Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Sparrow |
| 12/04/01 at 10:54:40 |
| Hi everyone, Just some questions that have popped into my head as of late... 1) I've always admired people who have a strong faith. I try hard to believe but just don't feel it in my heart, and I if I think about it too much I just end up even more confused about God than I was before. Then I thought maybe I do believe but am just not recognizing it. What does having faith in God feel like? 2) For the reverts, how do you feel when the word "khafir" is used. In all my readings I've never heard it used in a positive, or even neutral, way. I always think, if I reverted, those "khafir" would be my loved ones, my mom and dad, sis and bros, everyone I've ever loved or cared about. How do you feel about your family now? Is there pressure to disassociate with them? 3) Just out of curiosity, if I reverted would I have to give up the course I'm taking to be a personal trainer? Would that career path not be an option for me anymore? Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to answer. Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| MuslimaKanadiyya |
| 12/04/01 at 13:47:43 |
| [slm] [quote] 1) What does having faith in God feel like?[/quote] I am not really sure how to answer this question, because I am convinced that every answer will be different, for Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) can guide each of us differently. Having said that, I knew I believed in God when I was overcome by the awesome beauty and organisation of nature. Even thinking about it makes my heart skip a little bit, and all I can say is, "Wow! Subhanallah!" This may not have the same effect on others as it does on me, but this is how I knew in my heart that God exists. [quote]2) For the reverts, how do you feel when the word "khafir" is used. [/quote] I think this depends on how it is used. I do not like it at all when muslims use this term as a denigration of others for some of the reasons that you mentioned. In Arabic, 'kafir' literally means 'someone who hides' meaning that he or she hides from his or herself the existence of the one and only God. This could describe an atheist or a polytheist (and in this way, much of Western society, although a polytheist is better described by the term 'mushrik,' "one who associates (another with God)" ), but the term 'kafir' does not describe the [i]ahl al-kitab[/i] ('people of the Book', i.e. believing Jews and Christians) who would never deny that there is only one God. The status of Islam in relation to these two faiths is that it came to correct the errors that slipped into both Judaism and Christianity over the years. The Qur'an does not call these groups kafir and, in fact, tells us that in their places of worship, God is praised: "Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure" (22:40). Depending on the beliefs of your family, they might not be kafir at all, but part of the [i]ahl al-kitab[/i]. The fact that Allah (swt) has recognised that there is some truth to the belief systems of [i]ahl al-kitab[/i] doesn't mean that they still shouldn't become Muslim. If you do become Muslim, in sha'a allah, da'wa begins at home :) [quote]How do you feel about your family now? Is there pressure to disassociate with them?[/quote] I still love and care for my family a great deal. I live with my sister, and my mother, in fact, is probably more important to me now than before I converted. Heaven, after all, is at the feet of our mothers. No-one has pressured me to stop seeing them, and I don't think I would even if that were the case unless my family members either rejected me (which, al hamdu lillah, they haven't) or they continuously pressured me to give up Islam (which hasn't happened either.) You can expect some shock and disapproval on their part, but in most of the cases I know of Western people reverting to Islam, their families have learned to be accepting of their choice even if they do not agree with it. As for the case of reverts from other cultures, I cannot say. [quote]3) Just out of curiosity, if I reverted would I have to give up the course I'm taking to be a personal trainer? Would that career path not be an option for me anymore? [/quote] I think it would be alright to become a personal trainer as long as you do not work with people of the opposite gender, and you dress appropriately (meaning none of those skin tight exercise outfits that seem so popular these days). :D [wlm] Leslie |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Saleema |
| 12/05/01 at 01:11:44 |
Kafir does not describe the ahl al-kitab ('people of the Book', i.e. believing Jews and Christians) Yes it does. The word itself does not have a derogatory connotation to it, but sometimes the way it is said gives just that impression. On controversial matters people tend to have a very "us vs. them" attitude and so the word kafir is used a lot as in "those kufars killed our muslim brother and sisters in Palestine," or "Ruler of all Kufar-President Bush (Tony Blair), is evil." Since the comments are hostile, it seems as if to be a Kaffir is something like saying F*** ***!!! But it's not. Non-Muslims is too long to type when one is lazy. so kafir, kuffar. Especially the dash is annoying, you have to stretch your finger all the way up there on the key board and its annoying especially if you have short fingers. :) I'm only kidding. Well, no, sometimes that is one of the reasons for me personally to use the word kafir. So anyway, people do use the word that way, I might have done it too i think, i can't remember. But that's no reason for you not convert if you realize that Islam is the truth, cuz you can be one of our better muslim sisters and *not* use the perfectly harmless word in a derogatory way. Who knows, you could be an inspiration to someone on that. Seriously, you know? Judge Islam not based on others, cuz you won't be following their possibly messed up way of life, you will be following the Quran and Sunnah. let me put the Kafir in a nutshell and without the arabic linguistics involved: kafirs are all those that are not Muslims. Simple as that. And it's wrong to make it out to be anymore than that, like using it as it's a curse word or something. You know like in