is a sin and a betrayal. If any mischief results from this, the sin will be on him (the father). [wlm] ahmer |
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| siddiqui |
| 01/02/02 at 03:52:09 |
| Asslam alikum Any one willing to give me the recipie of Maklooba :) sure sounds exotic |
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