Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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bhaloo |
12/05/01 at 10:31:49 |
slm http://www.stratfor.com/home/0112032240.htm Pakistan's Chief Weakened by U.S.-India Defense Ties Summary As the United States and India forge a new defense relationship, Pakistan is realizing belatedly that Washington does not intend to rebuild strong military ties with Islamabad, despite Pakistan's assistance in the war on terrorism. Washington has already bluntly refused Pakistan's request for F-16 fighter jets and has not intervened in an Israeli offer to sell an airborne radar system to India. President Pervez Musharraf has staved off threats from Islamist militants and pro-Taliban forces in his own country. But if the United States does not deliver the military assistance Pakistan expected, nationalists within the armed forces could turn on Musharraf. Analysis Douglas Feith, the U.S. undersecretary of state for defense, arrived in India on Dec. 2 to discuss reinvigorating defense ties between Washington and New Delhi. The visit is part of a broader trend of security cooperation between India and the United States that Adm. Dennis Blair, commander-in-chief of the U.S. Pacific Command, referred to as "unprecedented in [their] bilateral history." With its ties to New Delhi growing again, Washington is balking at lending substantial military assistance to Pakistan, despite the fact that Islamabad made the difficult decision to support anti-terrorism efforts in Afghanistan. Washington bluntly refused Pakistan's request for F-16 fighter jets and has not intervened in a recently revived Israeli offer to sell India -- Pakistan's chief rival -- the Phalcon airborne early warning radar system. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf survived challenges from Islamist militants and pro-Taliban forces over his aiding U.S. coalition efforts. But he may face an even stronger challenge from nationalists within his own military if it appears his assistance to Washington has weakened Pakistan's strategic security. Washington treaded a very narrow path in getting support from both India and Pakistan for the coalition operations in Afghanistan. Pakistan was geographically and politically vital for military operations against the Taliban, but working with Islamabad threatened Washington's long-term goal of establishing tight security ties with New Delhi. With U.S. tactical goals in Afghanistan all but fulfilled, Washington is now turning back to its strategic interest in India. In focusing its attention on New Delhi, however, Washington may contribute to the destabilization of the Musharraf regime in Pakistan. Musharraf took a calculated risk in granting overflight rights to Washington and allowing it to base troops on Pakistani soil as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. But as the domestic threat from Taliban sympathizers subsides, Musharraf faces a new challenge from within his own military. Questions are already circulating in Islamabad as to the true benefits or losses Pakistan has incurred by supporting the anti-terrorism coalition, according to sources. From Pakistan's point of view, it is increasingly apparent that it has lost more than it gained by supporting U.S. operations in Afghanistan. The collapse of the Taliban leaves Afghanistan in the hands of a coalition of Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazaras. None of these groups are particularly fond of ethnic Pushtuns, who comprise the majority of the population on both sides of the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The victories of the Northern Alliance may further increase Russian influence in Afghanistan. That would be unnerving to Islamabad, as Russia and India have close military ties. Islamabad gambled that Washington would control the transition of power in Afghanistan so that much of the control would go to ethnic Pushtuns, who would be more amenable to Pakistan. The Musharraf regime also counted on receiving economic and military aid from the United States and Europe in return for cooperation in stemming the flow of Muslim militancy from Afghanistan. Although it did receive promises of economic aid, debt relief and loan rescheduling, the military assistance has been scarce. During his visit to Washington in November, Musharraf requested delivery of 28 F-16 fighters that Pakistan paid for in the 1980s. The U.S. response was a swift and unequivocal no. Washington cited a deal with former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in which Pakistan was reimbursed. An underlying reason for the refusal, however, is that the F-16 is considered Pakistan's chief delivery system for nuclear weapons, and neither Washington nor New Delhi wants to see Pakistan increase its nuclear capabilities. At the same time, Washington is actively courting New Delhi for closer security cooperation. Feith's visit follows others by Blair and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in November, a visit by Secretary of State Colin Powell in October and a November summit between U.S. President George W. Bush and Indian Prime Minister Atal Vajpayee. During his visit, Blair called for a "robust U.S.-India defense relationship of a kind unprecedented in [Washington's and New Delhi's] bilateral history." Meanwhile Washington is also giving tacit approval to Indian military improvements. In late November, Israel and India agreed to greater military cooperation on several issues, including the sale of at least one Phalcon airborne radar system to New Delhi. The deal originally was proposed in September 2000, after Washington dissuaded Israel from making a similar sale to China, but was stalled due to continued U.S. sanctions against India. These sanctions were dropped as part of Washington's anti-terrorism campaign, and U.S. officials have shown little overt concern about the renewed agreement. With Washington offering both overt and tacit military support to New Delhi without giving equal treatment to Islamabad, factions in Pakistan are concerned that Pakistan itself may be the loser in the U.S. war on terrorism. Musharraf's cautious support for U.S. operations