Hebrew all non-jews are goyim? And sometimes Jews use that derogatorily depending on what it is they are saying, and sometimes they don't use it derogatorily but people get offended anyway because it *excludes* them. But all goyim means is "non-jews." It especially offends because it's an *alien* language, and anytime you are up against something alien you have predisposed prejudices that you dont even realize that you do. Many times when we are not very familiar with something then subconsciously we tend to view everything related to it in a negative light and take everything the wrong way; or if we had one bad experience with something, then the next time a similar situation comes up we tend to paint it (subconsciously) with the same paint brush as last times'. Exclusion has a negative connotation to it mostly and when we are excluded from a group we get *defensive* even if we don't want to be in that group in the first place... do you see what I mean? Practically anything can be said in a derogatory way, for instance, "look at those *blacks*," "look at those *whites*," "look at those *Mozlems*." You see my point? On the internet especially feelings and meanings are obscured because we can't see the other person and hence we can't determine by their body language if what they are saying is hostile, mean, nice or are they just faking it... etc, etc. Sometimes people also say things that they dont really mean if they are angry or sad, etc. [wlm] |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/05/01 at 01:24:13 |
| slm Yes, Saleema is right, kafirs are all non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews). There was a good post put it here by Abu Khaled here that addressed, I don't know where the link is, do you Se7en? Regarding this topic, here was a related question and answer with Dr. Muzzamil Siddiqi (former president of ISNA) http://www.islam-online.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=5812 Question: What is the correct understanding of the verses in the Holy Qur’an in Surah al-Ma’idah, giving particular attention to the ones pertaining to the non-Muslims. How are we to understand the ayah when Allah says: “To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.” (al-Ma’idah 5:48) I personally am having difficulty understanding the orthodox position on the status of the non-Muslims. It appears from this ayah that Allah has allowed other revealed religions to come into being to test who will be best in what He revealed to those people. Please explain. Answer: If you read this Ayah in its context and study the verses 5:44- 50 you will understand the meaning of this Ayah. Allah says that human beings should live by Allah’s rules in their lives. Those who do not govern their lives according to Allah’s rules they are Kafirs (non-believers) Fasiq (rebellious) and Zalim (wrong-doers). He mentioned that He gave the Taurat to the Children of Israel for their guidance but they did not follow its rules properly. He sent the Injil (Gospel) with Jesus -peace be upon him, but the people of Injil did not take care of it. Now He has sent the Qur’an. The basic points that this Ayah (5:48) gives are as follows: The Qur’an is the Final revelation of Allah. It contains basically the same message that was given before through other Prophets -peace be upon them all. It confirms whatever is true in previous scriptures and it is a confirmation of the prophecies told in those scriptures about the coming of Allah’s Final Prophet and Messenger Muhammad -peace be upon him. Allah’s Prophets and their revealed Books gave the message of Tawhid (i.e there is only one God and all worship should be directed to Him and Him alone.), although they differed in some laws and rules (shir’ah wa minhaj). The Qur’an is complete and comprehensive. Muslims should live by its message and should not follow any other incomplete and unauthentic message in which other people’s vain desires (ahwa’) have infiltrated. If Allah had willed He would have forced all people to accept the message of the Qur’an, but He has given them the freedom to choose by their own will. So you Muslims continue doing the good deeds and are good examples among the people. Your deeds must be better than others. Do not argue or dispute too much with others. You shall all return to God and He will make the final judgment between all of you. The Islamic position about non-Muslims is that they should recognize Allah’s Tawhid and Prophet Muhammad as Allah’s Final Prophet for them. They should accept Islam to live happily and successfully in this world and to be saved in the Hereafter. It is Muslims’ duty to give them this message clearly, but without any coercion or intolerance. If others accept this message it is good for them, but if they do not accept, Muslims should still treat them with kindness and gentleness and leave the final judgment to Allah. In our enthusiasm for Da’wah we should not be intolerant and aggressive towards others, but in our politeness and civility we should also not give up our mission and message. We should not be intimidated to become quiet and we should not feel shy to tell the truth. We must know that Islam is Allah’s way for salvation. Islamic message is unique, authentic and divine. Islam is for the whole world and all people are invited to accept this message. It is our duty to give this invitation of Allah in the most beautiful and effective manner. We should be the witnesses of Allah to the world by our words and our deeds to all human beings. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/05/01 at 01:40:24 |
