Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view

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Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
bhaloo
11/29/01 at 00:44:04
slm

Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September
2001 issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal
"Ha-Mada Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments
below.

TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and
religion, Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of
the Hofesh V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli
scientists), led a heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox
Rabbis on the origins of life. Many of the spectators, including those
of a deeply religious stance, came away with the feeling that the
Rabbis had not done very well against their "Epicurean" counterparts.

The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a
one-on-one question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva
University. At one point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first
man was, to which the esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size
of an average man according to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr.
Lesser revealed that genetic research has revealed that the human race
coming from a single pair of parents is impossible in light of the
biological bottle-neck [a term for the strain put on successive
generations by inbreeding] they would have to travel through.

"Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected
institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human
population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly
unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view
of groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only
way man could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire
group of transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally
giants in the pre-nutrition age."

As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition
that took place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence
revealed that man would have been shrinking if he came from a single
human ancestor. His calculations revealed that in order for the human
race to reach the state it was in during the 17th century, the "Adam
and Eve" story would only be plausible if the first man was 90 feet
tall (which is fantastic to say the least). "There is no other way man
could traverse the genetic bottleneck" Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam
was the size of any other man according to the learned Rabbis of the
Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious absurdity to this myth."

[------ END EXCERPT ------]

This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they
crushed Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up
with genetic research that led them to calculate the size a first man
would have to be if the story was true. They came up with 90 feet.
Note that 1400 years before these learned men came to this conclusion,
the Prophet (SAW) said something similar:


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall (90 feet tall).
[snip]"


Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So for some
reason, the Prophet (SAW) thought that Adam was 90 feet tall when he
was created. It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life went
on. How did the Prophet (SAW) and his companions (RA) know about the
effect known as "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have
genetic exchanges that are too closely related?
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
taueeya
11/29/01 at 04:09:39
Wa'alaikum Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

      Jazaak Allahu khair br. bhaloo for posting this.

      Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adarn, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day.
  [Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6809]


Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam in his complete shape and form (directly), sixty cubits (about 30 meters) in height. When He created him, He said (to him), "Go and greet that group of angels sitting there, and listen what they will say in reply to you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your offspring." Adam (went and) said, 'As-Salamu alaikum (Peace be upon you).' They replied, 'AsSalamu-'Alaika wa Rahmatullah (Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you) So they increased 'Wa Rahmatullah' The Prophet added 'So whoever will enter Paradise, will be of the shape and form of Adam. Since then the creation of Adam's (offspring) (i.e. stature of human beings is being diminished continuously) to the present time."
   [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 74, Number 246].


Wassalam.








Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
abdul_Mutali
11/29/01 at 09:45:48
SubhanAllah!
When u read something like this u feel good.Allah has given us so much sighs and still so many ppl are unbeleivers.
May Allah Guide us all.
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
haaris
11/29/01 at 11:31:24
[quote]Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam [color=red]in His own image[/color] with His length of sixty cubits[/quote]

Really?  I thought anthropomorphism doesn't feature in Islam.  Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the hadith?  Can anyone enlighten me?
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
NewJehad
11/29/01 at 12:15:03
slm
the hadith is sahiso we except it. but the argument of the scientist does not make sense so i reject it. i cant even understand what he is on about? I the reason why i believe that Adam pbh was 60 cubes tall is cause of the Hadith, the argument of the scientist does not confirm it for me cause i didn't understand any of it.i think just cause some one says some thing that we agree with, does not mean much.
What would be confirmation would be some thing like a skeleton.

Haaris, anthapermophism does not appear in ISlam. English like Arabic, when you refer to some thing as belonging to you, it can mean a part of you or some thing that you own.
so when i say my pen, i am refering to a pen that belongs to me. when i refer to my leg, it can be one of the two that i am standing on, or it can be a leg of lamb that i buy from the shop.
i refer to the leg of lamb i buy from the shop as "my leg", cause it belongs to me.
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
bhaloo
11/29/01 at 22:05:48
slm

We had an atheist on this message board, that didn't believe Adam (a.s.) could have been this tall.  Now some non-Muslim scientist says that the only way man could have descended from a set of parents was if they were 90 feet tall, which matches the hadith, and shows further proofs and signs for those that doubt Islam.
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
AbdulBasir
11/30/01 at 01:59:23
[slm]
In regards to the hadith mentioned from the collection Muslim and anthropomorphism, we should be wary of the errors that can come about through translation. I cannot really comment with certainty because I neither have access to Arabic text at the present time nor have the qualifications in Arabic linguistics. Nevertheless, the "ih" suffix in Arabic on the word (in this case the word image) translates as [i]his[/i], not necessarily [i]His[/i], which in English we have to come to use when speaking about Allah SWT. To translate it automatically as "His image" rather than as "his image" is an liberty taken on by the translator that is influenced by the preconceived Judeo-Christian notion that Adam AS was created in the actual divine image of God, aoodhubillah.

So if one reads the text as "his image" rather than "His image", the meaning is different. So who is the "he"? Imam an-Nawawi commented on this hadith and said that the "he" is Adam AS, i.e Adam AS was created in the image of Adam AS. And this means that Allah created Adam AS as he actually is, that is, as an adult, in adult form. In other words, Adam AS was not created as a cell or embryo or fetus or even a child, which are all parts of every other human's development, which begins with the image of a cell and transforms physically into other different images over the course of time until it reaches full development as an adult. Adam AS did not go through these stages and was created from the start as an adult, in [i]his[/i] (own) image.

The aforementioned is my own sloppy recollection from Imam Anwar al-Awlaki's "Life of the Prophets" series, who comments on this subject.

And Allah knows best.
[slm]


Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
Learner
11/30/01 at 05:14:29
slm  :)

Jazakallah khair Brother Abdul Basir for the clarification. It was something that was bugging me a for a veeeeery long time.

wlm   :)
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
Mystic
11/30/01 at 05:15:28
[wlm]
The Quranic ayah supporting this view:
"We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance...) (Quran 12:12-14)

Some one please give a summarized overview of the above.

Maliha.

[wlm]
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
Saleema
11/30/01 at 05:21:10
[slm]

Mystic, that ayah is in referance to the *children* of Adam (A) and Eve (A), which is all of us--mankind.

[wlm]
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
haaris
11/30/01 at 05:44:15
[slm]

Subhana Allah, thank you Br. Abdul Basir for your explanation.  I was sure that it was down to the vagiaries of translation and your explanation was exactly what I needed.

Jazak Allah Khair.

[slm]
Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
taueeya
11/30/01 at 08:38:51
Assalamu 'Alaikum,

       I was reading Ahaadeeth from Sahih Bukhari and came across this wonderful hadeeth. Couldn't resist sharing this with u all!

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 416:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His Throne, "My Mercy overpowers My Anger." .


Wassalam.


Re: Adam (as) was 90 feet tall, science now supports this view
Mystic
11/30/01 at 09:11:56
[slm]
Jazakumu Allahu Khayran for the clarification points...
It makes sense now, the difference between the *children* of Adam (AS) and Adam (AS) himself...

Maliha :-)

[wlm]


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