in Afghanistan has won his country a potentially hostile neighbor on its northwest border, a militarily invigorated India to the southeast and little long-lasting strategic support from the United States. Musharraf successfully avoided a massive uprising in Pakistan after apparently turning on the Taliban, but he now faces the prospect of being viewed as little better than his predecessor, Sharif, who was considered both weak and a tool of the United States. In such situations, it is the nationalist forces in the military that take control -- the same way that Musharraf himself rose to power with the ouster of Sharif. Still, Musharraf remains much more popular -- and powerful -- than Sharif. But unless Washington changes course and boosts military ties with Islamabad, Musharraf will be forced to turn elsewhere to keep his hold on power. This could include seeking a popular mandate during the October 2002 general elections, though that is a long way off. Musharraf could also turn again to Kashmir, allowing tensions in the disputed region to rise and thus ensure his necessity as leader of the military and regime. Musharraf has been able to count on support from the secular military until now. That support may become less stable if the president cannot prove to his fellow generals that Pakistan is better off for aiding Washington than it would have been had it refused to intervene in the Taliban's destruction. |
NS |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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Rashid |
12/05/01 at 13:28:51 |
[slm] Such is the reward for traitors...will they ever learn? [wlm] |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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explorer |
12/07/01 at 18:01:08 |
What other option did Gen. Musharraff have? Face the US head-on and the subsequent complete destruction of Pakistan and 1,000s if not 10,000s of more muslims dead. He didn't make the decision himself but after exhausting meetings with his Corp Commanders. They did it to save Pakistan - live to fight another day. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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Anik |
12/07/01 at 18:43:39 |
asalaamu alaikum, I agree in some practical ways, yet it is true that this is a sellout. Here's one view that I have gathered , but don't necessarily share: Pakistan is not an Islamic State; Musharraf is not a religious leader, and thus doesn't have the responsibility for acting as a religious body. People like that will do what suits them. I am sure if those of us who criticize Pakistan's actions were living there, we would feel differently about being daisy-cuttered by standing up to the US. Sentencing a country to impending doom is very easy to say behind a computer screen, and the people who are really devoted to this criticism are already in the thick of the fight. Is Pakistan not by many means a modernizing secular, "Islamically-cultured" state? As well, pushing Pakistan into war means putting the entire world in threat by possible nuclear war... The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis now- do they want to bring this destrucction on to them? Many who criticize Pakistan should themselves go to Afghanistan if they can call people sell outs while watching from the sidelines... It is seen that every nation these days stands up for their own concerns... in fact, we blame Pakistan, but where was every other "muslim" nation for Afghanistan? Pakistan the administration perhaps disagreed with the Taliban's implementation of religion into law... we expect religious action out of a secular body... and people here are looking at the "real world"- the survival of a country, rather than ideal side-taking. PERSONAL NOTE: It is sad that muslims are becoming so dog-eat-dog... and every man for himself, but alas what can we do? This is what happens when we set up countries rather than an ummah. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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mujaahid |
12/08/01 at 13:00:29 |
Well all i have to say is this. If india now bombards pakistan, and pakistan is attacked, i personally dont care one bit. They abandoned the afghans, now they deserve all they get. As a muslim, i will never ever dream of helping pakistan after what they done. They are a sell out, and they are the laughing stock of the world. Explorer dont give us all this nonsense about pakistan would have been destroyed. The USA would NEVER have even dropped a single bomb on pakistan, it would have been a disaster for washington! All they would have done was impose more sanctions, and boycotts. Nothing more. Pakistan helped in the destruction of a khilafah state, and they helped in the killing of thousands of muslims in afghjanistan. Now Allah is gona gona punish paksitan. And pakistan, i get the strange feeling, are gona regret what they have done. They are the ultimate sell out. A disgrace to the ummah. And no muslim should feel a need to help them if/when they start to crumble. They will only get what they deserved. They betrayed the afghan muslims. So why now should i feel sympathy when they themselves suffer. They sided with the Kuffar against the Muslims, just think about how bad that sounds, the muslim nation of pakistan, formed 50 years ago for the muslims, helped destroy the only khilafah state!!! Now i pray they get a severe punishment from Allah for this. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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Hania |
12/08/01 at 14:33:58 |
slm I don't like to get into these discussions, they are extremely complex and no one in this world seems to be able to come up with a solution that keeps everyone universally happy. But I am sad that Pakistan supported US Military action. I'm also sad that Pakistan was forced to take Military action. If they refused, I don't see America shaking their hands, smiling, walking away and saying its okay we quite understand. But what I'm really sad about are Muslims in Afghanistan who are fighting, killing and spreading bloodshed among themselves. Shatan has really be amoungst our brothers. H. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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explorer |