| slm Regarding this point: I always think, if I reverted, those "khafir" would be my loved ones, my mom and dad, sis and bros, everyone I've ever loved or cared about. How do you feel about your family now? Is there pressure to disassociate with them? Here was another Q/A with Sheikh Munajjid related to this issue: Question: My wife's mother has in effect cut herself off from her daughter in recent times. Whilst there was some form of communication it was often quite turbulent and heated. My wife has tried a number of times to re-establish contact yet her mother refuses, quite stubbornly, to reply. We are both reverts and have often felt that our acceptance of the religion has played some part in her mother's negative attitude. I would be grateful if you could advise us on what me might possibly do to rectify this situation. Jazak Allahu Khairan Answer: Praise be to Allah, The reactions of non-muslim mothers towards their children's embracement of Islam varies. Some mothers are peaceful and passive considering this as a personal matter which does not affect the relationship between the mother and her son or daughter. In such cases more piety by the child towards his or her mother will make the mother admire and respect Islam. Other mothers adopts a more stubborn approach at the beginning but the mother finally gives in and accepts the new religion as a fact of life after she sees the child's determination and persistence which could lead the mother herself to embrace Islam. In the third case we find that some mothers are constantly stubborn to the extent that she might hurt and oppress her son or daughter. Usually such mothers are blindly prejudice because they consider that her son or daughter had gone astray by leaving the faith of his fathers and ancestors and she must do something to help go back to the right path (according to the mother). The following are three stories that took place at the time of the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, that involved three of the Sahaba (Companions of the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) which illustrates the reactions of their mothers after they embraced Islam: Story #1 On the authority of Asmaa' Bint Abi Bakr she said "My mother came to visit me one day. At that time she was still a polytheist and there was a pledge between the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, and Quraish (one of the great tribes in Arabia that lived in Mecca in the pre Islamic Period of Ignorance who used to enjoy great spiritual and financial powers). I requested the Prophet's , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, religious verdict and said: Oh Prophet of Allah, my mother came to visit me, seeking my help; should I keep a good relationship with her? Yes, keep a good relation with her said the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him:. Reported by Bukhari and Muslim, and this narration is listed in Sahih Muslim under # 1003. In another version narrated by Ahmad, on the authority of Asmaa' Bint Abi Bakr she said " My mother came to visit me when she was still a polytheist and she was living amongst Quraish. She was desirous, meaning in need, so I asked the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, and said: Oh Prophet of Allah my mother came to me and she is a polytheist and she needs help. Should I keep a good relationship with her? He said yes maintain a good relationship with her. Story #2 On the authority of Abu-Huraira, who said: I used to call my mother to Islam when she was still a polytheist. One day, while I was calling her she mentioned something about the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, that I detested. So I went to see the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, while crying and told him: I used to call my mother to Islam and she would refuse. I called her today and she mentioned something about you that I detested. Please invoke the blessings and guidance of Allah on her. Then the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, said: O Great Allah guide the mother of Abu-Huraira. So I left full of hope because of the Prophet's supplication for my mother. When I reached home I found that the door was partially closed. My mother heard my footsteps and said: Stay still Abu-Huraira, then I heard the water running; he added my mother performed body ablution, put on her cloths and hurriedly opened the door without her head-cover and said: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad, Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, is the Messenger of Allah". I went back to the Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, crying of joy and told him: I am bringing you good news; Allah answered your prayers and guided the mother of Abu-Huraira. The Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, praised and glorified Allah and said: this is good. I said: Oh Messenger of Allah, pray to Allah to make me and my mother beloved by Allah's believing slaves and make us love them. The Prophet , Peace and Blessings be Upon Him, said: Oh Allah, make this little slave of Yours and his mother (meaning Abu-Huraira and his mother) become beloved by your believing slaves and make the believers love them. Ever since, there was not a believer who heard of me, even without seeing me, that did not love me. Reported by Muslim in Sahih Muslim (Muslim Authentic volumes) under # 2491. Story # 3 On the authority of Saa'd (Ibn Abi Waqas May Allah be pleased with him) who said that verses of the Qur'an revealed his story. He said Um Saa'd (his mother) swore not to talk to him ever nor eat or drink until he renounces Islam. She said: You claim that Allah commanded you to obey your parents. I am your mother and I order you to do this ( to renounce Islam). He said: She stayed with nothing to eat or drink for three days until she fainted because of strain. Then one of her other sons named Umarah gave her water to drink. And she started to imprecate against Saa'd, then Allah revealed this verse in the Qur'an, which translates to the meaning of {And We have enjoined on man to be good and dutiful to his parents; but if they strive to make you join with Me (in worship) anything (as a partner) of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return and I shall tell you what you used to do} Verse 29:8 - Surah 29, Al Ankabut. This Hadith is narrated by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad and in Sahih Muslim in his Sahih under # 1748. Also, Allah revealed another verse in the Qur'an, which translates to: "But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that if which you have no knowledge, then obey them not; but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do"( 31:15 - Surah Luqman). Based on the above stories one can determine how to deal with a non believing mother and can draw the following significant conclusions: The importance of good presentation of Islam