congregational prayer

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congregational prayer
nehar
12/01/01 at 01:55:37
[slm]

I was just wondering if any1 can explain to me how to complete a prayer wen u join in from the middle.

[wlm]

Nehar
Re: congregational prayer
Anik
12/01/01 at 01:48:53
asalaamu alaikum,


as far as i do it,

I come in (walking), make intention, takbheer at whatever point they are, and get into position they are in (or wait to join the next one)

depending on if I made it for the sajda, I join on and make up the rakaats after the taslim... and yeah! asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.
Re: congregational prayer
nehar
12/01/01 at 01:55:18

[quote]
I come in (walking), make intention, takbheer at whatever point they are, and get into position they are in (or wait to join the next one)
[/quote]

[slm]

im still confused, i went to the uni mosque the other day and a sis sed its best i join in, so i did, but we were both unsure of how 2 end it.

we began from the 3rd rakahs, so wen we did tashahood, we were unsure if we shud do both salams or just the 1. we did the two, and then i made up another seperate 2.
I ended up praying the whole thing again cuz i was unsure.

also say if i began from the middle of a rakah wud i have 2 make up a full rakah or half a rakah

sorry if im not making sence

[wlm]

Nehar
Re: congregational prayer
Arsalan
12/01/01 at 02:40:11
[slm]

If you enter a rak'ah after rukoo', that means you have missed that particular rak'ah.  If you enter it before rukoo' (or during rukoo'), that means you have caught that particular rak'ah.

Having said that, suppose you enter a 4 rak'ah prayer while the imam is in the rukoo' of the 4th rak'ah.  You have missed the first 3 rak'ahs, but you have caught the 4th rak'ah.  

What do you do?

I think there are two opinions:

1. You consider the rak'ah in which you joined (actually the 4th rak'ah) to be *your* 1st rak'ah.  That means that when the imam sits down at the end of the 4th rak'ah and says salaam, you have only prayed 1 rak'ah.  You must get back up at that point, without saying the salaam, saying Allahu Akbar.  Yoiu are now beginning your 2nd rak'ah.  Complete your prayer now as you would normally.

2. You consider the rak'ah in which you joined (actually the 4th rak'ah) to be *your* 4th rak'ah as well.  However, when the imam says salaam, you must get back up saying Allahu Akbar, just like you would in the above opinion.  However, you are now beginning your 1st rak'ah!  The next one will be your 2nd rak'ah.  The next will be your 3rd and your LAST rak'ah (because in all, you would have then completed 4 rak'ahs), so you would say salaam after that rak'ah.

What is really the difference between the 2 opinions above?  Let me illustrate it this way:

1.  You join with the imam in the 4th rak'ah, right?  Now, you perform sujood with him, say the tashahhud with him, and then ...

get up
recite fatihah
recite another surah (this is your 2nd rak'ah, so you must recite a surah after the fatihah)
do rukoo'
do sujood
sit for tashahhud (this is your 2nd rak'ah, so you must do tashahhud)

get up
recite fatihah
do rukoo' (this is your 3rd rak'ah, so you don't have to recite anything after the fatihah)
do sujood
(this is your 3rd rak'ah, so no tashahhud)

get up
recite fatihah
do rukoo' (this is your 4th rak'ah, so you don't have to recite anything after the fatihah)
do sujood
sit for tashahhud (this is your 4th rak'ah, so you must do tashahhud)
say the tasleem - your prayer is finished.

2.  You join with the imam in the 4th rak'ah.  Now, you perform sujood with him, say the tashahhud with him, and then ...

get up
recite fatihah
recite another surah (this is your 1st rak'ah, so you must recite something after the fatihah)
do rukoo'
do sujood
(no tashahhud, because this was your 1st rak'ah)

get up
recite fatihah
recite another surah (this is your 2nd rak'ah, so you must recite something after the fatihah)
do rukoo'
do sujood
sit for tashahhud (this is your 2nd rak'ah, so you must do tashahhud)

get up
recite fatihah
do rukoo' (this is your 3rd rak'ah, so you don't have to recite anything after the fatihah)
do sujood
sit for tashahhud (although this is your 3rd rak'ah, but remember, in total you have now finished 4 rak'ahs starting with what you prayed with the imam ... this is your LAST rak'ah, and thus you must do tashahhud)
say the tasleem - your prayer is finished


I am not sure which opinion is stronger, if any.  I personally follow the first opinion because that is what i was taught.  It also makes more sense to me personally, and I find it a lot easier than the second option.  

Wallahu a'lam.

Wassalamu alaikum.
Re: congregational prayer
abdul_Mutali
12/01/01 at 06:56:34
As salamu alaykum
"If you enter a rak'ah after rukoo', that means you have missed that particular rak'ah.  If you enter it before rukoo' (or during rukoo'), that means you have caught that particular rak'ah"

Can u please give the dalil for this akhi Arsalan.Cuz there is a hadith in bukhari:
Narrated Ubada bin As Samit
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha
in his prayer, his prayer is invalid.

So we dont get fatiha in ruku,therefore as far as I know one has to catch the rakat before going to ruku to get the rakat of prayer.
Allhau Alim.
Re: congregational prayer
Rashid
12/01/01 at 23:28:46
[slm]

no because the imam has already recited al-fatihah so his recitation counts for the whole jammah, so if you catch the ruku then you've joined that particular rakaat.  

[wlm]
Re: congregational prayer
taueeya
12/02/01 at 00:12:25
Assalamu 'Alaikum,

        [quote]So we dont get fatiha in ruku,therefore as far as I know one has to catch the rakat before going to ruku to get the rakat of prayer.
Allhau Alim.[/quote]

Catching up with imam or the congregation:

    Whoever joins a congregation, he should perform the opening takbir while standing and then move directly to the act that the congregation may be performing, for instance, if the congregation is prostrating one should perform the opening takbir and then join it in the prostration. However, such a person is not considered as having performed the rak'ah unless he performs the ruku' (bowing), even if he just bows and puts his hands on his knees, when the imam is finishing his ruku'.
    Abu Hurairah reports that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alehi wasallam said: "If you come to the salah and we are in sajdah, then make sajdah with us but do not count it [as a rak'ah]. And whoever 'catches' the ruku', he catches the salah." This is related by Abu Dawud, Ibn Khuzaimah in his Sahih, and by al-Hakim, who considers it sahih, in his Al-Mustadrak.


Wassalam.

Re: congregational prayer
abdul_Mutali
12/02/01 at 12:31:43
JazakAllah Khair for the information.But the hadith in bukhari is very clear.Anyway Allah knows best.
Re: congregational prayer
nehar
12/06/01 at 06:09:19
[quote]

That means that when the imam sits down at the end of the 4th rak'ah and says salaam, you have only prayed 1 rak'ah.  You must get back up at that point, without saying the salaam, saying Allahu Akbar.  

[/quote]

[slm]

jazak
i was told by sum1 at the mosque u do one salam to the right and then get up saying Allahu Akbar, is that wrong??

[wlm]


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