12/08/01 at 19:10:36 |
[slm] [i]Well all i have to say is this. If india now bombards pakistan, and pakistan is attacked, i personally dont care one bit. They abandoned the afghans, now they deserve all they get.[/i] Who in your opinion exactly abandonded the afghans? The pakistani people or leadership? If India attacks pakistan, the people will suffer the most, not the military heirachy - is that what you want? Pakistani kashmir to fall under indian rule? If you've spoken to people from pakistan and watched the countless demonstrations, one can easily deduce the pakistani peoples support and sympathy is with the afghan people, not the US. The pakistani public even tried to storm Jacobabad air base in which is currently under US control housing marines. What does this tell you about where loyalty lies? Since you 'don't care one bit' about india attacking pakistan then I assume you also don't care one bit if Israel attacks arab nations, US bombs Iraq and other muslim countires since not a single muslim nation came to Afghanistan's aid. Pakistan isn't the common demoninator here, the entire ummah is - muslim arab, african, asian nations, the whole lot. [i]Explorer dont give us all this nonsense about pakistan would have been destroyed. The USA would NEVER have even dropped a single bomb on pakistan, it would have been a disaster for washington! All they would have done was impose more sanctions, and boycotts. Nothing more. [/i] I believe the Pakistan Army commanders are in a far more qualified and in a better position to determine the military scenario they face, not laymen over the net. Pakistan was facing impending disaster if they didn't side with the US whether through fullscale war or boycotts. Sad as it may seem, the hard truth is every nation cares for itself. Pakistan put its interests and survival first just as every other nation would. Everyone knows how devious uncle sam is. Do you think the USA wouldn't drop bombs on Pakistan candestinely? How about not supporting India to launch a full-scale offensive against Pakistan and aid them with intelligence and air strikes, the origin of which the pakistan air force cannot possibly determine, nor prove? India would relish the opportunity to attack pakistan with US support. Just days before the airstrikes on afghanistan, the indian military increased border shelling of pakistani positions, including in new sectors which don't normally witness artillery duels. [i]They betrayed the afghan muslims. So why now should i feel sympathy when they themselves suffer. They sided with the Kuffar against the Muslims, just think about how bad that sounds, the muslim nation of pakistan, formed 50 years ago for the muslims, helped destroy the only khilafah state!!! Now i pray they get a severe punishment from Allah for this.[/i] This is disgraceful. How can a muslim possibly say something like this, let alone during the month of Ramadan? You pray that Pakistan gets punishment? All 130+ million muslims? Or is your anger vented at the military heirachy? Are you also praying that the rest of the muslim world, who failed to help afghanistan, also get punishment? [wlm] |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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maryam786 |
12/08/01 at 19:58:07 |
salams personaly i think that the gov't of pakistan was in a tight situation either way. insha'Allah we need to be really careful about condemning fellow muslims without completely understanding the situation.. this is what brings us down. m. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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Saleema |
12/08/01 at 21:11:48 |
All they would have done was impose more sanctions, and boycotts. Nothing more. What world are you living in where sanctions don't have any impact, that to be fearful of such things is nothing? Hello, do you not know what happened to Iraq? I pray that Allah protects Pakistan, Afghanistan and all of the Muslim world. Ameen. Do you know Mujahid when was the first time the Muslims were boycotted? Sanctions were put on them? Do you? In the early days of Islam, before the Muslims left for Madina...I don't want to tell you what happened there and what the Muslims including our beloved Prophet went through because I will start crying. Sactions kill the *spirit* first before they kill you. Sanctions and embargos are a big deal, the kill the soul of the entire community. I find your statement very offensive. Can you say that an Iraqi mother whose child just died from the effects of sanctions that sanctions and boycotts are just that and "nothing more?" Saddam was a fool to think he could stand up to the U.S., look what misery he has cuased his people... [wlm] |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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Anik |
12/09/01 at 00:10:45 |
asalamu alaikum, Guys , guys, guys... Cool out Bottom line: we all sold out in one way or another since none of us, I can safely say, went down to help those muslims, whether it be physically, medically, etc. Many of us still reside in countries that attack innocent muslims. SO, let's stop trying to justify who's right and who's wrong, and taking out anger on people, and realize that when we point a finger... (that's right,) we have 3 pointing back... simple..... Whoever said that stupid bickering amongst the ummah divides it was right... let's work on ourselves before we work on another. Implement Islam properly before we start to criticize... and realize that the world is faaaaaaaar too complex to be making blanket statements about countries and peoples. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
Re: Pakistan Learns the Price of Whoredom |
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se7en |
12/09/01 at 02:22:28 |
as salaamu alaykum, [quote]Whoever said that stupid bickering amongst the ummah divides it was right... let's work on ourselves before we work on another. [/quote] I agree with you there brother Abdullah. I'ma lock this thread inshaAllah. |
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