to the non believing mother and to try to kindly persuade her and to strive to convince her as Abu Huraira did (story # 1) Continue to do good to the non believing mother and to remember that her disbelief does not justify disobedience by the son or daughter and that doing her good does not contradict with your innocence of her as a non believer, on the contrary as it is stated in Verse 31:15 above, Allah has commanded us to treat the non believing parents kindly even if they strive to make their child a polytheist because of their rights as parents hoping that they will embrace Islam. Continue to sincerely pray and supplicate for the non believing mother hoping that Allah may guide her, as evident in Abu Huraira's story (story #2). The divine guidance of Allah may come after continuous strive by the child and strong objection of the mother as in Abu Huraira's story, therefore the son should never surrender or give up but should continue to pray and supplicate for the non believing mother. Regardless of how hard does the non believing mother strive to make the son renounces Islam, and the pressure she will exercise against her son such as refusing to eat or invoking upon him , the son should never surrender or give in nor should he retrocede away from the righteous path as one of the Sahaba said to his non believing mother in a similar situation: :If you had one hundred (100) souls and it all left your body one after the other I will never give up my religion (Islam)". It seems that the mother in question deliberately oppresses her daughter through estrangement which makes her emotional torn but that should never weaken the muslim or shake his faith and belief in his religion. There is no objection to make the non believing mother understand that you are not going to retrocede , however she (the mother) can kindly ask for anything and she will be immediately answered to it except for giving up this religion. We ask Allah to quickly guide her to the righteous path and give you patience to call her to Islam and lead you to the righteous and correct way. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| M.F. |
| 12/05/01 at 05:52:31 |
| The question of Kafir being all non-Mulims or everyone except jews and Christians is beyond my understanding and knowledge. However, if it means all non-Muslims, then what does "Those who disbelieved from the people of the book"? Inna alladheena kafaru min ahlil kitaabi.... (surat al bayyinah). So, for the first question, it's a completely personal thing, but for me, it's a feeling of certainty. Certainty that Allah is there, that the things in this world will pass and that there's something better after it, and that those who commit horrible acts in this world will get their due. For example, I know that it's highly unlikely that Ariel Sharon will ever actually be judged and emprisoned or punished, but I'm comforted by the thought that Allah will give him what he deserves. Just as an example. I know it's not really deep or anything but it's a great comfort to have that certainty. It also helps me to know for certain that this life, no matter how hard it gets, will only seem like a matter of hours in the next life, and so if you put it into perspective, if we're patient for that matter of hours, then Allah will reward us. For the second question, although I'm not a revert myself, my parents and my sister and I are the only Muslims in our family. It scares me to think that the rest of them are considered kafir, and it also scares me that they're not even curious to learn about Islam. We're not close to them or anything, so it's not like my loved ones are considered kafir. That I'm sure would be very difficult. I can't imagine what my father feels about his mother. Especially cause whenever he tries to tell her anything spiritual that moved him or explain anything about Islam, she just glazes over, it's like Allah said, there's a covering over their vision. You can actually see her eyes glaze over. Anyway, I think I've said enough! P.S. I've always thought the word smogasborg was interesting. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Mona |
| 12/05/01 at 11:58:32 |
| assalamu alaikum, Sparrow, I am glad you are asking these questions. [quote]What does having faith in God feel like? [/quote] Everyone is different I think. Although born into the religion, and my belief in Allah (swt) was always there, I had so many questions that it [i]felt[/i] that my faith was waivering at times. This was very frightening and unsettling. My mother has always had strong faith especially during the difficult times -may Allah bless her, and to me, she was a guiding force and source of inspiration. Gradually, I experienced positive changes and became less insecure. I started believing that everything had a purpose and a wisdom behind it, although the cause-effect relationship was not always linear nor legible. I began to realize how deficient my human mind is; requiring a clear and simple answer to everything when everything is too complex and sophisticated. I think when one believes in God, one admits how much s/he is bewildered and amazed by His magnificence, and in effect professes his/her gratitude and need towards Him. Although it may appear to you that every believing wo/man has instant and easy answers to everything and may give a façade of tranquility and serenity, no one can claim that their faith has not been 'tested' or won't be put to test in the future. It is the patience, persistence and determination of strong believers through trials (of good and bad) that show them more than anyone else how truly they believe in Allah, swt. I think Allah (swt) truly knows who believes and who does not and in no need of a solid proof. It is us who sometimes take things for granted, and our own knowledge of our [i]eeman[/i] [belief] lapses. [quote]2) For the reverts, how do you feel when the word "khafir" is used...[/quote] Since I am not a revert, I won't be very helpful in providing an answer this question. My general feeling towards some of the answers given so far, is dismay at the oversimplification of the meaning of term 'kafir' and its use towards ahl al-kitaab. Although I agree with the literal meaning of the word being 'one who hides', it is not so thoughtful- to say the least- to use the term indescriminately and so liberally towards all who, as far as we know, have not professed Islam as their religion. Subhana Allah, who are we to judge here who is 'kafir' or who the 'kuffar' are? Anyone who fully understands the full weight of the term should think twice before labelling someone or some group with it. Wouldn't that be arrogance on our side if we started lumping all non-muslims (whether believers or not) as 'kuffar'? Is this what we Muslims are here on earth to do; point fingers at others and be boastful of our 'status'? Everyone knows that 'kafir' carries a very negative connotation because 'kufr' comes from ingratitude towards Allah's blessings and earns the wrath of Allah[swt]. It is doubly hurtful -I think- that these opinions are coming from 2 moderators on this board who bear more responsibilities and are expected to tackle things with more insight and wisdom. Insha'Allah this is only an oversight, because in the past they have been very guarded in their replies. Dr. Siddiqui's reply is very good, and no where in it you'll find that he is saying outright that all non-muslims are kuffar. He really stresses the importance of treating others with sensitivity and sensibility. The previous discussion on the topic (which includes br. Abu-Khaled's thesis) can be found in this [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=madrasa&action=display&num=3911]thread[/url]. I think it also asserts the proper meaning of the term and qualifies its use. Very long, but worth reading. [quote]3) Just out of curiosity, if I reverted would I have to give up the course I'm taking to be a personal trainer? Would that career path not be an option for me anymore?[/quote] I'd consult someone knowledgeable about it. It may very will be that you'd have to restrict your clients to females only and have some provisions made about the place where you carry out your work, i.e., in a more private setting away from the eyes of intruders. However, don't let this be a major factor in your decision to revert. Careers 'evolve' and change according to the needs and situations of many people for reasons much less than spirituality. Insha'Allah you will be able to be a Muslim and still have fulfilling a life and career. I'd personally hire you, because I need to get in shape and shed some inches in preparation for a very important event in the near future, right Leslie?. :) Wassalam P.S. What in the world is a smorgasborg ?? Isn't this a kind a food?? |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/05/01 at 10:21:39 |
| slm I apologize if my words were not clearer and if I did not clearly post a response from a scholar to address this exact situation. [quote]Subhana Allah, who are we to judge here who is 'kafir' or who the 'kuffar' are? Anyone who fully understands the full weight of the term should think twice before labelling someone or some group with it. Wouldn't that be arrogance on our side if we started lumping all non-muslims (whether believers or not) as 'kuffar'? [/quote] Insha'Allah I hope I have misunderstood your words sister. Are you saying that there are non-Muslims today (I am not referring to the Christians and Jews before Islam) that are considered believers? [quote] Is this what we Muslims are here on earth to do; point fingers at others and be boastful of our 'status'? [/quote] No, that is why I posted Dr. Siddiqi's response to address how we should deal with non-Muslims. [quote] The previous discussion on the topic (which includes br. Abu-Khaled's thesis) can be found in this thread. I think it also asserts the proper meaning of the term and qualifies its use. Very long, but worth reading. [/quote] That was the article I was referring to, jazak Allah khairen. This is from the link you posted in Abu Khaled's post, his words: [quote] [i] Rather, kaffir is simply an adjective used to describe one who is not Muslim. There is no controversy about this. Whosoever is not Muslim is kaffir. It refers to their aqeedah [belief]. [/i] [/quote] This was also mentioned: [quote] Imam Nawawi notes: "Someone who does not believe that whoever follows another religion besides Islam is an unbeliever (like Christians), or doubts that such a person is an unbeliever, or considers their sect to be valid, is himself an unbeliever (kafir) even if he manifests Islam and believes in it" (Rawda al-talibin, 10.70). This is not only the position of the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence represented by Nawawi, but is also the recorded position of all three other Sunni schools: Hanafi (Ibn 'Abidin: Radd al-muhtar 3.287), Maliki (al-Dardir: al-Sharh al-saghir, 4.435), and Hanbali (al-Bahuti: Kashshaf al-qina', 6.170). [/quote] --------------- Br. Abu Khaled also said: [quote] Kaffir literally means *one who conceals,* and also, in classical arabic kuffar is the words for farmers, which is a usage employed in Al-Qur'an Al-Kareem. However, what we seek is not the lughawi [linguistic] meaning, but the shari'i one. The next point is very important, for we see it transgressed all too often. And it is unbecoming. Our behaviour is unaffected by the orthodox classification into Muslim vs kaffir. For whether one is kaffir by rejection, or ignorance, our attitide is STILL determined towards them by the Shar'iah [/quote] Earlier in the same thread, Sheikh Munajjid's opinion was given as well. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| BrKhalid |
| 12/05/01 at 12:29:58 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]1) I've always admired people who have a strong faith. I try hard to believe but just don't feel it in my heart, and I if I think about it too much I just end up even more confused about God than I was before. Then I thought maybe I do believe but am just not recognizing it. What does having faith in God feel like?[/quote] Interesting question. As I was trying to think of a reply the hadith in which Jibrail(as) [The Angel Gabriel] asked our Prophet [saw] three questions came to mind. One of these questions was what is Iman [Faith] I've pulled out the relevant bit of the hadith below: [color=Blue]He (the inquirer) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth.[/color] Now I'm going to really oversimplify here so if anyone thinks I've said anything wrong, by all means feel free to correct me. There are some people who believe in all of the above sincerely and aim to live life according to their faith. There are some people who believe in all of the above sincerely but don't live according to their faith. There are some people who don't believe in all of the above. I would suggest that all human beings fall in to one of the above categories but Allah knows best. But back to the original question of what exactly does faith feel like. From a personal viewpoint my faith gives me a purpose and a reason for my existence and my life. The best way I've had explained to me is the analogy of a person on a journey. A person with faith knows full well where they started off from and they know full well where they are going to. Subsequently, they know why they are on this journey and what they have to do to reach their destination. Someone without faith is like the person who is travelling but can't remember where they got on and have no idea where they are going. To me my faith gives me my map so to speak of where to go and how I can get there. I would feel lost without my map. Of course as with all journeys one often gets lost on the way [as those who drive in London would testify ;-) ] but the ultimate destination is always known. Not sure if any of this helps Sparrow but there's a few of my thoughts ;-) Wasalaam Br Khalid |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Mona |
| 12/05/01 at 12:42:46 |
| assalamu alaikum [quote] Insha'Allah I hope I have misunderstood your words sister. Are you saying that there are non-Muslims today (I am not referring to the Christians and Jews before Islam) that are considered believers?[/quote] I don't really know the answer, nor am I qualified to answer it even if it were a concern of mine - which is not. I remember stating clearly that [quote] Although I agree with the literal meaning of the word being 'one who hides', it is not so thoughtful- to say the least- to use the term indescriminately and so liberally towards all who, as far as we know, have not professed Islam as their religion. [/quote] in that I am simply saying that we don't know and cannot judge what's in people's hearts. Khalaas, that is it. When people use the word kafir in an offensive sense or in an 'us-them' context, they should realize that it is unbecoming behaviour for Muslims because it alienates and disparages others. And, my supporting argument, is that if all non-Muslims are automatically denounced as kafirs, would it not be outright forbidden for Muslim men to marry from the "muhsanaat" from ahl-alkitaab?? I am sorry to diverge from the original post of Sparrow. Wassalam |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| MuslimaKanadiyya |
| 12/05/01 at 15:58:19 |
| [slm] [quote]I'd personally hire you, because I need to get in shape and shed some inches in preparation for a very important event in the near future, right Leslie?. :) [/quote] That's right! ;-D I could use a personal trainer too, but not for the same reason as Mona. I'm just too lazy to get to the gym on my own. :D [quote]P.S. What in the world is a smorgasborg ?? Isn't this a kind a food??[/quote] 'Smorgasbord' is the Swedish term for hors-d'oeuvres. It has come to mean, in English, a medley, miscellany, rich variety or selection. I grew up thinking that it meant a 'buffet'. Sparrow, if you have any other questions about what it is like to convert to Islam, you can instant message or e-mail me, if you'd like. :) [wlm] |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Rashid |
| 12/05/01 at 15:48:23 |
| [slm] Very interesting thread. [quote]What does having faith in God feel like?[/quote] From my personal experience, it's knowing that God is aware and closer to us than our jugular vein. Before coming to Islam, I was kaafir and did what kufaar do, i.e. anything I felt like. Now, I realize that all our actions carry consequences and we will have to answer for them on the day of judgement. So, having faith in God means following the Qur'an and Sunnah because as the Prophet [saw] said in his last sermon "if you follow these you will never go astray" Also, God has promised victory in this life and the next to those who believe and have faith. It's also why establishing the 5 daily prayers is so important, because through them we develop what's called Taqwa, being constantly aware of God. [quote] For the reverts, how do you feel when the word "khafir" is used[/quote] I feel sorry and sad for those who conceal and deny that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. Especially when they happen to be amongst my family. [quote]if I reverted, those "khafir" would be my loved ones, my mom and dad, sis and bros, everyone I've ever loved or cared about. How do you feel about your family now? Is there pressure to disassociate with them?[/quote] Before answering, I highly encourage you to change "if I reverted" to "I have reverted" Because Allah has many different ways of calling people to Islam and hopefully through you becoming Muslim your family will follow as has happened numerous times in the past. Unfortunately that is not my case as no one from among my family has chosen to submit. However, the feeling of love and concern is still there and in fact has increased since I accepted Islam, for example in my days of ignorance I used to fight with my sister and disobey my parents, but after Islam all that ceased because Allah has ordered us to obey him and then our parents, and to disobey our parents is a great sin (unless they call us to go against Islam, which hasn't happened to me thankfully). There is no pressure to disassociate with them. Quite the opposite actually, brothers always tell me they are making duah for them to accept Islam and they ask "how are they? are they Muslim yet?" [quote]if I reverted would I have to give up the course I'm taking to be a personal trainer? Would that career path not be an option for me anymore?[/quote] As previously suggested I would say this is OK as long as you are practicing this career among those of your gender and in private. For example you could become a team trainer, or one of those that are hired by regular folks. But as with all things in which we have limited knowledge, it's best to consult a scholar. Regarding the discussion of kaafir: The term ahl al-kitab refers to the people of the book, that book being the bible. Now let us be frank: how many practicing Jews and Christians do you personally know? I think I can count on both hands the number of practicing people of the book I've come across. My understanding of ahl al-kitab is that these are people who are to be found in synagogues and churches, obeying their respective books and prophets, and practicing their religion accordingly. As we look around us we can see that the vast majority of people are not ahl al-kitab. Is a person of the book one who has a Jewish or Christian name, but doesn't go to church, doesn't follow the bible (the bible tells them not to consume alcohol, not to eat pork, and that there is only one God) and is generally ignorant? My position towards them is I invite them to Islam and if they persist in their unbelief the final judgement rests with Allah. PS: From Webster's New World Dictionary- Smorgasbord: n. 1. a wide variety of appetizers, cheeses, meats, etc. seved buffet style. 2. a restaurant serving these. ;-) [wlm] |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/06/01 at 01:43:20 |
| slm [quote]And, my supporting argument, is that if all non-Muslims are automatically denounced as kafirs, would it not be outright forbidden for Muslim men to marry from the "muhsanaat" from ahl-alkitaab?? I am sorry to diverge from the original post of Sparrow. [/quote] Dr. Siddiqi said: According to the Qur'an, it is permissible for a Muslim to marry a woman from the People of the Book. It is true that Allah has allowed us all good and pure things, but not all things that are permissible are good for all people, at all times. It is Halal to eat, but if you are not well then you should control your diet. Similarly, it is permissible to marry women from amongst the People of the Book, but if you are living in a non-Islamic society, then it is better for you not to do so. If there is a danger for you or your children to be affected by the religion of your wife, or to become less committed to your own religion then you should not marry such women at all. It is reported that the Righteous Caliph 'Umar -may Allah be pleased with him- forbade his governors to marry the women from amongst the People of the Book. When it was said to him, "Are you forbidding what Allah has allowed?" His answer was, "I am not making it Haram, but I do not allow my governor to do that." It is true that Christians and Jews are unbelievers, but the Qur'an has given some exemptions to Muslims in their relations with them. here was something interesting he also said: The titles "People of the Book" or "those who were given the Book" are descriptive in the sense that these people have a scripture that was originally given by Allah to their Prophets. The scripture in its totality is not authentic at this time, but it still contains some of the authentic teachings of Allah. The title is also honorable in as much as it is exhortative. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has addressed them with a good title in order to remind them of their duties and to invite them to Islam. This is a beautiful method of Qur'anic preaching. Even those who do wrong things are often addressed in the Qur'an with good names and titles, unless they show their arrogance and reject the message of God. If you read the Qur'an carefully, you will see that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala sometimes addressed the hypocrites with the expression "O you who believe!" The hypocrites, of course, were not true Believers, but they were addressed with this good expression to remind them that they were not doing what they were claiming by their own mouths. See for example the ayah, "O you who believe, why do you say that which you do not… (al-Saff 61:2) This ayah is not speaking about the good Believers. In another place Allah says: "O you who believe, what ails you that when it is said to |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| momineqbal |
| 12/06/01 at 02:26:23 |
| [slm], 'Kafir' is derived from the word 'kufr', which means to conceal or to reject. In Islamic terminology, 'Kafir' means one who conceals or rejects the truth of Islam and a person who rejects Islam is in English called a 'non-Muslim'. If non-Muslims are hurt - they should accept Islam. If any non-Muslim considers the word 'Kafir' i.e. 'non-Muslim' as an abuse, he may choose to accept Islam and then we will stop referring to him as or call him a kafir i.e. a non-Muslim. One interesting point I observed once while seeing an image in a news item, of Sikhs marchinig in procession after some sikh was mistaken as a muslim and killed in the afteremath of 9-11. They were holding banners which read 'We are not Muslims'. I thought what audacity! and prayed to Allah that may He (swt) guide them to the truth for that sentence is an enormity. If a muslim means the one who submits to the will of Allah, so kafir means one who rejects the will of Allah in one form or the other, sometimes knowingly, and sometimes due to lack of knowledge, this matter is as simple as that I would think. Why should we split hairs over it? Now dealing with them in hateful manner and being unjust with them is another matter and should be dealt with accordinigly. Sparrow: Here is an interesting story which may or may not click with you, but I am sharing it anyways: This is about how I learnt swimming: I started late (had no access to a swimming pool, nor have had any floods in my area which is how some of my cousins learnt swimming). So when I had first access to a swimming pool, I went into shallow water tried walking around taking a dip or two and sometimes trying to float. I did this for about a month without success, initially I was happy doing that, but eventually I got bored. Then someone gave me the idea of taking a tube filled with air around myself and then try and swim so I wont drown. This one was fun, and I could now go and test deeper waters and I remained content with it for quite sometime until one day the tube somehow slipped off and I almost started drowning until a friend held my hand and brought me to safety. I again went back to shallow waters. But I couldn't remain there but beinig disappointed at not learning how to swim while kids much younger than me were swimming so well. One day I decided to hold on to the ladder that goes down into the swimming pool and go and touch the deepest part of the swimming pool while holding on to the ladder. I did this once or twice and then a friend told me to try and leave the ladder for a bit and I after much hesitation followed his suggestion and to my surprise I was automatically pushed up by the water! I did this two or three times until I got some confidence and began to learn actual swimming. I don't know if it makes sense to you at all. But I think you should come to Islam and you will be pleasantly surprised inshaAllah as to what just making the shahadah could do for you. You will learn to swim in the vastness of Islam inshaAllah. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Mona |
| 12/06/01 at 06:33:29 |
| Assalamu alaikum, In regards to br. Arshad's latest reply, I'd rebuttle that still marriage to "suitable" women from ahl al-kitabe is in principle OK, even if it is not advisable in some cases. Those instances (i.e., when it is not advisable) are the exeption to a general rule of permissibility. Also, let us all realize that we are not experts on fiqh here. Cutting and pasting of previously posted online ijtihaads of scholars or learned individuals who have not been made aware of the particulars of current situations, is extrapolitive and certainly perilous. I would like to propose to direct all future discussions on this debate whether ahl al-kitab could be labelled as 'kafirs', to the original thread where the question erupted ([url]http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=madrasa&action=display&num=3911[/url]). It would be greatly appreciated if contributors to this particular thread focus on the issues raised by the first post by Sparrow, and address the 'emotional' repercussions of knowing one's family being called 'kafir', whether truly or untruly. Wassalam |
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| taueeya |
| 12/06/01 at 09:54:58 |
| Assalamu 'Alaikum, [quote]Now I'm going to really oversimplify here so if anyone thinks I've said anything wrong, by all means feel free to correct me. There are some people who believe in all of the above sincerely and aim to live life according to their faith. There are some people who believe in all of the above sincerely but don't live according to their faith. There are some people who don't believe in all of the above.[/quote] Akhi, I dont mean to contradict u, just learning from u. Dont u think that there shall be one more category of some people who believe in all of the above sincerely and not only aim but 'do' live according to their faith, or do u include these people in the same first category? Because, I think there is a big difference between aiming and practically doing. I include myself in the first of the three categories mentioned by u, but praise those people who not only aim but really 'do' live their lives accordingly, although, one gets to see such people very rarely. I know a few people here in my community, and I really wish, I could be like them (Ameen). Wassalam. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| BrKhalid |
| 12/06/01 at 10:22:08 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Dont u think that there shall be one more category of some people who believe in all of the above sincerely and not only aim but 'do' live according to their faith, or do u include these people in the same first category?[/quote] Agreed Faith is of no use without action supporting that faith. [color=Blue]Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures [98:7][/color] As we're on the subject of categories, I'd like to add one to the swimming analogy that Br Eqbal mentioned. Namely you can sink or swim but you could also find yourself treading water. ;-) |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| Sparrow |
| 12/09/01 at 22:35:57 |
| Wow, guys, thank you all for your thoughtful responses!! I have a lot to think about , so I hope everyone will forgive me if I don't respond right now. I want to print these out and read them again, and some time inside my own head trying to sort things out. Leslie, thanks...you may be hearing alot of questions from me! :) Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| solehah |
| 12/10/01 at 11:28:06 |
| Salaam I shall not even attempt to reply to other questions by Sparrow, in view of the heat they are already generating, except for the concerns Sparrow has with regards to rship with family after reverting. Islam is a religion of peace, love, mercy, respect, and above all humility. When we revert, our main reason must be because of our love for ALlah and His creation. The words of the Koran speak of loving our family, of respecting our elders, of negating hatred and violence, and above all, of the deepest humility about our origins. So how can a believer of Islam be someone who shuns his own mother just because she is not yet a receiver of ALlah's hidayah ? For is it not true that its not in our power to convert others, its in the Grace of ALlah ? After all, despite the Prophet PBUH's uncle refusal to embrace Islam right till the end, the Prophet PBUH showed nothing towards his uncle except love and respect. Of course, its good to note that his uncle respected and admired Islam and supported the Prophet PBUH efforts and beliefs. So, Sparrow, the clause is there. We all know about the other uncle who not only rejected Islam but persecuted Muslims and his own nephew. Wallahualam bissawab. |
| Re: A smorgasborg of questions |
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| humble_muslim |
| 12/10/01 at 11:52:46 |
| AA I remember a speech by Siraj Wahaj once, when he said that most muslims think of non-muslims as "KAFFAR", saying it in a VERY derogotary way i.e. most muslims DO use the term kaffar in a derogotary way. And then he told us about how he converted so many members of his own family and step family to Islam. His message seemed to be "why refer to non muslims in a derogotary way when you yourself have not given them the dawah yet?" |
| NS |
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